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B6 Toxicity
This is more of a comment than a question, but I would welcome info from anyone who has any experience with this situation. I took a prescription called Folcaps (which had 25 mgs of pyridoxine in it) for a year. In February of 06 I began experiencing symptoms which have now been diagnosed as Pyridoxine (b6) Toxicity Induced Neuropathy. I did not get this diagnosis until August 15, after four MRIs, several specialists and balance testing. My b6 blood level was 81 - the maximum safe level in this test was 32. When reading about b6 toxicity one reads about tingling hands and feet and being "wobbly on your feet" and things of that nature. It can be much more than that. Be careful with Vitamin b6. It's not known if the neurological damage is reversible. Some studies show it is, some show it is not. The damage I have suffered extends to my thyroid, my blood pressure has been lowered (to an unsafe level - it was healthy before), my balance has been damaged - I don't know where my right foot is in space, I've had insomnia, my symptoms are too lengthy to list here. The fatigue that I have been experiencing for the past several months has started to lift now that I've stopped taking the medication, but it is still profound...another hallmark symptom of b6 poisoning. This is a serious toxic situation and one that is not understood by the medical community. I am waiting to find out how much of my life I will get back. I am rebuilding my stamina & neuropathways with an optimistic outlook. And getting the word out. MD's don't know about vitamins. Work with nutritionists. Don't go it solo
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What about menstration ladies.
My has not been the same sense!
Totally messed up.
Anyone else?

Jen
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Let's do it! I am sure the others would be interested. I'll let you get the ball rolling....
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Has anyone suffering from this toxicity experienced ear pains or head pressure/head pains? Feels like head is burning from  within, never ceasing. Sound familiar? Let me hear from you...........

Thanks
smorris0312
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It has been over 6 mos since being diagnosed with B6 Toxicity. My level was over
90 when the limit was 23.  We calculated that I probably had this condition for two years without knowing it. I still suffer with heart palpitations and much body pain.
In addition to this my sleep is not good either especially with the vivid dreams
I have. This all leads to more anxiety which is the reason my doctor put me on
B6 to begin with. Naturally, I am losing confidence in getting well.
If you have experienced these symptoms:
Chest pain with palpitations. Had medical test for heart they were negative.f
Body pain including lower back pain.
Very difficult sleep.
Additional anxiety.
Could you put up a post to give some comfort if you know what I am talking about.
Lastly, a lot of my burning and tingling pain has diminished greatly. This is nice
since my calf would burn like it had a torch on it...
Thanks.
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Just read your post. I trust you have stopped taking any B6 supplements. You must if you plan to get better. I had the heart palipatations but no chest pain. I did have lower back pain but I have scoliosis. The pain is better now. I also have difficulty sleeping and I must take an anxiety medication along with melatonin to help with sleep.
You are not alone. This is a rare phenomenon and only a few drs believe it actually exists.
The important thing is to stop all B6 supplements. I have been advised to take acetyl L carnitine with alpha lipoic acid and methyl b12 as well as fish oil with DHA.
You will be fine. The healing process is slow and erratic. Go back and read my posts as well as the others. And let us know how you are doing.....
smorris 0312
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Jadeluca:
ALL OF IT SOUNDS FAMILIAR!
EVERYBIT OF IT!
Now, I had HEART PALPATIONS too.  Please check with your doctor, if you want to, about taking some extra magnesium.  I think you had told me you were taking it...I am sorry I can not remember.  THIS HELPS ME DRAMATICALLY with palpations!  Get back to me on this...
I had CHEST PAINS too.  I sometimes thought it was my heart, because it was on my left side, but just waited it out, and it finally went away.  It started with small cramping or squeezing, then got stronger little by little.  Finally, it started disappearing, then went away.  In reality it was no different then any other of the cramping I suffered with, but it was in the left chest, so SCARY!  I remember walking to pick my daughter up from school.  As I am walking, my friend is picking her child up, and I kept grabbing my chest, because it was cramping or squeezing.  She offered to drive me, I said, don't worry, it is the b6 detox, it is something I have UNFORTUNATELY gotten used to.  Well thank goodness, I don't have it anymore!
At this point in time, your difficulty sleeping may just be the whole detox process.  Frankly it is OVERWHELMING and UNCOMFORTABLE!
BODY PAIN was EVERYWHERE!  ESPECIALLY in my LOWER BACK.  My lower back was my weak point before, so it makes sense, that it was attacked the most!  I have scoliosis and stenosis, so I have weak areas, and the were attacked.  But I did have times when my WHOLE BODY was SQUEEZED/CRAMPED at once.  NUTS!
Over 6 months, since totally eliminating b6, no supps, no supp.foods, basically no artificial b6, correct?  I was still awful at 6 months.  I have just started feeling normal at 8-9 months.  I actually have days now where I experience few symptoms.  But it definitely was over 6 months.
I know it is hard, but I am personally giving myself 1 year to feel in the realm of NORMAL!  Forget that 6 months thing.  CRAP!
What exactly do you take now? VITS, SUPPS, MEDS?????
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I really appreciate the time you took to type a detail message the way you did. Thank you
very much. I have it exactly as you wrote it about the symptoms. The questions we all have
to ask ourselves is why did we start taking B6 to began with? And, why didn't we metabolize
the B6 like most other people can? I think it might have something to do with methylation. Maybe we are not methylating our B vitamins especially B6?
My burning and tingling have pretty much stopped almost. I feel confident that this will stop.
What scares me the most are the palpitations with dizziness. Sometimes my blood pressure seems a little high and than it goes back to normal or even low. I am taking magnesium with zinc too. I have a good diet I think. The pain in my body is incredible. It is like a body cast sometimes. Then, mysteriously it just goes away. My doctor who is a ND wants me to take a Whole Food B complex vitamin which is already methylated?
I really don't know what to do. I have a lot of pain chest and lower back pain. My
eyes get blurry at times. Sleeping is very difficult.
So, there  must be reason we all started taking B6? For each of us it will be different, but for some reason we believed we needed B6. In the end we are trying to recover from B6
while trying to find the root cause of thinking we needed it to begin with.
I am scared that I will never have a life again. To me, living is when you don't worry about
your health. Lastly, what makes us think that taking anything that isn't whole food can help us since we thought B6 was going to help and it hurt....
Again, thank you for taking time to answer this post. If you could address the symptoms again while giving hope since it seems you are making progress. My B6 level is normal now, but it was really high before that I was lucky to measure. My doctor still feels my body should have handled the B6 I was taking. Forgot this, I also see eye floaters which are really annoying. Will try not complain after this post. Thank you.
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This is what I meant by a methylator which is whole food. If you have enough of this changes are you can detox faster and use B vitamins better.
Eggs' Choline Reduces Inflammation

People whose diets supplied the highest average intake of choline (found in egg yolk and soybeans), and its metabolite betaine (found naturally in vegetables such as beets and spinach), have levels of inflammatory markers at least 20% lower than subjects with the lowest average intakes, report Greek researchers in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (Detopoulou P, Panagiotakos DB, et al.)

Compared to those whose diets contained 310 mg of choline daily had, on average:

22% lower concentrations of C-reactive protein
26% lower concentrations of interleukin-6
6% lower concentrations of tumor necrosis factor alpha
Compared to those consuming 360 mg per day of betaine had, on average:

10% lower concentrations of homocysteine
19% lower concentrations of C-reactive protein
12% lower concentrations of tumor necrosis factor alpha
Each of these markers of chronic inflammation has been linked to a wide range of conditions including heart disease, osteoporosis, cognitive decline and Alzheimer's, and type-2 diabetes.

In an accompanying editorial in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition entitled, "Is there a new component of the Mediterranean diet that reduces inflammation?," Steven Zeisel from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill noted that choline and betaine work together in the cellular process of methylation, which is not only responsible for the removal of homocysteine, but is involved in turning off the promoter regions of genes involved in inflammation.

"Exposure to oxidative stress is a potent trigger for inflammation. Betaine is formed from choline within the mitochondria , and this oxidation contributes to mitochondrial redox status ," Zeisel continued.

"If the association between choline and betaine and inflammation can be confirmed in studies of other populations, an interesting new dietary approach may be available for reducing chronic diseases associated with inflammation," he concluded.

Recommended daily intakes of choline were set in 1998 at 550 milligrams per day for men and 425 milligrams a day for women. No RDI has been set for betaine, which, since it is a metabolite of choline, is not considered an essential nutrient.

Practical Tip: Egg yolks are the richest source of choline, followed by soybeans. Spinach, beets and whole wheat products are primary sources of betaine. (Olthof MR, van Vliet T, et al. J Nutr)
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Okay still complaining....
Did you get dizzy and feel nauseous at times?
I checked my pulse and it is slightly elevated. My normal resting pulse is 63. I was sitting
and took my pulse and it was 78. Not a lot, yet for me I feel it. My BP was 123/72, I was out
washing the car in the heat wave with my wife. After washing I felt dizzy and ill.
This is an organize list of symptoms:
Burning Calf muscles 2
Tingling Feet 2
Dizziness today 4
Racing pulse 4
Body pain    3
Lower Back Pain 5
Blurred Vision 3
Ringing Ears 3
Sleep 7
Have had other symptoms. These are the ones today.
Tzennifer are you healing and getting better slowly?
Does it happen?
Thanks for listening and as always responding.
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If I was approach by an ND to take a vit with b6, I would not do it.
I would get a privately compounded vitamin based on blood test results of what my body needed, and get the b6 through diet.  But in the end it is a personal choice.
DOES ANYONE ELSE HERE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS????

This is an organize list of symptoms:
Burning Calf muscles 2  Burning, do you mean nerves?
Tingling Feet 2 Of course! Almost gone, replaced by cramps and shocks!
Dizziness today 4 Yes, but rarely.
Racing pulse 4 Absolutely, came, went, came u get the idea...now mostly gone.  My palpations return if I do not take my mag.
Body pain    3 FULL body squeezing...still have pain throughout the body, but MUCH MORE MANAGABLE!  I think that will be with me for a while.
Lower Back Pain 5 ABSOLUTELY!  Still do, comes and goes - LIKE ALL THE SYMPTOMS!  THE CHANGE IS THEY SLOWLY BECOME WEAKER, AND THERE ARE MORE CALMER AND NO SYMPTOMS DAYS.
Blurred Vision 3 NO,  but streaks of light and floaties in my left eye.  One real bad, solid, gray fleck. Got progressively worse, now disappearing.
Ringing Ears 3  Yes.
Sleep 7  ABSOLUTELY sleep issues.  Still have it, but I think it is stress related!
Have had other symptoms. These are the ones today.
Tzennifer are you healing and getting better slowly?  YES
Does it happen? IT BETTER!
Thanks for listening and as always responding.
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Can anyone else respond to Jadeluca about palpations and dizziness, or any of his other symptoms that is very worried about...Jen
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Yes, I  have had heart palipatations, but they are getting better. It is worse in the heat.
However, I don't have some of the symptoms you and Tzennifer have as far as abdominal pain, back pain, blurred vision, burning calves.
My worst is oral/facial/head pain, even ear discomfort, but no ringing in the ears.
My tongue burns like HELL all the time. The nerves in all of my teeth STING, as well as the roof of my mouth and gums and jaw areas. A little facial numbness.
My hands and feet have some tingling, prickling and numbness, even burning sensations at times. Body aches: arms and upper back and headaches that do not go away for days at a time. I can handle everything pretty well except the oral pain. It is my WORST symptom. I have run across many other sufferers with this problem. But we are all different and you may have extreme pain in an area where I have no pain at all. That is what makes this condition so bizarre.
To Tzennifer: what foods do you snack on when you get hungry? Crackers, chips? I ate at a Chinese restaurant on Sunday and have been miserable since then. My pain has elevated me to the point of tears and I have had a severe headache for two days now. Since most foods have B6,  what can we eat that won't cause a horrible, painful relapse?
Also, anyone out there with strange sensations in the ears beside ringing of ears? My ears hurt and feel somewhat uncomfortable. Let me know.......
Thank you and hope everyone will be feeling better soon!!!!!
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Chinese food at most restaurants is not the healthiest.  Probably very inflammatory in nature.  So i am not surprised.  The good ones tend to be tooooo expensive.  We have an issue that I believe that can not take too much inflammatory things.
Snack - fruit, nuts, yogurt, cereal (unsupp!).  And with the summer heat... icecream!
STAY AWAY from CRACKERS and CHIPS!  POISON!   MANY FILLEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD with BAD b6 that will set you back.  I did that, and felt miserable. I HAD ONLY 5 CHIPS!  5!  I was sick for at least a week, on top of what I already was suffering from!
I think you have to go on a diet.  Only fresh stuff.  I do not say organic because it can sometimes be tooo expensive, but not fried, supp, fatty.  Like you are on a good food diet!  Of course, I have dessert too, but not everyday.
I got, and still do, get terrible sensations in my ears.  I refer to them as ear cramps.  I still have them, but they are better.
STAY AWAY FROM NEG. INFLAMMATORY FOODS.
I know it is hard, American is filled with this horrible stuff, EVERYWHERE.
It tastes so good, buy NOT TOOOOOO GOOD FOR US!
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Are fruits and yogurt inflammatory? Or were you saying, those were okay............ I am still not sure what to eat as far as snacks, is popcorn okay? Fruits, nuts? What did you eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner? Could you provide a short list of "safe foods"?

