Fear of turning gay (HOCD? or didn't know my whole life)
To start off I'm a 19 year old heterosexual male.
Starting a month ago I suddenly had this fear of turning gay or that I am gay and just never did truly know. (nothing against gays I just don't want to be) Ever since I can remember I have always been attracted to women. I always saw myself getting married and having many kids. I've also had a couple girl friends and enjoyed myself. But with all this fear, anxiety, and stress. I start to question myself "Did I really find them sexually attractive or was this all false?" I think the root of the problem was when I saw this post on facebook saying "I smoked weed once now i'm gay". ( I have smoked pot but never really enjoyed it. I HATED IT! It gave me anxiety. When I first saw this it didn't bother me but one night I was watching some youtube videos and I saw this guy who I thought looked good. It crossed my mind what if I could be gay? It didn't bother me at first but the next day it was killing me. I kept thinking about it over and over again. After a little while it some how went away for like a week. (That is why I think it is some kind of OCD) Didn't even bother me. It was still in the back of my mind but didn't bother me. When I went back to college it began to bother me like crazy. I couldn't think straight and it felt like my attraction to women was depleting. I started to check myself to see if I thought girls I passed by were attractive. Same with men to see if I found them attractive.
To add I just don't see myself with another man. I JUST CAN'T!! Nor do i intend to watch gay porn. I've always found it repulsive. (I'm not trying to offend any one who is gay) But for some reason this feeling has made me believe I'm something I know truly I am not.
For one week It bothered me like crazy I couldn't stop looking at other men with out having this gay thoughts "do I see myself with him? Am I gay by thinking all this?" While checking to see if I thought a man was attractive or not I would check to see if I would get groinal responses. I would but it would be like as if I get an erection. From what I have read it's just the fear. But what is also not helping my situation is the fact that I have tried my own semen and I have stuck my finger up my anus for curiosity sake. I haven't found it really enjoyable but THIS SCARES ME THE MOST!! and when I think about it bothers me even more.
I just don't want to be gay because I've always been straight or at least really was convinced I was!!! I just can't believe I was living a lie. That would kill me.
I just want to know if it's HOCD? Denial?
And how to treat it if it's HOCD?
Also I've had other kind of fears (ocd) in the past. When I was a freshman in high school I had a fear that I had HIV for about a week, even though I am still a virgin. And I also kept thinking about my breathing fearing that I would stop breathing in the middle of the night. Am I just prone to ocd??
People with OCD tend to go to the dark side in any number of ways. My belief in whether people are gay or not is steeped in genetics. I think you are born gay or you are not. So the fact that being with another man turns you off means that you are not gay. There really is no question here. All the testing you are doing is just making this thought stick around. What you need to do is say to yourself "I LIKE WOMEN AND ALWAYS HAVE, ENOUGH." Comparing yourself to other men is very common. I notice other women and whether their hair looks nice or their body is better than mine. It is just me comparing myself to them because hell I want to look as good as the next 48 year old woman out there.
Since you have had other OCD irrational thoughts, do you think it is time to get some professional help? The more stress you have the worse OCD gets and it really is a good idea to have some cognitive behavioral therapy tools under your belt so that you can help yourself. So think about talking to your parents about getting some counseling.I have a son your age and I would hate to think he was suffering in silence when all he had to do is talk to me so that I can get him some help.
In the mean time here is a breathing technique you can use to help calm yourself down. YOu take a deep breath in through your nose and hold it for 5 seconds..count this out in your head. Then you let it all out through your mouth. YOu can do this in any situation and nobody will even know you are doing it. Practice it when you can.
Also, try to stop the testing. just say "NO" when you start to even go there. Good luck and let me know how you are doing.
Thanks for replying so soon!! :) I have told my parents about my situation and they thankfully are pretty open minded to the whole thing. I was worried they would have some kind a freak out moment that there son was having these thoughts. They didn't and they said that they would do there best to find some help. Just wondering is it possible that deep anxiety, stress, and mental problems can be heredity? I know my dad suffered with anxiety for a while, and my grandmother also suffered with extreme cases of mental problems like mine (believing things that aren't true)
Also I'm not sure if this could have influenced my HOCD, but I am a music major and very artistic person. I'm around gays a lot and I also I have cousin on my dads side who is also a music major who turned out to be gay.
