10 weeks post 3 level ACDF

[dbea10]

10 weeks post 3 level ACDF

Hi All

I had a 3 level ACDF on January 17, 2007 and I am now in physiotherapy. My only question is when can I smoke again!!!!!!!!!!

I have been back for my post-op and everything looked good on the xray, the surgeon let me wean off of the Aspen collar I was wearing from day one. I also went back to work 12 days after surgery, keeping in mind all I do is sit at a desk all day with the opportunity to get up and move around at will.
I have zero pain, the only thing that is left is pins and needles in my finger tips.

Debbie

[Forum-M.D.-SH]

First of all, keep in mind that I am unable to diagnose you because I am unable to examine you, this forum is for educational purposes.  
    It is good to hear that your are doing so well from your surgery.  I do have bad news for you (but good news for your health), you should never smoke again.  This is not a sermon, I have practical reasons for you.  Smoking causes vasocontriction and inhibits your bodies ability to heal (of the fusions that fail, many are due to smoking).  Thus it is very improtant in the post-operative period that you stop smoking.  There are a number of ways to help relive the stress of not smoking such as nicotine patches/gum/lozenges and medications such as Zyban.  Smoking involves both a chemical addiction to nicotine and the behavioral addiction to the practice of smoking (taking breaks with colleages/ the comforting feel of the routine,etc).  The chemical addiction is usually easier to overcome, but in time of stress people often relapse back into smoking.  Having the cervical fusion has forced you to quit at least temporarily, and it may be the thing that adds 10-20 years on your life.  Smoking is terrible for your general health and greatly increases your risk for heart disease, lung cancer and stroke to name a few.  I would view this as an oppertunity to improve your health and do what ever is needed to not restart smoking.
I hope this has been helpful.

[JohnyH]

Glad you are doing well!....  I had a single level around the same time and I am in still a great deal of pain.   Having basically serious range of motion issues as well.

I had no collar,  no plates or  screws,   There seems to be a many ways this whole ACDF thing is done.   Every doctor I had a consult with had a seperate treatment plan as well as revcovery instructions.     I choose a doctor who was the director of a university spine center so  I have to hope he knows his stuff!

My doc thought smoking had little impact in my case.   Now I only had a single level and I am a 35 y/o male.    I have yet to have xrays post op.   They will do mine around mid April.  

Hope all continues well for you!!  If your off smoking stay there!!!!!   I have been on and off since but if you can take it don't smoke!!!   They do know that smoking has an impact on the healthy discs you have.  It has been shown to dry them out.   After a 3 level ACDF I would really consider to never smoke again if you can!   Good luck and hope for your continued success!

[bev62]

I agree with JohnyH, I am 5 months post-op of a two level ACDF and I'm still in terrible pain.  I've never smoked, but that can slow the healing process, so I wouldn't take any chances.  If you've gone 10 weeks I would try to hang in there.  It's great to hear that someone has had a successful ACDF.

[Annie62]

dbea,

If you have managed to go 10 weeks without a cigarette, then you should pretty much have it kicked-forever.  Why not take advantage of that fact-you have already made it this far-and make the decision and committment never to smoke again?  Not sure how it affects your postsurgical healing, but I know you'd be doing your heart and lungs a huge favor.  Hope you can manage it.  I know when I quit I felt pretty confident after one week that I would continue to not smoke-it got easier every single day-, so after 10 weeks I would think you would have little trouble not going back to it if you would choose that route.  Good luck.  

[dbea10]

Thank you all for your comments it and will do my best to stay quit.

I am sorry to hear of your pain JohnyH and Bev62  I hope you are feeling better very soon.

Debbie

[JCmcc]

The smoking thing hits home. When people tell me, "you should quit" or "Did you know that smoking kills?" I look them dead in the eye and say, "Thank you. I did not ascend to this position by being stupid."

Haha

I love to smoke. I know that it is bad, but, American Consumptionism allows no one to rant and rave. Obesity, drug addiction, alcoholism, food addiction-EVERYONE IS PRETTY MUCH ADDICTED TO SOME BAD FOR YOU SOURCE!

Live! When you, and only you are ready-you will quit.

It drives me nuts.

[Annie62]

Of course everyone who smokes loves to smoke.  All addicts "love" what they do.  That's why they keep doing it year after year after year.  I loved it, too--and now I regret it greatly.  Some people love it so much that even when they go to the doctor with a cough and get diagnosed with Stage IV lung cancer they *still* continue to smoke.  In my case, getting sick 13 years ago with an undiagnosed illness is what led me to quit.  I was too scared to keep smoking or to continue to take my health for granted as I had prior.

