Aa
communication errors: what would you do?
Hey guys and dolls,
I'm in another episode, fatigue is getting worse day by day, physically i'm back to carp with all my familiar stuff returned, one of which is brain/cognitive fatigue. My words are slipping more and more and i do often catch it but a lot of the time until someone queeries what i'm saying, then i dont know i've used the wrong word. I called our daughter Jappy, ok thats not even a word lol for the most part i'm ok getting through it, I ask whats the word that means xxx or what was i saying and I have 100% confidence that my family or friends will simply provide the missing piece, or give me time to get the words out so I can continue the conversation. Ok its not a rule that they will do this, they just do and no one makes me uncomfortable with the way i am communicating when this is happening, its just what it is, the new me.
Last night though, that confidence was tested and i voiced my hurt and yes fear. My husband is a great man but sometimes he is very insecure and when he is feeling bad about himself, he uses sarcasm with out humour, I can always tell because there just isn't any humor or lightness. He is dead pan and only when someone reacts to the comment does he say defensively and more often than not angrily "sheeesh, it was a JOKE, can't I even tell a joke around here!" It always starts off with him saying something untrue and mean about himself but if not stopped (eg he starts feeling secure again) he will start to make these same 'sarcastic' statements about us.
Unfortunately or fortunately he doesn't mean it, its a mental health issue that really has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else but himself, its never truth but emotionally perceived negativity directed towards himself. The most frustrating thing is that its him thats putting him self down, no one else is but once it gets into his head, he reads a put down where there isnt one.
So anyway, last night I said 42 instead of 72 when he responded to the 42, i didn't know what 42 was and asked only then discovering i'd wrongly said 42, our daughter laughingly agreeing i'd said 42. No big deal but he then proceeded to be dead pan sarcastic and it hurt but in stead of saying something i stuffed food in my mouth. Later, we were talking about something of (again) no importance and he responded but his response didn't make sense if he understood what i'd said. I just assumed i'd said it mixed up and repeated my words being careful to not mix them up again. His reaction was not what I expected, he took my repeating as a dig at him, and the more i tried to fix it the worse the situation got.
Upset, I ended up asking him to tell me how I was suppose to know when he was helping me with my word mix up and when he was simply pissed off and going to get mad at me for repeating? I asked him to help me understand and all he did was tell me I would not of believed him if our daughter wasn't there to back him up and that there was no point talking to me because all it ever did was lead to a lecture!!! More upset, and honestly feeling confused for his rediculas need to be right about something of no importance but mostly because everything he was saying wasn't true, just mean and it hurt!
I'm sorry to say that I blew, I said a few things that shamed him not good or my intent, i just couldn't handle him saying I was being this type of person that i'm not now or ever will be, it is generated not from truth but from the way he was feeling about himself. It doesn't come off the same way, when your emotional, but I told him that he was the only person on the planet that I 100% trusted, that I automatically trust him, that I never not feel and know that i am loved with out condition, simply everything that I hope he would know without question he has from me. In reality I was yelling not at him but challenging these irrational thoughts, not with calm but with fear. Btw when ever he does this (which isn't very often) he feels ashamed of his behavior and it makes him feel even worse about him self, more than ever, so i would not ever intend to do that to him. I have no doubt if I wasn't fatigued i would of handled the situation a hell of a lot better than i did, but its too late for would of could of's.
What exactly did I fear, I didn't fear his emotions because I know and truely understand where they come from but I feared i'd lost that 100% confidence that It was ok being me! Ok i've probably said more than i wanted but i couldn't work out how to explain with out giving these details, I am left wondering how do you deal with your word mix ups and how do the others in your life handle them with you?
Guilty............JJ
I'm in another episode, fatigue is getting worse day by day, physically i'm back to carp with all my familiar stuff returned, one of which is brain/cognitive fatigue. My words are slipping more and more and i do often catch it but a lot of the time until someone queeries what i'm saying, then i dont know i've used the wrong word. I called our daughter Jappy, ok thats not even a word lol for the most part i'm ok getting through it, I ask whats the word that means xxx or what was i saying and I have 100% confidence that my family or friends will simply provide the missing piece, or give me time to get the words out so I can continue the conversation. Ok its not a rule that they will do this, they just do and no one makes me uncomfortable with the way i am communicating when this is happening, its just what it is, the new me.
