Strange symptoms

[AMC5]

Just over a year ago I experienced strange symptoms. I am 30 yr old, good health, don't smoke, don't drink.  One morning I started having trouble speaking.  Saying wrong words, couldn't read, could barely dial the phone, forgot phone numbers, wrote down wrong numbers when being told what numbers to dial.  About a half hour before this had visual problems.  It was like everything was jiggling.  Wasn't "dizzy", just everything around me was almost  like bouncing.  Whole visual episode lasted about 20 minutes, trouble thinking, speaking, lasted about 10 minutes.  Couldn't even get the names of my children right.  Was very concerend.  Went to ER, did CT-normal.  Weeks later had MRI  w/o contrast, US of heart, neck, thyroid.  All normal.  Blood work all normal except elevated Thyroid which later when re-checked was normal.  Neurologist thought possible TIA, then changed to possible Atypical Migraine.  No history of Migraines.  Had dull headache when all over.  Since then have had a few visual problems, and some dizzy spells.  Nothing like what happened that day.  Any ideas?  Does this sound more like a type of Migraine?  Thanks for your time.

[CCF-Neuro-M.D.-JT]

Complex migraines are certainly a consideration, but another possibility would be a seizure.  If you haven't already had one, then you may want to consider getting an EEG, perhaps even a prolonged sleep deprived EEG just to make sure that the diagnosis wasn't missed. But reading over your story, the visual changes that preceded the neurological problems sound like they could have been an migrainous aura.  The dull headache afterwards also help make migraine a strong possiblity.  Glad that your workup was otherwise normal. Good luck.

[PRP]

When I first started reading this I thought, "A stroke". But as I continued, I would say a Migraine. 15% of people who suffer from migraines have visual disturbances of some kind. Over the last eleven years, I've had a couple of different kinds of visual disturbances. You may want to try seeing if you are able to find a trigger, i.e. stress and find a neurologist that you like and trust.

[AimHigh]

Were you taking a quinolone based antibiotic at the time, such as Cipro, Levaquin, Noroxin, Floxenor, etc?

[Mysterious Stranger]

Have you used aspartame (Equal, Nutrasweet) in the last few years? Do you drink diet sodas?  If so, how much have you regularly consumed?

[misaki]

Oh, c'mon, stop talking about aspartame. There is no evidence that aspartame causes MS-like symptoms. Read this: http://www.msfocus.org/aspart.htm

Please don't believe everything you read on the Internet. It's important to learn as much as you can about your disease, but make sure you learn from reliable sources.

I know what i'm talking about. I'm a medical student which has turned out to have MS. I try to stay as up-to-date on MS as I can, so I regularly browse the Internet for news. And I swear I get mad everytime I find a certain doctor XXXXXX who claims to have the ultimate cure, or all those sites which blame aspartame for causing lupus and multiple sclerosis. It's not true!!

(Please forgive my English, I come from a European Country)

[Mysterious Stranger]

misaki, your English is OK, but your medical education is still limited. You cited some misinformation about methanol that is frequently thrown out by the proponents of aspartame, such as statements like this one from the link you included: "a glass of tomato juice provides 6 times more methanol than a beverage the same size sweetened with 100 percent aspartame." There is indeed methanol in tomato juice as in a few other "woody" fruits we consume. However, there is a difference between consuming naturally-occurring methanol in fruits and consuming isolated methanol used as a binding agent in the man-made compound aspartame. Since you are a medical student, can you tell us what it is?
Here's a clue. What is the antidote for methanol poisoning? Since you are a medical student, perhaps you can tell us the answer. If you don't know, it may surprise you, and even seem pardoxical. If you do know, then you can probably figure out why consuming methanol without the rest of the tomato juice or orange juice or whatever natural substance it is contained in. Then, when you figure that out, imagine the effect of consuming methanol in the thousands of people in this country who consume massive amounts of aspartame, often unknowingly.
Then, when you have solved that, think about this. What are the symptoms of methanol poisoning? Here. I will save you the trouble of opening your medical school textbooks. The symptoms are as follows:

Many of the early symptoms of methanol poisoning are non-specific eg. headache, dizziness, malaise, generalized weakness, altered sensorium, acute mania, and paresthesias.

The most characteristic symptoms that are very suggestive of methanol toxicity are the visual symptoms - blurred vision, decreased vision, snowfield blindness - described as "seeing a snowstorm" or "stepping into a snowfield", visual scintillations, photophobia, constricted vision or visual field defects, total blindness. Abnormal eye signs include poorly reactive or unresponsive pupils, reduced visual acuity, optic disc hyperemia, retinal edema, an enlarged blind spot, papilledema, and eventually optic atrophy.

