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Transposing #s

Good afternoon everyone.  
I am a 33 year old female. I have been having daily numbness down the entire left side of my back since November.  Sometimes it last 10 seconds and others 10 minutes.  Some days it happens more than others.  I can tell that when I am out and about it happens more often and lasts longer.  My regular doctor said its probably just a pinched nerve and put me on an elephant dosage of steroids.  I had the numbness and tingling the whole week.
I am having several other symptoms that a nurse friend of mine said with the numbness could be MS.  
I have epilepsy so I have a neurologist that I have an appointment with next week..
My question is: I know that visual disturbances are a symptom... Has anyone had any problems with transposing #s?  I can read words just fine, but when it comes to entering or writing down numbers I mess up all the time!!  3702 ends up being 3072 or 606 ends up being 060.  I told my reg dr about it and she told me to get my eyes checked and the other 20 things were probably just my thyroid...
A lot of the time I say the # as I am entering/writing it. I speak it correctly but write it down backwards and other times I just see it backwards.  
Does this sound familiar to anyone else?
I am very much concerned about this...  I want to be prepared for anything.
Thanks to all for your time.
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Avatar_f_tn
Welcome to our MS forum. We hope you'll feel comfortable here.

It's good you're going to see your neuro soon. Be sure to tell him/her about all your new symptoms, when and for how long they happen, and how long this has been going on.

Getting words and numbers mixed up often happens with MS, but this is a brain problem, not an eye one. Your eyes see the right thing--it's your brain that scrambles it. Getting an eye check (from an ophthalmologist, not an optometrist) is always a good idea. Also, if nothing shows as abnormal, ask your neuro for a referral to an MS specialist. I'm hoping that won't be necessary, but as you say, being prepared is all to the good.

Please let us know how you're doing.

ess
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1260255_tn?1288658164
For me it's not just numbers, it's also letters, whether I am typing or writing by hand.

I will also garble syllables when I speak!

Definitely something going on in this pea brain of mine!
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338416_tn?1260996698
It's amazing how many different people with MS report this same exact problem.  There's something in how MS attacks the brain - the language center is definitely affected.

Letters and numbers are transposed quite often with me, as well as whole sentences - I have to look carefully at what I type to make sure it makes sense.  Also, people with MS often have a hard time with nouns in their speech - not being able to identify objects, or calling it by the wrong noun.  TV instead of fridge, for example, or microwave instead of oven.  Sometimes it's in the same category.  When I've been really bad off, I'll tend to call things by another word that has some of the same letters.

Your back numbness is an indication of something, possibly a pinched nerve.  However, it could also be a lesion in the spine.  See if your neurologist will schedule you for an MRI with contrast of the brain and spinal cord, preferably 1.5 Tesla or above.  Even if it's just a pinched nerve, the radiologist will be able to see what's going on.
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Avatar_f_tn
You know, I do mis pronounce words, and when I am reading I find myself looking at words not knowing what they are because in my mind I am emphasizing the wrong syllable or pronouncing them wrong~ (obliged was the word the other day)...  Words that I've known forever, but the most frustrating for me is forgetting common words and standing there in front of whoever i am speaking with stuttering trying to think of,  'you know that word that means __BLARG__' .    They're like brain farts on steroids!!  
This has gotten really bad over the last 3 months.  I sat at the kitchen table w/ my 13 yr old last night spending 10 minutes trying to come up w/ the word discipline.  I couldn't even come up w/ any synonyms so she could help me pin point the word.  
I suppose I have just been chalking it all up to 'Momma's getting old'
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751951_tn?1406636463
I thought that was something that came with being 33 and having a 13 year old.

Try being 53 & having a 14 year old stepson. ;>)

Glad you're going to get it checked out.  Good advice from all of the above.
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Avatar_f_tn
:o)
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987762_tn?1331031553
Anyone who becomes dyslexic-ish as an adult, needs to have their head examined (lol) by a neurologist. You say you are epileptic, is this also adult onset or childhood, either way though your epilepcy could be a factor in whats happening mentally, and needs checking out. I'm unsure if epilepsy also could be a factor in the physical side of things too but it makes sense to me that it could.

I just had a mental moment talking to my mum about childhood diseases, i mentioned how common chicken nuggets use to be, seriouly i couldnt for the life of me work out what was so funny, ahhhhh i did mean to say chicken pox ROFL!

I've been getting more and more scrambled lately though i dont transpose, just loose my nouns, memories and executive functions, which is enough lol.

