Anxiety or something worse?

[DetGuy]

I have been suffering from anxiety issues.About a little over a month ago,I had a severe panic attack,but recently,its been more in the line of generalized anxiety.After that,I was fine but had a general sense of malaise for about a week and some tension headaches.In trying to figure out what was wrong with me (some horribe things ran across my mind,including aneurysms),I accidentally ran across a site and article about MS.This scared me to hell.I can't get MS out of my head.Soon I started having various neurological symptom.These symptoms also shift.It started with prickling feelings in the fingertips, then right arm,then left arm,then across the body.The pricks were not very localized,but as if I was getting poked by needles.That led to a pain in my left elbow,later my right elbow.Both times,the pain (like a burning) starts at the elbow and then radiates.After that, I started having the same sensation in both knees, also radiating. After about a week,the prickling left,but I woke up in the middle of the night a couple of times,with that burning-like pain.Finally,this stops,but I started having this sensation that my muscles in my legs were trembling (not visible, but I can feel it).The next day, this turned into (the best term I can describe it as) a buzzing sensation in both legs.I seemed to only notice it when I sit down or rest.Now even the tension and stiff neck is gone, but not the feelings in the lower part of my legs.This has been a little over a month of changing symptoms. None of them have been to the point that I couldnt go about my daily routine, however. Help?

[CCF-Neuro-M.D.-CS]

Your symptoms are very complex. However symptoms related to MS typically last several days to weeks, and do not shift as quickly as you have described. Stress can cause all of the symptoms you are descrtibing. However, it would be best for you to see your primary doctor or a neruologist to discuss these symptoms. They will be able to examine you and determine if you have neurologic dysfunction. Based on there evaluation testing can then be recommended.

[tomy7]

Your obsessiveness about your health seems quite obviously an anxiety related issue.  After all, your symptoms only seem to happen after you put a thought in your head.  You should seek professional help to alleviate the anxiety which would probably include some form of anti-depressants.  Your symptoms are very typical of psychogenic ones.  Don't diagnose yourself on the internet. Period.

I refer you to this site.

http://www.zdnet.com/datafeed/washtech/web/0420_health_1.html

[kael]

If you read other posts by Tomy, you'll find that he/she suggests everything is imagined, anxiety and that if you have physical symptoms, the best cure is to go on anti-depressants.  I for one, checked out the sight that was referenced, and I agree that one can get freaked out by surfing the net for terrible possibilities, however, I believe that a trip to the doctor would for a thorough exam would be a better solution than just heading for the psychiatrist for some anti-depression medication - which, by the way can be addicting and has many undesirable side effects.

Your doctor is the one who should reassure you.  Tomy suggests not to diagnose yourself on the internet (wise) but then offers to do the same for you without having ever examined you.

[DetGuy]

By the way, when I say that these symptoms happened, they were very fleeting. They would come at certaintimes during the day, then leave. This happened in conjunction with some anxiety symptoms I was/is having, tight muscles, lump in the throat, tension headaches, palpitations...At any rate, can someone tell me if those prickling and burning sensationssound like MS. I never had any weakness, fatigue, coordination or visual issues. I have been away from home working (internship) in another state for the summer so seeing a doctor has been difficult. I hope to see my physician when I get home soon.

[kael]

Hi - didn't want you to misunderstand what I said before.  I'm not saying that your symptoms can't be anxiety related, they certainly can - but I just hate it when the instant assumption is "oh, it's just anxiety."  Have it checked out by a doc.  Good Luck!

[tomy7]

According to the poster, he has panic attacks.  According to the poster, he is obsessed about having a monstrous disease.  According to the poster, he only started getting these symptoms until after he absorbed the stuff on the internet.  Of course, if he feels that it will make him more comfortable he should have a full examination if that makes him feel better.  That's not the point.  I am going by his history and my own experience which is vast.

I don't tell everyone that what they have is anxiety driven.  I only state this to the people that I think are having anxiety driven symptoms.  Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean that you must denegrate mine.

I have read some of your posts and I believe that you are here because you have had a dozen doctors that can't diagnose you and you are waiting for or have found one that finally says what you want to hear.  I pointed him to that article because I would rather have him identify with people who realize that they are most likely fighting a different problem, rather than accepting and getting sympathy for something that probably doesn't exist outside of anxiety symptoms.