GI symptoms are also very common and include nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain due to gastritis. The abdominal pain can be severe and mimic an acute abdomen; pancreatitis can develop and also produce abdominal pain. Permanent neuro-visual deficits may follow recovery from severe methanol poisoning eg. pseudobulbar palsy, primitive reflexes, persistent vegetative states, unsteady gait, severe cognitive impairment, visual hallucinations, flaccid paralysis, Parkinsonian-like syndromes, bilateral basal ganglia infarction and optic neuropathy.

There are a great many people on this and similar boards who complain of SYSTEMIC neurological symptoms -- like numbness, tingling, paresthesias in all extremities and the face, muscle spasms and cramping bilaterally etc. -- which I am sure you recognize are the types of symptoms that lead many to get worked up for MS. But just look at the number of people on this web site alone who have had negative MRIs to rule out MS, and dozens of other tests that all come up negative. Some have searched for months for a clue as to why they have their symptoms, to no avail.

Granted, for many of those poor folks, aspartame is obviously not the cause of their problems, simply because they report they do not use it at all. But for those who do use it, my suggestion is a simple one. It doesn't require any involved analysis of the clinical studies. It just requires abstaining COMPLETELY from the stuff for 60 days, to see if it makes any difference. What does anyone have to lose by taking that simple step?

[Mysterious Stranger]

misaki, would you care to tell us whether you have personally used aspartame in your diet?  Diet soda or other artificially sweetened products?  I'm curious.

[AMC5]

Was not taking any antibiotics and don't use artificial sweetners.

[CHADDY]

It sounds a lot to me like a TIA.  Sometimes, I believe, clinical evaluation is the only way to determine a TIA, because none of the test(to my understanding) will show a sign of a "mini-stroke".  I could be wrong, but this is what I heard from a person that had one.  best wishes.  chad

[southern belle]

At one time nutrasweet contained mannitol..not sure if it still does as this was when it was first introduced when they were weaning saccarin out. At the time I drank diet drinks..they started with a "blend" of saccarin and nutrasweet to get ppl use to it. I noticed when the blend was introduced I had a lot of nausea but thought it was a matter of getting use to. After one week of "blend" started getting headaches. Didnt find out cause of problem till nutrasweet gumballs were placed in a cereal as a "gift" lol. Anyway..I had severe allergic reaction to mannital after surgery once..so that obviously was culprit in my case. Have not used diet products since as all have nutrasweet in them. Keep in mind when reading research that often they can manipulate any results they get to achieve what they wish results to show. They only get future grants for results after all.

[De-De]

I'm one of those who've been diagnosed at "complicated migraine".  I definitely get the stroke-like auras usually without headache (sometimes rather mild, tylenol usually helps).  I've experienced expressive aphasia (unable to speak or say the right words), generally out of it, right sided weakness-tingling-numbness)

I've had the "million dollar" workup - Heart / Brain caths, every blood test in the book, MRI/MRA's, CT's, multiple lumbar punctures.  Everything normal, except for smaller than normal arteriest at the base of the brain.  I understand this is a common finding in migraners.

I've managed these episodes with daily preventative medicines, (aspirin, verapamil, nortriptyline), avoiding trigger foods, and getting sufficient exercise.

Believe me, after 2 years, I still have a hard time accepting this neurological disease.

[misaki]

You don't know me, so you can't talk about my medical education. Which, by the way, is one of the best you can get. Cajal (in case you don't know, he was nobel prize for doing research in neurohistology) was a professor in my medical school, in the same department I am doing neuroanatomy research since age 18. Maybe if you spent all the time I have studying biochem, physiology, pathology, etc., you would see that there's no proof at the moment of aspartame's supposed toxicity, if consumed in the amounts *permitted* by FDA.

>> So, what is aspartame? Aspartame is just a combination of phenylalanine (phe) and aspartic acid (asp). Those are two aminoacids just like the ones that can be found in your body's proteins.

>> Fruit and aspartame doesn't have "methanol". Methanol is made in your body as a result of aminoacids metabolism. And there's NO difference between the methanol that results from natural products and man made products - it's the same compound.

>> You can't consume isolated methanol but you can eat fruit. Why? Because there "isn't" the same amount of methanol in an apple than in a methanol bottle. And you don't have to go to medical school to know that.

>> I don't need to open my text books to know what a methanol intoxication looks like, and I don't find its treatment surprising because i know the mechanisms in which are based. Maybe if you opened my textbooks, and then spent 6 years studying them instead of reading what other people say on internet, you would see my point.

>> I have not yet found a single case in medical literature of some patient that has been cured from MS-like or lupus-like symptoms by quitting diet soda. If you know someone, please refer him to a MEDICAL DOCTOR to do further research.