My ears feel weird even numb and my head feels alot of pressure and like it is on fire!!
Today has been absolutely horrible. Awful oral pain, stinging and burning...I  am going out of my mind, when will this torture end!!!! Did you get that way too?? Can't do much of anything except stay in bed and check emails once in a while. HELP!!!! I still have difficulty walking and symptoms seem to intensify after I get out of bed after I have been lying down a while. Nothing eases the pain at all. But  I know I have to watch what to eat, I just don't know what foods are safe.
Thanks, and I hope you are getting better everyday. :-)
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There is a point when this get sooooooooooooo intense.
I am sorry you are suffering.
I suffered differrently - not the HEAD and MOUTH as much - SO IF ANYONE IS HERE THAT SUFFERED SIMILAR TO SUSAN, PLEASE RESPOND.
I know there are readers also that found sites with FOOD LISTS.  I don't have access to that right now.  CAN SOMEONE FORWARD IT TO SUSAN.  Susan I don't think the food I ate made a real difference.  I am talking about natural type foods.  SUPPLEMENTED FOODS made me SICKER!
For anti-inflammatory foods they are listed many places on the NET, too.
I had a book, but I don't have access to that either.  I AM SO SORRY.
PERHAPS ALL THIS NEW TORTURE is a good sign.  Your nerves are WAKING UP A LOT!  This happened to me, on others places of my body.  It was UNCOMFORTABLE TO SAY THE LEAST, and WEIRD!
HANG IN THERE!!!!!!
IF YOU ARE IN A PANIC, did you FIND A PHYSICIAN/MD/ND YOU CAN TRUST?
Are you still taking the FISH OIL?  And the at AMINO ACID Weil recommended?  Check with the ND on CoQ10, Vit D (if your not in the sun).  Perhas ask him for non-inflammatory, cell regeneration support.
Remember that one I sent out, a while back, you may have to back track...created by that (I think) German Dr., perhaps you need to look into that.
But I must tell you, it is TORTURE before it is better.
So, please don't panic, hang in there.
I don't drink cow's milk, I drink goat's milk.  I don't eat cow yogurt, I eat goat yogurt or kefir.  KEFIR IS VERY GOOD HEALTHY STUFF!  I do eat nuts, raw nuts.  I eat raw veggies, and steamed veggies.  I eat lean meat.  Limit the white stuff, be careful of the night shade veggies...BUT THIS IS A PERSONAL CHOICE.  I think I suffered no matter what I ate, BUT I DID SUFFER MORE WITH SUPP. FOODS, CHIPS...you know, unhealthy foods, that somehow, I do not know, had b6 in them.  
THIS IS NOT HELPFUL IS IT.
SO SORRY.  Remember, you adjusted you calendar, because you took b6 again.  Heimen is showing some definitive changes now, and I think he is already at 6 months, or very close, or just pasted. So 6 months to me is not appropriate calendar to follow.  Got to aim for 1 year, to have any sense of positive change.  SO DO NOT PANIC, hang in there!
EVERYONE CHIP IN - write to Susan.  THANKS.
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Hi Jen and THANK YOU for writing back and clearing things up for me. When I hear that the pain is a GOOD sign that things are improving, then since I ALREADY had pain, what is that? Or does the pain change? Just wondering.....
As far as the foods are concerned, I eat berries and greek yogurt for breakfast everyday and drink orgainic cow's milk. I would think eating raw veggies would be worse. I read that B6 is cooked out of foods.
No, I haven't found a Naturopath. I wrote to one that I found, but never heard back. I just read the posts here and use what I can, but the foods are confusing and so are my horrific symptoms.
Did you have unexplained muscles aches? I feel lke my body has aged twenty years. The symptoms are like those of fibromyalgia but I don't have that, but and intense aching in hands, arms, legs and feet? Does anyone have that?
Good to hear from you Jen and thank you for your kindness and support. I would love to hear from anyone who has had similar symptoms and how you got through those difficult days.
Many  blessings and have a great day :-)
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My pain and symptoms changed in type, but were continuous!  it as though the were becoming more advanced.  from the simple pins/needle foot, to the eventually total body pain.
Yes, unexplained body aches. total body squeezing, nerve pain, twitching...etc!  My worst is from my lower back down!
Anyway all normal.
It just I did not have the INTENSE head (upper) issues you are having.  I had it, but not like you.  But all our bodies are different.
Hang in there.
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Someone here asked why people take B6.  For those of use who suffer from anxiety or depression, B6 can be a very helpful supplement, as it's essential to the manufacture of GABA and serotonin.  A problem can arise with any supplement, any food, any medication, because we are all individuals, but one aggravating factor is people taking unbalanced supplements or foods.  B6 is in a close synergy with B12 and folate; if B12 or folate is too low, therefore, B6 levels if you're supplement with it alone can rise to very high levels.  This can happen in vegetarians especially, since they're diet is very low or deficient in B12.  Another problem with people who take a lot of supplements is B6 is added to so many of them, and it can pile up.  One has to be very careful about this.  You think you're just taking 5-HTP, for example, and don't realize there's also B6 in it.  Or you take a relaxation remedy, and don't notice the B6.  And then it's in your multi, and it B complex, and in your food, and some people just overdose.  I don't know why some do and most don't -- for most people, excess B vitamins other than B12 just wash right out of the body in the urine.  It's what makes urine yellow, excess B vitamins washing down the toilet.  But food can be unbalanced as well.  Dairy, for example, while high in calcium is quite deficient in magnesium.  People who fall for the advertising of eating lots of dairy for strong bones are therefore producing weak bones, because magnesium is just as important as the calcium but the calcium is leaching the magnesium out of the body unabsorbed.  As for the question of inflammatory foods, that depends on the person.  Dairy and wheat are the most common, but any food a person is allergic to or has an intolerance will produce inflammation.  Soy is a common allergen, so if you're allergic to it, it'll produce inflammation.  Corn is also high on the list of common allergens.  And these foods, particularly dairy, soy and corn, are hidden in so many foods that people with problems with these foods don't even know they're eating them.  

Now a question -- has anyone tried taking B12 and folate to leach out excess B6?  These three combine to control homocysteine, and are in balance with one another in a healthy body, but if one has too much B6 it might make some sense to try taking folate and B12 to leach it out.  Has this been tried?
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I learned a lot because of  jadeluca's post about methylation. I looked up "methylation" and found several links online. This link was very helpful:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

It said that many people have too many or too few enzymes in their bodies and so not everyone metabolizes foods or things in the same way. This might explain why so many of us here discussing this topic have thyroid issues. The article also discussed histamine levels. I know I, personally, have way too many histamines and that's why I have so many allergies. I wonder if all of these things are related. Perhaps my body is lacking something that digests vitamin B6. I have mentioned here before that taking digestive enzymes with each meal has helped reduce my B6 toxicity pain each time I eat something with B6 in it.

jadeluca, I too have many floaters in my eyes, specifically my right eye. I am not sure if that's related to my B6 toxicity or not. I know I had some before I ever took B6 supplements.

Paxiled, someone on this list (many posts ago) suggested taking B12 and folate. I tried that and did not find that the B12 did anything helpful, nor did it seem to harm me. The folate/B9 actually increasted my B6 pain, though.

I'm going to go ahead and create a MedHelp Group about Vitamin B6 Toxicity. There, we will list our symptoms and what things seem to have helped.
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I've started a Vitamin B6 Toxicity Group here on MedHelp. The group is open to public. Here is the link:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Vitamin-B6-Toxicity/show/864


I've created 4 Discussions. I've answered each with my own personal experiences. Please, add yours as well. Feel free to create more discussions and post questions.
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It's not a question of having too many histamines.  The body produces them as part of a normal immune system response to a perceived harm.  What happens in people with allergies is their immune systems are overactive and the body for whatever reason induces an immune system response to things that aren't in fact harmful to it.  Think of it as sort of akin to an auto-immune disorder, also due to an overactive immune system.  My own opinion is that this is caused by the huge amount of toxins we are subjected to every day now in our industrial age, and the immune system just gets tired and attacks everything.  
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What you have described is what I previously thought about allergies and histamines. It's probably the correct description. My new understanding, based upon the website that I mentioned, enzymestuff, was different. But there was so much information there, all in medical jargon, that it's very likely that I misunderstood.
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Hi all of you, I am now over my 6 month. HAPPY, but I still have problems. My cushionfoo is changing, sometimes gone, sometimes back. My muscles are painfull, the numb parts on my toes also!!! Sometime it feels good, but in the morning, there is again numbness. My theet begin to tingle and there is pain in alle af them, every morning afte waking up, and aboiut three o clock in the afternoon. Then also starts the electricity ans pain in the feet and legs, and mostly within an hour my mood swings into sadness and some depressed feelings. Stitches in the face, gebhind the eyes and sometimes in the throat. Not for days happily, for a few hours, but I is not nice. Now I feel also pain and some cramping in my arms, which I thought they were not affected. All my feet muscles are cramping and the toes are curling contstantly. The extreme weakness I felt in the past months, seems to have been dissapaered or at least is lesser and lesser.
I don't use any multi anymore, what doctor try to say, I learned my lesson.

To Jadelca

I had very bad and awfull nightmares, dreaming stories in wich I was the actor of death. Horrible, very vivid.
They are gone, sleep is (mostly) good. My awfull heartbeating (hope you understand my bad englisch) is mostly gone!! Sometimes in the morning I feel extra heartactivity.
It will stop!!!