Of course, there are people with real diseases, however, I am writing a paper on the fact that very few of them actually frequent boards like this.  I am a psychotherapist in NYC.  The reason I am here is to research this paper and interact some, albeit anonymously.  My specialty is psychogenic illness of patients or the partners.  So believe it or not, I am the expert here.

I am not out to fight with anyone nor to tell anyone not to see a doctor.  but...in practice, when all the doctors say "no"...that's when I start saying "yes".

I often work with doctors.  I didn't wish to go in such detail but I just wanted to let you know that my advice is not frivolous, nor is it arbitrary.  I will not be around much longer doing this...and you may then have free reign to only apply your viewpoint.

[AMO]

Dear Tomy7,
I have read with a chuckle about your post, and for the purpose of your paper decided to write in.
I guess i am one of the few who indeed have an organic illness and who read the posts VERY regular.
It was in my search for a diagnosis that took almost 3 years i would read because many of what gets posted is what i experience and put reasons to what was happening. And i have enjoyed the reads.
During that corse i traveled across country and i saw probaly 5 neurologists, two who which told me that i must have underlying psychogenic tendancy to be so many symptoms when tests were not coming up with enough in black and white on paper.One who is 'tops' in his field of neuromusclar diseases told me to stop surfing the net, be happy with who i am and that my symptoms would go away. I even so much did not tell them ALL my symptoms for fearing.  I was blessed to have my doctor who did not stop and kept to refering me to others and did not give up or i may be getting wrong treatment for a psychiatric problem that does not exsist. I read about conversion disorder(yes reading the web when i was told not to <lol>)and at many times i thought i must be crazy because so much would fit and how could so many doctors be wrong?
Well that happens sometimes i guess. I was diagnosed with a rare disease called Cerebellar Ataxia.
I did not mean to butt in, but i thought i could put my 2 cents in because this thread was so close to my story.
I wish you well on your paper and i hope it gives true accounts on the subject.

And to Detguy~ i hope you feel well soon, anxiety can be debilatating and a crummy thing to be going through. There are reason why you have your problems and i hope they can be figured out one way or another.
keeping faith,
AMO

[DetGuy]

Kael,

I understood what you were saying. I just wanted to clarify everything that I was feeling. By the way, i'm a 21 yr old african american  male if this help any. I just wanted to know if hat I was feeling in line with MS. I know I should stop the incessant worry but it's difficult.

[manytingles]

I am in a very similar situation as you -- email me "***@****" to chat about it.

[tomy7]

Glad to hear that you were persistent in finding the cause of your symptoms.  Ataxia is normally associated with loss of balance, a symptom that is not usually associated with severe anxiety.  Symptoms such as tight muscles, lump in the throat, tension headaches, palpitations are highloy inferential of an anxiety base.

Use of anti-depressants are dependent upon history and combination of symptoms.  I often use relaxation technicques and biofeedback.

I have had several patients who with generalized benign fasciculations.  Through relaxation techniques, positive thinking and self-hypnosis they were able to totally stop every single one in minutes in my office....lengthening time and then extending the techniques at home with the possible addition of medication often did the trick.

As for staying of the internet, it's still recommended for a change of focus...the internet addiction is part of the obsessive nature of the problem.  

Glad you are satified with your results.

[tomy7]

Same comments with a spell check!

Glad to hear that you were persistent in finding the cause of your symptoms. Ataxia is normally associated with loss of balance, a symptom that is not usually indicative of severe anxiety. Symptoms such as tight muscles, lump in the throat, tension headaches, palpitations are highly inferential of an anxiety-based illness.

Use of anti-depressants are dependent upon history and combination of symptoms. I often use relaxation technicques and biofeedback as a first choice.

I have had several patients who have generalized benign fasciculations (twitches all over their body). Through relaxation techniques, positive thinking and self-hypnosis they were able to totally stop every single twitch in minutes in my office....lengthening time and then extending the techniques at home with the possible addition of medication often did the trick long-term.

As for staying off the internet, it's still recommended for a change of focus...the internet addiction can become part of the obsessive nature of the problem.

Glad you are satified with your results.

[DetGuy]

I'm quite confident that I am suffering from anxiety.