>> You ask me about myself. Yes, I drink LOTS and LOTS of diet coke. But, alas, my one and only relapse appeared two years before I started taking it. And drinking soda doesn't make me worse, in fact, not drinking diet coke makes me a lot more tired. I'm a caffeine junkie, just like 95% of med students. And none of my neurologists, nor my professors in med school has told me to stop drinking diet coke.

It's well known by physicians worldwide that the aspartame thing on the internet it's nothing but a hoax. There isn't any article in Medline to prove it. But if people prefer to blame aspartame for their illness, instead of searching for a good neurologist and facing the dx, they're in their right.

I won't tell anyone what to believe. I'm only talking about evidence.

[bbcatz]

Yay!  I liked how you put that.  You sound very knowledgeable. I have been dx with MS for over 6 years, and I never use aspartame.  I can count on one hand the times in the last 10 years or so that I have had a diet drink.  In fact, I don't drink any kind of soft drinks.
Good luck to you in your studies and also with your MS.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Misaki, first, you are incorrect in stating that aspartame does not contain methanol.  Aspartame is 10 percent methanol. You are incorrect in stating the methanol results from the metabolism of the amino acids in the product.  Methanol is used to bind the phenylalanine and aspartic acid.  Strike one.

      Consuming methanol in a man-made product is NOT the same as consuming a fruit that contains methanol.  The fruit contains the ANTIDOTE for methanol poising -- ethanol.  The methanol in aspartame is not accompanied by ethanol.  Strike two.

      The "aspartame thing on the Internet" is no hoax.  It has been called a hoax by the proponents of aspartame, and the "hoax calling thing on the Intenet" is the hoax.

      You drink "lots and lots of Diet Coke," and none of your neurologists and professors have told you to stop drinking Diet Coke.  Ergo, it's OK.  That's pretty funny.  It reminds me of something Paul Tillich once said:  "The passion for truth is often crushed by the weight of undisputed authority."

       You suggest people not blame aspartame, but rather search for a good neurologist.  I agree with the good neurologist part, but the point I was posting to the many people here who have done just that, and who have had dozens of MRIs, CT scans, and other tests, but are no closer to understanding what is causing their symptoms than they were before they went to a doctor.  I don't believe I have stated that MS is CAUSED by aspartame, although the cause is obviously not understood and is probably multi-factoral, and excitotoxins like aspartame may well be at least one of those factors.  But the point really is that many people who have negative MRIs and other objective tests, and still end up being diagnosed as having MS by default, might want to consider the possibility that their systemic peripheral neuropathy is caused by something as simple as a neurotoxin they place in their body.  And why not try abstaining for 60 days to see if it helps?  Why do you need a double-blind prospective study when all you have to do is quit consuming the stuff for 60 days?

[wishingyouwell]

this is not to be rude,but i believe amc5 was simply looking for information so he/she could better understand their med.prob.not for you two guys to go back and forth with medical debates to prove who's the brightest star .amc5 just wait for the c/clinic neuroligist to answer your questions ,then the next move if you havn't already ,is to take all you fils and test to another neuro for a second opion it is always good to have 2 or three opions to make sure nothing was missed ,god bless ,wishing you well

[misaki]

Why do I need a double blind clinical trial? Because that's how things work in medicine. If this Nancy XXXXX ever shows me a clinical trial proving aspartame's toxicity, I'll consider it. And if clinical trials prove going to Lourdes to be the cure for cancer, I myself will carry my patients there. But until then...

Yeah, I sure look stupid because I prefer to trust my doctors and my books (OMG, maybe they all have relatives in the aspartame industry...) instead of this invisible person on the internet who made up the whole thing. Which, by the way, is what you are doing. Very clever ¬¬

And that's the thing. I won't lose my time explaining the methanol thing, because if you already haven't gotten it, you'll never will. Too bad.

[misaki]

Wishingyouwell, I didn't post my first message to start any debate. I did it to offer some information that I myself would have liked to have when I first heard of aspartame. And i don't need to "prove I'm the brightest star" because I don't consider myself that way.

I only share the information i have gotten from a) medschool, b) textbooks, c) senior neurologists and d) common sense ¬¬ And that info is that "there's no evidence that aspartame in soda produces MS-like symptoms".

If other people wants to show how clever they are saying "but there's this woman on the internet who said... yaddayaddayadda (insert medical and biochemical babbling)" there's nothing I can do. In fact, I'm not going to reply this "Mysterious Stranger" anymore. Why should I consider the effort of debating medical issues in a language that's not mine, with a person who's not willing to open his/her eyes to EVIDENCE?