Last night though, that confidence was tested and i voiced my hurt and yes fear. My husband is a great man but sometimes he is very insecure and when he is feeling bad about himself, he uses sarcasm with out humour, I can always tell because there just isn't any humor or lightness. He is dead pan and only when someone reacts to the comment does he say defensively and more often than not angrily "sheeesh, it was a JOKE, can't I even tell a joke around here!" It always starts off with him saying something untrue and mean about himself but if not stopped (eg he starts feeling secure again) he will start to make these same 'sarcastic' statements about us.
Unfortunately or fortunately he doesn't mean it, its a mental health issue that really has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else but himself, its never truth but emotionally perceived negativity directed towards himself. The most frustrating thing is that its him thats putting him self down, no one else is but once it gets into his head, he reads a put down where there isnt one.
So anyway, last night I said 42 instead of 72 when he responded to the 42, i didn't know what 42 was and asked only then discovering i'd wrongly said 42, our daughter laughingly agreeing i'd said 42. No big deal but he then proceeded to be dead pan sarcastic and it hurt but in stead of saying something i stuffed food in my mouth. Later, we were talking about something of (again) no importance and he responded but his response didn't make sense if he understood what i'd said. I just assumed i'd said it mixed up and repeated my words being careful to not mix them up again. His reaction was not what I expected, he took my repeating as a dig at him, and the more i tried to fix it the worse the situation got.
Upset, I ended up asking him to tell me how I was suppose to know when he was helping me with my word mix up and when he was simply pissed off and going to get mad at me for repeating? I asked him to help me understand and all he did was tell me I would not of believed him if our daughter wasn't there to back him up and that there was no point talking to me because all it ever did was lead to a lecture!!! More upset, and honestly feeling confused for his rediculas need to be right about something of no importance but mostly because everything he was saying wasn't true, just mean and it hurt!
I'm sorry to say that I blew, I said a few things that shamed him not good or my intent, i just couldn't handle him saying I was being this type of person that i'm not now or ever will be, it is generated not from truth but from the way he was feeling about himself. It doesn't come off the same way, when your emotional, but I told him that he was the only person on the planet that I 100% trusted, that I automatically trust him, that I never not feel and know that i am loved with out condition, simply everything that I hope he would know without question he has from me. In reality I was yelling not at him but challenging these irrational thoughts, not with calm but with fear. Btw when ever he does this (which isn't very often) he feels ashamed of his behavior and it makes him feel even worse about him self, more than ever, so i would not ever intend to do that to him. I have no doubt if I wasn't fatigued i would of handled the situation a hell of a lot better than i did, but its too late for would of could of's.
What exactly did I fear, I didn't fear his emotions because I know and truely understand where they come from but I feared i'd lost that 100% confidence that It was ok being me! Ok i've probably said more than i wanted but i couldn't work out how to explain with out giving these details, I am left wondering how do you deal with your word mix ups and how do the others in your life handle them with you?
Guilty............JJ
No worries, JJ, I think we all have occasional issues with hubbiness. My husband is sweet and kind, but sometimes frustrates me too! I think he has the same problem - he's worried about me and doesn't know what to do with it.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hey Jen,
After i'd posted i wanted to take it back, its all true but he doesn't sound very good and he's really one of the good ones, a very sensitive shirt off his back type of guy! The main problem is that his bucket of self esteem has a hole in it, I plug the hole all the time but sometimes it still leaks.
He's worrying about me at the moment, i've been sliding before his eyes and he can't stop it, so he blames himself. The not being able to do anything makes him feel inadequate "if only I were a better man, If only I did more etc" its those type of thoughts that keep eating away at his self esteem, no matter what goes wrong and with life something will always go wrong, he just automatically blames himself and never takes any credit for what goes right. A self propelling prophecy situation lol.
LOL What do you want to be when you grow up? A a psychologist!
After he voiced his thoughts, and me screeming at him that I trusted and love him (so not a good idea) and mainly me reminding him of all the positive things he's been overlooking due to how he's feeling, a reality check, he's back to the guy I know and love! A tad overprotective and i'm way too independant to let that go on for long but it will balance out again.