And women are even more susceptible than men to the effects of smoking-research proves that.  The problem with lung cancer is that it's almost always Stage IV/metastatic when it's dxd, and most people will die, and quickly at that.  It also kills those who do not choose to smoke but are exposed to second-hand smoke.  Where is the justice in that?

I think smoking should be outlawed.  Nicotine is a drug that kills and the big tobacco company whores are making billions off of selling disability and death to millions of addicted Americans.  How's that for "ranting and raving?"  

[JCmcc]

Actually: pretty damned good. :)

[patsy10]

You go girl!!

[pneeb419]

JC - this time I have to agree with you.  I have been smoking probably longer than Annie's been alive.  I just had a physical and with the exception of my MS, am in perfect health.  For how long?  I don't know, but I am not going to worry about it. While I cannot say I LOVE smoking, I do enjoy it and as long as I am conscience about not exposing non-smokers to my second hand smoke (which I am) I get pretty tired of people telling me that I shouldn't because it kills.....duh!!  So does getting hit by a bus. So does jumping off a 10 story building.  But I don't hear anyone campaigning to stop making buses or 10 story buildings.  There may be some smokers who are stupid people who need to be told that smoking could kill them.  But then there are a lot stupid people out there who don't smoke too.  Maybe they should just be told to stop being stupid.  And while we're on the subject, does anyone have any idea just what kind of harmful chemical fumes they are exposing themselves to each time they put fuel into their vehicles?  But hey....I guess that's okay.  Leave us smokers alone and we'll do our best to keep your lungs free of our bad habit so that you can fill them up with the hundreds of other particles floating in the air.  Second hand smoke is NOT the only thing that causes lung cancer.....

Okay....off my soap box.....and dbea.....I think it's great that you quit and I encourage you to not start again but only if it's what YOU want.  If YOU want to light up again...go for it.

[Quixotic1]

Ok, my 2 cents worth.  The data is IN on the effects of SMOKE (not nicotine) on the smoker and the innocents who may be forced to breathe it.  Rant all you want, smoke all you want, but KEEP IT AWAY from others!  As a retired pediatrician, 2nd hand smoke cripples and kills. I've seen premies in carbon monoxide coma from chain-smoking parents.  I've watched kids gasping (and dying) from asthma exacerbated by their mom's smoking.  I lost a colleague to the lung cancer his smoking wife didn't get.  Her grief then killed her.  I have hundred's of these examples from my own career alone. I spent 25 years watching it and treating the results.  I like to drink water, but I don't spit it in other's faces.  Having a "no-smoking" section in any place except outdoors is like having a "no-peeing zone" in a swimming pool.

If there is good data that smoking has played a role in your illness, why would you ever undergo the treatment if you intend to resume the behavior?  Whatever got you through the detox period, use it to find substitute for the wonderfully pleasurable habit you miss.  Yes, the habit is what you miss and that can be a very strong desire.  The nicotine is long out of your system.

Whatever you choose, be clear that you're choosing it for yourself because "you wanna", not deluding yourself with the excuses made by Big Tobacco.

That aside good luck to all of you who have faced these decisions.  I am amazed at the suffering and the strength I have seen on these boards.  

[AMO]

my   father in law died of bladdder cancer caused by ... smoking. Smmmokers have twice the risk develope bladdder canccer than non-smokers.

[Annie62]

Thank you, Patsy :)

Pnee, actually "Annie" is 44, so if you have been smoking longer than she has been alive, you might well have something to worry about, as that is a long time to have smoked.  And the analogy to the 10-story building and buses isn't a good one.  That sounds very reminiscent of gun proponents' "logic" that guns don't kill, people do.  Cigarettes exist solely to be smoked, guns exist to be fired (maim/kill), but buildings and buses exist not for the purpose of being jumped off of or jumped in front of.  They have other uses/serve other purposes.  What beneficial purpose do cigarettes serve?  It's just not the same thing.  