[lmroswell]

Eight months ago I was experiencing severe headaches, even waking up with them.  I thought it might be all the diet soda I was drinking.  I stopped drinking the diet drinks.  One day I woke up with tickling/tingling in my left foot.  The headaches diminished but the tingling continued for 7 months. Two separate MRIs showed a small nodule in left thalamus and a small non-specific linear thing in the T11, T12 area on my spine.  MS was suspected.  Slowly, and I mean ever so slooowly, my tingling improved to the point I would say my foot is normal.  A third MRI was done just a few weeks ago, and the nodule in the thalamus is still there (neuro is not concerned), and the linear lesion thing on my spine is gone.  Which explains why my foot feels almost 100%.  I was wondering if anyone has an idea of what it was I had.  Oh, I am back to drinking my diet sodas...

[Mysterious Stranger]

lmroswell, count yourself among the many unlucky people who have neurological dysfunction from causes that cannot be explained by conventional medical wisdom.  In your case, there is some apparent objectivity in your medical tests, i.e. the abnormal MRIs, but the exact cause of the lesions, plaquing or whatever it is being visualized on the MRIs may never be understood.

You can choose to follow the sophistry of some who have bought into the company line put out by industry, or you can at least TRY to isolate and identify a possible environmental cause of your illness.  You obviously cannot control your heredity, but you can control the neurotoxins you choose to use to insult your nervous system.  There have been dozens of studies by unbiased researchers demonstrating the neurotoxic effect of aspartame.  In your own case, you've apparently conducted a small, unscientific anecdotal study of one person that at least raises a possible circumstantial link between your symptoms and your aspartame consumption.  Since you have gone back to consuming the methanol and other nasty stuff, we should expect your symptoms will eventually reappear.  If they do, perhaps you will want to once again refrain from consuming aspartame.  Good luck to you.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Fortunately, I'm not the one with MS or something mimicking MS.  You are.  Perhaps I should expect someone with your educational background would have the smarts to conduct a little experiment on himself to see if aspartame at least aggravates your condition.  But I don't.  Because you have it figured out already.
   I'll make a prediction.  Someday, you will try just what I suggest.  You will eliminate aspartame from your diet completely for 60 days.  Of course, I cannot tell you that in YOUR case, it will make any difference at all.  (I suspect it will, however.)  But you will be curious enough, and perhaps desperate enough, to try it.  Perhaps by then, you will stop referring to the legit criticism of aspartame as if it were all created by some "Nancy XXX" as an internet hoax, probably because by then you will realize that there are board-certified specialists who have written and published about the medical concerns associated with heavy regular aspartame consumption.  By then, instead of your presumptuous dismissal of the numerous articles describing the risks of aspartame usage, you will have finally actually read some of those articles.  And you will realize you have been a fool.  I hope you find some relief from your condition, but mostly I hope you get over your hubris because it's going to make you a lousy physician.

[lmroswell]

Where or what have you read that Aspartame may have ill effects on the CNS?  I am only curious.  I have to say that I stopped drinking the diet stuff only because of the headaches, which I had experienced before my tingling problem.  Then the tingling happened, and very slowly over 7 months diminished.  I also stopped eating deli meats, which contain nitrites, which can trigger headaches.  I do  have a rapid heart rate (that started on Feb. 03), and am on 100 mg. Toprol.  Don't know if that is related to my unexplained neurological symptoms.  Or just the anxiety created in the last 8 months of my wondering what is going to happen.  Do you think it is possible that a virus of some sort caused my symptoms?

[lmroswell]

I also have heard from a Chiropractic friend that glutamate is also being suspected in over-exciting the CNS and that this substance is in certain foods in high amounts.  Ever heard of this?

[lmroswell]

Years ago, I had sub-acute transient thyroiditis.  Before I was diagnosed, I thought I was losing my mind.  Too much thyroid hormone can cause weird symtoms.  I would go to the grocery store only to get home to see that I bought the wrong product.  When I peaked, I was at work and could not write.  I could not concentrate very long.  The thyroiditis took its course and I have not had a problem with it since.  Maybe your symptoms arose because of the elevated hormone.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Yes, glutamate is a well-known neurotoxin, and the biological risk to health is very similar to asparate, from which aspartame derives its name.  You are probably familiar with MSG, which causes "Chinese restaurant syndrome" in many people.  The "G" stands for glutamate.

[tomy7]

The metabolism of aspartame in the human body and the proposed toxicities from its metabolic components have concerned a lot of people and have been the emphasis of many post-marketing surveillance studies. Aspartame is metabolized by digestive enzymes and peptides to three common dietary components: amino acids, aspartic acid, and phenylalanine. Minute amounts of methanol can also be detected. Eating foods such as meat, dairy, fruits, and vegetables will also produce these same components, but in greater amounts than aspartame. For example, a glass of milk has 6 times more phenylalanine and 13 times more aspartic acid and a glass of tomato juice provides 6 times more methanol than a beverage the same size sweetened with 100 percent aspartame. Interestingly enough, it is impossible for humans to digest enough aspartame to raise the levels of these metabolic components to a dangerous level.

