Aa
Sleep Apnea anyone?
I have my sleep study last night. I do have sleep apnea but not obstructive like my husband. I just basically almost stop breathing. I take very short shallow breaths.
I have something called hypopnea.
My oxygen levels dip into the mid to low 80's. I never actually stop breathing though. I go back now to get a c-pap setting that is right for me. Oh fun.
LA dx'd MS 2008
I have something called hypopnea.
My oxygen levels dip into the mid to low 80's. I never actually stop breathing though. I go back now to get a c-pap setting that is right for me. Oh fun.
LA dx'd MS 2008
It is very possible to have both central sleep apnea and hypopnea, and I don't see why one couldn't have OSA at the same time.
Thank you Lulu,
I don't have the report back yet. I just had the test Tuesday night. I am going to start another thread for a pity party about this and some other things happening right now.
I don't have the report back yet. I just had the test Tuesday night. I am going to start another thread for a pity party about this and some other things happening right now.
LA, if you want to talk to the expert about this, check out Dr Park at the sleep disorders forum here on Medhelp- he is wonderful, and FREE. Be sure to mention your MS too - he is very interested in us and how we sleep.
I would have to pull my study numbers to tell you exactly what they found, but I do know I had one central apnea (brain forgot to tell the body to breathe) and the rest were pretty much positional apneas (translation - sleep in a different position than on my back!).
Good luck with finding the right CPAP for you - be sure and try them out before you accept one for your permanent use.
sleep well,
Lulu
I would have to pull my study numbers to tell you exactly what they found, but I do know I had one central apnea (brain forgot to tell the body to breathe) and the rest were pretty much positional apneas (translation - sleep in a different position than on my back!).
Good luck with finding the right CPAP for you - be sure and try them out before you accept one for your permanent use.
sleep well,
Lulu
here is what i recall. She told me I had episodes of apnea and hypopnea. That my sats dropped into the 80s. She said I did not have OSA like my husband. She has done his studies also.
She told me my doctor would have the results in a few days and she would schedual me for a study with the c-pap. So it there are only two kinds of apnea I am not sure where I fit in now.
Ugh. I hate being in wonder land!
LA
She told me my doctor would have the results in a few days and she would schedual me for a study with the c-pap. So it there are only two kinds of apnea I am not sure where I fit in now.
Ugh. I hate being in wonder land!
LA
Maybe the reason why Google has hypopnea come up as central sleep apnea is because the reason for the shallow breathing may be coming from the brain ("central" refers to brain involvement). However, "hypopnea" never really can be "apnea" because in "hypopnea" there is "reduced" air flow in but with "apnea" there is absolutely "no" air flow.
WAF
WAF
Thank you WAF,
The tech told me I had sleep apnea but not obstructive. She also said I had the shallow breathing (Hypopnea) i will have to wait for the results. I was still so sleepy I was having a difficult time putting everything she told me together.
she did say I need the c-pap. I would guess with o2 dropping so low that is not a question. When I google Hypopnea it keeps coming up central sleep apnea. So it is confusing.
The tech told me I had sleep apnea but not obstructive. She also said I had the shallow breathing (Hypopnea) i will have to wait for the results. I was still so sleepy I was having a difficult time putting everything she told me together.
she did say I need the c-pap. I would guess with o2 dropping so low that is not a question. When I google Hypopnea it keeps coming up central sleep apnea. So it is confusing.
One more thing, about the thick-neck image some MDs feel is a prerequisite for sleep apnea: I don't have it either!! Just as I didn't have the requisite headache for blood patch after spinal tap, I also don't have a thick neck for CPAP. My first sleep study didn't bring me the CPAP I so badly needed because the MD told me I didn't fit the CPAP body image (not sure he even looked at the report the tech prepared). On my second sleep study, the MD actually reviewed and interpreted the report with me - What a difference!! He knew I needed it because of both, my hypopnea and apnea.
I'd love for modern medicine to get out of the cookie-cutter mode it seems to be in. We don't all fit their academic prototypes (as those of us lingering in Limboland can well attest!).
