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Avatar universal

HOCD Help...Cant take much more.

Ive had HOCD for about a year now. Its had its ups and downs. Im in therapy right now but im also in college and it dosent leave much time to get my therapy hw done. My question is about ruminating over past events. I have had a girlfriend for 5 years. I have had gay dreams. And i remember going to the doctor and having a gay thought and i think i became aroused when he was touching me. However this freaks me out so badly to where i feel like dieing. My girlfriend has been very supportive but she cant take much more i know she cant. The rumination makes me think back to those events or dreams and try to figure out and remember what happened however as soon as i think i may feel like thats what happened i have a panic attack i cant breathe eat drink or sleep im just stunned. The ocd tells me i liked it and im just in denial... I worried about my girlfriend becoming pregnant for 2 years before the gay ocd came shes gone through three years of hell with me. I just want to be myself again and be able to feel the love for her i use to instead of anxiety all the time. All my future dreams feel as though they are being erased. Please i need some help. ( i get aroused by awkward situations) i dont know if thats what happen in dr. Office or what. I just want to be straight. and my ocd tells me i will be happy and im just in denial. Im terrified of going to the dr and finding out i do liked being touched by him and realizing that i am. Im actually having panic attack right now.
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Avatar universal
The trick was getting him to sleep through the night without knowing the door is locked or not. Once the fear of what happens if the door is unlocked is gone the OCD didn't trigger anymore. Same thing with my best friend. As soon as he wasn't afraid of what it would be like to be gay, the thought didn't attack him anymore. He is still completely straight.
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1699033 tn?1514113133
I'm very sorry to hear that your brother passed away.  You make some valid points and I have often thought of the placebo effect as well.  What if they gave me a sugar pill, would I feel as good as I do now?  The bottom line is we will never know unless we participate in a controlled trial.  I think though, just from my own experience and just so you know I started out as a checker as well, that even when I self-coached by saying "the door is locked" out loud, I would still panic and I would have to fall back on CBT.  Yes it worked but eventually some other stupid thought would take its place.  So it was a never ending roller coaster of thoughts.  My sister has OCD worse than I do and I did use her as a sounding board as well but after a while it becomes exhausting living like that.  After a while I didn't want to call her because I felt like I was bugging her and of course she had her own problems.  That is the only time I would say that medication is warranted  because I think it works more times than it does not.  That  exhaustion, the constant battle, wears you down, makes you depressed and unable to function in your daily life so I don't think meds should be discounted.     Your brother was very lucky to have you.

Jake...sorry I hijacked your post and of course if there is anything else you need, please post again.  
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Avatar universal
Thank you very much for your post im sorry to hear about your brother. This disorder is very tricky and extremely depressing thank you for helping me out. Its good to know theres other people that gets these weird feelings from time to time.
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Avatar universal
My brother passed on a few years ago. I wasn't living with him at the end, but he had finally gotten well enough to be able to work again and go to college. Funny you used the term "sounding board" my Mom called it that.... OCD for him started really bad in kindergarten and only worsened until about 18 or so. I was helping him just being a brother basically trying all kinds of random methods of my own. CBT in clinics did nothing for him. I was able to to get rid of a few of his compulsions by basically forcing him to figure out what it is hes actually afraid of. Then helping him confront it. Like the door locking for example.... a few nights I stopped him from checking the lock over and over. I remember joking with him and acting like I didn't even know if I locked it or not and told him who cares. I made sure he didn't go check the door until he went to sleep. I did this a few nights and we made jokes about how screwed someone would be even tried to break in the first place. Once he had the experience of living through the night without knowing if the door is locked he no longer had that fear to attach to the compulsion. Same trick worked for hand washing. My best friend I mentioned in the other post was cured in CBT through a facility. What he described what they did was almost the same thing I did with my brother. For him it was a fear of what would happen to him if he were gay. He said they had to pretty much had to bully him into hanging out and talking with gay guys at starbucks and it was torture in a way to go through, but he no longer remotely has that fear anymore.