Anyways the fear of turning gay never crossed my mind until recently. That's why I know it's HOCD or some type of OCD. I never questioned my sexuality before. I was always 100% positive I was straight. But all this fear, anxiety, and stress has made me believe I'm something I'm not. It feels SOOOO real, like as if it is telling me i want to be with a man. But deep down I know I never could or want to be with a man. And with all this anxiety and stress my attraction to women is not as strong as it was at all. Which freaks me out even more!
I just want to live life the way it was before. I was really happy with myself. Thanks I will let you know how things go in the future. Sorry I'm explaining everything in so much detail. And I will use the advice you gave me!
My family participated in an on-going study on OCD at Johns Hopkins University. My mother had anxiety, and two of my three sisters have OCD as well as me. They have found a genetic component to it and that it can be passed down in families but the study is still ongoing so I don't know what percentage is familiar. Take care and I'm so glad that you have wonderful parents that you can talk to!
Okay so I think I'm almost out of HOCD but there are some things that still leave me in question. Since I've been telling myself that I have liked girls all my life and never have wanted to be with a guy it has helped my anxiety go down a bunch. I'm more motivated than I was before. I still have a few problems.
Since I'm pretty much positive I'm not gay it's turned into more of a bi-ocd. The thing is I'm not okay with being bi-sexual but my mind is telling me it's okay and that I like it(kinda as if I'm accepting it) The thing is I still don't want to be with men. When my mind is relaxed sometimes it feels as though i've given into the idea.
Another thing that kinda bothers me still but I try not to let it is whenever I see a guy that looks good or has good hair or something to that extent I get nervous and anxious still. I don't even have to think about being gay it will just kinda happen. Which freaks me out. This also leads to my attraction to women. It is still not there. I can tell when I girl looks really pretty but my want to be with her is not there. Also sometimes when I talk to some of my guy friends it feels as though I'm flirting with them. And then I'm like what the hell am I doing and then I have a bit of a panic attack and try to calm myself down saying it's just the HOCD.
Also before I had all these problems I was really addicted to pornography. Whenever I watch it from time to time it feels like i'm gonna start watching the guy and like it. I never really cared for the guy in the past so why should I now. Should I try not to watch porn for a while?
When I read this I realized noticed that I have had 100% of the same symptoms/experiences. Also i have had the same fear of bi-ocd when it lowered a little bit. I'm starting to shake more and am having a rough time with this because I am a strong believer of christ and just feel terrible for even having that sense of doubt. Have you solved this yet, if so what did you do?
I'm a 18 year old male and I'm suffering with the same thing, my anxiety is up and down, I've learned to accept them and just agree with them and my anxiety goes down, then i worry if I'm really accepting the thoughts cause i enjoy them then can spike again, I'm on some medication and waiting to see a therapist, I just want to know how other people get by, it really depressed me I've even gone on a break with my girlfriend, I've always loved girls, but this crazy though just came up when i was in the hot tub with a friend, i just thought to myself this feels gay, then bam, i was avoiding him the next day, and wanting to cry cause i didn't want to be gay, now its calmed down abit after 2 months which also kind of worries me.
im a 15 year old male and im suffereing from the same stuff as well. I always loved girls, and i was addicted to porn. back in year 7 I had this massive crush on this girl, like i mean obbsessed. i had a crush on her since like year 3. She liked me for a bit until i got too... i dunno, creepy i guess. Anyway she started ignoring me and i kept on trying until i asked her out and she straight out rejected me. When she rejected me i think that just screwed up my self confidence. which i think was the reason i've always been really awkward around girls, i can't keep a conversation going, i would say stupid things and i would pretty much sweat it if i had to keep a conversation going. Also I've always been really obbsessive when i like a girl for some reason. Then suddenly one day i literally woke up and realised i didnt have any attraction for girls anymore. This scared me so much and i had all the common symptoms for HOCD like checking at guys to see if it turned you on and it never did but i always got a sick feeling in my stomach and a tingling in my penis and i felt like i was getting an erection. i never did though.
