Raynaud's phenomenon in MS ( ?? )

[tot_teacher]

hey guys -

What's the likelihood that someone with MS would suffer w/ Raynaud's phenomenon.  I know it's common in many other autoimmune disorders .. but does anyone ( diagnosed with MS ) on this forum experience Raynaud's ?

- Alisa

[Deb61]

I have been diagnosed with Raynaud's by a rheumatologist years before my diagnosis with MS.  I noticed an air of skepticism when I told my neuro about the diagnosis--not sure if he agrees that I actually have this or the Raynaud's-like symptoms are due to MS.    

Interestingly enough, right after my diagnosis we talked my tongue going numb to the point that I can't talk after eating or drinking something cold, because I had just had a cold drink before I went to see him and couldn't talk with my sister.  He said that this had to do with the MS.

Deb

[tot_teacher]

Deb -

I've never noticed 'cold' causing Raynaud's type symptoms.  The strange thing is that I only experience it when I'm taking a shower.  The water is not too hot nor cold and I'm wondering if it's the temp change or the water pellets hitting my hands causing it.  I've recently starting getting goosebumps for no apparent reason ( usually from touch or I've also noticed them after I was my hands ).  I get the goosebumps on my forearms mostly, though I've seen them on my thighs as well.

Normal feeling hands enter the shower but within seconds they have turned bright red and seem to throb.  This seems to suggest a cardio-vascular response, don't you think ?  Just as quick as it started, as soon as my hands are out of the shower, they return to normal ( I do notice that the blood vessels in my hand are more prominent for a minute or two when I'm out of the shower, but the color is normal )

Does any of this fit Raynaud's if I don't seem to react to cold? or if my fingers/toes don't seem to stay cold?

Any suggestions would be great.

- Alisa
"Limboland ***** -- I want to go home!"

[Lulu54]

Alisa
From the Merck medical guide -
www.merck.com/mmpe/sec07/ch080/ch080g.html#sec07-ch080-ch080g-1726

Raynaud's syndrome is vasospasm of parts of the hand in response to cold or emotional stress, causing reversible discomfort and color changes (pallor, cyanosis, erythema, or a combination) in one or more digits. Occasionally, other acral parts (eg, nose, tongue) are affected. The disorder may be primary or secondary. Diagnosis is clinical; testing focuses on distinguishing primary from secondary disease. Treatment of uncomplicated cases includes avoidance of cold, biofeedback, smoking cessation, and, as needed, vasodilating Ca channel blockers (eg, nifedipine) or prazosin"

It reads pretty straight forward that it appears only in cold - maybe someone else know of heat causing it but it isn't listed there.  I hope that helps, Lulu

[Quixotic1]

Alisa - what you are describing is not Raynaud's Phenomenon.  It may be a very reactive sympathetic nervous system response to the warmth on your hands.

Isolated Raynaud's is actually pretty common in the population.  I have had it on and off since about 1987.  My MS appeared in 2004, so I am pretty sure they are unrelated.

There is no reason that any person with MS couldn't have it as an unrelated phenomenon.

Quix

[slightlybroken]

Here's one thing I found on Raynauds

"Raynaud's disease is a rare disorder of the blood vessels, usually in the fingers and toes. People with this disorder have attacks that cause the blood vessels to narrow. When this happens, blood can't get to the surface of the skin and the affected areas turn white and blue. When the blood flow returns, the skin turns red and throbs or tingles. In severe cases, loss of blood flow can cause sores or tissue death. Cold weather and stress can trigger attacks. Often the cause of Raynaud's is not known. People in colder climates are more likely to develop Raynaud's than people in warmer areas."

You are describing one part of Raynauds..." (Normal feeling hands enter the shower but within seconds they have turned bright red and seem to throb)"...but you don't seem to have a reaction to cold.

Most of what I've read about Raynauds have both because the cold causes the already narrowed blood vessels to constrict more...then the warm exposure causes the blood vessels to open more and the blood to rush in. That's why they turn bright red and throb. I've also read that sometimes the blood vessels are in a spasm causing the constriction.

I'm not sure if what your experiencing is Raynauds or not ...but it definitely points to a circulatory reason..and I would tell your doctor if it kept happening.

[tot_teacher]

Thanks all -

It's on my list to mention on Tuesday when I see my PCP.  No symptoms seem to fit any one disorder.  I'm now off to investigate whether you can have Optic Neuritis in either Scleroderma or Lupus.  I fit those symptoms as well.  I'm also not sure about visual disturbances in other autoimmune disorders.

Anyway,  Thanks so much for gathering info for me, I sooooo appreciate it.  You all are awesome.  I hope to gather enough info that I may also one day be more of help to others who post here.

Well, I'm off ..............

- Alisa

[meg321]

Hi,

I have had Reynauds for a few years, but i have probably has MS for a long time also. But  i have never connected the two, but i guess it could be related, but i have just started the MS search.   Reynauds is much worse in the cold weather, its ok when its warm.

hugs, meg

[LovelyLynn]

I have Raynaud's since 2004 and I was diagnosed with MS in 2003. I am 34 yrs old and never thought the 2 were connected. But Raynaud's is effected by cold weather, I can't hold anything cold. I need to wear gloves when shopping in the freezer section in the winter. I'm in Buffalo, NY (lol). Also the fatigue is my biggest issue I take 400mg of Provigil a day and 2640 mg of L-caratine a day.
Recently I have participated in Venus doppler study show that MS patients have abnormal Venus doppler of the neck area. I would to hear feed back and you can write to me direct at:la_rwt4e***@****

[Jaymee79]

I have Raynauld's Phemon and MS as well.  Raynauld's came around when I was 17, MS I was diagnosed with at 24, both conditions are thought you have occurred sooner than their diagnosis date, and my Neuro thoroughly believes my Raynauld's is directly linked to my MS.

[deborah0904]

I was dx'd w/Raynauds around 1995.  I also have problems talking after eating icecream, etc.  I wasn''t dx'd w/MS until November 2008 however; I apparently have had MS since a child.