What you said about the SSRIs is very wise and I completely agree. My brother had so many tests done I can't even remember them all, but I do remember his serotonin level was so low the doctor would joke about it. Probably why the meds didn't work.

"Natural forces within us are the true healers of disease"
- Hippocrates, The father of medicine.

Go with the treatment and people that you yourself have the most faith in. The few people I've seen cured were all healed in different ways, some of them seemingly ridiculous cures. The placebo effect is perfect evidence of this. What we believe will heal us will heal us. I'm a wierdo, I talk to everyone I meet about their OCD if I can tell they have it. I've found that nearly all of them had immunization shots or were exposed to harmful chemicals that damage the pineal gland around the same time they developed OCD. For my brother it was immunization shots before kindergarten. For my best friend, it was the same thing. The most simple things that I've seen work the most for anxiety in general is getting more sun and sleeping on a regular pattern. I've also seen heavy metal detoxification help. Talk to a professional before you take anything. I find naturopaths know the most. I saw a doctor (works at MD anderson cancer center) bring his wife (who has cancer) to the naturopath that I met through my brother. Made me realize if they are looking somewhere else, so should we....




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1699033 tn?1514113133
So let me understand this.  Your brother isn't really cured of OCD he just has you as his sounding board and you act as his reassurance basically.  What if you are not around to check that the door is locked?  What happens then?  Is he able to use CBT and get himself under control?  

And I do agree that serotonin is the problem which is why medication can help.  I also agree that it doesn't work for everybody.  Your brother is not the first to say that it didn't help them however I think that is in the minority actually.  The SSRIs presumably allow more serotonin to be available for your brain cells to use.  But what if you don't make much to begin with?  These are probably the people that SSRIs don't work well for.  Just my opinion  
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Avatar universal
My best friend has SEVERE OCD/HOCD and had literally the exact same type of awkward doctor visit you describe here. His HOCD vanished after a successful cognitive behavior therapy session. His HOCD was as bad or worse than what you describe.

Feel like I need to say a little bit about my own experience first..
I grew up with up a younger brother who had extreme OCD his entire life and spent 15+ years watching him visit countless doctors and therapists(parents had very good insurance) and go through just about every treatment, conventional or not. Visiting so many doctors (one world renowned for his OCD treatment methods), I realized that it is very rare to find one that really understands OCD, much less how to treat it. Like that doctor you mentioned, it seems like most of them are just trying to sell you pills, etc. and making it seem like its impossible to cure. I realized that most of the doctors were asking questions and learning from him more than they were helping him. My brother even ended up working at the facility I mentioned.

Back to the cure....

People who experience OCD have low serotonin or other serotonin-related problems. That is why you see SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor)s prescribed for OCD. Serotonin is what our mind uses to control the intensity of impulses in our brain. A serotonin malfunction means your brain cannot properly block or at least quiet impulses. In our mind everything feeling is possible. In the subject of sexuality we can have straight, homosexual, bi-sexual etc. feelings. Naturally, attractive impulses can come from anyone and they can be interpreted as sexual or not. It is serotonin that decides to block one of the impulses and make us "straight". We choose what we wan't to feel. However, with OCD it can be hard to block these impulses when you have serotonin issues. Because you feel sexual impulses from both sexs does not at all mean you are gay. Your serotonin just isn't doing its job. Like I said, in reality, both are possibilities in your mind. Serotonin decides which impulses to reject. This is the same reason your mind struggles to accept the fact your hands are clean enough. On the chemical level your brain cannot block the impulse. However, this does not mean it cannot be cured. Whenever I notice someone has OCD I usually try to befriend them and I've met plenty of people who cured or at least partially cured their OCD through various methods.

