Thanks Ess!
That's very helpful! Have you been told yet today that you are wonderful???
Well, you are wonderful! :)
Tammy
This is from Wikipedia. Hope it helps. ess
Oligoclonal bands are also found in:
* Multiple sclerosis
* Devic's disease
* Systemic lupus erythematosus
* Neurosarcoidosis
* SSPE
* Subarachnoid haemorrhage
* Syphilis
* CNS Lymphoma
Hi
I believe that Soonermom asked this question before, but what other diseases can O-bands be present in??
I think that is just as important too, because an LP with O-bands doesn't only point towards MS, right?
Thanks
Tammy
Thank you again for a wonderful explanation!!
Of all things, your write-up has given me even more confidence in my neuro.
As you know, my LP came out completely "normal" with no O-bands, no elevated protein. My neuro ordered it as soon as my brain MRI came back abnormal. My office exams are all normal, so he was looking for that extra piece of "evidence".
I've had all the EVPs, EMG/NCV, vision field tests, VNG and everything is still normal.
A recent repeat brain MRI, 14 months after my initial one in Feb 2007, is stable. I still have that large (1.5 cm x 1.0 cm) periventricular lesion and 2 "punctate" ones.
When my neuro got the LP results, he stated that the LP could be "normal" early in the MS disease. As you stated, it's supporting evidence, not evidence that will "break the deal".
He is still following me and sees me every 2-3 months. Even though my only abnormal test has been the brain MRI (which has been stable), he has not ruled out MS as my demyelination can't be explained by any other cause as of yet. He has been persistent in looking for answers. I guess I'm an "atypical" patient as well.
My thoughts are with all of you that are also in limbo and can't get your neuros to keep looking for answers and follow you.
Take care, Pat :)
As someone who had a "negative LP", I found your post on O Bands extremely informative and easy to follow. I have read a lot online in the nine months since my journey begun, and this is the first time that I think I have really understood O Bands. Thanks!
Amy
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ahhhh,
I needed that!
Kathy
Yup, When you's been dismissed, you'd better march right on out that door!
1 in 25 is NOT = 0 !! That is 40 people in 1,000. (Heck, that's 4,000 people out of 100,000! Enough to populate a town!) 40 people who would be p*ssed off to know that they had been not given a chance. If her child had a 4% chance of having a serious disease, would she blow it off and go to Cancun?
In terms of "teaching" such people stuff, I always remember the saying:
"You can't enlighten the unconscious."
Q
Thanks for using your powers for good!
I called the lab that did my LP and asked if they used the new technique, and after much research, I was told that they do use Isoelectric Focusing, but she had no idea if that was what my doctor had ordered, that they have many tests that they do.
Do they continue to use less accurate methods when better ones are available?
My neuro thinks that since I have no O-bands, I have no MS.
She also sent me for the LP after saying that my brain lesions aren't "textbook". Could be she had her mind made up, and sent me for the older technique. Who knows.
I won't try to tell her I could be one in twenty-five; I know by now that when I've been dismissed, to move on.
Thanks again for all you do. I'm glad to see you posting more; hope that means you're doing better.
Kathy
Wowwiekahzowwiee!!! Superspongogulaous! That table is great. I will be tapping your skills later for my McDonald Criteria.
I made a correction in the comments on the page. If you go back into edit I think you can do it easily.
Now, a few tweaks and you can add my first part on what O-bands are to the top! Only you can add text to your HP. I've been trying to get people to write some up, but no one has sent me anything. HINT HINT !! You guys know who you are!
The I can ask MedHelp to also tack it into my outline where it belongs under DIAGNOSIS -> Testing -> LP. Eventually that outline in an expanded form will be the main page (I hope) and it will be easy to find useful articles
And actually Anyone can write something up. You should write it in your own words. These are for the benefit of the forum and a lot of you have great ideas!! The Health Pages are NOT my domain only. I hope everyone understands that.
This is great! I am so Jazzed! Quix
I'll PM you an address. But I also have heard that tables are difficult to do in HTML. I can present it to MedHelp and see if they can do it.
Quix
Oh boy, your going to have to knit me a beating, I didn't think that would post like that on the health pages - was playing around to see if it would allow the table - yikes. . .
I can save it as an image and post it on my pictures or something, but I won't be able to view it from the computer I'm at. We're blocked from about everything here.
-Shell
Ok -
I put the possible outcomes in a table - where can I send it so you can see it?
Can only post things as text here.
-shelly
Uhhh....table form???????
This is where I show I'm a technotard.