[alchris]

Sure just one more comment on smoking its JUST PLAIN HORRIBLE and I dont think people who smoke know just how horrible and plus they smell like ashstrays.  SORRY but its true.  By the way yes, smoking is an addiction just like food, aclochol, drugs, etc.  THE thing is people need food to survive the rest of the harmful aforementioned they dont.  So people just cant give up food and live but you can quit tobacco and other habits and still live, much better lives too.  But what I really want to say is you quit smoking this long stay off of it.  My dad has so many problems from smoking, he has high blood pressure, heart failure and emphsema.  He is on so much medication including oxygen 24 hours a day.  Why would someone want to smoke knowing they are adding to the decline of the body.  I see my father who gets out of breath just talking and it is heartbreaking.

[Annie62]

I'm sorry about your father's emphysema.  It most definitely is heartbreaking to watch someone you love struggle to breathe.  My grandfather (a smoker) died of lung cancer over 30 years ago and my sister-in-law's father (also an ex-smoker) just died a couple of months ago from emphysema-a lot of heartbreak that could have been prevented.  I also have a brother (who never smoked and never took his health or life for granted) who is-just barely-an ARDS survivor after a horrendous car accident 10 years ago.  He struggles to breathe due to the scarring in his lungs and the toll it is taking on his heart.  He does everything he can-gets on his exercise bike and rides it every day-trying to preserve what's left of his life.  I also have a sister who is going to die of metastatic breast cancer.  I am not looking forward to the day she starts to struggle to breathe.  

Breathing, understandably, is something most people take for granted until they can't do it well anymore.  Getting sick myself and what I have been through physically/mentally, my brother's accident and now my sister becoming ill are more than enough for me to never take my health/life (however imperfect) for granted again.  Life is a gift you don't always get to keep as long as you had planned.

[alchris]

Hi Annie thanks for your words for my dad.  I am so sorry to hear about your problems in your life and the people in it.  I know how hard it is to deal with illnesses and famlly members physical and mental health problems.  I myself have been going to doctor after doctor trying to find out whats wrong with me but keep being brused off time and time again.  So to deal with oneself plus the lives of others is heartbreaking.  Nothing is more important than health it makes up ones life and to add to creating problems I will never understand.  

[Annie62]

Hi Alchris,

Thank you, also, for the kind words.  Since you are dealing with undiagnosed neuro/health problems you must also know what it is like to not feel so great  yourself while having to deal with the stress of those you care about being ill--it's a lot sometimes to have to contend with.  I hope your father is able to live for many more years in spite of his emphysema and other health problems.  

In my case, my sister actually is still feeling fine, so it is not as though I have the stress of helping to care for a sick sibling or anything (as it sounds like you might be helping to care for your father), it is mainly dealing with the anxiety and dread of things to come.  My brother, on the other hand has been slowly going down hill for 10 years since his accident--that has been even more devastating for me because I have always been closest to him.  My sister was actually dxd with early-stage breast cancer in Aug. of '05 and had a good prognosis, but because of her religious beliefs--she believes God is going to heal her--she has refused all medical intervention (has not even had the mastectomy).  My other sister (also an evangelical Christian) supports what she is doing, but the rest of my family is devastated by all of this.  She has basically cut herself off from us (we're not allowed to even talk to her about it/her husband told my father he didn't want me or my mother coming to their house anymore because we tried to intervene, and he doesn't want us "influencing her" or shaking her belief in God.  I won't even say what I think about him, as it might get me kicked off the forum.

I can't remember your posts at the moment-can't remember what your symptoms were--but I hope your doctors stop brushing you off and figure out what is making you sick.  I'll go back and read some of your posts.  I am always interested to hear what is going on with other people.  I also learn from everyone who posts on here, not just the doctors.  So don't give up on pursuing a diagnosis.  You know what is normal for you and what is not and don't need an MD to make that assessment.  I spent almost 13 years trying to find out what was wrong with me (actually had my first set of symptoms 17 years ago).  I have to say, though, the most you can hope for even if you do get a dx is that it is a relatively benign process and that there is treatment available for it.  Not all things are treatable and even when something is given a name it doesn't always make all that much difference.  I was just dxd-finally-with autoimmune autonomic neuropathy at Mayo (although I am not convinced that is all I have, as it doesn't cover all my symptoms), but post-diagnosis I am no better off than before I was told what it was!  There seems to be only treatment for the symptomatic stuff-nothing to stop the disease itself--except, I think, during a crisis/real exacerbation.  Nobody even knows what the hell it is!  It's not like MS, which everyone has heard of.  I called a new neurologist the other day to make an appointment and had to repeat it three times before the secretary knew what i was saying.  She kept saying, "What's that middle word again?"  

