if you have health insurance

you migh feel our country cannot afford universal healthcare

if not you must wonder why not

[saveone]

I could not have said it better.

[yorkieville]

I would not want it, if our country offered it.

I have health insurance, and while it's not the best, it's far better than what Univeral Healthcare would do for me.

I feel everyone is entitled to health insurance, but I don't want to wait MONTHS to see a Neurologist, or any other kind of specialist.

Sheila

[MCBCON]

You seem to be repeating what is offered to us in the form of scare tactic politics.

I had health insurance for along time.  I met many folks on the streets of detroit who did not.  I never could understand why this injustice was allowed.

I lost my health insurance because I could no longer keep up with healthy folks in the job market.  I have not been able to afford disease modifying drugs and so I am getting worse much more quickly now.

The government rules for medicade and disablilty make very difficult to get help.  This is wrong.

[yorkieville]

No, I am not repeating what is offered in in the form of scare tactic politics.

I base my opinion on watching friends of mine in other countries, that have Universal Health Care wait months and months and months to see specialists.

I have a close friend in Germany, who most definitely has MS, diagnosed last summer, and cannot get an appointment with a Nero for another 8 months. In the meantime, she is progressing at an alarming rate.

I feel we need something far better than what they are offered.

I do agree with you, that our governments rule makes getting disability nearly impossible to be eligible. You bet it's WRONG. Case in point: close friend in New York had to struggle along, working for years, and all she could do was go to work and come home. They kept insisting; you can work, so you don't need disability. Where is the fairness in that analogy? She has finally gotten it, but she shouldn't have had to become this sick to receive it. Her life consists of laying on the couch. Been there, done that. Still barely get through my days.

I am very sorry you lost your health insurance.

But, I'd like to see you, and everyone else, get far better coverage.

We are supposed to be the most wealthy country and yet, we have people, homeless on our streets.

[labwrkr]

I'm sorry, but it's certainly a fair trade to have to wait a little longer for an appointment and have everyone covered.

Don't get me wrong, I love my health insurance that I have now. I can get my Rebif for $25 a month, when the insurance company is forced to pay $2300 for it. This is super convenient for me. But I am 25 years old. I want to go back to school and get a Master's or PhD. I am not really able to do this, because the minute I leave my job and go back to school, I'll have to apply for my own health insurance, and I just know I will get turned down or have awful premiums because my MS is now a pre-existing condition.

So, universal healthcare would be really appreciated by me in the near future, as well as the millions of Americans that just plain aren't covered right  now.

Did anyone see Sicko? I know it's Michael Moore, and he was biased, but I think that showed how good universal health care can be.

[essdipity]

I hate to see the forum get bogged down with arguments about politics. There are many other ways, and other sites, where we can debate this to our hearts' content if we want to. Here it just becomes a divisive issue and one with no ending. So my request is that this thread stop at this point.

Sending everyone good wishes,
ess

[uk2]

I come from a country with NHS and although there is alot of waiting it is also possible if you have jobs to get private health care so you have the option if you can afford it and i feel like alot of my friends in the USA that having this universal health along side your private health care would open up the people who cant afford health care and need help.

They wont take your already private health care away but they will open it up to people who cant afford it, is that not a good thing??

sam

[Heather3418]

It's awful that we live in a nation where people have to choose between buying their medications or eating.  If there was some way to have Universal Health Care that was properly managed, I would be all for it.

It really pains me to see my own daughter have to work so many hours overtime, to support her family and her very ill husband with Lupus, just to afford his medications that are not covered in full by Medicare and his supplement program.  Since her husband was diagnosed three years ago, they have had to file a bankruptcy, due to all the bills that insurance didn't pay.  There was just no other way.

I wish I had a solution....

Heather

[yorkieville]

ess,

I didn't realize I was "arguing". I was just stating my personal feelings. Didn't know that wasn't allowed here anymore. Guarantee, you won't hear a peep out of me on any subject again.

Although I have had several people tell me the forum has lost the "family feeling".

What a shame.

Sheila

Hi, Heather.

Yes, "properly managed" is the key element.

Sheila

[Heather3418]

Honey pie...don't you dare leave us.  I couldn't bear it.  You know how much you mean to me.  Don't let this push you away from the Forum.