This week, for the first time, I was able to run.
So keep the faith!! Tzennifer was of great help for me, sharing her experiences.

greetings.,

Heimen
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Dear Heiman,
Thank you so much for you message today. And, you are right Tzennifer is wonderful. Thank you too Tzennifer.
I have been suffering a lot with much body pain especially in my lower back. I to have been
working out doing Core Performance workouts to strengthen my core. It is so painful. There
is some chest work too in this routine. The next day my chest feels really bad. Yet, I keep
trying to do it everyday with all different exercises.
My Dreams are worst than anything life could offer. They are terrible!!! My heart too beats faster and I can feel it in my chest. So, with the pain, heart, and dreams how can you not get
depressed and anxious which only adds to the intensity of all the symptoms.
Much of the burning and tingling I have had is gone for the most part. The pain however is not gone. I can tolerate the pain in many areas of my body. Although the pain in my back
is the worst. While being toxic I hurt my back so perhaps those nerves are really sensitive to the recovery process. I work with a PT on strength, posture and diet now full time.
I do take Magnesium, and some other minerals to help the healing process. No Vitamins at all... Even though I eat really well I still feel that the extra magnesium and other minerals help. Maybe this why I thought I needed the B6 in the first place.
The other thing that really bothers me are floaters. So, more healing is needed...
Heiman thank you for thinking of me. I was thinking that I was going to write to you today
before seeing your text. I am fifty now, and I just want to live.

Jadeluca
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Forgot to ask you this. Can you explain your energy level now? Pus, I have trained as an athlete most of my life. My heart now races and thumps. Can you explain how your heart has felt and feels now. I am now on my seven month.  My blood level was 90 while the upper limit
was 23.
Thanks,
Jadeluca
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Forgot to ask you this too. Did you get dizzy at all?
Thanks,
Jadeluca

To Tzennifer,
if you would add your thoughts that would be nice too.

Thank you both for your time and understanding,
Jadeluca
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Well my energylevel is improving. Now I can do my normal things, and since my deep depression left, I like to talk to other people again. I feel that there is normal contact with others. During my depression, which was deep, very deep, I didn't feel anything. The only person who could reach me and make me smil was my little grandson. During those period my heart contstantly raced like a formula 1 car racing car. That is gone now. Also I was very anxious, full of fear, contstant thinking that the good years were gone forever. That is passed now. My optimism is coming back, I sleep mostly normal. But I ust tell you that I had a very good therapy, called EMDR. During my bad dreams I was constant dreaming about the ugly things I saw as a policeofficer. Awfull.

So, believe me, your heart will become normal again, because you were healthy!! I have floaters also, but I had them from the time I was a child, I think we mention them because we all are very busy with our bodies and health now.

So, you will be sporting again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep the fait, I will pray for you!!!!!

greeting,

Heimen.
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I share many of your symptoms exactly.
I thought about a month ago I was pulling out of this. And, somehow I have seemed
to return to the scene of the crime :-). When I think the pain is moving on it returns.
So, more time to spend recovering. Do you cycle back and forth as well?

I was thinking when I wrote to you about my symptoms especially my back pain.
I realized for the first time that when I hurt myself I was very toxic with B6. So, perhaps
there area is just more sensitive as the recovery is taking place. Those muscles and nerves
probably are more tender due to that condition.

Thanks for listening...
Jadeluca
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Yes, there was definetly a sort of cycle, and still there is. Especially my moodswings, which are now less and less then a few weeks ago. Sometimes it is hard to keep the faith thtat recovery is nearing, although the sign are clear ponting into healing!!
Hope you understand this terrible english!!

I sleep well, and the dreams are less and less vivid, no more noghmare as I wrote to you.

Running for healing with all of you!!!!

greetings,

Heimen.
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Forgot to answer: No I was not dizzy.

Do you have cushion under your foot/feet?

greetings

Heimen
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I did have this feeling which seems to have almost gone. Yours will be
gone soon too.
Can you describe what your floaters look like. Mine look like little dust balls
with little strings.

Thanks,
Jadeluca
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Hi there,

the floaters look indeed like dustballs. But I had them sinsce I was a child. In hospital, many years ago, they told me they are absolute harmless!!!!!!!!!!!
They are old cells which are floating in the eyeballs and passing the nerves who catch the light. So don't be afraid if you have them!!!! Only when then are there suddenly and many, check your doctor.

About that cushion: My experiences....sometime it it there still, but also it goes away and then then foot feels a bit weird and there is pain on the doenside. And what is special, all my toes are curling and curling, in my muscles are cramps. Not heavy, but continouisly.
Do you still know how long it took for that cushion to dissapear fully?
How is that for you??

Sorry for my poo english..

greetings,

Heimen

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To Jadeluca and Tzennifer,..
About the cushion, ....do you remember the first feeling of change in you cushion? And what do you Jadeluca, feel now, being in your seventh month?
My toes are constantly curling and the cushion comes and goes. Wished it was gone forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Today my energy is low, my legs feel as if they were asleep and slowly weaking up. It costs me a lot of energy bad mood, not depressive happily, and today it is hard to keep faith in recovery.

Is there anyone else with experiece with cushionfeet? please write down your experience.


Is there anyone who can describe how numbness in the extremities is dissapearing?
Someone told me that numbness is the last thing that dissapears? Is anyone of familiar with this?

Yesterday, sudden I felt a big punch into one of my teeth, as if someone was punching me in the face. Someone familiar with that?

Now my arms and hands feel tired and heavy, my thumbs are light cramping,...never had these things.
Please responce if you recognize these things.

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I am having a really bad too. Muscles hurt all over the place. Body hurts all over the place. The feeling of walking on a cushion which for me was like
not really feeling the floor properly only started to disappear lately in my seventh month.
I am quite sad and anxious because as you said it is easy to lose the faith.
And, when you lose the faith were does that leave you...
This is a sad thing. As I mentioned, I also take some magnesium and other
minerals that are suppose to help with the healing. It is very easy to doubt everything at this time.
This is what I meant about cycling through this illness. It is almost like every part of our body has been affected in some way. And, it will have
to heal piece by piece. I really don't know how to keep the faith. What real
answers do we really have?
Jim
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Do you remember when you talked about cracking joints? My shoulders have started to crack. How long does that last for? What did it feel like for you? I must say I hate this.
You really don't know what is going on, or whether you will ever feel well again. The mind
goes all over the place. Just when you have a moment and you feel better somewhat and you think you are doing all the right things now, the body seems to go in reverse. This seems to be worse than the first time when you really became ill. When you feel like okay I am going to
get well again and then you take two steps backwards, you lose all hope. Plus, I don't see how this hasn't affected most of our body parts. Sorry to be so negative to this community.
It is just as Heimen has said, how do you keep the faith?
jadeluca
If other members are looking at these posts and you have recovered please post a comment...
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Hi Jim,

sorry you are suffering so much. Keeping the faith, indeed that is not easy. How is your wife dealing with that? Mine is faithfull and very optimistic, although she is concerned seeing me wrestling with dark thought, thanks for that.

I just past my sixth month and sometimes my cushionfoot is gone, the next day, sometimes within an hour it is back. I have this cushion for over two years. My right foot is most painfull, it weas the first part of my body which was affected. It started 5 years ago with my little toe, prickling and feeling as if some put an string around it. This little toe is coming alive since 3 weeks, painfull.
Some numb parts are stitching, hurting, sometimes there the feeling is back, it comes and goed. Since the cushionfoot is changing, my muscles in my legs are carmping. My toes are contantly curling, light cramps. With my mind I know those are good signs, my feelings are more sad then hopefull sometimes, although I have day with good mood and optimism. I think the lack of extra vits are causing those moodswings.
You are a technician, aren't you, why you don't build a timemachine to look over one year!! Joking!!!

Do you have numb parts in your extremities and are those changing? Please describe this proces for me if you have them?

A few days ago  I mentioned that even my arms and fingers feel weird, heavy and tired. In my breastmuscles there is buzzing. Never ever felt anything there when I used multi's.


Do you have stitches in your face and in your teeth?

My problem in Holland is that I cannot find a doctor who knows sometings about this awfull disease. So I was never diagnosed with B6 toxicity, but all the symptoms were there.
Deep depression, awfull en vivid nightmares, stitching, stabbing, haertbeating like a formula 1 car, bad, bad sleep, very anxious and fatique. Stitches around my mouth, in the face, behind my eyes etc etc. Toothache, in every tooth, not heavy but not nice.
Those last 6 months were horrible, I was not able to work. Some things are much better know, good sleep, no more nightmares, very very little anxiousness now and then, my heart is quit normal, very happy with that.

Wished I could look over 6 months, but we all have to go trough all this mess, don't we.

I am a Christian, which helps me.
I pray for all of us.

Lets keep in contact,

greetings and blessings,

Heimen
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Sorry visiting family.
Been off email.
I will not respond to every symptom...teeth, chest, dizzy, but I want you both to know, I HAD THEM ALL!
YES, unfortunately, I HAD THEM ALL!
They followed a cycle, started, came and went, grew in intensity, became disturbing, then slowly disappeared, multi-locations happening at once, appearing and disappearing at different times, seemingly never a peaceful moment, then gradually, had fewer symptoms, the gradually had, times of less symptoms, less intensity, then actual symptom free.  IT TAKES TIME, TOO MUCH TIME!
I still have sensations in my feet!
To this day.
But not a full cushion.
From what I understand this will take the longest to recover, along with any 'stuff' in your hands.
Extremities are the last to recover.
But it will get better.
AND it will come and go.
Cracking joints still are happening.
For me this really did not happen till AFTER 6 MONTHS.
Some days they just love to crack!
Susan M. had lots of cracking too.
And from what I also can see, it happens everywhere, from head to toes!
Susan can you explain again why this happens.
My floaters are going away.
I only have one left in my left eye.
THIS WAS WEIRD STUFF!
Not painful, but annoying.
Though the shocks behind my eyes, hurt!
It sounds like everyone is healing.
It sounds like everyone is healing SLLLOOOWWWWLLLLYYYY!
May be off medscape a few more days.
Will try to check.
HANG IN THERE EVERYONE.
KEEP HEALING, though I KNOW....SLOWWWLLLLLLLLLY!
Jen
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Thanks for writing a comment in.
I also take magnesium. Lately, though having more palpitations. Scary...
I feel extremely anxious a lot lately and sleep is not good.
Chest hurts on left side as you described. I feel a mess now.
I only take minerals and some digestive enzymes. Most of my tingling and burning sensations much better. My level was at 90 and we assumed I must have been toxic
for two to three years before knowing. A ND that I am working with she feels I am an under-methylator which is why the B6 builds up. I had such a bad night.

Jim
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sorry you had such a hard night.
it totally does happen.
i remember them.
it makes be shutter!
my whole body would be in pain, squeezing, some parts more then others.
once the pain ended, or subsided a bit, the chills would begin.
my body must of been totally inflammed!
hang in there.
it will get better.
jen
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Hi, I took BUSPIRON, a non adictif medicine in times of extreem anxiousness. No danger if driving etc. Very light side-effects, bit headache.
Don't know the Americam medical name, but you can search for it on the internet. My doctor prescribed it for me. It works immediately.

Want to ask you: do you have numbness and is it changing?

My numb part (toes) are hurting much on this moments. I think they are awakeing.

But, bad mood today, not deep depressive, just want to pass this all mess soon. But as Jen told us, it takes TTTTIIIIMMMMEEEE.

Keep up, lets together aim fot healing.

Susan and tracy: keep on going!!


Heimen.
Blessings and greetings.
(I will try also to keep the faith.)

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Having some really tough days... really tough days.
I thought I was totally past my chest and heart feeling funny with chest cramping, and palpitations. Now, it is back worse than ever. How can you stay positive with this.