I want to know if the neurological symptoms are in line with MS or can this be a result of anxiety. I feel many of these symptoms when I am not anxious or stressed. That's what worries me. Then again, i'm constantly thinking of my health, hyper-attentive to every little thing I feel.

Every other day it seems like something new (including today!). The head pains I had earlier are back (can this be related?) and now I have some discomfort in my shoulder blades.

I hope i'm not thinking myself to sickness. I have always been a healthy person up until early last month when I had the panic attack. This 21 years of good health is why i'm worried so much now.

[cudman]

Hi Tomy7,

I think your experience may be helpful to a number of us on this forum who have been told our symptoms are due to anxiety, somatoform, or conversion disorder. You mentioned some of the basic symptoms of anxiety, including lump in throat, muscle tightness, palpitations. I don't think anyone will argue with those being symptoms of anxiety.

But what's your take when it comes to muscle weakness, tremor, dizzyness, brain fog, slurred speech, and other real neuro stuff. Have you seen in your practice that this can truly be somatization, as evidenced by people actually getting better and not turning out to have a neuro disease?

I'm asking because everytime a neuro says they have had patients like that, they can never back it up with evidence.

[tomy7]

Panic attacks are often the first sign of symptoms that occur down the road which are similar to the ones you describe.  You don't have to consciously feel anxious or stressed at the moment these symptoms take place.  This is often the body's reaction to culmulative stress and can also have genetic components.  The symptoms you have described are consistent with panic attacks.  If your medical tests are normal, then you can be quite confident that these are not MS symptoms but anxiety produced.

Two key statements you have made:

"Every other day it seems like something new (including today!)."

"Then again, i'm constantly thinking of my health, hyper-attentive to every little thing I feel."

now...objectively reading that....what do you think?

[tomy7]

Actually, I am glad to clarify a couple of things from my point of view, but I cannot take up residency on the board and shall be leaving shortly.  I wish everyone well.

Muscle weakness and slurred speech are obviously neurological symptoms and need a doctor's attention, however, they need to be assessed by an objective, qualified person through tests.  

Anxiety and depression can lead to false perceptions, subjectively.  Tremors and muscle weakness may be falsely perceived in a highly anxious state.  That state could cause you to be so attentive to your body that tension headaches could be misinterpreted as dizzyness, brain fog and tremors could literally just be the jitters.  Clumisness could really be "your nerves".--buzzing...in the limbs, joints, muscles...a classic anxiety-related system.

Particularly, anxiety is notorious for causing skin disorders.

For panic attacks, a behavioral approach is very beneficial.  I suggest you read up on that literature and find yourself a good behaviorist.  Panic CAN be controlled without medication in many circumstances.  It's about talking yourself through them and KNOW you are going to be o.k.

With these kinds of symptoms, the older you are and the longer you have had a life without panic...it appears that the recovery is quicker.

The trick is to take your eyeballs and turn them around to the outside world...for some of you, they are turned around and pointed inside your body.

[DetGuy]

Well, I know that I suffer from symptoms of anxiety (e.g. lump in throat, tension headches, palpitations, etc.). However, I wanted to know about the prickling and burning sensations, as well as the other neurological symptoms like the buzzing or vibration sensation (not strong, but there).

I mean, if you can tell me that the neurological symptoms are also indicative of the anxiety i'm suffering from, then that helps. I will be seeing a doctor soon but i just wanted to know if those symptoms are indicative of something worse than what i'm making it out to be.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[cudman]

Thanks for the info.

[tomy7]

By all means see a doctor so you can hopefully begin to find a "comfort zone" and rule out any physical/structural problems.  If you read my previous post, "buzzing" or vibrations" are classic anxiety-related sensations.  I have had patients tell me that they can feel and hear their blood circulating.  Talk about inward focus!

By all means know that tingling or prickly sensations in the feet and lips can also be anxiety based.  If it is found (and I have a feeling it will be, let's think positively) that your tests don't show any neurological abnormalities, then you will hopefully not need lots of convincing that you might actually be a healthy guy with some anxiety issues.

I am talking from my experience with patients of similar symptoms and from the history and present status you have given me.  From the symptoms you describe and your "state of mind", I am giving you my honest assessment of the situation as best I can without having seen you and without any doctor's assessment.  Can I be mistaken, of course.  Is it likely?  Based on what you have told me, I really don't think so.