I love you...please don't leave.

Huggie Wuggies,
Heather

[PastorDan]

I'll second Heather's motion.  I want all of you to stick around, no matter how much I might disagree with you on topics from politics, social policy, religion, and health care to pets, chili recipes, ecomomics, and board games.  I must now drag out and dust off my favorite old quote from George Burns: "It's too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair."  We might challenge one another now and again, but there must be hills in life, or we'll never learn to climb.

[PastorDan]

Not to mention spelling.

[saveone]

Okay I have to add my two cents for whatever it is worth.  I read back through the post.  I did not find anywhere that I felt a forum member was attempting to start an argument.  You are all saying the same thing just with different words.  You all don't want to see anyone suffer.  You find there are injustices that need to be righted.  And you all want the ability to choose.  Those who are happy with their insurance do not want to feel like they are having their choice taken away.  Those who don't have insurance or know someone they care about want themselves or those they care about to have an opportunity to have insurance.  We all agree that no one in this great country should ever be without, be it food, shelter, health care, or any other necessity. So please don't let anger get a grip.  You are all good ppl and you all care about each other.  Ess was simply afraid anger would surface and good ppl would be hurt.

We all wish we had a solution

terry

[essdipity]

Good heavens, Sheila, I was only asking that we stop this thread. I don't want you to leave!  We're all entitled to our opinions and to express them, but sometimes on the forum things get difficult. Within the last month this same discussion was going, and it ended when one of our very active, popular and helpful members quit in anger. I just don't want to see that happen again.

The forum has gotten very big, and maybe for that reason it's lost a 'family feeling,' though I personally haven't heard that from anyone. I don't want the kind of family atmosphere that includes squabbling. There's plenty of that elsewhere. I like the forum as a haven, where we know we can get support and information that helps us. I don't see how anyone can be helped by talking here about issues that we'll never have agreement about. So my request has nothing to do with me personally, but was made, I believe, for the good of the forum.

Please do continue to post. If people here want to have debates about politically charged subjects just count me out.

ess

[doublevision1]

No country has a perfect model for health care.  Each system has its advantages and disadvantages, and each country can and should learn from each other in this regard.

I feel sad for Michael and the situation he is in, and support his right to express his feelings about this here.  The members vent about all kinds of problems on this forum, mostly related to their MS or limbo status, but on other issues too.  Michael is in the predicament he is in, because of his MS and his lack of health care to cover his medical bills; what a terrible impact this has had on him financially.  It should always be OK for members to vent.  It should also be OK to disagree; obviously this is a diverse community and we will not all feel the same about such topics.  I hear where Essie is coming from, hoping to avoid this discussion from taking the same hostile tone that it has previously.  Seems we may have lost a second member of this forum.  I really don't get it, but so be it.

Being ill forces us to consider such matters which we might otherwise take for granted.   I took my health care for granted for the first 39 years of my life.  Now I value it highly, and feel lucky to live in a country where some of its citizens do not go bankrupt, lose their homes, and end up on the street because of lack of health insurance or health insurance that is not there for them when they need it.  I'm sure if I was born and raised in the U.S. (and was lucky enough to have health insurance), I would prefer that system.  It is a natural tendency to have a fear of the unknown, and to defend that which is familiar.  I understand Michael's reference to scare tactics, and am disappointed when assumptions and generalizations are put out there as fact.

For those who are interested in learning some important facts, check out:

www. michaelmoore. com/sicko/checkup/


Lastly, a note to Terry: good for you, for pointing out the common ground on this issue.  There has to be a better way, and people need to come together to figure it out.

[Lulu54]

Hi all,
It is so good to read you having a healthy debate about this issue.  Those of us in the states can't avoid it, because it is the current focus of our economic overhaul.  And yes, this healthy debate can take an ugly turn with the slightest misinterpretation of good intentions or the wrong choice of words.  I certainly hope that is not the case here.

The last conversation about the possible nationalization of our health care turned quite heated, and had a nasty bitter tone to it.  At that time Quix requested that political debates be reserved for political forums. There are plenty of places on the web that we can turn to for discussing public policy, religion and other moral and ethical issues being faced by everyone.