Can you guys tell me if you went through this where it seemed to get better than got really
intense and seems to now have gotten worse.

Yesterday my left leg and knee was killing me. Today it is gone...

Hope someone can describe what they went through.

Burning and tingling is good right now. It always seems to be something.  Sorry to feel
down and convey that to this forum. I can't help to be anxious about this.

Help,
jadeluca

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Hi Jim,

I can fully understand your fear and discouragement. I also had/have/will have this to.
During the last months I experienced good and bad, very bad periods, it drives you crzay. I t drove me crazy.
But try to look for the very smaal steps forward, for example the cushion in your foor that is going to leave.

Maybe there is someone on this forum who can explain us, why our healing nerves go op and down?? Maybe there is a doctor who reply????

I try to look at those who were feeling the sam anxiousness and fear, but are healed now. Sometimes that is of great help for me, sometimes it doesn' help me.


So we have to deal with this uncertain and bad feelings but please try to hang on.'

I will try, you can do also, everyone has to, we have no choice on our way to HEALING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep your faith, look for psych, help!!
Tzennifer is right: it takes time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pray for you.!!


greetings,

Heimen
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Been trying to posts for several days. I hope this goes through.

Yes, it is very difficult and I, too have been having some very bad, bad days. But I keep reading the posts and what the drs have written to me about this condition and I try to stay encouraged but it isn't easy.
Tzennifer, you asked about bones, ligaments that snap, pop and crack. One dr explained that it is a condition called hypersensitivity parathesias (abnormal conduction of the nerves). He said it could very well be related to the B6, but it takes time, a LONG time for the body to excrete the B6 from the tissues.
Jadeluca, I am sorry to hear that you are having a rough time of it too. Our pain is different but I think the same level of intensity. My worst pain is in my tongue, teeth and roof of my mouth. The pain, burning and numbness in my hands and feet can get pretty bad at times. I also experience the sensation of my blood running through my veins feeling like it is burning!!! Has anyone had that experience? I get tired very easily and my muscles ache. I have great difficulty walking, especially when getting up in the morning...my feet hurt real bad. This is a common symptom.
I don't want to push drugs, but taking Ativan has helped me alot!!!! I couldn't survive the day without it. It helps me to keep my wits when I feel I am going to lose it.
Heimen, I wish there was a dr that would reply to this forum and give us better insight as to how long the healing process takes. But I am sure it would depend on how long we have been taking B6 and how much. My feet used to feel like I was walking on sand. That has gone away. Now they just go numb and burn. If anyone who has recovered, at least 95%, will you please respond and let us know what to expect?
Thank you  and God Bless you all! Susan
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Heimen, Susan, and Jadeluca:
That is the problem.  We do not know what to expect.
I do not even think a doctor can tell you what to expect.
Just look at us.
ALL 4 of us, have had different type of symtpoms, at different levels of discomfort, at different times.
IT SEEMS the b6 has effected us differently.
It depends where the nerves were damaged on each of our bodies.
If you look back on this chat, you will see I listed many, many symptoms.
This symptoms effected me from the top of my head, to the bottom of my feet.
LITERALLY EVER INCH of my body was touch in some way.
The discomfort grew and grew in intensity.
As the number of cells that were healing grew, the intensity of discomfort grew as well.
Heimen, yes your numbness, if like mine, will turn to a different type of thing, pain.  Cramps, stabs, burns, shocks, etc!  Jadeluca, sorry about the chest, but for me it got more intense before it got better.  Make sure you are not also having nervous stomach issues on top of everything else!  I still get some cramping/palpations, not EVEN CLOSE to what it was, but it does remind me, that I had pain/palpations before.  I am sorry you are suffering.  Assuming you are healing like me, it will pass.  If I did remember, everything was checked...heart??? Check with ND about St. John's Wart and SAM-e.
Yes. Oh, and the leg pain, for me, came and went, like everything else! It still does, but not as hurtful.  Everything is still at it's worse at night, but not has bad as it was.  NOT CLOSE!  My right big toe has been shocking me tonight, or is it a stab, but I know it will go away, like it always does...it is just taking a long time!  I am approaching a year, for me this is in October.  There is a def. BIG improvement from last Oct!
Oh, about the popping and cracking, Susan said...
It could be from the toxicity, according to one dr, it is called hypersensitivity parathesias (abnormal conduction of the nerves). It mimicks a clicking sound or popping. Only time will take care of this. He recommended fish oil-DHA.  
Susan that sand bit on the feet, is what I had/have from my hips down. I described it as sand paper!  And I can tell you all, this is dramatically better!  It was so bad, I hated having anything against my skin.  Now this is more tolerable!  
I am not sure if I specifically responded to some questions or not.
Well, me are my symptoms are going to go to bed!
So once again, EVERYONE HANG IN THERE.
At my 6-7 months, maybe even into my 8th, I was HORRIBLE!
HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There has been improvement.
Jen

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Thanks for the post. I am at the 7-8 month now. I am horrible. Everything seems to have
come back feeling worst. Yesterday I started getting palpitations again when I haven't had them for a while. Pain in my legs down through my knees. My lower back stiff. And, sleep just seems impossible. I thought I was through the palpitation stuff along with the chest cramping. I think this is the scariest part when things come back and seem or feel worse.
Did you palpitations or that matter as you have already said seemed to come back with
intensity before getting better.
I do take magnesium with a balance mineral supplement. No vitamins...
Thanks for your time. What part of the country or world do you live in?
Jadeluca
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If you must take a vitamin, then you should read this. This clearly demonstrates how we
poison our bodies with chemical vitamins...

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_4863.cfm

Everything needs to be whole food nutrients including the vitamins...

Jadeluca

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When did you stop taking B6? Your email indicated you stopped in 2005! Have you been suffering for 5 years? Just wondering.....
Susan
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I stopped taking the B6 in Nov of 2009. I had many of the symptoms
including heart palpitations and chest pain. All of which I thought was getting
better until two days ago. A lot of pain and palpitations in the last two days.
I do take magnesium. Hope this helps,
Jadeluca
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As I wrote you: I stopped in febr. 2010. So I just past my sixth month. I forgot to mention that in the e mail.

Feel very tired now. Tzennifer was right as she told me that maybe a few rough months were coming up.

We have to go trough!!!!

Heimen
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Jadeluca:
Well, you are in the period where everything for me went WAAAAAAAAACKO!
WACK, WACK, WACKOOOOOOOOOO!
A LARGE, LARGE BULK of NERVES decided to HEAL AT ONCE, or WAKE UP!
WACKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I thought I was recovering, then it went NUTS.
So hang in there!
What has changed for the better, OR EVEN what symptoms seem to be going more often now.  EVEN IF THEY RETURN, has anything been making a brief disappearing act at all?
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I believe it. As I enter my 5th month, I feel like everything is intensifying to the extreme!!!
For ex., I am having more difficulty walking, feet are aching and buzzing as well as cramping. Oral pain is getting worse and so is my achy muscles. Much more burning sensations all over!! I am even beginning to develop new symptoms....YIKES!!!
But I hang in there like the rest of you do and know better days are ahead.
Thanks everyone. Hope tomorrow is a better day for all of you :-)
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Thanks again for all the feed back and caring you bring to this forum!

Yes somethings are definitely better. For instance, most of my face issues
including my teeth seem to be a lot better. The burning in my legs and tingling in my feet which includes them falling asleep seems to be a lot less.
I hurt my back at the peak of toxicity. This area remains stiff and weak. My legs are very heavy and at times so are my arms. I totally understand the full
body cast you have spoken about. At times my body feels weak restricted and heavy with much pain. Then it leaves. I also have some cracking joints.
The scariest for me is that chest pain with palpitations. A month ago I thought this was gone. Not so! It's back. I also get dizzy sometimes with
a slight headache. Again that weak feeling just comes over me. This comes and goes too. I really thought the head and chest was behind me.
Then, there is the sleep problem. I have such vivid dreams they scare the hell out of me!!! I usually wake in some kind of terror. This happens most nights. If I could hope for two things to improve, it would be my sleep and
lower back stiffness. By the way, this stiffness moves all over the place.
It can be on my right side in the morning then be on the left side a few hours later with this I also get painful weak legs. The weak legs can come
and go within a few hours. Okay, why keep going on? The weakness and pain is just incredible some of the time. It is hard to explain if you don't have it. It is not like normal pain. Lastly, I was to the hospital for kinds of heart testing. It was normal.
It was only when I was at the hospital did I found out by accident by asking my doctor to test me. My level was 90 while the upper limit was
23 for the test. My doctor didn't think much of it. She just said stop taking those vitamins... Thank God for this forum.
Lastly, I must admit the fear component starts to drive the equation at some point because you just don't know in the end how this will go.
I have a big family to take care. I love my family and want to be there for them. It hurts when you meant to do something positive and a big fat negative arrives. I only believe in whole food with whole food supplements.
Even with that you must be careful...

Jadeluca
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Can you just tell me how sore and painful your muscles were?
I was fooling around with my son who is 21. We were wrestling. I moved my arm and shoulder
to block one of his moves and my muscle didn't move right and really hurt. This just has not
happened to me before. I am fifty, but I have always been in great shape. This is just scary.
Something is always malfunctioning... I have also lost weight with this toxicity as well.
This were the fear comes in...
Jadeluca
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My energy level has become almost zero this week. I want to sleep more and more right now.
Still very vivid dreams...
What was your energy like? I hope this is peaking and I will soon get over the hump.

Jadeluca
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Hi J. You are in great suffering. I recognize your feelings about the very vivid and awfull dreams. Suddenly waking up after horrible pictures in your mind is AWFULL. I had that to. I had them during the night, I had them during the day as I wantend to do a nap becuase of my. They are GONE!!!!!! I still have some vivid dreams, but they are no nighmares. Normal things about family, work, just things!
So, believe me, you will sleep well again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I recognize the weakness wich comes and goes. Heavy armsmuscles, legsmuscles....I have thast to.
This is awfull and demolishes all your belief in recovery. (hope I write right English words!!)

Stifness, yes, around the ankles and toes. No nice!!

But, on the other hand: we have it all, and we are all making progress. Everyone is diffrerent, but eve4ryone is making progress.

Keep the faith,

prayers for all of you!!

Heimen
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Hi there, who is familar withc itching of the skin? I am in my 6-7 month and I now have sometime itching feeling around the ankles on the the skin which is very light numb.

greetings,

heimen
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Heimen, I don't know anything about itching, it could possibly be a symptom, but what do you mean by stitches in your teeth? Do you still have it?
Praying for better days ahead...........

Jadeluca, do you take any kind of prescription sleep aid? When I was on ambien, I had very vivid dreams, I still do but not as bad. Now just take ativan with melatonin. I have difficulty sleeping anyway. Hope you will be feeling better soon. Hang in there :-)
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Hi, everybody , t this moment I the slight pain I felt in my teeth, is nearly gone. Also the stitches in my face, on my head, are much less then they were.

Now my affected toes of my right are contstant jerking and curling. La my legsmusckes are in a constant state so alomst cramp. Sometimes they do. Even the muscles under my feet are the same.
All my muscles feel heavy and tired, but manageble.

My cushion is leaving, sometimes feels stiff.
Who recognizes this?
Please respond on this question!!

Greetings,

Heimen
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I too have had the burning, tingling and buzzing. Had it for 18 months. Went to the Mayo clinic for a week came up with nothing. Blood, electro muscular tests, xrays on and on. The suggestion was to cut fats exercise regularly get good sleep. I believe this is the same advice someone who is healthy OR has cancer gets, thanks where can I pay my $10,000 and go home.