Anecdotal reports claiming that aspartame caused health problems increased in the days and weeks after aspartame was approved for use in carbonated beverages in 1983. These reports prompted the FDA to request an investigation by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The CDC analyzed more than 500 reports and the problems associated with aspartame were divided into two categories. Two-thirds of the people experienced neurological problems while one-quarter of the people experienced gastrointestinal problems. The neurological symptoms consisted of headaches, mood alterations, insomnia, dizziness, and fatigue. The gastrointestinal symptoms included abdominal pain, nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting. The CDC concluded, "The majority of symptoms were mild and are symptoms that are common in the general populace." The CDC also noted that there was no evidence supporting the claim that aspartame could cause certain diseases (i.e. multiple sclerosis, lupus, etc.).

While nothing can be considered 100 percent safe, aspartame has undergone extensive testing. With the exception of a few very mild side effects, aspartame appears to be quite safe. Those individuals, who experience problems after consuming aspartame, should eliminate foods and beverages that contain this sweetener from their diet.

The report claiming aspartame causes MS, often referred to as the Nancy Merkle hoax, is believed to have been circulating since 1995. The message is attributed to "Nancy Merkle," yet no one by that name is known to exist, nor has anyone come forward claiming to be the author. No credentials, research or sources are cited. This hoax first came to the attention of the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation in 1998, when those circulating it added the false claim that the MSF was suing the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to halt the sale and use of aspartame. The MSF neither condemns nor endorses aspartame, and has never filed suit against the FDA.

The internet is not a place for diagnosis but a place to share viewpoints.  The internet population that visit medical sites for answers to questions that reliable physicians have already answered are often chronic worriers and have a whole barrel full of symptoms that seem to be unrelated or unexplainable, as it were.  Do you know how many people are somatizers?, i.e., those who translate fear and anxiety into physical symptoms?  The internet is the hypochondriac's new haven and can easily be swayed and preyed upon by silly hoaxes and unproven remedies.  Use common sense.  Go to your doctor for answers not the web.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Tomy7 has done a good cut-and-paste job of repeating the same bunch of baloney freely disseminated on the websites of the product's manufacturer.  In fact, it's amazing how much of the text from the press releases from the manufacturer end up being repeated sometimes word-for-word by the unwitting news agencies who don't understand the biology involved.   In fact, even many of the so-called "health newsletters" put out by major medical institutions have regurgitated the line fed them by the manufacturer.
     But look, we don't need to debate the safety of aspartame here.  Anyone who understands how to use a good search engine can locate the dozens of articles and studies that have implicated aspartame as a dangerous substance.  Just put in "aspartame +toxic" or "methanol +aspartame" and you'll find links to plenty of med journal articles on the subject.
     The proponents of consuming neurotoxins can argue until the cows come home their aspartame is not harmful, and the readers of this site can choose to read more about the product on the Internet or ignore the risks.  But the proponents cannot effectively counter this point:  why not try asbstaining from consuming the stuff for 60 days?  What do you have to lose?  I am not suggesting anyone do anything more radical than simply tossing out the Equal and the Diet Coke for a couple of months.  What harm can that do?  Some of the people here with unexplained peripheral neuropathy are likely to be surprised by the results.

[lmroswell]

After experiencing strange neuro syptoms (symptoms), I have read a lot on neurological maladies.  Some of the reading has come from medical books, and some from the web.  Of course you can't believe everything you read on the web, but I would not discount any theory of what may cause neuro symptoms, especially when the cause is unknown.  Medicine is not an exact science, but an evolving one.  I have the utmost respect for medical doctors and those involved in the medical field.  However, numerous times the FDA has  has given its approval for consumption of a product, only to revoke its approval later.  I am not saying that what is on the web about Aspartame is true, only to keep an open mind.  That is how solutions are found.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Well said.

[tomy7]

This is my last note, just to say that my post still stands because it is common sense.  The kind of nonsense you are spitting is fodder for the hypochondriacs that post here....

[lmroswell]

Ouch!  Hypochondriacs?  One could only be so lucky.  My guess is that most people that post questions on this board are facing potentially life changing medical diagnoses and are desperate for additional information.  No, I don't think they're hypochondriacs...

[misaki]

Hey, Nostradamus, I'm not going to reply to your pathetic "predictions". Go find someone ignorant enough to care about yout opinion.

It's very easy to talk about things you don't know. I'll only post one more reflexion... Why is it that this weird theories are always supported by mysterous strangers and not by scientists?