Go see your neurologist and dont leave anything out, it would probably be a good idea to list everything that is happening but keep it brief and if needed give a simple explanation.

Cheers.........JJ
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897447_tn?1242239587
about 1/2 the time I'm writing I forget the noun and my spelling is going down hill. sometimes when I read, I'll be stuck on a word because I don't remember what the syllable is.

I also garble syllables when I talk and/or use the wrong word like I'll get dinner out of the table. or calling close pin a paperclip. needless to say my kids have been giving me some weird looks or start laughing (they don't laugh unless I am) lately.

I'm in limboland now. I'm going to a neuro may 13. hopefully he can start putting my sx together and figure whats going on
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751951_tn?1406636463
My biggest problem in writing for the past couple of years comes when I am thinking of one word and type another that sounds the same but is very different, such as "there," "their," and "they're."  I know the difference, absolutely, and I find my patience tested with seemingly otherwise educated people who do this all the time, yet I am now finding myself doing it -- all the time.  The really odd thing is that I can see myself doing it, every time, and have to back up to correct myself.  I never had this problem before, at least not since junior high school.  Grrr.  Maybe it comes from being 53 & having a 14 year old stepson.
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1295859_tn?1285271491
I do transpose numbers but it doesn't bother me. when I'm typing or writing and my brain is saying one thing, yet my fingers seem to have a mind of their own and put something else down. Most the time this is funny to me, but I've started getting a tad concerned when my mouth does this too.

I get frustrated when looking like an idiot trying to come up with a word I can't find. made motions and even sounds sometimes before I finally get the word. thinking of the word fork?  pointed fingers and stabbing motions. one thing to do this with friends and laugh but at work it irks me.

Thought is was being 50. Ok,so it started 10 years ago. now it happens more often. Yes, I sometimes wonder if its dementia like my mom had but there is nothing I can do about it other then laugh.
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Avatar_f_tn
I've been having seizures since I was about 4 or 5.  Simple partial and complex partial... no one ever knew what it was so family drs just dertermined that Amanda was weird and I went unmedicated for 15 years.  I started taking meds in 1997.
The seizures are for the most part controlled except for my 'happy time' of the month.  I have noticed in the last few months I have had more and more partial seizures.

I suppose I am just really angry w/ my primary doctor... If I all of a sudden dropped to the floor and delivered a litter of puppies she would suggest we up my thyroid meds.  Even though 1/3 my symptoms are hypo, 1/3 are hyperthyroid and the other 1/3 have nothing to do w/ a thyroid... the numbness thing and the vision thing, I can't breath sometimes...  I was cursed at birth in regards to the medical field in general!!  :o)  I very much dislike doctors!!
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1140169_tn?1370188676
I too have trouble thinking of words.

My wife usualy fills in for me if she knows what I'm trying to say, but it can be embarassing when talking with accuantances or strangers.

I also substitute the wrong word sometimes.

A big frustration is trhat I can no longer remember phone numbers.I was always good at remembering numbers until Feb '09 when I first knew I had a problem.

The old brain just doesn't work right these days. A couple months ago I had to call the local garage to see if our car was ready. I dialled the number from memory at least 6 times thoughout the day, and got a weird beeping noise each time. I was sure the lines were down.

Later the same day I suddenly realized what I was doing wrong. I was dialing my own phone number. At least I figured it out myself.lol

Remember doctors are people too. Some are caring and good at their craft, others are not. My brother-in-law has a theory that 10% of all people are a$$holes. This includes everyone, doctors too. (maybe the % is higher when it comes to neuro's..LOL)

Your primary dr may be one of the 10%........

You need to find a dr you can trust and depend on.

Good luck to you

Mike, dx ms
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Avatar_f_tn
You know it is so funny that you say that....  
I was told to make a list for my neurologist. (I love him!!  No sense of humor at all but he listens to me when I talk so I could not ask for much more!! :o) ) and two of the things on there were based on the fact that my mind USED TO be a steel trap!
I can't remember peoples names 2 minutes after they tell me what they are.  I can't remember recipes that I have made 1,000 times, I forgot this morning if I had fed the dog.  I put food in her bowl and she looked at me like I was stupid so I think I had fed her.  I used to hear a phone # , name or address and know it/ not anymore.
I tell the kids, "Its on the um, the um, um" pointing at the counter and my oldest daughter says, "The counter?!?"
They have no idea that something might be wrong...  There is no need to worry them, but I think they know something is up.  I get so winded and start panting just carrying laundry up the stairs and I can't think of the silliest words and I am just always tired.

