Steroids and thrush?

[Lulu54]

As you know , I confess I am not the medical expert around here but these sure are a bunch of you who are!

Here's my question - when I woke today, the sides of the end of my tongue were red and irritated.  Now this afternoon, my tongue continues to ache.  Fortunately it is not outright pain, but it is still irritating.

I'm suspecting something like thrush and wonder if any of you can lend some expertise ? And going into the weekend, any suggestions for home remdies until  I see the doctor on Monday?

[twopack]

I suspect you will be fine either way.  It never hurts to be a little screwey.

[Lulu54]

nice try with that word, Mary.  You almost got it through twice.  I am having the hardware (screws) removed from my bunionectomy tomorrow and the doctors were debating that because my WBC was elevated from last week's pre-surgery workup.  They had me do it again yesterday and it shows a slight decrease. The docs are happy it is coming down and ok'd me to be unscrewed.  

We'll see if the autocensor lets those words go through.

[twopack]

As I suspected.
We all know it anyway.

[twopack]

WOW!!
The auto-censor didn't star the word suck!
I bet we still can't say MS *****.....

[twopack]

Sorry I wasn't here to add my vote earlier.  For future reference (that I hope won't be needed by anyone) I would have suggested a call to the doc who ordered the ‘roids to get a script called or e-scripted to the pharmacy.  "The Sooner The Better" would seem to be a good mantra when dealing with oral candida.

The Tysabri probably has you immunosuppressed enough that the add-on steroids took you over the trush edge.  It does usually present as a white coating on the lips, tongue, gum and/or cheeks but removing that coating (like during oral hygiene) leaves areas that are red, raw, tender (to downright painful) and capable of bleeding.

FYI on the S&S (Swish & Swallow):
Do the treatment after meals.  Clean your mouth first and **remove dentures or other removable dental appliances** during each treatment so the medicine can reach every spot it needs to.  Swish as completely as you can for as long as you can before swallowing.

In fact, it's a good idea to split the dose and S&S twice to get the best coating of medicine on all your oral membranes.  (Does that make it a S&S&S - Split & Swish & Spit? lol)  Seriously, this gives the medicine a better opportunity to adhere to tissues as you swallow smaller amounts.  (This stuff can decide to take an excursion down the pike.)

You can even get one of those kiddie dosing syringes (or get a regular one - sans needle - from your doctor) to draw up your dose. Carefully squirt (but don’t splash) a bit directly on the worst areas - then swish and swish and swish, then swallow.  (I guess the “S” game could go on forever!)

As always, FINISH THE ENTIRE PRESCRIBED COURSE unless your doc directs you otherwise along the way.  You don't want this bad boy to take a detour or make a round trip.

Make sure you read the prescription directions.  Every once in a while a doc might prescribe a Swish & SPIT.  The only thing I can add to that (beside noting yet another S-word) is to have a disposable drool & drip catcher handy!

If you really can't tolerate the S&S there is a troche you suck on (stars=you let it melt in your mouth).  I never tried one.  I'm guessing it doesn't taste like a LifeSaver.

Add on hints:
Keep your mouth clean but avoid "germ killing" mouthwashes.  Yes, even after this clears.  They clean out more than is necessary or good.  Right now they can delay the return to a normal F&F balance (less flora & healthier fauna).  Besides, the alcohol in most will hurt like you know what.

Limit the amount of sugar and yeast containing foods you eat (and drink - sorry about the beer implications).  Fungi thrive on these 'nutrients'.

Lulu, if you take high dose steroids again in the future (especially while taking Tysabri) there's a good chance you will need the S&S again.  It might not hurt to have a script on file 'just in case".

I wonder with sooooo many S-words why only that ONE gets starred. ;)


PS - I hope they gave Alex a open ended Rx for this stuff while she’s taking chemo treatments!

[Lulu54]

Yep, doctor agrees with your dx of thrush.  Swish and swallow stuff is gross but I can do this.  Yuck!  It appears it was kept under control by all. The yogurt and salt water rinses everyone recommend.

[Guitar_grrrl]

The GSE is WAYY more tolerable in a little glass of orange or grapefruit juice.  Trouble is, thrush thrives on sugar!  Brush your teeth after.  The swish and swallow stuff works well, too, and I've had a couple old hippie friends paint the affected area with tincture of Gentian Violet (available at drugstores in the US pharmacopea section along with the glycerine, ipecak, iodine, etc.).  It worked!

I'm sorry you're going through all this, Lu!  
Big Hugs!

[michelleric]

Hey l,

I had thrush in the past. Once during a hospital stay, and yes, as Alex mentioned with Adair.

I had to swish and swallow with...hmmm. Can't remember. I will have to check and get back to you.  It was 2 didn't meds.

It hurt, was thick white/green.  Nice picture, huh?

Michelle

[anon07072023]

I've never had thrush, but my mom would get it quite often with her disease.  Plus, she was charge RN at her hospital before she went on disability, so she always knew what to look for (medically).  Hers was always a white coating on her tongue. I'm not for sure if it has other presentations or not.

I hope you feel better soon.

[Lulu54]

thanks summerluver and everyone else.  I will check on the GSE tomorrow.   For now  Ithink we are just treating my mouth, but that could certainly change.

[summerluvr]

I use something called "GSE" (grapefruit seed extract).  you can buy it at the health food store. Put about 10 drops into a glass of water and then rinse your mouth and spit it out.  It tastes awful, very bitter, but it is an all natural remedy.  I also take probiotics. If you are getting vaginal thrush (ick) you can also insert a capsule (they are gel caps) at bedtime for a few days to try and balance things out. Keep in mind this is a supplement, not a treatment so is better at the first symptoms, and not to treat a full on infection.

I had a few years of chronic yeast, but now I rarely have it.  I think alot was hormonal for me, so now i have chemo menopause i am much less prone.

[HVAC]

If your taste is altered you may have thrush. That is a key sign. Yes steroids can cause it . Anyone with asthma and  who uses advair the powdered steroid knows about thrush. I gargle with salt water myself when ever I am on steroids. Anytime your immune system is down you can get it as well. I got mine when I was on antibiotics and advair. I switched inhalers since advair is prone to it.

I hope you get better soon.

[Lulu54]

I am not in pain, it is just uncomfortable.  It feels somewhat like a day or two after you burn your tongue on a hot food (think cheese pizza!)

Someone suggested active culture yogurt - maybe I'll combine the two ideas  and swish and swallow with it! LOL

thanks for taking the time to give me your take on this.

[Princepaso]

Oh my gosh yes I had steroid thrush same symptoms and required swish and swallow for several months
Nothing else worked
Swish and swallow is a nystatin suspension
And was from my last ivsm infusion
Hope you get some help.  I could not eat
K

[Needhelp16]

And as an adult you wouldn't be able to eat anything. Just jello, pudding, mashed potatoes etc because it'll hurt too much.

[Needhelp16]

My understanding is thrush is usually whitish yellow.  It's a fungal infection that needs anti-fungal meds.

[maxthecat43]

There are lots of posts, and even some articles that connect solumedrol with thrush.  Did your GP put you onto the "swish and swallow" medicine to help get rid of it?