[lmroswell]

Pathetic predictions?  "Who" is prediciting "what"?  I am not in support of any particular theory on what has caused my neurological symptoms.  I personally don't have an answer from my neurologist, so naturally, one keeps searching for possible answers.  To keep an open mind, and to keep searching.  Something has to be causing these neuro problems that many people are experiencing, for which there are no answers for.  That is all I was trying to convey here.

[Lyllian]

I just thought I would add my two cents worth..... apart from not knowing anything about diet soda's and their so called bad effects... I only want to be a litte humorous to lighten the talks here.... I do not drink any soda's let alone diet ones... not because of some so called bad side effects... but.... because....all my life (just like my dear mother) I cannot drink any soda (because of the carbonisation) sorry about the typo...the soda's sting my tongue so bad.... that I cannot stand the feeling on my tongue..its like a bunch of needles picking at my tongue.. so for all the soda drinkers out their....HOW DO YOU DO IT?????? have a nice day...
   I was only in the medical site looking for edema... which I do have ... but only recently... Of course it cannot be because of soda's..... I DONT DRINK THEM !!!
                          :)

                  Everyone have a nice day, and now.........
         continue on in your debate..... bye
                               Lyllian Sapp

[lmroswell]

Thanks for interjecting.  I thought it was going to be another insult.  As for drinking the sodas, I always drink them on ice.  It dilutes the carbonization.  Hate to drink out of cans unless there is no other option.  Good luck with your edema problem...

[misaki]

I wasn't replying to you, lmroswell. My post came after yours because I've been busy with my exams, but i wanted to reply to our Mysterious Stranger, not to your post ^_~

[Mysterious Stranger]

Physician (to be), heal thyself.
     Or at least be open-minded enough to withhold aspartame on an experimental basis for 60 days.  What have you got to lose?  You'll obviously benefit from stopping the process of leeching calcium from your bones when you knock off the consumption of the phosphoric acid in the diet cola.  Sorry, I must reiterate my prediction.  You will try it.  You can't be that stubborn, and since there is no other therapy for your MS, you might as well give it a shot.  At the end of the 60 days, you can post here and brag about your anecdotal experience disproving any link between your aspartame consumption and your symptoms.  I think you will try it.  You know you will.

[lmroswell]

Because you are studying medicine and you have a personal insight on MS, I was wondering if you would give your opinion on what may have caused a "5mm linear focus of increased signal at the T11-T12 within the thoracic cord" and then disappear after 7 months.  My foot tickled and tingled for months constantly, and then very slowly went away.  I still feel the sensations, but rarely.  Can the lesions caused by demyelination heal and disappear?  Or do you think this was some transient inflammatory process?  Or virus?  Just wondering what you thought...All other tests I had were normal; emg, evoked potentials, lyme, lupus, HIV.

[Lyllian]

hi lmroswell,

Over ice, not over ice tis not the question! :)
even a bit, I mean a tiny bit of that carbination will send my tongue into a hissy fit!  :)   Thanks for the advice anyway.

[misaki]

When serial MRI studies are performed every two weeks on MS patients, demyelination focus come and go. Most of them remain silent, but since they are anatomo-pathologically (huh, spelling?) equivalent to those who cause symptoms, it's very likely that lesions with a clinical correlate can appear in MRI and later disappear as well.

Only time can tell wether the episode you describe was a first MS relapse or just an isolated process (i'm sure your doctor has told you that). If you'd said you had an optic neuritis, and the periventricular lesions (i assume you've been done a brain MRI), and so on I wouldn't lie to you. But fortunately this is not your case. There are lots of people (more than we think) out there who suffer one single demyelination episode in their life. What causes this isolated attacks (as well as MS) remains unknown, it could be a virus, but the truth is we don't know for sure (although autoimmunity plays an important role).

(Sorry, I know my English is horrible!)

[Peace2U]

Well,hello...this is my first post to this group. I just had to say that I could never handle all the back and forth bicker in the level of pain I'm in...and I really can't imagine how anyone hurting could participate in such banter.  I had to skip past most of the posts in order to find one that wasn't SCATHING.  If we all know everything, then why come here to ask questions and gather information??? I guess if this is just a place where people are so insecure with who they are and what they know that they have to put down others in order to build themselves up then I'll go elsewhere.  I had a bad enough headache before I joined this group,thank you.  Besides I don't think I need to be subject to being degraded by someone who hasn't even finished med school yet. Sounds to me like "we" are a case study, only she can't bear to sit quietly in the sidelines and study.  I think I'll find out who moderates this group. I'm quite sure I read in the guidelines that this type of behavior is not permitted.

[lmroswell]

Thanks for the response.  My neurologist didn't have an explanation for the disappearance of the linear focus.  I did have an MRI of the brain done, twice.  Both showed a nodule, non-specific in the left thalamus.  How common is that?  Two neurologists were not concerned about it.  Said it did not look characteristic of a lesion.  That it is possible that I was born with it.  I wasn't aware that there are people that experience one episode of demyelination.  But, you are right.  If this is a disease process, time will tell.