The last time I looked, even the closest of families have debates and disagreements.  I know mine certainly does.  But when that happens we work through those differences instead of turning back and walking away.  And sometimes we work through those differences best by setting the discussion aside and respecting each other's views and silently knowing that we disagree with them.  

I hope this all makes sense.

My best wishes to all,
Laura

[MCBCON]

Keep a posting.  Two cents keep adding up.

[MCBCON]

For folks without proper healthcare this subject is not a political issue.  It is as health related as copaxone vs. rebif.

[Quixotic1]

First off, I want to apologize to everyone that has thought that I do not want any discussions of any poilitical topic.  When I asked that the prior discussion be stopped, it was because it was already deteriorating into a "us vs. them" discussion.  The words - used similarly to epithets - "liberals," "right wing" and such, had already been used.  

I do believe that general political and religious and personal choice topics are not appropriate for a forum like this.  They are also topics for which there is no hope of convincing the "other side" so they are pointless and eventually hurtful.

I also believe strongly that the topic of universal (and timely) access to affordable healthcare is totally appropriate here, as we touch on it every day in one way or another.  I, myself, have opinions, fears, and hopes about the topic.

As a physician, I have ached for the many children I cared for who were uninsured.  I often knew that if I ordered the MRI that I so desperately needed to help diagnose a child, that I would possibly force a family into bankruptcy.  Or if I kept the child in the hospital for two more days like he really needed, that a parent would lose her job.  I would never support any healthcare system that left people out in the cold.

I have also feared a bureaucratic, bogged down system where the doctors were not able to make their own therapeutic decisions and the patients had no choice and long waits for medical care.

I believe there will be a middle ground.  All people have a right to quality medical care.  I believe that a program can be found that happily marries a private system with a guaranteed, possibly governmental system.  There are examples in the world of well-functioning government systems.  France and Australia come to mind.

I don't think our people would tolerate complete loss of autonomy in their healthcare.

So, I agree that this is a worthwhile discussion.  But, I see already that some words have become hot and some feelings hurt.  But, the discussion really has been without "labeling" or categorizing someone's thoughts as "liberal" or "right wing" so I feel this is a most appropriate discussion.

I apologize to everyone who felt that I was against discussing anything with political overtones.  When the topic is pertinent to our situations it is fine.  I just ask that all the discussions be as free as possible from partisan name-calling and that everyone realize that someone will always disagree with you.  Try to discuss such things without getting  your own feelings hurt.  No one here has meant to attack another person.

Please also realize that I do not own this forum.  I should not set the rules nor make anyone feel censored.  All of you are free to disagree with me.  Lulu, Shell and I not representatives of MedHelp.  We are volunteers who try to keep the forum healthy.  And, between us, we sometimes disagree.  Please also realize, that MedHelp has official moderators who monitor all discussions.  Those that get volatile or hurtful are deleted by the Moderators.

Quix

[PastorDan]

Wise words once again, young lady.

Perhaps the topic of health care costs and coverage, being much broader than that of MS, neurology, or any of the other special situations with which we deal, should go into a more general category on MedHelp?  I haven't even looked to see if there is such a place, but as important as the discussion will be in days ahead, it seems like a very appropriate place for MedHelp's members to try "Finding Cures Together™".

[Heather3418]

Health care is an EXTREMELY important topic.  It is VITAL to anyone that has a medical disorder, from Cancer all the way down to a vitamin deficiency and less.  Especially when they cannot afford health insurance for themselves or their family's.  Health care costs can ruin a family financially.  You cannot possibly understand the lack of not having it, until it hits your family and your loved ones.

This is on many peoples minds and is devastating lives.  What better way to way to vent our frustrations than to come on this medical forum and discuss this?  

What I feel we have to do, along with others in our nation, is fight for health care for EVERYONE.  I believe that is what Michael's post was all about.

Since we are fighting alot of ailments on this Forum, I think the discussion is vitally important.  When people sit down to discuss such matters, alot can be accomplished to by throwing our thoughts out there and passing them along to our Senators and Representatives.  This just isn't an MS Forum, it's a Medical Forum.

As long as all of this can be discussed without battling each other, it is a fair and right thing to talk about in this format..  Many people are extremely depressed, trying to figure out how to pay the next medical bill.  I'm afraid that if something is not done soon by our government, there will be less and less people who will be able to afford going to the doctor.  This may lead to more and more deaths from very preventable illnesses.  This is not just about adults, this is about small children and babies, also.