One interesting test is to see if you can think of any time, since your preoccupation with these symptoms, that you have been so focused on something else (work, movie, book, an emergency situation) where these symptoms have disappeared for a few moments or longer because you were distracted.  After the distraction (where you were unconsciously pulled you out of your body focus) was over, did your thoughts immediately return to your body and the symptoms reappear?

Having no symptoms when totally and fully distracted (if that's possible) can say a lot about those symtpoms and what they mean.

[CyndyisMe]

Tomy, you write:
"Of course, there are people with real diseases, however, I am writing a paper on the fact that very few of them actually frequent boards like this. I am a psychotherapist in NYC."
Because my symptomology does not match any "one" diagnosis, my physicians actually encouraged me to do an on-line search and I have found much information to share with them, for which they are thankful, not having time to do extensive searches themselves.  A note of caution about immediately attributing "physical symptoms" to "anxiety or conversions disorders".  Once that "diagnosis" appears in your medical history it will haunt you forever. From personal experience with a family member who DID have anxiety attacks, her other "real symptoms" were dismissed as "anxiety-related" because that had been previously noted in her chart... and she almost died because of it. (She had meningitis). As for "conversion disorders", that is a scrap heap that "idiosyncratic disorders" are thrown into when medical "professionals" often don't have or are to taxed (time-wise) or lazy to search further for answers.
From personal experience: In 1996 I was hospitalized following cervical osteomyelitis. Even after cervical fusion, I was having problems with my legs. My orthopedist said, "That's from the trauma to your cervical cord... and you'll probably always have it." and dropped the matter. My neurpsurgeon, said, "Be patient with me, there are a few more tests I want to run before we decide if this is permanent or not." After some extensive tests in neuclear medicine it was found that messages were being sent from my brain through my nervous system with no problem BUT the problem came when the return responses from the body back to the brain showed slowing in the thoracic region. Further studies showed huge disk herniations between T6-T9 with loose disk material that had migrated anteriorly and posteriorly compressing the spinal cord. If I had just listened to the orthopedist, this would never have been discovered. However, that same orthopedist ended up saving my husband's life when, after 6 months of upper back pain (dismissed by our PCP as referred pain from GERD, probably caused by anxiety) a CT scan of his spine was performed and a 5cm upper aortic aneurysm was discovered right where the aorta leaves the heart. He had immediate surgery and is alive and walking today because he did not accept the "anxiety" diagnosis.
And for the original poster... I am sorry your original question was not answered. About the MS, your first bet should be to go to a neurologist. While there is no definitive test that can prove MS, there are sets of symptoms as well as (often but not always) plaques and lesions that form in the brain and neural pathways, each provoking its own sets of symtoms. Also, you may want to check with a Rheumatologist as some of your symptoms sound like fibromyalgia. For reference, you can check out the Arthritis Foundation site (www.arthritisfoundation.org) which has alot of info on fibromyalgia, as does the chat/info site:
www.efibro.com   Good luck in your search for good health.

[tomy7]

I appreciate your struggle and I am glad you were to find resolve.  I believe there is a difference between "research" and frequenting or taken up residency on message boards which has a huge attraction to people with anxiety-driven symptoms.  

Statistically speaking my comments still stand.
My own group's research has gone quite a bit beyond this little board and has taken an exhaustive amount of time for study...Our sample includes almost 200 health related sites and about 2400 cases.

There are strong emotional components to generalized symptoms that occur in Fibromyalgia or CFS.  It's not an accident that these diagnoses are both successfully treated with anti-depressants.

[tomy7]

If approved by your doctor, I can't emphasize enought the importance of EXERCISE and a low fat, low carbohydrate diet.  Avoid sugar and caffeine.

Increase in serotinin due to Aerobic exercise does wonders for anxiety-driven symptoms.

In addition, low weight training can confirm and inspire confidence that actual muscle weakness has not occured.