It took me 4 years to get him to the doctor to see about the sleep apnea, golly he's lost around 40 kilos now (i'm so proud of him), he doesn't think he's got sleep apnea anymore but can I get him to another sleep trial to know for sure, no, it may just take me another 4 years lol. Him going to see anyone about his mental health isn't likely, he was dx and medicated but that help turned his life upside down, so he wont do that again, period, i've tried!
I have an unwritten rule, everyone has a right to feel what ever they are feeling, but they do not have the right to blame someone else, good or bad, if they feel it they own it! Home is also everyone's safe place so anything goes, Christmas can be a hoot! ROFL!
Cheers and thanks for being there!
JJ
After i'd posted i wanted to take it back, its all true but he doesn't sound very good and he's really one of the good ones, a very sensitive shirt off his back type of guy! The main problem is that his bucket of self esteem has a hole in it, I plug the hole all the time but sometimes it still leaks.
He's worrying about me at the moment, i've been sliding before his eyes and he can't stop it, so he blames himself. The not being able to do anything makes him feel inadequate "if only I were a better man, If only I did more etc" its those type of thoughts that keep eating away at his self esteem, no matter what goes wrong and with life something will always go wrong, he just automatically blames himself and never takes any credit for what goes right. A self propelling prophecy situation lol.
LOL What do you want to be when you grow up? A a psychologist!
After he voiced his thoughts, and me screeming at him that I trusted and love him (so not a good idea) and mainly me reminding him of all the positive things he's been overlooking due to how he's feeling, a reality check, he's back to the guy I know and love! A tad overprotective and i'm way too independant to let that go on for long but it will balance out again.
It took me 4 years to get him to the doctor to see about the sleep apnea, golly he's lost around 40 kilos now (i'm so proud of him), he doesn't think he's got sleep apnea anymore but can I get him to another sleep trial to know for sure, no, it may just take me another 4 years lol. Him going to see anyone about his mental health isn't likely, he was dx and medicated but that help turned his life upside down, so he wont do that again, period, i've tried!
I have an unwritten rule, everyone has a right to feel what ever they are feeling, but they do not have the right to blame someone else, good or bad, if they feel it they own it! Home is also everyone's safe place so anything goes, Christmas can be a hoot! ROFL!
Cheers and thanks for being there!
JJ
Man... don't know what to tell you, but it's hard enough to deal with this disease without having to play psychologist with your hubby!
I would try again with the psychiatrist, but have a private discussion with him/her beforehand - talk about your problems and why this is a good idea.
I would try again with the psychiatrist, but have a private discussion with him/her beforehand - talk about your problems and why this is a good idea.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Your all totally spot on!
Well I now know i wasn't being overly sensitive, DD called wanting me to explain why Dad was being mean to me for mixing up my words, (my 42/72 mix up) she'd picked up his tone and looked at me to see if she was reading it right, saw that my face looked hurt but then i totally confused her when i stuffed food in my mouth. Being an Aspie she's had to learn to pick up on tone, lol she also wanted to know when she would be old enough to tell Dad off, she's 25 god love her!
He has a childhood issue that's not mine to tell, but it's behind the insecurity issues he has and why his thoughts take off in a negative direction. Donkey's years ago we went to a therapist about it and his reaction to perceived negativity, it went well he was opening up and he was happy going to therapy. Unfortunately, he had a really bad day at work, we went to therapy and I sat there for an hour listening to him describe me as being the most outrageously aggressive she devil on the planet, he was really angry and talking about someone i didn't know or ever wished to know. He felt great, where as I felt like dog poop and if he wanted therapy then he was doing it with out me, so he joined a men's group at the therapists recommendation. Turned out the blokes in the group were the bad people of the world, their stories made him physically sick and he never went again.
Fast forward a decade and sleep apnea has been added to the problem, trigger subjects are taboo and avoided to minimise the issues, his doctor recommended he see a psychiatrist. 3 months into seeing his psychiatrist, DH invites me to come to a session, the doc annoyed asks me why I'm interfering, dh then proceeds to describe the persecution he is subjected too, the castration etc etc etc I sat silently crying the entire time, he was brutal and ugly, the psychiatrist encouraging him to speak his mind and flog me, the longer it went on the more outrageous he was. Eventually the psychiatrist recognised what was happening, it took awhile and when we left I asked for a divorce!