In Feb 2010 I heard about W. King Engel who is the director at the USC Keck Neuromuscular department in Los Angeles. It took 3 months to get in. Lots of blood (29 vials), muscle biopsy and a spinal tap.  Verdict...... slight poly neurophy  and some auto immune markers are low but not low enough to treat with steriods or IVIG. We are looking at 2 culprits now but have a baseline numbers for the auto immune issues by doing the spinal tap.

1) B-6 was over 100. Didnt believe him because I was sure Mayo must have tested this, they didnt. Went through all of my tests over the last 2 years and sure enough they were all high. No one questioned it.

2) B-12 not off the chart low but 355. He likes people like us on the high side.

so here is what he has me on:

1) Daily B12 injections until I feel better he feels 1-3 months then go with orals or 1-3 times per week as needed. No big deal grab some loose skin on leg, shoot it in. Will gross your kids out.

2) Follic acid

3) Klonopin .5 (it is point five dosage in case your eyes dont see the decimal)  to allow my body to heal and sleep at night and boy does it. Fingers dont lock up at night, dont feel foot numbness, wow !! and I sleep 7-8.5 hours per night FINALLY. On ambien or Lunesta I could only go 6. I do wake up groggy but a cup of coffee and a b12 shot and I am ready yo go in 15 minutes.

Dr. Engel doesnt want me consuming caffinated drinks as it stimulates the effects. BUT  I have 1 cup of coffee a day period. No ice tea, no diet cokes etc...

I am 90-95 better in about 2 weeks (remember my damage was minor). I can totally live with my new schedule. Played 2 hours of tennis (singles) on Tuesday and the guy I play with says he has never seen me run so well. so thats my 2 cents worth.

On the bad side:
1) The muscle biopsy required 12 stitches
2) The spinal tap gave me the 2 day headache.

If you want to see Dr. Engel be patient, its a slow process. He is considered an expert and has helped lots of people. Very attentive takes lots of notes as he LOVES data and is always trying to organize it into buckets for clinical studies.
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Hi,

Has anyone experienced a lack of sweating in the hands and feet as a result of the B6 toxicity?

Thanks.
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Please scan up the docked to find messages addressed to you.
Thanks,
jadeluca
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Saw your post. So glad to hear you are feeling so much better. I was shocked to hear that the Mayo Clinic did not test your B6 level? Which one did you go to? I went to Jacksonville, Fl and they were the ONLY hospital, and I had been to several, that tested my B6. If only the other hospitals had tested me, I wouldn't have to be going through all this. My level was 139, and it took 4 years before I got a diagnosis.
But anyhow, you are on the road to recovery and that is what's important!
I will never take another B6 supplement as long as I live.
Thank you for sharing your story..........

To: Jadeluca,  Tzennifer is on vacation :-)
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Hi nac, in wich is your level? My level was 115 nMol, but I think in america they use different scale.
I live in Holland.

greetings,

heimen
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I think you ask me specifically about sore dizziness, sore muscles, and exhaustion.
I think I had it all.  I did feel some dizziness, but it was not a major symptoms.
Sore muscles - OH YES!  Sore, popping, cracking, cramping, etc...
If my 5 year pushed me in the hip. thigh, butt area-- I could get a cramp - a terrible jolly horse.
I still get muscle pain/symptoms, and muscle malfunction in that area the most.
And boy THE EXHAUSTION!  Horrible!  That would come and go.  The periods of exhaustion would last about 3-4 days.  Start on day 1, peak on day 2.5-3, and dissappear on about day 4.
And I did notice you were worried about your symptoms coming and going.  Well they will.  AND MINE STILL DO.
The last 4 days my symptoms are back, especially from the belly button down, the pricks are increasing every day!  Intensity, and amount.  But it is still not as bad as it was.  But I had a good number of days symptom free before, I look forward to good number of symptom free days after.
So, this wrestling with your son, and the hurt, doesn't sound so off the wall to me.  I just took my daughter to Sesame Place and was worried about the cramping happening, it can, but it DID NOT!  YEAH!!!!!!!
So hang in there.  If I missed anything, get back to me.
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Hello everybody,
I used 500 mg one a day for 20 day B6 vitamin, and then I used anti-thyroid drug in high dose, I lost all my sence( taste,touch,smell, heat, balance, proprioception, every sense). My central nerve system closed.

A farmacolog explain, you slowed energy cycle in your brain cell,(GABA catabolize in energy cycle). GABA level increased in your brain and also B6 vitamin can play role Glutamat transmission to GABA neurotransmitter. GABA neurotransmitter is a inhibitor (stop the nerve transmission) neurotransmitter in the central nerve system. You are living GABAergic effect in your brain.
Is there anybody who know about this and solution of this stiation??
Please help me i lost my every sense, I need YOUR HELP...

Thanks
Volkan
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Stop using any B6!!!!!!!!!
read all the post so you are informed about the things which are going to happen.
Go for detox and safe your nerves!!!!!

Heimen.
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Thanks for your adives Heimen,but my situation is different. I stop B6 taking already. Your B6 toxicity in your perippheral nerves in your body, my B6 toxicity in my Central Nerve System. One year before, i had lost ALL MY SENSE(even taste, smell), my brain closed. İ used Ritalin for work my brain. There is a strange relationship betveen B6 vitamin and anti-thyroid drug. If I can't find this, my life could be a nigthmare.
If there is a someone can explain this, please write here. I NEED YOUR HELP.

Thanks
Volkan
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I am responding to this request:

"If anyone who has recovered, at least 95%, will you please respond and let us know what to expect?"

I have recovered to about 95% after a TERRIBLE struggle with many of the symptoms you all mention. I posted way back on this thread but I will say again that my levels were over 100 and I was pregnant when diagnosed which made the process even trickier.

Honestly, the 6 month mark of detox was the most painful. I was not substantially better until the 12 month mark and not close to normal until 24 months. Now it is about 4 years and I can exercise again and feel healthy and great!

Occassionally when I am overtired I will have some light buzzing or cramping in my legs. Not enough to bother me too much.

B12 was a BIG part of my healing process. My ND explained that the body uses up lots of B12 when healing the myelin sheaths damaged by the B6. I had my B12 levels tested several months into the healing process and they were low (about 300) You want nice high levels like 800. I took a very pure methylcobalamin B12 sublingual and even got some shots at the beginning.

Also, magnesium (around 800 mg) at bedtime helped a lot with the pain.

I also took extra vitamin D b/c I live somewhere with little son (the NW of the US) and my D levels were low.

So...I don't think that vitamins all together are bad if you take food based, natural vitamins. As a matter of fact, I don't know if I would have gotten better without them.

Feel free to ask any questions about how my healing went. I have chatted quite a bit with Jen from this thread.

Sav
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Did you have any chest pains and dizziness with your recovery?
Also, did you have any back pain?

Thanks,
Jadeluca
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Thank you for answering my earlier posts. Do you remember how long you suffered before you stopped the B6? I suffered for 4 years before  getting diagnosed. My levels were 139.
Thery are now 12 but I  am still having horrific pain, numbness, burning, tingling, cracking, popping and thel list goes on.  I  was asking because, do you think the longer one goes without a diagnosis, the longer the healing process takes? I was only  taking 2  mgs except for a few months between 2007 and Mar 2010 when I saw several drs who put me on EXTRA B vitamins for months at a time.
I  take  acetyl L  carnitine with alpha lapoic acid, fish oil-DHA , methyl B12, Vit D and C.
Did you take B-1?
I am in my 5th month of recovery, so by your calendar I have a little ways  to go.
Thank you for writing. Your info was very helpful to  me and to the others  I am  sure.
Take care and so happy  to hear you are well!!!
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I had all-over body pain with recovery and detox. Not so much dizziness but that sounds normal as well for the body ridding itself of a toxic level of B6.
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I was only toxic for a few months before discovery. I am a typically VERY healthy and also sensitive person so the instant I started having strange symptoms, I went to get it checked out. It took my ND about six weeks to diagnose the problem. I had only been taking the higher dose of B6 for a few months so there is no way I was toxic before that. My levels were over 100 so it got bad fast. The biggest problem for me is that I relapsed. After the first detox and the birth of my baby, my regular DR talked me into taking a prenatal vitamin with a lose dose of B6 in in b/c I was breastfeeding. Within 2 months, my symptoms returned (worse this time) and the blood test showed levels over 100 again. I believe that once you are poisoned by B6, you can't tolerate any amount of the chemical version of it. I would suspect that the longer you were toxic, the worse the damage on your CNS and the longer the healing might take. That being said, you WILL HEAL! Our bodies are truly amazing and given the right support, can recover :)

warmly,
Sav
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Has anyone on the forum ever have any problems with their ears? I DON'T mean ringing in the ears but a fullness or the cartilage of the ear(s) hurting? I don' t know if this is a symptom of B6 or not, all I know is that my ear bone hurts ALL the time.
Write back and let me know if this was a problem for you and also, did it go away???
Thanks!
Hugs, Susan
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Hii,  is there a scientifical explanation fot the return of symptoms after a few good days and especially the bad mood?
Is it a chamical proces maybe??

gr

Heimen
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Heimen,
I think that Jen has mentioned several times in her posts that there will be 3-4 good days then all of a sudden, you will backslide and have 3-4 bad or very bad days. It is normal as we heal. It is the nature of the beast. I don't fully understand it either, maybe it is what we eat, if we are eating foods high in B6.
As for the mood issues, I don't know. Are you in a bad mood or is it anxiety or even depression.?
I think we all experience all three since we are so frustrated with being sick and feeling awful all the time. For some, it has interruped our lives. I know for me, I can't work right now or even spending time with friends is very limited since I don't know how I will feel from one day to the next. I think you understand this. Maybe someone else on the forum can help us to understand this better.....gee, I wish we could get a Medical Dr to join this forum and give us better insight into all of this.
Hang in there! There WILL be better days ahead :-)
Susan
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Hi Susan, you'r right, Jen mentioned this and she is right.

But even knowing this, I also would like to hear from a doctor why this all is happening in our bodies.
A period of good days, changes with bad days. Suddenly, without warning.

One knows that, so I don't feel depressed as I was. That was awfull, that was pure mental darkness. A depressed human being is sick. I am so happy that period passed away. No, there is defintely a great difference between a bad mood and a depression. But that makes a bad mood no nice happening, does it. One can loose his confidence within an hour, that is my experience, especially when you feel new symptoms you never felt before. The first thought is: O,....will it become worse, will it ever stop, am I the only person who will not recover, is this recoverstory not a very bad joke? But when you compare things, there is a new belief in o good future. So sharing our experiences is very good!!!

The big problem for me is that this disease in Holland is totally unknowm. There are few publications, but I cannot find other Dutch sufferers who are inn detox and recovering.

Bad mood, sometimes discourage, that'm s what I feel. My anxienty left a few weeks ago. No more medication needed. I sleep well, some vivid dreams, but not many, no more nightmares. Sometime a little hartbeating, especially in the morning. Not nice, but I know my heart is healthy.

What I don't like is waking up, feeling the numbness again which left the day before. I think a good thing is that the numb parts are becoming to hurt more and more.

There is a lot of electricity going through my feet and legs, painfull stitches and stabbing. Sometimes also in the numb parts. But the normal feeling didn't retunr untill now.
Bad days start with heavy, very heavy feeling in the legs, starting from my back. Tired, intens tired feeling.
The toes of my right foot are contant jerking and curling, they are in connection with the legmuscles who want to go cramping for almost the whole day. I thnkt that this a cause of the tiredness in the legs. The muscles are constant working. My left foot start with the same process. Also my arms and hand feel heavy.