[DetGuy]

I know i'm bordering on the line of being obnoxious, but the "buzzing" or mild vibration or whatever is starting to go away but i'm getting more burning. Particularly, my legs and knees burn when sitting (especially the back part). Last night, my left thigh had a burning sensation. Now, i can feel it in my back and shoulder blades incremenatally. Can stress or depression manifest themselves in burning? What about circulation? I might be getting over my MS fascination but i'd still like some answers. Thanks! Sorry for being so annoying!!

[AMIOK]

Tomy...others.....I am a first time poster -39 y/o male 5'10" 180, BP 130/85 - no previous history of anxiety or depression).

Up until now I've been quite healthy but I have had some similar symptoms over the last several months - and they're disturbing.  I'd call them more like numbness/tingling and aches in the hands, feet, legs, arms (including being awakened at night by these symptoms) - in addition to a number of other weird symptoms including dizziness/vertigo/"spaciness", ear-popping, nausea, temperature sensitivity and extreme drowsiness-

I've had several Neuro tests (basic in-office neuro exam for reflexes, coordination etc., Brain MRI, EEG, and several blood tests including B-12, CBC, Lyme, Lupus) and all have come back "normal"....The "normal" results do quite a bit to mitigate my anxiety (in addition to some xanax), yet the symptoms remain - so I'm in a chicken and egg dilemma - I feel like the normal results should be calming...and they are to a point and I feel like I've licked the anxiety, but then the symptoms come back and I start to worry and over-analyze again about worst case scenarios....and I wonder where the hell these symptoms came from in the first place.....so I'm looking for some answers

Two questions for the board:

1.) Are the symptoms noted above consistent with anxiety?  What if I don't "feel" anxious? - I know they're consistent with a lot of other scary stuff, but "normal" test results would tend to take many of those out of the picture statistically/logically - unless they missed something (there's the "what if" thinking the pscycotherapists talk about)
2.) I've tried to post to this board numerous times to engage a 2nd Dr. to see what his/her opinion is about my symptoms and test results thus far, but every time I try the "quota" is filled and they steer me to "AnswerSoft" - for a small fee. Has anyone here used that with any success?....Are the folks who answer for that service specialists in the field of Neuro or something else?

Thanks in advance: AMIOK

[DetGuy]

Can someone please tell me what all can cause this buzzing sensation?

[Kit1]

Those who are suggestible to feeling pain and other symptoms as a result of anxiety or stress are also more suggestible than average to the ministrations of the psychologist.

Tomy7, if what you do helps some people, that is good. (Although I would be highly suspicious of immediate "cures." If the pain goes that easily, it can come back just as easily). But not all will be helped by that method and will need other options.

The best method is not the one any given person practices, but the one that actually helps the patient.

[Demiguise]

Your frustration is coming through. You need to talk to someone close you trust. Then you need to `find' a helpful Dr. That's the trick! An Internal MD can direct you if they have an idea.
If you feel dismissed, get another. We hate words like: anxiety
& obsessive along w/ mental & psychogenic. Personally, I like
`stress'. I get anxiety going to a new Dr. & I leave stressed!
You get both because they didn't answer you in that 10 minutes.
Perhaps a few days of Xanax could relax your thoughts, get you
some rest, + it's good for spasms in the brain & it relaxes body
muscles. You don't sound mentally-off, just mentally worked. I
take Xanax off/on, usually when I hit overload. `Writing a paper
on people w/ real diseases' is a real turn-off. It seems to de-
validate us. My illness caused worry, then essential tremors. My
tremors are referred to as obvious anxiety? My muscle burn was
finally Dx by an EMG/NCV test at a neuro. Numb-tingling hand was
another problem. Pinched nerve at C5-6. I went to many Dr's. I
did have a serious problem but it wasn't anything related to
things you mentioned. This board is good therapy for direction.
Don't take all to heart. Take charge & think positive. If you're
thrown a curve, I bet you'll be able to handle it. Please let us
know your out-come. You may help others greatly.