That was 5 years ago, its not got like that since then, he is a wonderful sweet man but when he gets this way, he's unrecognisable even to himself. I spoke to him about what was happening, he's not wearing his mask, loosing a lot of weight, underpressure from whats happening to me etc He thinks i've (weeks on end) constantly been putting him down, and critisising him, so not true btw. One example he gave was him cooking steak last week and me asking if there was a different peice, what he failed to acknowledge in my request was that i asked after telling him my mouth wasn't working again and i couldn't even chew the salad. Nore did he aknowledge that i'd initially told him he'd cooked the steak beautifully, and once i'd worked my self out I'd praised his steak at least a half a dozen times, which I had.
Its just what ever I say that can be construde as a critism when he's feeling insecure becomes proof positive that i'm critising him and putting him down, how am I suppose to know when all the nice things i say are going to be overridden by a slight i'm not even giving? lol He gave others similar to that, all were equally off the mark, as devoid of logic that this is, me not being able to chew was construde as a critism of him, impossible to deal with that type of logic. After the fact he gets his thinking is off but still when its happening its not possible to deal with, i've had 20 years practise with this one lol.
wow maybe too much information lol so like me, i'll leave the last word to our DD "Mum your allowed to be loopy when you talk, I'll love you anyway you are, this is the new you and I like her!"
Thanks guys and dolls :-) my rocks!!
JJ
Well I now know i wasn't being overly sensitive, DD called wanting me to explain why Dad was being mean to me for mixing up my words, (my 42/72 mix up) she'd picked up his tone and looked at me to see if she was reading it right, saw that my face looked hurt but then i totally confused her when i stuffed food in my mouth. Being an Aspie she's had to learn to pick up on tone, lol she also wanted to know when she would be old enough to tell Dad off, she's 25 god love her!
He has a childhood issue that's not mine to tell, but it's behind the insecurity issues he has and why his thoughts take off in a negative direction. Donkey's years ago we went to a therapist about it and his reaction to perceived negativity, it went well he was opening up and he was happy going to therapy. Unfortunately, he had a really bad day at work, we went to therapy and I sat there for an hour listening to him describe me as being the most outrageously aggressive she devil on the planet, he was really angry and talking about someone i didn't know or ever wished to know. He felt great, where as I felt like dog poop and if he wanted therapy then he was doing it with out me, so he joined a men's group at the therapists recommendation. Turned out the blokes in the group were the bad people of the world, their stories made him physically sick and he never went again.
Fast forward a decade and sleep apnea has been added to the problem, trigger subjects are taboo and avoided to minimise the issues, his doctor recommended he see a psychiatrist. 3 months into seeing his psychiatrist, DH invites me to come to a session, the doc annoyed asks me why I'm interfering, dh then proceeds to describe the persecution he is subjected too, the castration etc etc etc I sat silently crying the entire time, he was brutal and ugly, the psychiatrist encouraging him to speak his mind and flog me, the longer it went on the more outrageous he was. Eventually the psychiatrist recognised what was happening, it took awhile and when we left I asked for a divorce!
That was 5 years ago, its not got like that since then, he is a wonderful sweet man but when he gets this way, he's unrecognisable even to himself. I spoke to him about what was happening, he's not wearing his mask, loosing a lot of weight, underpressure from whats happening to me etc He thinks i've (weeks on end) constantly been putting him down, and critisising him, so not true btw. One example he gave was him cooking steak last week and me asking if there was a different peice, what he failed to acknowledge in my request was that i asked after telling him my mouth wasn't working again and i couldn't even chew the salad. Nore did he aknowledge that i'd initially told him he'd cooked the steak beautifully, and once i'd worked my self out I'd praised his steak at least a half a dozen times, which I had.
Its just what ever I say that can be construde as a critism when he's feeling insecure becomes proof positive that i'm critising him and putting him down, how am I suppose to know when all the nice things i say are going to be overridden by a slight i'm not even giving? lol He gave others similar to that, all were equally off the mark, as devoid of logic that this is, me not being able to chew was construde as a critism of him, impossible to deal with that type of logic. After the fact he gets his thinking is off but still when its happening its not possible to deal with, i've had 20 years practise with this one lol.
wow maybe too much information lol so like me, i'll leave the last word to our DD "Mum your allowed to be loopy when you talk, I'll love you anyway you are, this is the new you and I like her!"