Would you do it and give me an example? :)
Quix
You Question: Was the part on How O-bands are tested for and interpreted clear enough to go ahead and put up??
Yes, it's good to go up. You've got: definition of O-Bands, various testing techniques, possible outcomes (ref: band or no bands) anything additional to that, is just icing!
I will read it again for flow and order, but I think it's good. I'm thinking you can put the possible outcome examples in table form (your #1 - 4's), that way it would break up the text a little. It's super!
Thank you again, Mama Q,
-SL
The article seems quite clear . . . so clear, it gave us all something new to ponder :0
Thank you for all you do.
Sherry
I meant to add that all of the evidence, symptoms, signs, MRI, LP, VEP are looked at together. The only part that can make the diagnosis ALONE is the history and physical over time.
I'm trying to get a diagnostic page up soon on the Health Pages.
Quix
If the neurologist is looking for more evidence pointing toward MS they will request an LP. You can't rule MS in or out SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF THE LP. But it certainly can act as supporting evidence. Does this make sense?
Quix
I'm confused,
why is my neurologist suggesting I get an LP? when she says most likely it is ms? OHHHHHH ugggg,, I'm just not understanding????
So an LP can NOT rule in or out Ms right?
geeeeese Quix i'm so confused and dont know what to do:(
Wow! It seems that my info on the new technique for determining O-bands was the most exciting part of my post. That is very interesting. I think we all suspect that the technique is not necessarily in broad use.
But, I also really need input on the understandability and readability of the part that describes how they test for O-bands. Is it in good enough shape to just place up on the Health Pages?
Now: There were some great questions asked whose answers are for the next segment, but I'll go through them briefly first.
Sherry - Brain lesion, and an elevated IgG Index, along with suggestive symptoms and signs does suggest MS. In the McDonald Criteria the O-bands and the IgG Index are interchangeable piece of information.
ess - You make a huge important point. An LP is not a required part of the qork up for MS. Many people are rightly diagnosed with having one. So if it is not needed all the time, how in the heck can a neuro rule out MS if it is negative?????
Magoo - Great to see you back! Yes, your wife was diagnosed (as we thought she would be) AND WITHOUT AN LP AT ALL! Thet's the point I'm making.
Wonk - The O-bands seem to appear with successive bouts of inflammation. There are fewer O-bands (in general) earlier in the disease. As you acquire more you keep them life long. If someone is in remission, their O-band count will be the same. Steroids will not change this. Your other questions we should deal with on a thread devoted to them, not this one, so if you would post your dilemma in a new thread.
Slightly - The lab test report ideally will state the method they used to run it. If it doesn't, most lab results carry the name of the lab and the pnone number. You can call the lab supervisor and ask what specific test is used to detect O-bands.
LA - The LP is needed as a supportive test when there is not enough information from the history and physical (to which too little attention is paid!) and from the MRI evidence. It's role is supportive. It is not supposed to be used as a rule-in or rule-out test!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad you had these questions. I willtry to clear up these and any more I can think of plus any that more people come up with.
Again: Was the part on How O-bands are tested for and interpreted clear enough to go ahead and put up??
Quix, quizzically???
Thank you for taking the time to organize and write all of this down for us. I know this is all a "labor of love" for you, but we all appreciate you SO MUCH!!
I was wondering if it is possible for more O-banding in the CSF vs serum to occur in ANY other diseases or is it unique to MS?
thanks,
Stacey
If you have not had an LP should you? I was dx'd without one due to other MS symptoms.
I was very happy NOT to have one. But then if an neg LP does not rule out MS then I am wondering why go through it.
LA
Thanks for the info..there is a lot of neurologist, though, that try to throw out MS as a DX if the LP doesn't show o-banding which I think is wrong to do for the same reason you stated above. Especially when all labs are probably NOT doing things the new way. The funny thing is, you mentioned how protocol isn't followed all the time including the strength of the MRI machine. My last neuro didn't follow protocol because he kept sending me to a 0.7 tesla strength machine and it makes you wonder what else wasn't done right including the new standards for doing the LP, which mine was negative.
By the way, how would you go about finding out if they used the new or old method of doing the LP?
HAVE I TOLD YOU LATELY HOW WONDERFUL YOU ARE! WELL, YOU ARE!
THIS IS GREAT. CAN YOU ADD IT TO THE HEALTH PAGES. WE GET SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE 0-BANDS. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU GET YOUR LAST PART IN, YOU CAN DISCLAIMER IT AS WORK IN PROGRESS. . .
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS, IT'S SO HELPFUL AND INFORMATIVE.
SL