[CyndyisMe]

Have you been to a rheumatologist yet?
Some of your symptoms sound like many
of the fleeting symptoms of fibromyalgia,
which can be diagnosed by a Rheumatologist
familiar with that syndrome. You can go to
www.arthritisfoundation.org for more info
on symptomology. Another site, www.efibro.com
is a wealth of info on the variety of symptoms
and problems associated with fibromyalgia.
The bussing/burning feeling sounds like a nerve
problem. The fact that it goes up the back of
your leg, sounds like sciatic nerve pain. This,
depending on what is causing it (vertebral problems,
disk herniation, nerve entrapment, adhesions of
peripheral nerves etc) can come and go depending
on your activities. Your condern and apprehension
is very evident. If you weren't concerned about
such symptomology, I would be more concerned, as that
is often a symptom of conversion disorders.
Many times, one physician might miss what another
picks up. Not because of error but simply because
one might have more experience with a certain
problem and know what to "look for". A case in point:
My 30 year old daughter had extreme knee pain. She
went to her PCP who did an x-ray and "saw nothing wrong".
We took that same xray to an orthopedist who immediately
saw a "possible problem" with the meniscii and sent her
for an MRI. Turns out she had torn both the l
ateral meniscus and medial meniscus and was scheduled
for surgery. Now... was the first doctor in error ? His
diagnosis was incorrect because he did not have the
experience of the 2nd doctor, who dealt with that proble
on a daily basis and "knew what to look for". Keep
looking for a doctor to provide you with solutions to
your concerns. It is YOUR body... the only one you
will ever get... and it is up to you to take care of it.
Don't get discouraged if one or two or ten don't find
"the cause". On the efibro.com web site, some of the
folks there went 7 years before getting an accurate
diagnosis... Alot had to do with a doctor's experience
and how open they are to new ideas and treatment strategies.
Not every undiagnoseable illness is "in your mind" or
"caused by nerves". They are just convenient "dumps"
for physicians who "really just don't have the answers".
Good Luck... and don't stop looking.  Answers are out there.

[jamilee]

Yes, I have used the doctors at answersoft one time. The charge a minimal fee, actually cheaper than going to your PCP, and you get 3 opinions! Yes, they are specialists, and I got three good answers. Go for it!

[DetGuy]

Doc,
I have some specific questions:

1) Do MS symptoms generally last the length that I have spoken of (about 7 weeks now)?
2) Do MS symptoms generally appear like I have described? Today, I had some weakness in my right arm but this is new and wasn't too bad.
3) Would one's first MS attack be so broad as I have had it? I have had so many symptoms for over a month.
4) Can stress or something be causing all this (somatoform? hypocondrias?)?

I have had these sharp pains in my head. They are short and don't last long. These first appeared at the beginning of my symptoms and have recently reappered. Can I have a nerve issue that is causing some of my problems? I also recently had some muscle twitching going on (nothing too severe) but I have chalked a lot of this up to stress.

I haven't had any of the burning since I have been home. Just some tingling in the fingers, buzzing sensation in the legs (when I went out one night and was having some anxiety issues) and general since of anxiety and malaise, and today the slight right arm weakness and head pains.

Does this sound remotely like MS or am I just stressing? I know all this happened when I had my first anxiety attack. But the symptoms are so real to me that while intellectually I might know its severe stress and mental, I can't stop thinking about having a devastating disease.

I have seen my doctor and am going back this week. However, the first visit was just a physical and I didn't really discuss my worries. I plan to be more specific this next time.

Please help me out in the mean time. Thanks!

[catys mom]

Caty at 9yrs old was diagnosed with somatic disorder, 3yrs ago. After ruling out other disorders by 2 Dr's, We learned that until she matured and wanted to take charge of her "feelings" physcotherapy would not help her. She had been given Paxil to help with her so called anxieties. Through middle school normal problems she had her ups and downs,her spells definatly worse when she had a rough day. I was told by several Dr's I needed to allow her 100% independence and encourage her to live a 100% normal life,or the scondary gain would make things worse. Well, this summer in waist deep water she drowned,and of course the spell I believe she had came on without her knowing it. I was told she would always know when she'd have one. Where would of been the right choice to make here......Watch her constantly and make her conversion disorder worse,or now I see Dr's do give the wrong advice and I should of followed my motherly instincts and not let her out of my sight. Noone saw her have it,and she was not found in time,but she was strong as a Ox and swam wonderfully....what other anwsers are there. She had a small cyst on her brain that I was told would not be any reason for these type of spells(alot of people said they resembled epileptic seizures) Now hind sight.....is nothing,but trying to live with our loss and make some sense out of this...thank you for your time...letting me vent and grieve together at once.