You brother in law is sooo right about that 10% thing!!  Why is it that we tend to remember the bad rather than the good!!

Thanks so much to all for all your kind words.
Have an appt w/ Dr. tomorrow so only time will tell.
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1140169_tn?1370188676
HAH!!! You gota know you're in trouble when your dog looks at you like you're stupid!

Good luck with tomorrow's dr's appt!

Mike
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338416_tn?1260996698
>  My biggest problem in writing for the past couple of years comes when I am thinking of one word and type another that sounds the same but is very different, such as "there," "their," and "they're."  I know the difference, absolutely, and I find my patience tested with seemingly otherwise educated people who do this all the time, yet I am now finding myself doing it -- all the time.  The really odd thing is that I can see myself doing it, every time, and have to back up to correct myself.  I never had this problem before, at least not since junior high school.

That's exactly what I had a problem with for several years.  I think it must be how we store language.  
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Avatar_f_tn
I never did think my writing was effected...   until my husband mentioned something...
I know that I have been transposing numbers (we ended up at the wrong house this weekend~ embarrassing!!!)  but it turns out that my hands have been transposing the letters on the keyboard too.  If I need to type w/ my left hand the right hand will make the correct strokes and vice versa. If I want to type SAM my hands type KLC...   I have been using expletives and the backspace key more than ever!!
I know exactly what you mean about patience being tested. A lot of the times I backspace and type the incorrect word exactly the same again. WTH, right?!?

I used to be a 40/ minute ~ easy and now I would be lucky to be 20-25 a minute...
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Avatar_f_tn
I had my appt. w/ my neuro today.
Doc said that he could not find anything neurologically wrong w/ me!! He said that almost every symptom I have could be a symptom of Generalized Anxiety Disorder. He asked me if I tend to worry about things. I don't think I do... If there is something going on I worry and get consumed by it until I get it fixed, but a majority of the time Steven and I are 'if life gives you limes, scrounge up some tequila and make margaritas'.  I have a pretty easy, laid back life.

He said he wants to rule out the inexpensive stuff before he starts ordering expensive tests..(I love him!!!) I had a bunch of blood work done today to rule out medicine induce symptoms. If all comes back okay(almost positive it will) then he is going to prescribe a mild anti depressant so we can try to treat this as anxiety.  If it does not work then we will need to start thinking about the expensive tests. (MRI CAT scans)

I started to think about what my son has had to go through this year... He has been a victim of bullying since the year began.  The school let it go on for over 5 months.  They did not do anything until my emails got extrememly angry and the abuse got dangerously violent.  Even then, no serious action was taken until I called the Super Intendent... My shoulders are tensing just writing about it...

Then, about a month ago I found out that my daughter is having the same kind of seizures that I have been having since I was very young. I know it is not my fault, but I feel so responsible... I know the worries that I have had in my life and I feel terrible that she might have to deal w/ the same worries.  It is 3 years away and I am already terrified about her driving.  I have tears in my eyes right now just thinking about it...

In the grand scheme of things, looking back this has been a pretty stressful year for me.
The only thing that does not seem to fit is me seeing and doing things backwards... the transposing numbers and my left hand typing the right letter and vice versa.

Much thanks to everyone!!  You guys are a lot nicer than the peeps on the Epilepsy forums!! :o)
Take care!!

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338416_tn?1260996698
My rule is that if your neuro starts talking about Generalized Anxiety Disorder, you need to run away very quickly.  It's a lazy diagnosis that takes the neuro out of the loop - basically he's saying you're crazy.  If he really thinks you're making this stuff up, have him set you up with a neuro-psych exam.  

Blood work will not eliminate MS as a diagnosis.  However, it's worth it to eliminate medicine-induced symptoms.  

Good luck!
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987762_tn?1331031553
As soon as i started reading your post i was cringing and thinking 'here we go again' anxiety (or migraine) seems to be the easy explanation for neurologists at the moment. If neurologist were right everytime they gave out these whoppers, the psych's would be rubbing their hands in glee and not testing these patients and sending them back to the neurologists.lol

What you are mainly experiencing is a change in cognitive ability, its out side the box to not order tests that would determine the extent of your losses, if any, it is wrong wrong wrong to not order a neuro-psysch assessment and or a mental health assessment. Under the circumstances he's just speculating that what you experience is emotional based and only emotionally based. He is so sure he's not recommending any tests that would determine this, it really doesnt matter how he wraps this up so its easier to swallow, its still more than obvious that he is dismissing the possibility that it could be anything else, he's not even going to confirm his speculations, he's that sure!