[Mr Ali]

my brother who's 31 is presently lying in hospital and has been there for the last 6 weeks, his symptoms sound similar to methonal poisoning which you mentioned. he started off with severe body ache, unsteady gait, malaise, lack of sleep and also dry/hard/cracked fingertips. he's also had epilepsy since the age of 8 and a brain tumor which was removed 6 months ago, i've been told his epilepsy & tumor are unrelated???? but since the op his fits have stopped. back to his present condition; since he was admitted the doctors cant seem to find whats wrong. a week after his admission he came home but he got worse and went back at which point he was hallcinating, stiffness including the neck, severe abdominal pains and extreme pain when urinating what little he could although his fluid intake was high, shaking (parkinsons like), jerking, loss of memory, swinging temperature, loss of speech, unaware of his surroundings etc, at present he is in a coma like state with some breathing problems. after several weeks of eliminating the doctors think he may have tb meningitis (he is asian)and is being treated for it although they cant be sure cus they r unable to do a lumber punchure as he also has regrowth in his residual tumor and it could be fatal. (neuro-surgeons do not feel his condition is a result of the regrowth) As the doctors r only guessing, please feel free to do the same.. any info will be appreciated... thank you all. please ask for anymore info.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Given the history of epilepsy and tumor (you didn't indicate what type), any number of possible causes come to mind, but your brother's situation sounds very complex and difficult to understand.  FYI, there is good reason to believe epilepsy can be at least aggravated by the neurotoxins in aspartame, and methanol poisoning can indeed cause some of the symptoms your brother has.  But you didn't answer the obvious question that comes to my mind.  Has your brother been a user of aspartame and if so, what amount of consumption of the stuff are we talking about?  WIthout knowing whether he even consumed it, it would be speculative to think about methanol poisoning.
     My heart goes out to you and your brother.  I hope his physicians are able to identify the cause of his problems.

[Mr Ali]

hi just a quick message to say thanks for your response and no, he's not a user of aspartame and his tumor is not the cancerous type. at one point they suspected that he may be having a continious seizure but a wave scan proved not. i've only posted on here as the doctors are running out of ideas and to see if anyone has alternitave sugestions??? i understand his symptoms are unusual and its difficult to say but i was just hoping someone reading this may have seen or read about similar symptoms. even your wildest sugestions cant do any harm as i will only relay it to the doctors to see if its a possiblity etc.... thanks again.

[Lady Jay]

"As part-a me" identified with the title of AMC5's thread... and "as part-a me" clicked it open because "inquiring minds" have always graced these hallways during all 4 1/2 of my registered "want to know" years-of-participation, I am outraged by what I have witnessed... not only here in this thread, but in numerous others as well.

I applaud every single solitary "change" that has been made by the staff here at Medhelp.org since my participation began in late 1998.   Physician participation used to be a full-time job because they would dedicate themselves to the job and it wasn't uncommon for them to reply 2, 3, 5 or even more times in one single thread.  The last forum "Doc" to subject themselves to such dedication was CCF Neuro MD., RPS.   Many participants were more-than-a-little perturbed when this was stopped by the staff and the system of one (1) physician reply per question came into play.

I do, however, reserve the right to express my deepest thanks to the staff for allowing Doc RPS to be my crutch of support on my way up the "craniotomy hallway" because the term "basket case" applied.   A trio of specialists removed half my forehead and chased networks of neurofibroma and schwannoma throughout my left temporal lobe and my orbit... all the way down my optic nerve to my deep cavernous sinus.   Oh... there was one in there too!  After I'd healed for 6 months, Doc RPS became another crutch.   Stereotactic Radiosurgery and its "one-time" shot blasted "it"... and I'm alive today.   Both procedures were done in 1999... and my journey presses on.   I do not "post" anymore... I lurk and read, posting very few replies.

Peace2U... there is a truly "strange symptom" regarding your headache.   Your reprimand is successful up to a certain point... then something mysteriously strange occurs.  (quote):  "I don't think I need to be subject to being degraded by someone who hasn't even finished med school yet.   Sounds to me like "we" are a case study, only she can't bear to sit quietly in the sidelines and study."

Will Rogers:  "We all can't be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by."

Misaki?   I'm like you... tired of aspartame.   It is clearly evident that a mysterious stray has indeed advocated the aspartame mumbo jumbo to the point of being classified as mysteriously stranger than fiction.  You said, "I try to stay as up to date on MS as I can, so I regularly browse the internet for news, and I swear I get mad everytime I find a certain DOC XXXX who claims to have to ultimate cure, or all those sites which blame aspartame for causing lupus and multiple sclerosis."