When that first spike was over I felt okay. I was reading up on HOCD and realised that must be what I have. But now when I think of guys i dont get a tingle it just feels like im about to get a normal erection. I was worried by this and got multiple other spikes. I have also tried anal masturbation (sorry for details) and i hated it with bigger things but with smaller things the orgasm was better than normal. This scared me because i thought that meant i was gay. I get turned on by thing about things up there but dont want to do it with a guy. The sexual attraction towards girls has kind of returned but now when i see and obviously attractive male i kind of second glance as though i was checking them out and then i stop because I dont want to be attracted to males. I dont think i am though i think its the anxiety as I feel sick in my stomach when i think about it.
Like Drum i believe the HOCD changed to bi-OCD. Also, like Drum, I feel as though my mind has just given in to the idea, which i do not want at all.
I think the trigger for all this was probably the anal masturbation, the fact that i could never talk to girls, my family always kinda made jokes that i was gay and that I like looking good and stuff and having nice clothes
There is nothing wrong with being gay but you can't just wake up one day and become gay. You have a lot of things going on in your short life that are stressing you out. I told my sons don't worry about the girls that you like that don't like you because there are going to be girls that like you that you don't like. It works both ways. High school is such a hard time in life. Neither of my boys had or have girlfriends in high school...doesn't make them gay. In fact I know they are not but if they were I wouldn't care because being gay isn't something under someone's control. It is a fact or it is not. What you don't want to do is get into the habit of testing. Every test you do keeps you in the OCD loop. What you really want to do is let these thoughts wash over you and say "whatever." If you continue to ponder them, they will stay like a bad dream.
As far as how you dress....ever heard of the work metrosexual? Here is the definition
a young, urban, heterosexual male with liberal political views, an interest in fashion, and a refined sense of taste.
do you see the word "heterosexual male" in the definition. Yes...non-gay male. Just because you like to look good and have nice clothes that doesn't mean you are gay.
Work on your self-esteem. Remember there is someone for everyone and adopt the "whatever" attitude. AND stop testing. No more porn to see how you feel. Anal masturbation....yes that does make some people have stronger orgasms. All very natural. The fact that you have no desire to be in a relationship with a guy, have sex with a guy, means that you could not possibly be gay.
also i have another question, usually, how long is the attraction to girls gone? From what you have heard from others and so on? Will it only come back when I am over all this? I think i get attraction to them when I am not thinking about the ocd but when i am thinking about ocd and i check out a girl it feels like I am forcing it and i lose attraction to the opposite sex. This is all so confusing, sometimes I'm sure that it's just the HOCD and that I m straight and other times I think that the fact I think i have hocd is because subconsciously I'm in denial. Thanks again for your help :)
No one can say for sure. You need to get past this irrational thought first before you will feel normal again. I know it is hard to hear that you need to stop thinking about it but that is exactly what you need to do. If you do think about it you need to self-coach and say "whatever" and then move on to something that will occupy your mind. Don't let it take off. Stop the thought the second it pops into your head because then it leads to you checking things out which is what you absolutely do not want to do. Did you read my post "The Anatomy of a HOrrific Thought in Pure-O?" If not, I will bump it back to the top of the forum. You will see how your checking and testing is actually keeping you stuck in the OCD loop.
I havent seen your post but ill be sure to check it out. Another thing that worries me (sorry for smothering you with all these questions) is that even when I am not spiking i have a really lowered sexual attraction to women, its a little lowered when I spike, sure but still it worries me. Also, now when I see an obviously attractive guy i usually dont get that anxious feeling anymore. i thought it could be that i just got into a habit of "checking" and i got used to it but now that I'm trying to stop it feels like im naturally trying to check them out... and when a guy like goes past on my news feed I find my eyes kind of linger, without my control. I dont THINK i can see myself with a man in a relationship but i cant be sure as my mind is so muddled up. Please tell me, from what I have posted do you think I am gay, bi or struggling with HOCD. Once again thank you so much for your help. You're honestly the next best thing to a therapist :)
by Gshock, 38 minutes
I have had this stupid hocd thoughts as well. I thought I was going crazy. Definitely a chemical imbalance caused by stress. I obsess about everything and then oneday that popped in my head. It stuck for a longtime. I love women and everything about them. Never did I dream or feel anything about men. The OCD got worse and drove me nuts. I know I'm straight and always was. I guess the mind plays trucks on us when we get so stressed out. My doctor recently put me on lexapro and a anxiety pill. Working great but sometimes I have to reassure myself by reading articles that this is normal and it will pass with time.