Anyway, I hope you get a proper/accurate diagnosis soon and you don't have anything seriously wrong with you.  Sorry about the venting.  I'd be in therapy talking to someone if I could still afford it, but I can't and so I guess I'm using this board instead :)

[alchris]

Hi Again,

So sorry again for our family stresses,  

Thanks for my dad I hope the same thing too for your sister.  Sorry too about your brother especially when close it makes things harder.  Its okay to vent we all need it and sometimes a strangers ear is better than a relative.  Well I would be devasted if it were my sister, especially relying on the unknonw.  I am not here to knock ones faith but sometimes the answer is in front of us at we have to take the care thats being offered.  i was never much a believer in the higher power, but I beleive that if people truly believe in GOD than they should surely beleive GOD put people here and gave them the ablilty thru medical science to heal.  So for me its a little hard not to have a doctor try and help especially when they can.

As for me for over three years now I have been going to doctors with 24 hour headaches (yes they never disappear) and a distinct pressure that sits on the right side of my head where I can actually feel fluid release from.  It drains into my ears and causes, pain, ringing and fullness and then my head takes on a wavy feeling.  If you could believe how many tests I have had I feel like I know how to read films and reports.  The odd thing is that on each and every test without and much brighter with contrast there is a spot that shows up on the right side of my auditroy canal.  I have heard every reason for the spot from an earring to somthing floating above the ear on the lens.  The last one I heard was maybe it was the injection sight of the contrast dye.  When I asked the doctor how is that possible when they inject you in your arm.  I just had anohter test showing adhesions and fluid in the sinsus but the last doctor said it was nothing.  So now I am off again to another doctor.  I am not sure how my sinsuses now could show filled with fluid (which I have been telling doctors) and scar tissue and it still be nothing. Dont know where the scar tissue came from because I was never operated on my sinsues.  So I know somehing is going on. I wish I was a doctor so if I self diagnosed another doctor would take me serioulsy.  On top of this it has been extra stressful my husband came home one day last week and said he couldnt see out of one eye.  After one emergency visit and two doctors we finally found one yesterday in NY who is a retina specialist who diagnosed my husband with a leaking vessel in the eye which causes what he has.  Though I was extremly relieved to find out it wasnt macular degeneration.   his condition can take up to four months for him to get his vision back if that doesnt work he would need surgery to correct the leaking.

take care,

[Annie62]

Have you tried to get in a question to the forum neurologist?  I don't know what to tell you.  If the MRI is really highlighting something in your auditory canal, and that is where you believe the problem might be, then I would take your films with you to the next doctor and ask point-blank what they think the spot on films is, and then tell them what you think it might be in relation to your symptoms and from your research.  It seems like you have something going on that shouldn't be that hard to diagnose and maybe can be fixed if someone would just try to put it all together.  The problem is trying to get a doctor to take the time to make sense of it all--it's always five minutes here, five minutes there, and nobody (the doctors) communicate with one another.  If you have been having daily headaches/ringing, etc., for three years, maybe you should take your films to a good university hospital, Cleveland Clinic or Mayo.  Possibly they would order more specialized tests (if there are any) to decipher what is going on.  I hope someone figures it out.  Nobody likes to be in pain all the time.  Could it be some kind of cyst in there if you feel a fluid-draining sensation in your head?  What do you think is causing your symptoms?

[alchris]

Hi

Did post a while back but the doctors answer really was not helpful.  I actually find the people sometimes are more helpful and informative.  I have showed the areas in question to doctor anfter docotr and have gotten the most ridicoulous answers as to what they can be.  Plus they get quite annoyed.  Not sure why but the doctors should understand that people need to be there own advocate especially with there health and the patient knows whats wrong with their body.  that is why we go to doctors.  The last doctor told me big deal you have four exrays that all show something on the right side of the head its not your problem go see a threapist.  funny thing the ct scan I just had showed that there was fluid build up in all my sinuses (which is what I keep telling doctors that I actually feel the fluid) I was told it means nothings.  Odd thing is I am going to doctors in NY at some of the best hospitals, I guess that means nothing.  It also showed a build of scar tissue which should be impossible becusase I never had surgery on the sinuses.  So I am off to finding another doctor.  I realize its very sad that a doctor thinks everything is related to stress, what they dont realize that its stressful going to doctors trying to find an answer.  I know the answer is right in my films but cant seem to get the right diangosis.  It doenst make sense to me to show an abnormal amount of fluid in the sinuses and have a doctor say its nothing.