WAF
I'd love for modern medicine to get out of the cookie-cutter mode it seems to be in. We don't all fit their academic prototypes (as those of us lingering in Limboland can well attest!).
WAF
Hi, again!
Yeah, low-to-mid-80's for O2 saturation is low - but it can go even lower. Mine went in the low 80s too. You can get a pulse oximeter just for peace of mind to use at home to check your O2 sats periodically. Some oximeters can record your O2 sats overnight but are much more costly.
Actually, there still are only two types of sleep apnea: Central (origin is in brain) or obstructive (airway collapse blocks airflow). Hypopnea is NOT a type of sleep apnea. But hypopnea may be a reason for needing CPAP. Again, hypopnea is just the medical term for shallow breathing. CPAP can help with hypopnea by increasing the amount of air flowing in. With hypopnea there is no actual cessation of breathing (apnea), just a reduced inspiration.
The air hunger felt after a day of shallow breathing without CPAP can cause much fatigue. When I take my afternoon nap, I look forward to the extra air my CPAP will provide (I never nap without it) as much as I do the actual sleep. Sometimes I feel like Mel Brooks in that hilarious "Spaceballs" film where he opens a can of "Periair" (takeoff on Perier) to snort the air inside it!!
One last word: I tried a lot of CPAP machines before buying one. Usually your insurance will have you "rent" them before buying. This way you not only find out what suits you best, but also you avoid having your DME provider pass off a lemon to you. If the machine makes strange noises or in any way seems defective, give it back and ask for another one - I know I did that and I'm glad I did!! My current machine is very, very quiet and has had no problems. I'm sure it was new and not rebuilt.
Generally speaking, I feel Respironics makes the best CPAP machines and ResMed makes the best CPAP masks.
One more thing: Make sure you get a humidifier. That is very important!!
When you start using your machine you will need to take scrupulous care of your teeth: I floss, brush, use mouthwash, and then a fluoride rinse at bedtime. Why is this necessary you ask? Because if you are a mouth breather (as I am) you risk ending up with many cavities otherwise. I found that out the hard way (much to my dentist's glee and profit). If a mouth breather, your mouth will dry out overnight causing dry teeth which surprisingly promotes bacterial growth and decay (I always thought it was warm and moist that the bacteria liked best). Be forewarned!! I had 7 cavities in my first year of CPAP (and I usually don't get cavities). A preventive approach is the best route!! I haven't had any more cavities with my new bedtime routine! A product called "Biotene" is supposed to promote moist mouth, but I found it only works short-term, so I use it just for naps.
WAF
Yeah, low-to-mid-80's for O2 saturation is low - but it can go even lower. Mine went in the low 80s too. You can get a pulse oximeter just for peace of mind to use at home to check your O2 sats periodically. Some oximeters can record your O2 sats overnight but are much more costly.
Actually, there still are only two types of sleep apnea: Central (origin is in brain) or obstructive (airway collapse blocks airflow). Hypopnea is NOT a type of sleep apnea. But hypopnea may be a reason for needing CPAP. Again, hypopnea is just the medical term for shallow breathing. CPAP can help with hypopnea by increasing the amount of air flowing in. With hypopnea there is no actual cessation of breathing (apnea), just a reduced inspiration.
The air hunger felt after a day of shallow breathing without CPAP can cause much fatigue. When I take my afternoon nap, I look forward to the extra air my CPAP will provide (I never nap without it) as much as I do the actual sleep. Sometimes I feel like Mel Brooks in that hilarious "Spaceballs" film where he opens a can of "Periair" (takeoff on Perier) to snort the air inside it!!
One last word: I tried a lot of CPAP machines before buying one. Usually your insurance will have you "rent" them before buying. This way you not only find out what suits you best, but also you avoid having your DME provider pass off a lemon to you. If the machine makes strange noises or in any way seems defective, give it back and ask for another one - I know I did that and I'm glad I did!! My current machine is very, very quiet and has had no problems. I'm sure it was new and not rebuilt.
Generally speaking, I feel Respironics makes the best CPAP machines and ResMed makes the best CPAP masks.
One more thing: Make sure you get a humidifier. That is very important!!