I was also wondering if smoking pot could have anything to do with this? i have done it about 10-12 times over the past 6 months. Could it be causing this and should i stop? Also I am usually tired most of the time. I get distracted at night and usually stay up late. Also could you please answer my previous question? Sorry but Im really desperate for answers haha I'm sure everyone on this forum knows what that is like. Thanks!
Hi sorry...I have been unable to sign-on due to some glitch with the website. Anyway, no I don't think you are gay. I know your mind is muddled up right now. It is hard to know up from down.
An OCD mind is never an idle mind...at least mine isn't. There is an ever ongoing dialog in my head...I don't have a quiet mind so anything that is a stimulant is going to make things worse for me. So I gave up caffeine because it is a stimulant. Pot acts as a stimulant and a depressant. You would not be the first person to come on here or the Anxiety Forum and say that after smoking pot they found themselves with anxiety. So my advice is to lay off the pot.
yea i have decided to quit. Also i have noticed that my OCD symptoms change. its quite strange and im not sure if it's normal. Like if i read on a forum that you get a tingling in your groin when you think of a guy or something and i have that symptom it usually never happens again. Or like if i read that the difference between denial anxiety and HOCD anxiety is that if you were gay you wouldn't be scared of losing attraction to girls just about what your family and friend thinks of you and i would think that i was only scared of what they would think? So you are defiantly sure that it is HOCD? i dunno my mind just needs to get all the details. Also, if i read something that makes me sure its HOCD not actually homosexual thoughts it will never sink in. I can never remember the symptoms for HOCD and if i have one "sign" that im gay it will put my brain into overdrive i hate it. Is the "lingering" on guys normal as well? Could it just be that im noticing if a guy has a good body or something and that i should just acknowledge that its not in a homosexual way? It seems like i am "checking out" guys when I'm not even thinking about the ocd. If you think I am gay please answer honestly I just want to know what and who I am
All the things you are doing add up to checking behavior and remember in my post...checking just keeps you in the OCD loop.
You wrote "if you were gay you wouldn't be scared of losing attraction to girls." I say if you were gay you wouldn't be attracted to girls in the first place. I can only go by what you say and so I'm going with HOCD. I don't know you personally. I can't diagnose you but rather just give you my opinion.
I still say that if being in a relationship with a guy turns you off, then how could you possibly be gay? In order to be gay you have to look at the same sex, get sexually excited, and want to pursue that feeling into a sexual relationship. Remember, the way gay people feel about the same sex is the same way heterosexual people feel about the opposite sex.
AND I would never lie to you. I gain nothing from lying and I'm certainly not doing you any good by lying so I look at the facts as they are presented to me and I give an honest opinion.
ok that actually makes me feel alot better :) I didnt know it was possible to worry about something this much. Sorry for asking you to answer honestly and stuff i just get so paranoid that my brain made me think that you were just saying i had HOCD to stop me from getting anxious because you thought i was actually gay.
but is it normal to not have that attraction to girls all the time? because I haven't had proper attraction to girls since this started like two months ago. Should I get professional help and how should i tell my parents? I am in the middle of a spike at the moment, and it has probably been the worst one I have ever had. I guess im handling it better than the initial spike though but barely. But with this spike I actually feel like I am really gay. Like there is almost no attraction to girls at all (unless they were girls I saw as attractive before the HOCD) and i hate myself for experimenting with masturbation because when i think about that it turns me on! but thinking about having sex with either guy or girl doesnt! I know i have to try not to check but its almost impossible. And also you were talking about having anxiety attacks which I dont get. I just get sad and it feels like I am in denial. I am so sorry for asking so many questions but it just doesnt sink in with my brain! Everytime i realise what i have isnt gay denial, my "symptoms" change and I feel different to everyone else with HOCD. Is this normal? I think this spike may be due to the pot i did last week. the day after i did it, this spike began, but that was before i decided to quit.
If you don't feel comfortable tell your parents exactly what is bothering you, then you can tell them that you are having some anxiety and that it won't go away. Tell them that your mind feels like it is in overdrive and you would like to see a doctor to help you.
You know, I have boys...19 and 17 and I would hope that if they were having some sort of problem that they would come to me. You wouldn't believe how understanding parents are. Why don't you tell them the truth. Tell them what has been going on in your mind, that you looked it up online and found HOCD and that is what you think you have, and that you would like to see a psychologist because you are not able to let the thought go. That you are miserable and it is causing you to have anxiety.