It's a shame that politics seems to always jump to the forefront of these kinds of discussions.  Without putting blame on Democrats or Republicans, let's work together as a united people.  There really may be one person among us that has the answer.  You never know until you talk about it.

When I was a Community Leader along with Quix, we never tried to mute anyone.  We only sought to keep the discussion on course, without any hurt feelings or mud slinging.

If there are any hurt feelings from this thread, it's time to forgive and give each other a huge hug....we are all in this together.  If you have medical insurance today, thank God you can afford it.  If you don't have any insurance, due to disability or loss of a job, then I weep for you.  It's devastating.....It's truly life-altering.

All the Best to everyone,
Heather

[yorkieville]

First of all, I thank MCBCON for encouraging me to post. Your PM was greatly appreciated.

Michael, I think that was very kind of you, and I think you understood what I was attempting to say. I'll say it again, as clearly as I can: I want BETTER for EVERYONE than what I have witnessed of UHC.  I have some real concerns about UHC, and I have very legitimate reasons for my fears, but I am afraid to post them, because I do not wish to begin a political debate. I agree with you, I didn't think of it as a political issue, but one of health care. Actually, I didn't intend to start a "debate" of any kind. I just wanted to voice my opinion.

Quix. I thank you for your post. I haven't been in here in quite awhile, so I am not familiar with the "us. vs. them" discussion. I'm relieved to know you feel this is a worthwhile discussion.

For the years that I have been a member, every thread I have posted in, I have always felt it was "we are all in this together".

I have always felt this was our "safe place" to discuss things, with respect for one another. I felt I had stated my feelings, with respect for Michael. I HATE that he has lost his health insurance.

Terry: Thank you so much for seeing that no one was attempting to start an argument. (Least of all, ME.)

Steph: please go back and read every single one of my posts and find one that I have ever been argumentative. I am not that kind of person. So, I stated I felt that the forum had changed and I did not feel it was ok to state an opinion any longer. I wasn't "leaving" because of "hurt" feelings, I just felt that if you felt the need to "End a thread" simply because I stated my feelings, that I didn't feel there was any point to being here.  I did not feel, that anyone was being argumentative. I have enjoyed being  a member because we were able to express our feelings.  I absolutely do not want it to turn into an argument. Arguing gets us nowhere. I'd like the "We are all in this together" feeling, to prevail.

To all: Believe me, I am just as frustrated with the medical care as anyone. Things are such a mess in our country. My brother-in-law has been out of work  for months. (Again!)So, my he & sister and my neices and nephews are without health insurance. They lost their home. If he doesn't find work soon, they will be living with us.

Heather: I love you, too Sweetheart. Thank you for recognizing that this subject is vitally important. I have that stack of medical bills sitting on my desk, and I am trying to figure out how to pay them. They cut Rich's pension and changed our insurance plan benefits.


Pastor Dan: Thank you for the PM. I like your attitude.:)

In another thread, I'd like to tell everyone something I accomplished with "a lot of help from my friends". (sorry couldn't resist, a long time Beatles fan. LOL)

I love all of you.

I am sorry that anyone thought my opinion was meant to start an argument.

(((HUGS)))
Sheila

[LLWB]

First of all Sheila, I'm glad you won't leave us, I agree with a lot of your views. I too only work and come home. My drs and physical therapists have told me I won't get better unless I quit work. I can't quit work because I need my health insurance. So I just struggle on.  On the weekends I don't have the energy to do anything. My sum total yesterday was half hr in groc store, and two loads of clothes. I use to help run 60 acres, lots of tractor work, ride my horse, work cows, plus my job.  I couldn't do that now. In fact I sold everything and moved into a Condo after my husband died, because I knew I couldn't do it. That caused a lot of heartache, on top of grieving. I lost the peace and serenity of living in the country on a dead end road, close to nature and my God. I try to plan things now, and when the time comes, have to cancel my plans, because I have no energy. Our country has to start taking better care of it's citizens. Is there a lot of fraud in our system? Yes. But it shouldn't be so hard to get disability. We pay thru our withholding taxes, then can't get it when we need it. If I didn't have to work, maybe I could do a few things I enjoy. People look at me strangly when I use my disabled sticker. Visually I look fine.  I have often wished they could live in my body for 1 week.   I want a full body transplant! LOL Sorry for the rant, this topic really hits close to home.