When you start using your machine you will need to take scrupulous care of your teeth: I floss, brush, use mouthwash, and then a fluoride rinse at bedtime. Why is this necessary you ask? Because if you are a mouth breather (as I am) you risk ending up with many cavities otherwise. I found that out the hard way (much to my dentist's glee and profit). If a mouth breather, your mouth will dry out overnight causing dry teeth which surprisingly promotes bacterial growth and decay (I always thought it was warm and moist that the bacteria liked best). Be forewarned!! I had 7 cavities in my first year of CPAP (and I usually don't get cavities). A preventive approach is the best route!! I haven't had any more cavities with my new bedtime routine! A product called "Biotene" is supposed to promote moist mouth, but I found it only works short-term, so I use it just for naps.
WAF
I was very fortunate, in that the sleep lab had a cancellation, so I went back for titration the next night, right after the first study. Can't recall my numbers well either, now.
The tech gave me the numbers but I was still sleepy and can't remember exatly what she said about how many times I woke up or had an event but it seems like it was around 10.
But I do remember the o2 levels because I thought WOW! No wonder I am waking up. I wake up at night thinking Oh I better breath!
I am never gasping for air but know I am not getting enough air. I will go back next week if there is an opening to be tested out on the c-pap. If not next week than the week after.
I hope it does not take long because it is a scary thing! I read as much as I could about it last night. I'd like to keep my brain cells working, all of them!
LA DX'd MS 2008
But I do remember the o2 levels because I thought WOW! No wonder I am waking up. I wake up at night thinking Oh I better breath!
I am never gasping for air but know I am not getting enough air. I will go back next week if there is an opening to be tested out on the c-pap. If not next week than the week after.
I hope it does not take long because it is a scary thing! I read as much as I could about it last night. I'd like to keep my brain cells working, all of them!
LA DX'd MS 2008
My girlfriend has sleep apnea. When they tested her for it, in the course of 3 hours, she stop breathing 27 times. Nineteen times for up to 10 seconds. Now she's on a CPAP machine when she sleeps.
Bob :)
Bob :)
They gave me a threshold number below which O2 level was considered a problem that needed addressed. Memory's not what it once was, but I'm thinking it was a high 80s number, and mine was maybe 84 or 85. I've no idea how low it can go, nor how often it typically does.
Large necks are a family trait -- oddly enough, on Mom's side, but she didn't get it. My weight undoubtedly contributes to the problem; I could stand to lose as much as 75 lbs. (For you UK folks, that's a bit over 5 stone! ;>D)
I also use a Respironics Remstar machine, but I don't have all the bells & whistles. Insurance got me what they would, I suppose; I've learned a lot about them since, & would ask for some of those features if I knew then what I know now. I use a Comfort Gel nasal mask. I'm trying to remember, but I think that's also a Respironics product.
Hose-noses, huh? I'll have to remember that one.
I also use a Respironics Remstar machine, but I don't have all the bells & whistles. Insurance got me what they would, I suppose; I've learned a lot about them since, & would ask for some of those features if I knew then what I know now. I use a Comfort Gel nasal mask. I'm trying to remember, but I think that's also a Respironics product.
Hose-noses, huh? I'll have to remember that one.
Wow thank you both for all of the advice!! It helps a great deal. I did not realize hypopnea was central sleep apnea but that would explain why when I looked it up I kept coming up with only two types.
I actually have some trouble with breathing durning the day too. I can tell I am breath too shallow. Hmmm............I supose that may need to be addressed also.
This is happening at the right time being I have already met my out of pocket for the year! My husband has obstructive sleep apnea but he is a big guy with a large neck. He is working on getting weight off.
I don't have a large neck although I read that many people with apnea are not over weight. I am over weight somewhat but don't carry a lot of it through my neck.
Anyway THANK YOU!!
LA DX'd MS 2008
I actually have some trouble with breathing durning the day too. I can tell I am breath too shallow. Hmmm............I supose that may need to be addressed also.
This is happening at the right time being I have already met my out of pocket for the year! My husband has obstructive sleep apnea but he is a big guy with a large neck. He is working on getting weight off.