Just past my 6 1/5 month. Still to early I think, Jen told me also. I think she is right. But my bad mood doesn't always wants to belief that.

Greetings for all of you,

Heimen
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Glad to hear things are improving for you. Question for you: What do you mean by "stitches" in your teeth? Describe it to me and do you still have it?
My oral pain is still very, very bad and now my ears are bothering me. I had surgery on my left ear (hole in the superior bone) and that was 9 months ago and it is still giving me trouble and the other ear is too. I don't know how much of this is B6 or just a separate issue altogether.
It is still too early for me, I  guess to see any change, since I am only 5 months into being off B6. Still experience a great deal of pain everyday without relief, and my depression and anxiety fluctuate.
It is amazing how quickly the days seem to fly  by when you are healthy, but when you are sick, each day, each hour drags by ever so slowly. Have you noticed that too? I agree that sharing our experiences is good, therapeutic is the word I like to use. I too, sometimes worry that I will always feel this way and never recover. But then I  shake that negative feeling and try to distract myself and know there is someone who is alot worse off.
Hang in there! And please let me know what you mean by "stitches".
Take care.......S
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Hi Susan, well,  sometimes I feel in different teeth, tooth after tooth, a painfull, light stitch. Short and they follow up to each other. Mostly at the same time I feel prickling in my face. This is more and more less then in my 4 or 5 month.

I didn't have pain in one ore both ears, only I felt some stitches aroud the edge of my ears. Not very painfull, and not very often.

Hoping and waiting for better times for all of us,

Heimen
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Everyone must be doing well since no new posts. I am having some really tough days with
muscle pains up and down my back including neck...

Jadeluca
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Sorry to hear that. I had muscle pain too as well as neck pains, I think it is the B6, but I got a couple massages for relief.
How long have you been off the B6? I am at 5 1/2 months into recovery and still having bad and very bad days.
Make sure you are not taking anything with B6 and eat whole, nutrional foods. Drink alot of water, since the pyrodoxine is excreted through the urine.
Are you taking any supplements like methyl b-12 to help with nerve pain?
Hope you will be having better days...:-)
Susan
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I'm 31, I've been fighting symptoms for over a year and a half. My symptoms mostly involved unsteadiness and imbalance in the beginning. I received an MRI and CT scan to rule out tumors and MS. I gave up trying to figure out what this was on 2009, but returned to the doctor in April 2010 when I started getting worse.

This year, I determined that I was experiencing subclinical hypothyroidism, but all doctors agreed it wasn't bad enough to cause all my issues. I received temporary treatment until my thyroid levels came back into normal range. My GP had previously found my B6 level to be a 96 when the normal range is 5 to 30. He blew it off and didn't think it was causing my problems. I also realized had stated taking a whole food multivitamin in March 2010 that had 25mg of B6. All my symptoms got worse and new ones appeared.

I called my Neurologist and he had me take another B6 test while fasting. It was now at 100 (a couple months after the first test). He told me to stop taking B6 supplements and stop eating fortified foods.

I stopped all B6 except what occurs naturally in food. My current symptoms are:

- Imbalance comes and goes but it occurs every day
- I've had a lot of trouble focusing on the computer screen. It has gotten somewhat better. Sometimes I feel wobbly in my chair and find it hard to sit steadily upright.
- Trouble remembering details from the previous day.
- trouble focusing mentally. I feel confused at times. It does seem to be getting better.
- cold numb hands and feet
- When my forearms get cold (like when the air conditioner kicks on) my forearms burn
- Sensitivity to bright light and sounds
- Ear ringing constantly which drives me nuts
- I have a lot of tremors and buzzing feelings. My teeth chatter a lot.
- Alcohol makes me feel much worse.
- Fatigue, I fight hard to keep exercising but at times I'm just too tired.
- Mood swings, I think this is stress and frustration based
- Depression from fighting this so long.

I took Magnesium (Natural Calm) for a couple of months to help but I think it was making me worse so I stopped it recently since I get a lot from my diet.

I gave up multivitamins and currently take B1, B5, Folic Acid, Methyl-B12, Vitamin E, Fish Oil and Vitamin D.

I'm wondering if others have these symptoms and haven't associated them with B6 Toxicity? I assume all of it can occur because of nerve damage.

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Welcome to the forum! First of all, when did you stop the B6? If you have read some of the previous posts, this condition is a very tricky one, and everyone is different. Our symptoms can vary in degree and intensity. Some remain constant and others come and go.
I have the burning like you but I haven't noticed a mental confusion. Depression is common with this condition because we are battling this every hour of every day and it is hard to live life to the fullest when we are feeling so miserable.
I have written to several drs about this topic. I  have been told to stay off B6 supplements and to allow 6mos to 36 months for healing. Also, Dr Andrew Weil suggested acetyl L carnitine with alpha lipoic acid and omega fish oil-DHA, and I  too take methyl B12.
Pray alot and know that you will get better but it does take time, alot of time and patience.
It might help you to read the posts from others suffering.
We are here to help you and encourage you.
Write again and let us know how you are doing.......:-)
Susan
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Hi J, did you change your e-mailadress? Cannot reach you. Please reply

Heimen
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no my email is the same...
try again I would like to hear from you.
J
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This is my first post.  My son's first B-6 test came back 199.  His doctor said she had never seen any test result this high.  This was in April of this year.  We are awaiting another result from the Quest Lab.  My son has lots of sleep issues ( trouble falling asleep & screaming in his sleep), He primarily has CNS problems with anxiety, attention, depression.  I've read many of your posts and they are very helpful.  Last January we went to the Pfeiffer Clinic in Chicago.  We believe Mike to have a problem with undermythelation.  We have since stopped all B-6 supplements. Mike also has a Lot of congestion in his head.  His head has a "stuck" feeling often behind the ears.  Once in a while it feels like an egg dripping down his head and it moves around.  Mike has Lyme disease and some co-infections so it is difficult to know what is causing what symptom.  In any case the repair to the myleon sheathes is needed.  He is on B-5, a high quality fish oil, lipoic acid, GABA, inositol among many other things. (The GABA and inositol is to address his extremely high anxiety level. He was on Ativan and he is off this.  Thanks for all your posts.  Enough of you have mentioned sleep and CNS problems that it alerts me to B-6 toxicity being a player in his problems.  He has very little physical pain, just a little shoulder cramping.   Does anyone else have the congestion, brain fog and egg dripping sensation?  Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks for the response. I stopped all B6 about 6 weeks ago. I'm waiting on some subsequent test results from last week to find out how much it has fallen.

The burning in my arms and legs mostly occurs when I'm in an air conditioned room. Being outside in the sun actually makes it feel much better. It's so weird.

My confusion may stem from anxiety. I'm trying mentally to just not think about the pain. It seems to be helping a bit.
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Tator, you are lucky in my eyes. I was lost all my sense( touch, smell, taste, proprioception, pain, hungerness, tiredness, balance, sleeping, no heartbeat, heat) I supposed my soul  abandon from my body. Also my brain slow down, i can't talk fastly, i can't walk, where are my legs?

I used 500 mcg in a day, nothing changed, but after usage of B6 vitamin supplement, i used anti-thyroid drugs(propycil) high dosage. My metabolism slown down, then this event occured.

I tell everybody about B6 toxicity, but my stupid family and stupid Turkish Doctors did'nt understand anything. In Turkey, nobody familiar with B6 Toxicity.  Everybody thinking about me going mad.

You know what is going on in your body, but I don't. I'm living one year with this situation. How long it will take, when will my sense return back?

You are lucky, there is nobody can help me, I'm %50 persantage death.
I'm unlucky, because of I'm living in an undeveloped country. Undeveloped brains. Nobody care about me, nobody hear me.

Volkan
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Volkan,

aIt might taka a long time, and symptoms may get worse first, but there will a time of healing.
One of the first things wich return is that you feel your legs again. This is called ataxia. I had this too in anonther form. It was very quick dissapeared.
So watch your legs! It is the first sign of healing.
Keep up!!!!!!!!!
I live in Holland, also my doctors didn't know about b6. It does not exist they said.
Now in the university of Utrecht they are examining this strange disease.
greetings,

Heimen
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Thank you for your effort giving me morale. But you don't  how I'm a miserable now. I tell everybody time to time but, my stupid parents laid me hospital for mental diseases. and then inject me physcotic drugs. My brain was closed. They will not send me money for my school expense. My suffer increasing. I can't complete my undergrade program which mechanical engineering. Alot of lesson waiting for me.

I need solution. I was a long distance runner once upon a time. Now, I'm a psycho who can't feel body...

Volkan
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Heimen,
How can I contribute to examination which at university of Utrecht?
I can do everything.

Tell me

Volkan
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Hi! I am so sorry to hear that you are suffering so much. I want to assure you that you are not alone. We are all suffering and in different ways and degrees of intensity. The important thing to remember is STAY AWAY  FROM ANY B6 SUPPLEMENTATION. Eat healthy as much as you can and drink alot of water.
How did you find out you were toxic? What were your levels? How long since you stopped taking B6 (that is, assuming you have stopped)?
I stopped last Nov when I got my diagnosis, but relasped in Mar when I took a supplement with B6. It took  me 4 years to get a diagnosis. I am an American and live near some of the  best medical institutions,  but they never checked my B6. They thought it was all in my head and put me on anit-depressants. For a time I did think I was living in the Twilight Zone. Over time, I couldn't work and had to resign and move in with my father. It is  a humbling experience. Finally,  I went to the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville,  Florida and they told me my  levels were 139. So, I am happy and very relieved to know that it is NOT in my head and that I have an official diagnosis. However, some people still look at me like I don't know what I am talking about and even my own family physician has never heard of this condition. The owner of the health food store that I do most of my shopping, asked me how  could I get a toxicity from a water soluble vitamin?
My point is, it doesn't matter whether  they  understand it or not, the important thing is: YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. Your body has been poisoned, but the GOOD news is that you WILL recover from this but it takes time......a  LONG time. A few drs that  I have corresponded with have told me that it takes anywhere from 6months to  36 months.
Can you find Omega 3 fish oil-DHA and  acetyl L carnitine with  alpha lipoic acid? Also, take methyl B12 sublingual. These were recommended for me to take to assist with healing. I am at the beginning of my  6 month of recovery and I am still having bad days with my nerve pain, difficulty walking, muscles aches, joints popping, fatigue and much more.
Please remember that we are here for you to make your journey back to recovery as comfortable for you as possible. We care about you and I will say prayers for you as well. Let me add that one dr told me that it is a rare phenomenon and some doctors don't believe it even exists!!! Even here in America, some of the professionals in the health care system have never heard of it and I saw 6 neurologists and not a single one tested me for B6, so it is not uncommon that physicians are clueless about it. The material is out there, they just don't read it!!!
Take care and I hope you are feeling better soon :-)
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Look at the site of UMC neurpaty. But it is very difficult to get there, I warn you for that.
I myself try to get there, it is realy not easy.

Keep up, once the B6 is out of your body, the rough time begins, but also the healing!!
keep up!! We all must keeo up, feeling miserable, painful, anxious, depressde, sometimes hopeless.

Try to be strong!!