You have been bashed by an advocate, not only here in this thread, but in many others lacing this forum as well... for pleading, "Come on!   Give it a rest!"   We all know what happens when one protests against an advocate.   They just "focus" harder, adding injury to insult... and wonder why their obsession is eventually passed over and treated with such disregard?

Does aspartame and its partners trigger autoimmune disorders?   Or genetic deficiencies?   I had the Guillain Barre Syndrome back in 1972.   It paralyzed me from head to toe... after I rolled up my sleeve in a line at the office in a company-wide flu shot crusade.   And out of 2000+ employees, the healthy gymnast went down with GBS at 18 years of age.

Here's a good question for women who suffer the tingles, muscle pain, back pain... and any pain that is deep-seated in their bodies from the "waist down"......

Did you have an epidural during labor before childbirth?

Were you "stuck" once?  Twice?  Three or more times for effect during the same delivery?

I know many who have... myself included.   I was stuck once, had a C-section and no problems.  I did not have to "bear down."

I know many who "had" to be stuck more than once.   Think about this real hard.   If there are "so-called" bad physicians... why in blazes should we stop there?   What about bad anesthesiologists?  ("anesthesiology-gone bad")  After all... this is "the spinal cord" we're talking about, isn't it?

And... should epidurals be used at all during normal deliveries?  It seems to me that there is WAY too much movement and weight going on at the "stick" site.   In C-sections, there is no movement involved.  

Think about it.

[misaki]

Sorry for the delay, this is my last week of exams >_<

It's not very common to find silent nodules in the thalamus, but if it hasn't caused symptoms your doctors are probably right about it (i can't say much more because i haven't seen the MRI myself, but here it goes). The thalamus is a step station in the brain and very little lesions on it produce serious alterations, the only thing that would explain  having a lesion and no clinical correlate is that this nodule were congenital. Lots of people without neurological issues have abnormalities in their MRIs. This has been studied and I myself have seen it.

I hope it helped, but keep in mind that i'm student ;) I'm very interested in neurology (i wanted to be a neurosurgeon but the dx changed my choice to neurology) but I'm only learning. I wish you best of lucks.

I won't post here anymore about aspartame. Paranoids of the world, you can say aspartame killed president kennedy if you want. My exams are more important than that.

[Lady Jay]

Mind if I sit on the curb and clap when you pass by to collect your hero "doc"-ument?  I hope all has gone well concerning your exams... "as part-a me" believes that it has.   That is the last time I'll poke fun at the term.   Let's get back to the subject containing many hallways with doors that open neurological arenas brimming with opportunity.

Go for it.  Become an elite "detective."  I'm always ready to occupy curbspace and cheer.

[lmroswell]

Misaki:  Thanks for your response.  I hope your exams went well.  

[Ianna]

...and yet 'the Stranger' is quite right about aspartame...

[Mysterious Stranger]

Thanks to Ianna for the amen.  Yes, I am quite right about aspartame.  I don't claim abstaining from the stuff to be the panacea for all that ails ya, nor will abstaining help many of the unfortunate people here who are struggling with neurological deficits.  I simply offer the information for those who are wise enough to filter out the baloney about the substance fed by the shills for the aspartame industry, and bought and regurgitated hook, line and sinker by the "health news media."  I have little doubt there are at least a few people on this board who suffer various permutations of peripheral neuropathy, who have been thoroughly tested for dozens of ailments, to no avail, and categorized as MS or "MS-like."
       I have thought about providing a few dozen links to the wealth of information now available on the Internet about asparatame poisoning, particularly the most dangerous of its components, methanol (technically, methyl ester, but it converts within an hour to methanol in the body).  But I don't want to appear to be a shill for a particular group taking up the cause.  Suffice it to say that anyone with a decent search engine (Google will work just fine) can type in "aspartame +dangers" or "methanol +aspartame" or any number of similar combinations, and find a wealth of helpful information.
      I don't need to prove anything here.  I simply offer this simple suggestion to those who have grown frustrated at having negative MRIs and EEGs, yet who still suffer real headaches, vision disturbances, muscle cramping, spasms, numbness, paresthesias etc., particularly bilaterally and in both upper and lower extremities, and in the face.  I.e. for those with a generalized, systemic neuropathy that cannot be clearly identified as caused by a demonstrable cause.  My suggestion is a simple one.  IF you use aspartame (Equal, Nutrasweet), quit the stuff for 60 days -- completely, cold turkey -- and see what happens.  What do you have to lose?  Why must you even be "persuaded" first?  IF you are desperate enough, and I can tell there are a lot of desperate souls here, why not try it?  At worst, you will be no better.  I dare you.  Prove me wrong.