I've got a visiter at the door but i've got more i want to say lol, i'll be back.

JJ
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Avatar_f_tn
I would definitely like to hear it what you have to say...  My neurologist's mother in law died so I saw one of his partners yesterday... He did the whole DUI test (thats what I compare it to) on me and could not fine anything 'neurologically wrong' with me... I'm not sure what would be considered 'wrong'
My doctor should be calling me back today.

I am going to hear back in regards to blood work today... He wanted to make sure it is not medication induced.  As far as I understand, you cannot measure Topamax and Lamictal levels in your blood.  He wanted to test the Carbamazepine level...  it was fine when I was taking 3 a day.  I am only taking 1 at bedtime now so I can't imagine that the level is off the charts. I'm not too sure what he is looking for beyond that...  
I have had a lot of stress in my life the last several months, but for the most part I have always been a happy go lucky (whatever happens happens) person. I didn't think about it being a 'lazy diagnosis'... that is kind of scarey.  I told my husband this morning that I was sitting on the deck drinking coffee playing with the dog... Completely relaxed and my back went totally numb.  I was thinking about nothing more than how much I love my dog and how delicious my coffee was!!  :o)  Thats not stressful!!  :o)

Plus I am kind of weary of having to take anti depressants for a problem that I potentially don't have when I already have to take so many pills ( I just typed pissl) :oO on a daily basis.
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338416_tn?1260996698
I've heard of people with epilepsy, that were later diagnosed with MS, and vice versa.  Since your symptoms are mainly paresthesia and cognitive problems, I would guess that if there's damage, it's in the brain.

I would definitely opt for the MRI as soon as possible.  With epilepsy and cognitive problems, it's only logical to send you in for scans.
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Avatar_f_tn
I just happen to think.... the neuro said that he could not find anything neurologically wrong w/ me....I was so relieved when he said that!!
DUH AMANDA!!  Epilepsy is neurologically wrong.  Even unmedicated, unless I was seizing he would not be able to find anything 'neurologically wrong'.

What exactly was he looking for, I wonder.

I will be glad when MY doctor calls today.  I will probably tell him that I don't want to start taking any new meds w/o knowing for sure what the problem is.  
I'll tell him not to cause me any stress cause I'm a woman on the edge!!!  :o)

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Good luck!
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987762_tn?1331031553
Hi, sorry it took so long to get back, after my dd left, the Internet went down so i couldnt get back on, so sorry about that!

What a nincompooooooop, a total dufuss nutt case, here he has a epilepsy patient who's now experiencing significant cognitive changes and sensory symptoms (paresthesia), none of which are VISIBLE to the naked eye! MS should be put on the shelf, there are enough reasons to investigate your current brain activity, simply from the perspective of an epilepsy patient.

Are you sure the blood tests are only to measure your current drugs, it makes me think he's assuming you are taking more than what is prescribed, he's looking at how much is in your system not if it is, if you get what i mean. If your reacting to a drug, which is possible, simply because of the class of drugs you take, i'm unsure how a blood test would be able to determine this, it could i suppose but i cant work out how.

I wouldnt hesitate to get your mental health checked out, if there is clinical evidence of anxiety, then you can move forward and deal with it, btw drugs are not in my opinion the first intervention to take. Cognitive behavioral training i think should be the first option and drugs if that doesnt help, or a combination if the anxiety is so severe that you are unable to function in life. I am so doubtful of this being your problem though, you sound like a half glass full type, an optimist, if you did have anxiety consistent enough to warrant a dx, you would know it. Its not a looking back type of problem, so please dont try and find reasons to make it more plausible.

I think its in your best interest to get an MRI, EEG (the one that measure brain waves but i might have the acronym wrong), a mental health assessment and a neuro-psych evaluation along with blood tests to rule out things like thyroid, diabetes etc.

Cheers........JJ
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751951_tn?1406636463
I think JJ makes a lot of sense here.  The neuropsych eval I had last year affirmed that I wasn't off my rocker, but had some physical/medical/neuro issues that might explain some of my rocking!
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I am so upset today!!  I had bloodwork done the other day.
It seem that my creatinine levels are just a bit elevated.  Normal is 1.0-1.2.  Mine is 1.3...  "We need to get this checked out" says my neuro...  I say that is fine, now what about all this other stuff....  
"Lets get this checked before we discuss the other."
It just seems like everyone is deflecting and looking for other ailments to concentrate on so that they don't have to talk about my big monster right now.
Its really making me nervous.  He is the 3rd doctor that has done this.