Thanks guys and dolls :-) my rocks!!
JJ
The most difficult part of cognitive problems is that you don't know if you're the problem. When things are bad I say the wrong word all the time, or use the wrong phrase. It's pretty much understood that if what I say doesn't make any sense, then it's almost certainly my problem, not his, but every once in a while things go awry.
I think hubby also has some memory issues - he'll remember me doing stuff, or saying stuff, that I would not have said. But it's hard to call him on it when I have memory issues!
The only thing you can do is make sure everybody knows what's going on, and that you may not always say the right thing - and hope that everybody's cool about it.
I think hubby also has some memory issues - he'll remember me doing stuff, or saying stuff, that I would not have said. But it's hard to call him on it when I have memory issues!
The only thing you can do is make sure everybody knows what's going on, and that you may not always say the right thing - and hope that everybody's cool about it.
Hi JJ,
First of all you are not guilty of anything! You haven't done anything wrong. I'm sorry you are going through this. And, I understand that he is feeling badly about himself but it's not OK to take that out on you.
The cognitive stuff is really difficult and it is embarrasing. On friday night I was wanting to tell everyone what I had seen when I suddenly couldn't put two words together. It wasn't 'word-scanning' it was something else. BUt, it made me feel bad and was embarrasing. Have you had a test of your cognition.
I agree with Sarah that your husband could benefit from 'cognitive behavioral therapy', it helps the client identify what their core belief is so they can deal with it.
Hugs
Red
t
I agree with Sarah that
First of all you are not guilty of anything! You haven't done anything wrong. I'm sorry you are going through this. And, I understand that he is feeling badly about himself but it's not OK to take that out on you.
The cognitive stuff is really difficult and it is embarrasing. On friday night I was wanting to tell everyone what I had seen when I suddenly couldn't put two words together. It wasn't 'word-scanning' it was something else. BUt, it made me feel bad and was embarrasing. Have you had a test of your cognition.
I agree with Sarah that your husband could benefit from 'cognitive behavioral therapy', it helps the client identify what their core belief is so they can deal with it.
Hugs
Red
t
I agree with Sarah that
JJ ..... it is sorry and sad to say that I have almost the same issue in my house. But, I don't get helpwith the missing stuff, I get shut down.
I am sorry that you are feeling like this, but sometimes we have to voice what is happening to us, and it hurts us to, so maybe they need to understand that. Even though they don't realize the they are doing things like that.................... they can't change it if they don't know what they are doing, and men don't picku up on alot of things....LOL
Don't feel guilty, feel stronger that you could say something, and stand firm and strong.......we are all here to back you up..
Hoping your day is better today,
Gentle hugs to you,
Candy xoxox
I am sorry that you are feeling like this, but sometimes we have to voice what is happening to us, and it hurts us to, so maybe they need to understand that. Even though they don't realize the they are doing things like that.................... they can't change it if they don't know what they are doing, and men don't picku up on alot of things....LOL
Don't feel guilty, feel stronger that you could say something, and stand firm and strong.......we are all here to back you up..
Hoping your day is better today,
Gentle hugs to you,
Candy xoxox
Isn't communication between "guys and dolls" grand? hahah
Totally understand, Supermum. Can you catch him in a vulnerable moment one where he "has" to listen to your side - tell him how you feel and he you? Sounds like you both need to get it all out w/out judgement on either part.
Wishing you just that special moment when the two planets align :)
(((Hugs)))
shell
Totally understand, Supermum. Can you catch him in a vulnerable moment one where he "has" to listen to your side - tell him how you feel and he you? Sounds like you both need to get it all out w/out judgement on either part.
Wishing you just that special moment when the two planets align :)
(((Hugs)))
shell
Don't feel guilty JJ as there should be no blame attached in what you have honestly shared in your post. I think that you clearly explained and understand your husband better than anyone. As you indicate, it would appear that he has self esteem issues and this has a knock on downward spiral effect where his perception of a situation keeps him stuck so there is no manoeuvre to disprove him.