Heimen
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I'm a little different from you. I have no pain. I can't feel lots of senseation. I suppose my toxicty occured in my somatic nerve in my brain. First, I supposed this situation due to anti-thyroid drug, but after my memory return back, i remember i used B1,B6,B12 complex, i saw a web site excess of B6 vitamin can cause temprory deadining nerve...
I used 500 mcg in a day for 21 day. And then my stupid doctor gave me 250 mcg for 35 days again. November 2009, I stopped taking B6. After 10 months, my touch, taste, smell, heat, balance senses return back. Still there is no voice from my internal organs and muscles. I have no pain, no hungerness, tiredness. This is called proprioception I suppose.

No hospital looking B6 level. Just I can test in special labs who expensive price. Should I test my B6 level? Can it change something? I don't know. After a lot of test, my family will not permission B6 test.

But I can say easily, B6 toxicity can only emerge slow metabolism. I'm the most obvious example.

I have a suspect, my metabolism maybe still slow, but it doesn't seen blood test (TSH, T3,T4 hormones).

Thank you for your attention and giving effort me morale.




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Is everyone doing okay? Just checking in.............haven't seen any new posts in awhile.
Hoping for better days ahead :-)
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Hi Susan,
When things don't change and you continue to try things, or when you get the smallest little window of relief and your hope soars then fades with the same old thing, it is difficult to remain positive. I thought I had a small window earlier this week which closed up.  Sorry for not giving a more positive report. I have started trying transdermal magnesium. See how that goes...

Jadeluca
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What is transmdermal magnesium? Have you tried methyl B 12, sublingual form? (I buy Jarrow's formula). Your body uses up alot of B 12 as the nerves heal. Fish Oil -DHA is good too.
Keep us posted and hang in there! Better days are coming.........:-)
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Hi everyone, indeed less postings. It is a very weird disease. It brings you bad things.
'My numb parts are very tough, although they show more activity inside. Pain and prickling. Lots of stabbing in both feet. Hope those are the good signs of revovering nerves. And waiting, waiting, waiting.

My mood is mostly good nowadays, I am able to work a few hours a day. Somteimes bad moments during the day, but I feel also very good days.

Will we heal, well let's not loose hope. I think that B6 toxicity is awfull, but is maybe the only cuase of neuropatihie wich can be taken away. That means that some day we will be healed or at least the neurpaty will stop.

Blessings and greetings,

Heimen
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You are so right. We should never lose hope. At least we have something that we know we will overcome rather than have a degenerative disease where we continue to decline.
Some days I feel more hopeful than others and it is then that I can get out and run my errands.
My symptoms are changing, I  don't know if that is a good thing. It is weird and I really think I could handle this better if it was anywhere but in my  tongue, gums and teeth.
Those areas are so sensitive anyway that any additional pain just makes it less tolerable
But I  will stop being negative and try to remember that this is all part of the healing process and we must go  through it.
It helps to keep in touch and encourage each other.
And know better days  ARE COMING!
Hugs,
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tator750, thanks for mentioning the normal B6 level range! My Dr never told me. All I knew was that my B6 level was 47 when I asked them to test it. And they weren't worried. But nothing that I've heard of, other than B6 Toxicity, explains my pain.


I've been off B6 and Folic Acid completely for 11 months now. I still have constant tingling in my hands, feet and breasts. They always feel like after a body part falls asleep and you start trying to move it again. Like someone's shooting nails into you with a nail gun. Very painful. Interestingly, my hands and feet seem to be getting worse lately, but hopefully that will subside soon. I'm so sick of being in this pain. I've had it since 2007. I know you can all relate.

Heimen "Pain and prickling. Lots of stabbing in both feet. Hope those are the good signs of recovering nerves. And waiting, waiting, waiting." Yes, that's exactly where I am, too.

I was reading an article in MIT's "Technology Review" magazine tonight and one part of the article said something about how there is fatty tissue which insulates nerves. It reminded me of something I read once about how B6 is stored in fat. Now, I'm wondering if a lot of our pain is caused by this fatty tissue which insulates the nerves. I didn't know there was fatty tissue around nerves. It makes me wonder if we lost tons of weight and body fat, if that would make our symptoms go away faster. Has anyone had any experience with pain decreasing more quickly because of weight loss?

einy, I've had congestion all my life (allergic rhinitis), so it's hard to know if B6 has affected me that way, sorry.

tator750 and smorris0312, I have greater pain when I'm cold, too. I'm told that's common of neurological problems - that cold and vibrations increase the pain.

vardic, I don't find that US doctors know much about B6 toxicity either. Most of them look at me like I'm insane when I mention what I have. They must think I'm making it up to get attention or something. I'm sorry your mechanical engineering education has been put on hold. That's what I got my bachelors degree in. I don't know much about all this medical stuff.

smorris0312 "owner of the health food store that I do most of my shopping, asked me how  could I get a toxicity from a water soluble vitamin?" YES. I've been asked the same question by a nutritionist at the local organic food store! I told her that unlike vitamin C, your body doesn't necessarily get rid of the excess. I think she thought I was insane.

I try to tell many people about Vitamin B6 Toxicity just to make them aware that it's not as rare as they think. Speaking of which, here's a MedHelp group that I created for us, if you're not already aware of it:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Vitamin-B6-Toxicity/show/864
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I think you and I have similar symptoms at least when it comes to  nerve pain. Like you, I have excruciating pain CONSTANTLY, but it is in my tongue, gums, teeth, hands and feet. It is worse after eating or after walking or sitting for long periods of time. In the morning, I can barely  walk because my feet hurt so, so bad. But after a while it eases up. My oral pain is the worst and changing, it seems to be intensifying as I am in my 6th month of recovery. I guess I have a long way to go yet. I eat foods with B6 but cannot tell a difference. Why are some days much worse than others, I don't know.
The waiting is the hardest. I just take it one day at a time like everyone one else.
Did you go through a period where you thought your symptoms were getting worse before getting better? Is this normal? Some of  the others on the forum said they got worse before getting better.
I am hoping for better days ahead.
I also have numbness, muscle aches and snapping, popping and cracking in my joints all over my body. Very weird. My face has been hurting like I have been hit in the face. It hurts for me to talk because of the intensity of my  oral pain and the muscles around my  face are tight and burn. Has anyone experienced this? I  would like to hear from you.
I am glad you started the Medhelp group. It has been very helpful.
Have a great day!
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Don't get too hung up on a number value on the B6 level.  The important part is the normal values reported with the test result and see if your value is high.  There can be different normal values depending on the method used to analyse the B6.  Some tests like hemoglobin will have a normal that is more standard while chemistry testing can have vastly different values depending on the testing procedure employed.  Plasma levels of B6 come down real fast but the problem is the toxin that has gone into your tissues because your body has not processed it properly. Your plasma B6 can be normal but the symptoms persist for a long time if you became toxic.
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That "fatty" substance that surrounds the nerves is called the myelin sheath.  It protects the nerves much as insulation around electrical wiring.  If that sheath is comprimised, the result is neuropathy.  Fortunately, the sheath has the ability to regenerate.  But some people are unable to regenerate it because of ongoing damage.  I don't think B6 toxicity alone would permanently damage the sheath but as you have indicated before, it takes a long time for nerves to heal.  Not all of the nerves have myelin; the small nerves on the skin are unmyelinated.
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Please give me some information about this:

Before I stopped, febr 2010, I didn't have problems with my hands.
Now, in my 8 month, my fingers get involved.
Does anyone recognize this? I don't see any progress. My numbness is less in the evening, comes back after waking up.
Prickling in my face and theet returned.
My ankles feels stiff. My legs fgeel tired and heavy.
All symptoms of increasing neuropathy, so it seems.

I am scared!!

Please respond!!


Heimen

Heimen
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Hi! I think you are okay. Try not to panic. I, too have developed NEW symptoms that I didn't have before, so I think it is part of the healing process. Meganamy, Jen, or Samvay, could you verify this?
I think we develop new symptoms as we download the pyrodoxine. I know it sounds weird, but it is all I can think of. I sure wish there was a doctor out there who reads this forum and can help us to better understand what we should expect as we heal from this condition. Hopefully one of the others can answer your question Heimen. I am still in the early stages of healing and changes are taking place, so far, nothing good, only new places aching, burning or stinging in places that didn't bother me before. Maybe it IS normal. Can someone help Heimen? Please respond.
Take care Heimen. Sending prayers your way.......:-)
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Great Susan, thanks.
This is a very bad period in my life.
But I know we all have to carry on, just waiting, waiting, waiting.

Heimen
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Hi,
I have recently diagnosed with Vit. B6 toxicity (from sea food and B complex supplement) and some heavy metal poisoning (sea food).

My main complain was joint pain / popping, muscle twitching, weakness etc and after i stopped supplement, i started having other issues, joint pain got severe, tingling started, muscle twitching increased, and I become unable to work anymore. I can't even drive my car now.

It has been two weeks since i stopped Vit B Complex and started diet with low Vit B6. My level was 187 ng/mL while it should be under 21 according to my Doctor. I am going to see a neurologist this week.

I remember, i have taken sea food (salmon, 1 serving 3-4 times a week) and B-Complex Supplement for two months only.

How much do you think it may take for me to get better? what i am hearing from here that it may take 6 to 36 months. Man! that is a lot.

My doctor says i should not take *any* vitamin supplement or pain medicine. While what i am hearing here, is that people do take supplements and Vitamins to boost up the healing process.

I would highly appreciate if you can recommend me what should i do? and what should I say to my neurologist if he doesn't know about Vit B6 toxicity (i have had this experience here in US, where very few doctor know about this, in fact, my doctor checked vit B6 thinking that it may be low).

I would highly appreciate your help.
Thanks,
Ghaznawi
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Welcome to our forum. Glad to hear you got a diagnosis. Truthfully, all I can tell you is that some people take nothing at all and let their bodies heal naturally. I am taking methyl B12 (sublingual form) Jarrow's formula, fish oil-DHA, and acetyl L carnitine with alpha lipoic acid on the recommendation of Dr Andrew Weil. As far as how long it takes your body to heal will probably depend on how much you took and how long you took it and probably how high your levels were. Waiting is the hardest for all of us. As for me, it seems like things are getting a whole lot worse now and like you, I had to resign from my job.
It really cramps your lifestyle. I would advise not taking any supplementation of B6, so let your pharmacist know this because I think pyrodoxine could be in meds, although I am not positive. I have a question for you...........why did your dr tell you to stop taking pain meds?I
Just curious. I take aspirin daily  as I have head pains and body aches everyday and it helps me get out of bed.
You are right. Not many drs know about this and one dr told me that B6 DEFIENCY can cause neuropathic pain as well.
I woud really be to your advantage to take your time and read everyone who has posted. It will help you understand how it has affected us and what we have tried to help ourselves.
We are here to help you and encourage you as you go through this journey. You will not be alone. I hope this has helped you in some way.
STAY POSITIVE,,,,better days are coming!!!!!   Susan
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Thanks Susan for your kind reply. I hope you are doing good.

Probably my doctor recommended me not to take any pain medicines because i was having some stomach issues. But I could not resist the pain and some time i take tylenol or ibuprofen.

Did your doctor give you prescription for acetyl L carnitine with alpha lipoic acid? or they are available over the counter? what is the strength of Vit B12 you take? I am gonna see a neurologist coming thursday and will discuss these options with him.

I can't beleive that very few doctors are aware of this condition. I am in this state because of stupid doctors who initially keep guessing that it may be arthritis, or firbomyalgia or celiac  etc etc. and unfortunately, while they were in guess game, they put me on B-Complex supplement without even knowing my B6 level. Finally, a Rheumatologist did a lot of blood tests and he did B6 thinking that it may be low but it came back otherwise.