I don't have a large neck although I read that many people with apnea are not over weight. I am over weight somewhat but don't carry a lot of it through my neck.
Anyway THANK YOU!!
LA DX'd MS 2008
Hi, hose-noses!
"Hypopnea" just means shallow breathing - not taking in enough air. I actually had more hypopnea than obstruction, though I had both. Some nights I am way worse than others - it is scary - feeling like I might not wake up. Nothing "peaceful" about it!
Trouble with nighttime breathing caused by brain's reduced ability to get the message out has been found in MS and . . . ALS.
The following is a very good website for sleep apnea support and questions where other hose-noses hang out and share their experiences.
http://www.apneasupport.org/index.php
To LATW I recommend getting a CPAP with a memory card (so you can see how you are doing without having to pay for another expensive sleep titration study). The card can store your data for months and then it can be printed out in great detail.
Also, it's best to have a machine that will adjust its pressures to your changing needs. My pressure can go anywhere from 6 to 14 (it has gone up to 20 in the past so I have it readjusted because at 20 was just too hard for me to exhale). Some nights you need more pressure! I love my Respironics Remstar M-Series Auto A-flex. Also, it has a slightly adjustable lower exhalation pressure.
I also suggest trying the ResMed Liberty mask which is considered a full face mask even though it only covers your mouth! So comfortable and almost never leaks! Try both sizes to see which you prefer. They told me I needed a "small" size, but I ended up finally switching to a large and it is better for me than the small was.
Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of CPAP!! I would never sleep without it!!
WAF
"Hypopnea" just means shallow breathing - not taking in enough air. I actually had more hypopnea than obstruction, though I had both. Some nights I am way worse than others - it is scary - feeling like I might not wake up. Nothing "peaceful" about it!
Trouble with nighttime breathing caused by brain's reduced ability to get the message out has been found in MS and . . . ALS.
The following is a very good website for sleep apnea support and questions where other hose-noses hang out and share their experiences.
http://www.apneasupport.org/index.php
To LATW I recommend getting a CPAP with a memory card (so you can see how you are doing without having to pay for another expensive sleep titration study). The card can store your data for months and then it can be printed out in great detail.
Also, it's best to have a machine that will adjust its pressures to your changing needs. My pressure can go anywhere from 6 to 14 (it has gone up to 20 in the past so I have it readjusted because at 20 was just too hard for me to exhale). Some nights you need more pressure! I love my Respironics Remstar M-Series Auto A-flex. Also, it has a slightly adjustable lower exhalation pressure.
I also suggest trying the ResMed Liberty mask which is considered a full face mask even though it only covers your mouth! So comfortable and almost never leaks! Try both sizes to see which you prefer. They told me I needed a "small" size, but I ended up finally switching to a large and it is better for me than the small was.
Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of CPAP!! I would never sleep without it!!
WAF
Welcome to the club. CPAP made a tremendous difference for me in terms of the quality of my sleep. I think it's been two years or so. I do have OSA. I've never really understood the difference between hypopnea and obstructive sleep apnea.
I think I understand central sleep apnea, and to be honest, I'm surprised more MS patients don't mention that. I'm sure our friend Dr. Park could add some clarification here, if he reads this forum regularly. In central sleep apnea (as explained to me), the patient stops breathing due to causes that don't involve the closure of the airway. I would be surprised if MS couldn't sometimes, for some patients, interfere with the signals between the brain and the chest muscles that keep us breathing, as I think we've already talked about how it might be suspect in some heart arrhythmias.
Regardless, LA, we pray that the machine does you at least as much good as it has for me.
I think I understand central sleep apnea, and to be honest, I'm surprised more MS patients don't mention that. I'm sure our friend Dr. Park could add some clarification here, if he reads this forum regularly. In central sleep apnea (as explained to me), the patient stops breathing due to causes that don't involve the closure of the airway. I would be surprised if MS couldn't sometimes, for some patients, interfere with the signals between the brain and the chest muscles that keep us breathing, as I think we've already talked about how it might be suspect in some heart arrhythmias.
Regardless, LA, we pray that the machine does you at least as much good as it has for me.
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