Upset is an understatement.... I am pissed!! .\/.
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987762_tn?1331031553
I think you need to focus on the indications of measurable evidence, until such time as it provides the answers or not. I dont think deflecting is quite right thinking, what i do think is that when there is evidence of something, it would be wrong to put it aside, it warrents exploration.

Try this quick read on creatinine:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/serum-creatinine.htm/printable

If you were a young healthy man your measure would be only slightly elevated, for a female that could be too high, it should be checked out first, and monitored. Its intirely posible that its nothing, then it becomes one more posibilty tick off and they can continue to investigate.

Please dont be angry or upset, they found something, it may turn out to be one small piece of the puzzle, but it still needs sorting out!

Cheers.....JJ
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I am very glad to read you decided against taking an antidepressant at this point in time.

Mild anti-anxiety medications are one thing.  Antidepressants are something else entirely, and they should not be taken as an experiment to rule out the existence of an underlying physical problem.
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Going on Monday to have additional bloodwork done.  I completely agree with you.... We need to figure out if there is a prbolem or if it was, as my nuero says, just a flukey test.

I just don't understand why no one will talk to me about the numbness, confusion, weakness, etc, etc. It seems like a big deal to me, but I suppose since its happening to me... It is a big deal to me.  He confirmed today that one thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other and kept talking in circles of why he would not talk to me about it...
I finally got mad and said, "Look you're not answering my question".  He said that I definitely need to be seen agian...
I supose that this has been going on for a long time and I had one dr tell me~ ist nothing.... just a pinched nerve, another~ its nothing, just anxiety and now this...  Can't talk to you until we solve this riddle which has nothing at all to do with the other by the way!!

I am just so ready for someone to sit and talk to me!!  
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987762_tn?1331031553
I've noticed your frustration, and i really understand it but it is important for you to not become stressed out by this, it doesnt help you. If you were already dx with MS we would all be telling you to relax and find your happy place, MS and stress are not good!! I recommend a glass of wine and a huge hunk on chocolate cake, and most importantly (because i strongly believe in feel good funnies) find your way to the funny side of life and laugh!! :-)

I strongly recommend getting an 'independant' mental health assessment done as part of your work up, you can think of it as a pre-emptive strike. IF there is a mental health condition that is making your life hell, then YOU will know AND if there is no mental health condition then YOU have proof that YOU need neurological help and not psychological help!! If he is wrong then prove it, give him the evidence he needs to change his mind, it might not work though, he maybe the type of dr that cant accept anything that doesnt support his thinking.

I wonder if he suspects conversion disorder, we've just got a new health page written by Sammy, which might help to understand why the reluctance to communicate with you. I'm not saying that is the issue, just that it seems possible concidering the reluctance on his part and him already saying he thinks your issues are from general anxiety. But I really feel the need to stress, that anyone who is dealing with unknown and unexplained medical issues can eventually become anxious and or depressed about their health.

It really is a what came first, the chicken or the egg type senario, what would be helpful to you, is knowing if you do have anxiety or not and if you do, if it is only related to feeling that your current changes in health are not being taken seriously, therefore not the cause but the result of.

Earlier you wrote "He said that almost every symptom I have could be a symptom of Generalized Anxiety Disorder. He asked me if I tend to worry about things. I don't think I do... If there is something going on I worry and get consumed by it until I get it fixed, but a majority of the time Steven and I are 'if life gives you limes, scrounge up some tequila and make margaritas'.  I have a pretty easy, laid back life."

This is conflicting, polar oposite reactions, you either get consumed or take things as they come and make margaritas. Take a step back and make those margaritas, NOW! :-)

Cheers........JJ

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Avatar_m_tn
the last couple weeks i have had stabbing & tingling in my hands, tingling in my arms and a strong feeling of confusion. I work myself into a panic attack thinking about this! about a week ago i was writing and all my letters were backwards. i am not dyslexic nor have i ever been. i kept trying to fix them but couldnt. finally, i typed what i was trying to write.I went to the DR. and they tested me for B-12 deficiency which came back negative! now i am worried about what is wrong with me. I am 30 years old. If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
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