I have only taken B-Complex for two months or a bit less. now i have stopped it for last 2 weeks. interestingly, tingling, numbness and severe pain came after that with increased twitching and popping. I have had one episode of severe dizziness as well. Now, I am on a very strict diet. I only take goat meat (as it has relatively less B6 than other meats like lamb, chiken beef etc) with rice, 1/2 apple a day,1-2 cups of tea, few spoons of yogurt, some time mung split soupe etc. Kindly let me know if I need to adjust the diet in any way.

Lastly, thank you so much for your reply. I hope everyone feel better soon and get out of this mess.
Regards,
Ghaznawi

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Good morning! No, you do not need a prescription for acetyl L carnitine with alpha lipoic acid. I prefer to order all my supplements online because it is cheaper. I order from iherb.com. I then click on "J" for Jarrow's. I order acetyl L carnitine with alpha lipoic acid, it is 500 mgs. I order the Jarrows fish oil-DHA (this is a must from Dr Weil) as well as methyl B12 (1000 mg). I take the fish oil and acetly  L carnitine twice a day, morning and night and the B12, just once a day,,, just put it under your tongue.
If your neurologists is  anything like the ones I have seen, they don't know about supplements for healing. The  neurologists thought I had trigiminal neuralgia because at the very beginning, my symptoms were just in my mouth and face. Then they thought I had MS. And finally they felt that I was depressed and that my oral pain was brought on by  a psychosematic illness. I  said, so  how do you explain my  feet turning purple??
I do know that there is not much you can do for pain, at least nothing that has worked for me. I have tried them all. As I said before in an earlier posts. I take ativan (prescription) and it helps me with pain. I don't know how it works but it does.
I saw close to 20 doctors before one hospital decided to check my B6 level. I looked at my  previous labs and nobody  ever checked it until then. Sometimes I get upset when I think of how many times my  blood was drawn as they were looking for something, but never found anything. I am glad I never gave up. My family dr told me to "learn to live with it". That is when I decided I  needed a new dr.
Well,  I am getting a little carrried away,  but just  wanted to tell you that as far as food is concerned, I try to avoid foods high in B6,  but if  I  eat them, I can't tell a difference. Drink alot of water. And get plenty of rest. And most of all try to STAY  POSITIVE.
Have a great day!
Susan
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smorris0312, I do seem to be having worsening of some symptoms while others are lessening. The constant breast pain seems to be lessening but the tingling in my hands seems to be getting slightly worse. Or else, I'm just noticing it more because I'm not so focused on the breast pain. Interestingly, all the pain on the left side of my body is a bit worse than the right. My right breast is not as painful as the left, my right hand is not as tingly as the left.

ranger853, one of the 18 Drs I saw for this condition, a naturopath, said that she was surprised that I didn't have constant headaches. She said that if the damage or B6 buildup were in the fat cells, that my head should always hurt too. Apparently, breasts and brains have the most fat cells in the body. I wonder if the fact that not all nerves have myelin sheaths explains this discrepancy in pain.


Heimen, in the past year or so, I have noticed that I've had more muscle weakness, in the form of fine motor problems. For example, I can lift heavy things, so I'm not weak that way. But I don't have precision. If I'm going to bend over to pick something up, I have to brace myself on a table or stabilize myself somehow and slowly bend over. If I move too quickly, I lose balance and muscle control and fall over. I look perfectly healthy, but I have to be very slow and focused when I move too much or else I drop things or lose my balance. I don't remember this being an issue when I was on the B6 vitamins, so I'm not sure if it's part of the healing process or unrelated. For what it's worth, I'm 35 years old, so I don't think that age is a factor. I'm keeping an eye on it. It does not seem to be getting worse. It does seem related to muscle use because I'm better early in the morning and have more issues as I get more tired or if I've walked too much.
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Thanks for your answer. I am now in my 8 month. Sometimes it seems to go better, sometimes, not. It is all very confusing. I remember Tzennifer mentioned that she didn't made any progress until the 9 month. So I hope that it will be the same to me.
There were some changes but I cannot figure out if those are the better or the worse things.
More pain, stabbing, changing cushionfoot, sometimes the skin comes alive on my toes, sometimes it os gone. Changing weakness. Sometimes pain in the numb parts, then within a few minutes all can be back.

Still searching for someone who can tell me someting about his or her experience with numbness. Did it go first, did it leave last, how was that process? How long did it take for the numbness to leave....lots of questions.

Wish you all the best and pray for you all.

Heimen
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Hi Jen! I have tried 3 times to reply to your email,  but it will not go through. Thank you for sharing that info with me.  I am  confused by  the first statement, When you take too high a level  of  B6............All I was taking was a children's chewable Flinstone vitamin, 2mgs a day. I know I also had Centrum,  which also had no more than 2mgs. So maybe, it really doesn't matter the dosage, it is just that our bodies cannot download the B6 at any amount.
1 mm a day??!!! Oh My Gosh!!!!! No wonder we are miserable for so long.
That info was very useful and helped me to better understand what has happened,  why  it  happened and what can be done and what to expect in terms of  the healing process.
I  am approaching my 7 th month of recovery. I see a little improvement maybe just 1mm!!!
I hope all is well with you. Better days are coming!!!!!
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Meganamy:
Very interesting...She said that if the damage or B6 buildup were in the fat cells, that my head should always hurt too. Apparently, breasts and brains have the most fat cells in the body. I wonder if the fact that not all nerves have myelin sheaths explains this discrepancy in pain.
My understanding is that b6 toxicity is this....(Susan, Heiman, Jim...repeat!)
We get plenty from a healthy diet.  When you take a (too high) vitamin b6, and there is an overload of b6, our body somehow looses the ability to excrete the b6.  It is stored in our muscle and fat throughout our body!  This fat includes the fat around our nerve cells.  This cause the destruction/erosion of the nerve cell receptors or the sheath coating.  In turn, this causes the various muscle difficulties - like your difficulty walking -- PLUS the million other nerve related symptoms.  So, we stop the b6, the excretion process is able to begin, and eventually balance itself out, because it is after all water soluble.  That is why recovery is said to be possible, if done in a timely manner. Sometimes nerve damage can remain, due to the fact the nerve is beyond repair or dead.  Put this has been mentioned many times as rare -- usually a diagnosis (by elimination) is made.  The excretion process is usually the easy part.  It is the nerve cell part that is the difficult part.  Because we have millions of nerves, and each of them all of many receptors!  And all these control our body functions and movements!  Now, the process of cell regeneration/repair is extremely slow.  So slow, it makes me want to scream.   A mm a day.  Probably worse then that, I just can not remember!  But the protective sheath, which we have unwittingly destroyed, has to repair itself!  Thus the symptoms improve, slowly, the symptoms themselves get fewer, slowly, but at the same time more intense!
Does this sound correct?  Could you fill in the gaps.
Susan:
I would agree, everyone's body is different.  Somewhere back, sometime here, someone posted that their doctor had believed that some have a greater predisposition to this type of toxicity.  Perhaps, that is true.
Look back on the articles I sent you, is there one about how b6 actually effects the receptors of the nerves.  I wanted to see that, and I don't have it here with me on this computer.  If you find it forward it to Meganamy.
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Hello everybody,
I did B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosfat) test, and my level shows 33 ug/L (normal value must be 3.6 - 18 ug/L). I'm the eleventh (11.) month giving up B6 supplement. Still i can't understand why my numbness carry on every part of my body? I can't feel lots of sense, no pain, no tiredness, no hungerness, muscle situation...etc. What is it?

Is there no one else feel like me?
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I think Heimen also has issues with numbness. It makes me think that that symptom level (numbness) is even more B6 toxic than just having pain. And that when the body heals, you and Heimen will have more feeling and more pain until it finally all goes away. I never seemed to have sleep issues from B6, however, I've always had weird sleep habits, so it's hard to tell what the B6 toxicity has affected. My appetite (hungryness) has never been affected. And until recently, I didn't really notice muscle issues either.

Tzennifer, fascinating information! Thanks for sharing. I think you may be on to something!!

5 years ago, before my B6 toxicity, I had a ganglion cyst removed from my left wrist, and they had to remove some nerves, too. They cut about 3mm of the nerves off. The nerves regenerated at a rapid rate. I'd say by about 12 weeks after surgery, my left wrist was 100% normal again!
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NUMBNESS
We must be clear when saying one is numb.
I was numb too.  But numb in the sense of a 'sleeping foot' type numb.
I had so many pins and needles, it developed a type of cushion in the foot, a numbness.  Despite the fact I had it, I could still poke a pin in my foot
<>
and feel it completely.  The sensation was not as great as the other foot, but it was felt -- that was a good thing.  Though walking was a bit weird!
Then there is complete numbness!  Like the kind after a dentist gives you a shot, no feeling what so ever!  And there are no nerve sensations at all.

Vardic why are your b6 still up?
What are you taking exactly now?
Vitamins? Herbs? Medications?
Anything?
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Numbness: My numbness is around my two big toes. Sometimes is feels totall numb, no sense. Stil there is life in in it, poking with a pin gives result, a sense of feeling. Now, from until july 2010, after 6 months after stopping, there are stitches, pain, prickling in those parts. Last few weeks, sometimes it looks there is some progress. The skin give reaction, pain comes through. However every moring, numbness is back, but directly after wakening up, stiching starts. During the day I can feel ( very very slight) my skin again. Does anyone recognize that?

Tzen: have you got new information? Please send it through.

About two weeks ago, I mentioned that my toes from the right foot, begin to work more together, very little, but it seems there is progress. New is that my big toe and the toe right next to this, sometimes plop, after then they feel more free in movement. Also they are painfull.
Unfortunately there are new problems in my arms and hands. Probably they were affected too, but I didn't noticed that.

I have no headaches, good appetite, but lost too much kilograms of weight. Stress. Now have problems with my stomach.

But, still able to work and this is of great help. Working is a good way to reset your mind.
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No new info Heimen.
Sounds like your toes/foot are slowly coming alive.
Probably more damage there.
It is slowwww.
Jen
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I don't know, why still up my B6 level, but i can say i used very high dosage ( 500 mg in a day for 25 days and 250 mg in a day for 35 days = 19000 mg total).

but I have a difference from you, this thing cause to be weird my situation,
when i used 500 mg X 25 days B6 vitamine, there is no difference and my metabolism was fast, but after i used anti-thyroid drug for 9 days, my metabolism slowed down and i lost all my senses suddenly. I didn't feel my body. There was no impuls from my body. Today 13 months past, some sense retuned back, but still lots of sense absent.

Now, I don't use any drugs or herbs. I'm only trying to solve my problem, i research everywhere, i'm looking your message, but there is no spark...

Do you think my B6 level 33 ug/L  (normal value 3.6 - 18 ug/L) is so HIGH?
  
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Ah! Definition of numbness. I define numbness to mean "I can't feel anything." When I have the sleeping foot type sensation, which is what I have in my breasts, I call it "pain." Like pins and needles. Or burning. It feels like someone is shooting at me with an automatic nail gun.
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I call numbness: not able to feel anything. That is different from the sleeptype, pins, needles. My numbness, in the big toes, is sometimes total, however deep in the skin is ability to feel. Yesterday the total numbness in one toe changed and I could feel the skin again. Now, after waking up, numbness is back but also pain. That was a new type of experience.
Maybe Tzen is right, the nerves are coming alive.

Anyone else with the same experiece?

gr

Heimen
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Does anyone have the 'sandpaper' feeling in their lower torso?
This really drives me up the wall.  
Especially, when I sit.