Maggie

[yorkieville]

Hi, Maggie.

Thank you.  ess sent me a message and I realized I misunderstood. I guess I don't get in here often enough to keep up with things anymore. The computer bothers my eyes.

Maggie, I cannot begin to tell you how frustrated I am with our government that they make it impossible for people that need Disability & Medicaid to get it.

You are in the same position as a close friend of mine. She had to become so sick, that she has no quality of life anymore, before she was granted Disability.

This is just plain WRONG.

I am so sorry that your husband passed away. And then, to have to sacrifice your home, is adding insult to injury. It was the one place you probably  felt half-way human. That makes my heart ache, because I love the tranquility of the country and I am no longer able to ride the tractor either. I cannot even walk our property any longer. I need absolutely level ground.

I understand how you feel. People look at me oddly, too, sometimes. I look fine except for the fact that at 5'2, I weigh 74#s.

Rant away! I'll rant right along with you!

Sheila

Our country absolutely has to start taking better care of our citizens.

[yorkieville]

Hi, Steph.

Thanks for the message. I DID misunderstand, and I wanted everyone to know, I misunderstood.

Sheila

[essdipity]

Yes, a misunderstanding, now cleared up, I'm happy to say.

All's well that ends well.

ess

[yorkieville]

I think this speaks volumes that our "forum family" is still in tact.

Families have problems and work them out.

Sheila

[opie74]

I am soooooo happy that I missed this one the first time around!  We all have enough troubles.  I usually don't fimd it too healthy do dwell on something that I can not change.  The only person to whom I complain in those situations is the person/persons that cna change it.  E-mail your congessman and let them know how you feel.  Pray for a solution.  But dewlling on and heated discussion of such topics does not make any of us feel better.  That is my 2 cents.

[MCBCON]

sometimes we need to vent.  but, it does makes sense to talk to everyone.  when everyone hears something the information begins to be disseminated .  Some folks even start to take notice.

[jensequitur]

One of the benefits of being online is it's like a big giant conversation across the globe - many people can weigh with their 2¢ - or 2¥ - and have their opinions heard.

I was saddened to see Elaine (monotreme) leave this forum, because I wanted to hear what she had to say about the topic.  She did post some interesting articles on the Canadian health care system - many are advocating the addition of a private healthcare industry to the public healthcare system.  I think we could do the same here in the US - add a public healthcare system to our already existing private healthcare industry.  Without competition, the healthcare industry has been raising its rates, and my insurance costs twice as much as it did five years ago.  And I'm not making any more money!  In fact, my company's reducing wages to keep from firing anybody, so I'll lose the raise I got last year.  That plus a couple of wage freezes, and I might actually be making less than I was five years ago.

But sadly this is one of those hot-button topics that gets everybody all riled up.  It's hard to have a real conversation about this, because it's become like abortion, or stem cell research.  Everybody starts pointing fingers and getting all red in the face.

[MCBCON]

There really is no reason for this to be a hot topic.  When people are in need we just help.  That is what every religion teaches.  That is what our forefathers/mothers taught us.

This topic is being called political.  It is not political.  I would think it is a moral issue.

We have to somehow come up the drugs or my wife will  die;  How is that a political issue.  For me it is a hot topic.

[jensequitur]

I agree - it's not political at all.  It affects every one of us.  If I didn't have health insurance, my husband would be dead right now.  Pretty scary, huh?

[MCBCON]

hope you did not feel I was pointing my comment to you.  I was simply being emotional.

[jensequitur]

not at all, honey - just want you to know that this is one of MY most important issues right now.  Especially with the talk around here about my company possibly going out of business.

[yorkieville]

Michael,

I agree with you 100% This IS a moral issue.

Can you go to your church and ask for financial help with getting the medications that your wife needs?

Perhaps they would be willing to do a Benefit Dinner to raise the funds.

You can also write directly to the drug companies. Many will provide the medications at no cost.

There has to be a solution.  I will pray for a solution.

Sheila

[MCBCON]

Our church has already helped us twice.  They cannot keep paying though.