Have you looked on this forum? I mean really looked through the posts? The majority of them are HOCD posts. Do you think that all these people are gay? It is a very, very common irrational thought. I had it myself once and I was married at the time. It is a thought that would turn your life upside down if it were true and that is what OCD thoughts do. We pick the scariest thing and we run with it.
I am going to bump something to the top by Sparky43. It really describes OCD in a nutshell so give it a look.
I think I am going to tell my parents but I am going to have to take some time before i do. And yea i have religiously scoured the internet for posts about HOCD but even though I was reassured at the time, I would never be satisfied with it over time. Now, I look at other peoples HOCD posts and think "they are obviously going through HOCD i wish my problems were like theirs rather than how mine are" i just never feel like my symptoms exactly match up... and are you saying that it's possible that I actually am gay but just have ocd about it?
I know you have already said that you don't think I am gay but I just think like this and i HATE it. Every little detail that points towards me being a homosexual amplifies and twists my mind. I can't handle it. And what I meant before was I saw the difference between being in gay denial and ocd is if you were gay you would be anxious about what family think and that with hocd you would be afraid of not being hetrosexual. At the start of my ocd i remember being afraid of what family and friends would think but i can't remember if I was afraid of not being attracted to women any more.
I know you've already explained all this to me but I never feel like it covers everything and the parts of what I'm feeling that arent explained to me are the parts that mean I am actually gay. I don't get sexually aroused thinking about men which is reassuring but i still seem to be checking them out... I can tell you're thinking that you've already explained this already and why don't I get it but as I'm sure you know, this ocd is vicious... thanks again :)
You have very similar symptoms to my own, you really don't need to worry , nobody here would ever dream you were gay or bi because we've all felt the same ad you. To be honest, I don't think you truly believe you are either, it's an irrational fear buddy. Try to find a medical professional who specializes or is knowledgable in OCD, nobody wants to see anyone else suffer from this . Best of luck to you my friend!!
Hey everyone I'm going through this pain in the arse **** as well, when I was younger I had to blink at people once or three times but never two times because I believed that they would die ( that was when I was 13 and picked up that stupid superstition after watching a movie where the main character blinked twice at another person who died in that movie, that' sorta of went away after a while then realise how stupid it was ) . I remember being depressed , the girl I was seeing interest in me at the same time my dad was in hospital for cancer ( still is and dying from it ) the person who was next to him was a man who was married with 4 kids but realised he was gay, when I first met him I thought he was ******* weird . Anyway here's why triggerd me,, i was watching the rugby and mum had said the person next to my dad in the hospital room was married but realised he was gay , it didnt bother me , went to bed with too much energy ( I need to exercise or I can't sleep) that night watching predator and excited about waking up at 5 am to workout but then that thought entered my head out of nowhere the. I had a massive adrenaline rush through my body from bottom to top followed by a two hour pannic attack , it's been 6 weeks since then and it feels like my mind keeps playing tricks on me , I've always liked women and sports and never ever thought about men in that way and it still scares me, about 4 weeks after the pannic attack something nice happen I worked my self up with another pannic attack than I fell into a deep sleep and woke up the next day feeling like my old self but than a girl I was seeing ( met 2 days after the pannic attack) said she didn't want to see me anymore which made me pissed off/ upset and seemed to set me back into the old thinking cycle , felt like a kick in the guts when I was getting back on one foot and the other one was about to follow ,after watching a horror movie during this time I felt like I was gonna be possed and I woke up in the middle of the night punching in the air cause I thought someone was sitting on top of me and screamed get of me ( never done that before ), I'm too scared to hang out with my mates cause i feel like I might do something silly , I had a mate who has always been a bit fruity and sent strange sexual texts not only to me but everyone anyway i think he might be gay or bi ( which i sorta knew before but didnt bother me anyway me and ny mates went out one night i hadnt start drinking yet and that bloke smacked me on the arse i turned around and king hit him in the face ) i got drunk and the intrusive thoughts were gone or atleast at minmal which didnt bother me i chased girls that night ( drunken words bring out sober thought) also I did natural bodybuilding but have lost 10kgs because I've felt do mentally fatigued and too tired to eat or train which pisses me off when u spend so long building up your body . Anyway can anyone please help I feel like a prisoner in my own mind which I know will go away but it feels like hell atm
you aren't gay dude trust me. I know that no matter what anyone tells you, the anxiety will only temporarily fade away, that is why you MUST see a psychiatrist that specialises in OCD and behavioural therapy. make sure they specialise in ocd otherwise they may just think you are in denial even though you are definitely not gay. If you were gay, why would you even care that the girl you were seeing ended things with you? Depression and stress can cause this type of thing as well, I was depressed a few years ago due to a failed romance. I believe this is what triggered it. It also seems that you have ocd since you were young. Did you have other compulsions, such as lining things up with with your eyes, not stepping on cracks or touching something a certain number of times? There are multiple other compulsions but those are the most prominent.