I am guessing that he may not be open to the idea of counselling, but CBT would really help him as it is solution focussed and helps to put irrational thoughts to bed by providing evidence that someone's perception is perhaps not accurate. CBT looks at the link between thoughts, feelings and behaviour and if you can change the first part then the others change too.
So this is his problem and his responsibility but it is not helping you and this is why you have reached out to us, for suggestions as to what you can do when you have brain fog and word mix ups. First of all do not feel guilty about your outburst - you have a voice and feelings and in a relationship, two way communication is important. I sense that there are two problems here and forgive me if I have got it wrong. It would appear that you possibly do not want to talk too much about your cognitve difficulties, and your husband does not want to hear them and he gives off this message by using sarcasm as a defence which is hurtful to you and so you get stuck and things don't change. For anything to change in a relationship, something has to shift.
So perhaps try communication in a different way to him..perhaps try and write him a letter in a non threatening way and let him know how you feel (own what you say by using "I feel" and I suggest you don't say "you make me feel" ). He can read it in his own time and will not be able to react immediately in the way that he usually does. No-one can make you feel anything...we all have it within ourselves to choose to feel and react to others. I do not think your husband is intentionally meaning to hurt you, but rather he has got into the habit of taking things out on you as you have indicated because of his own personal self esteem issues.
I would encourage you to share your feelings about your cognitive problems with your family as the unspoken can often lead to misperceptions and it may help you in the long run..don't assume your family understand how it is for you.
Hope there is something in there that may help and hang in there JJ - all relationships have to be worked at.
With love and a big hug
Sarah x
I am guessing that he may not be open to the idea of counselling, but CBT would really help him as it is solution focussed and helps to put irrational thoughts to bed by providing evidence that someone's perception is perhaps not accurate. CBT looks at the link between thoughts, feelings and behaviour and if you can change the first part then the others change too.
So this is his problem and his responsibility but it is not helping you and this is why you have reached out to us, for suggestions as to what you can do when you have brain fog and word mix ups. First of all do not feel guilty about your outburst - you have a voice and feelings and in a relationship, two way communication is important. I sense that there are two problems here and forgive me if I have got it wrong. It would appear that you possibly do not want to talk too much about your cognitve difficulties, and your husband does not want to hear them and he gives off this message by using sarcasm as a defence which is hurtful to you and so you get stuck and things don't change. For anything to change in a relationship, something has to shift.
So perhaps try communication in a different way to him..perhaps try and write him a letter in a non threatening way and let him know how you feel (own what you say by using "I feel" and I suggest you don't say "you make me feel" ). He can read it in his own time and will not be able to react immediately in the way that he usually does. No-one can make you feel anything...we all have it within ourselves to choose to feel and react to others. I do not think your husband is intentionally meaning to hurt you, but rather he has got into the habit of taking things out on you as you have indicated because of his own personal self esteem issues.
I would encourage you to share your feelings about your cognitive problems with your family as the unspoken can often lead to misperceptions and it may help you in the long run..don't assume your family understand how it is for you.
Hope there is something in there that may help and hang in there JJ - all relationships have to be worked at.
With love and a big hug
Sarah x
hi!! yeh- hang in there man its not easy!! we go through alot of lol-dumb- stuff too, i think we are defensive because of this ms- but i cant read his mind either- plus i hhave gotten to a point where i know i am doing everything slower,its hatder and harder to get anything done-we have squirlls in the trees -lol i was telling him about one that looked like it flew tree to tree- but i said-flying turtle! where i got turtle-lol i dont have a clue!!
big hugs to you!! tick
big hugs to you!! tick
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Multiple Sclerosis Community
Top Neurology Answerers
Australia
ON
Queensland, Australia
Queen Creek, AZ
Find out how beta-blocker eye drops show promising results for acute migraine relief.
In this special Missouri Medicine report, doctors examine advances in diagnosis and treatment of this devastating and costly neurodegenerative disease.
Here are 12 simple – and fun! – ways to boost your brainpower.
Discover some of the causes of dizziness and how to treat it.
Discover the common causes of headaches and how to treat headache pain.
Two of the largest studies on Alzheimer’s have yielded new clues about the disease