I used to feel the same way and always thought that to be gay would mean being out there looking for men to pick up 24/7. I would prohibit myself from any triggers that may stimulate the thoughts. I found myself being in a very lonely predicament. I had girlfriends but there was always that skepticism in my head, due to the fact that I found most girls to have bisexual tendencies and found that it was not proper for a man to play with another man. So even with girls, I found myself thinking about what it would be like to have a boy friend. It's crazy but it takes discipline in this world we are living in. The triggers are out there, we men just have to be strong and learn to turn the other cheek. Keep fighting it. You will win dude.
Hi I am 18 years old and a senior in high school. Over the last two years, I have been experiencing intrusive gay thoughts. This is driving me crazy because I have liked girls my whole life. The more I think these thoughts, the more real they feel. I have tried to tell myself this is just HOCD, but that is not working. What makes it worse is that over the last month, I have started to feel arousal from these thoughts. It has gotton so bad, that I feel like I cant turn on the tv or watch some of my favorite movies because I am afraid I will find a guy attractive or get aroused. This is just really hard because I know I like girls and have never been attracted to guys. Bottom line is do you guys think this is HOCD OR DENIAL. If anyone responds it will be appreciated because I am starting to lose my mind.
I've had the same thoughts for about 3 months after my fiance had left for Europe for a missions trip I am a religious man I am 19 years old and I'm scared I'm loosing my fiance over this because I feel like I'm gay I have thoughts I wish would go away I went to an therapist 2 weeks ago and up until this last Monday so about a week in felt great but my mind all of a sudden went downhill and this time tumbling fast I get sick to my stomach about thus and I go back in this Tuesday he said it was ocd and I believe him just feeling like its to much to bear right now what do I do I don't wanna feel this way
Holy hell man, I'm a 21 year old male and these were my exact thoughts for the longest time! It ***** so bad. One day while high as hell I questioned my sexuality and ever since I have had the worst anxiety. The ups and downs of am I gay? Could I be gay? Nah I've never even considered it until now. Can't be true. But could it be? Over and over these thoughts would constantly run through my head. I'm now at a point where the anxiety and ocd has fully subsided in regards to this question. I am not clouded in my love for women anymore. I found that meditation and consistently reminding yourself that you've never been attracted to men helps a ton. I am finally myself again and am happier than I've ever been. It'll all pass!
I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm a woman though but having the same type of thoughts about other women. I have always dated men always been with men never been attracted to women. I started getting ROCD about a year and a half ago. That's hhow my OCD first started, now It has turned itself into H OCD. I have a boyfriend so this makes it even harder. I act for a living and work for the TV show empire, which if you have ever seen it there is a lot of homosexuality in it. I never used to have these thoughts or anything and now all of a sudden I do. After everything that I read it that has to do with OCD in HOC DI follow everything to a T. I see a psychologist and he's been my psychologist since I was a kid. I finally brought up to him all these thoughts and he said that it was OCD. He told me that my mind is trying to get me to think things that aren't true. He told me that there's never been a case in OCD when someone's been so distraught and worried about something but the thought was actually real. Now I wonder too because they say you just be worried or your family and friends would think if you were gay and that's it but if you're not you're just worried about actually being gay. I get both so I get a double whammy I'm worried about what my parents think and everybody else but I'm also terrified of actually just being it because I don't want to be it. I think we all know we are not gay, but the thoughts are so damn real it's hard to tell. It's left me hopeless, depressed, angry, sad and at times emotionless which is so not me. I just want to be married to my bf and have babies and love the life I always wanted before this disease!!
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