One thing I heard the owner of the facility say was that almost all of his patients with HOCD and OCD in general are strict Christians (he himself is Christian). The point he was making is that Christians generally fear or condemn homosexuality. My friend that overcame his HOCD was one of these people. He was deathly afraid, frozen, at the thought of being homosexual because he thought he would go to hell for it. He had all kinds of intense homosexual feelings, but knew it wasn't what he wanted to be feeling. As part of a cognitive therapy session he was taken to a Starbucks near the facility (that part of the city is notoriously homosexual) and as part of the therapy spent the afternoon there conversing with guys that were homosexual. He overcame his fear of homosexuals, basically learned to understand and accept them as they are as well as see how different he is than someone who is homosexual. I feel like the key was him realizing there is nothing wrong with being gay. With OCD it is negative thoughts that attack you, so if the thought of being gay isn't negative anymore, its probably not gonna be one of your compulsions anymore.

My friend does not suffer from HOCD or OCD anymore. Only a fellow OCD-sufferer could recognize it in his personality anymore, but he does not suffer or have compulsions. He is your age and is back in his normal life about to graduate college with honors. This was just one step in the key to his recovery, but I think the key for him was understanding that OCD is a chemical problem not a mental or moral issue. Hopefully you can do a little more research on serotonin and fully understand how it works and relates to OCD so hopefully it can help you realize why you have all these unwanted thoughts and not feel guilty about them. You aren't bad or evil for having wrong thoughts, everyone does. Its just that serotonin usually silences those impulses a lot faster for people without OCD.

My brother had the most extreme OCD I've seen of anyone, none of the doctors could really help him. All the prescriptions, therapy, altnernative medicine etc were ineffective. I don't think he really believed in them.However, around me he was perfectly fine. I didn't know half as much about brain chemistry, OCD, etc. as I do now. But, I was always able to easily calm him. Even though I'd have thought he trusted my parents more for help. I had to regularly calm him down from punching holes in the wall and even more extreme behavior caused by his OCD anxieties. Looking back on it, the reason I was able to help him was because he trusted me. If he was checking the lock on the door all night I'd go up to the door and lock it myself. Anxiety solved. Or if he had the absolutely most ridiculous worries and questions for me about himself... he trusted my answer. After a while if he just knew I was around to help him out, it was like he didn't have OCD at all. I think finding the person in your family, friends, gf etc. that you trust entirely is a great way to have the cognitive therapy work over doing homework-like lessons all on your own. Do what you can.

Something else that might help you... serotonin is manufactured in the pineal gland in the center of our brain. I find it kind of crazy doctors don't talk more about it and ways to heal/nourish/cleanse the pineal gland with patients who have issues with their serotonin... The pineal gland sets your circadian rhythm which controls your sleep cycle. It always helps to get enough sleep and sleep on a regular cycle. The pineal gland is sensitive to the sun... I even get a feeling in mine when i look at the sun. I've seen sungazing and just getting some sun especially the sunrise/sunset help with anxiety, too. It helps keep our pineal gland on track.

Sorry if this post is so long... I have OCD without the anxiety constantly thinking I left something important out lol. Hope this helps and know that there are always people there for you.

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1699033 tn?1514113133
Oops...sorry.....do the breathing technique I told you about :)  Take care.  
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Avatar universal
Ok thank you very much for all the help and information. Of course as soon as you asked if i said i was gay would i go have sex with a man right away? The hocd just started going crazy. Would I? Would i like that? then panic hit lol thank you for everything and i hope things stay going good for you i hope to be like you are some day soon.
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1699033 tn?1514113133
I will tell you that I have had HOCD but it was pretty fleeting because at the time I was like a spinning top going from one thought to the next.  I had POCD as well.  I thought I would murder my husband.  I thought I would go blind while I was driving.  OMG...I could go on and on.  Our minds make this stuff up.  The more we go back and analyze it, the worse the OCD gets.  If I say black my mind sure as hell is going to say white.  That is just how it goes.  It is like me saying don't think about a purple elephant and the first thing you do is think of the purple elephant.  

My take on being gay is we either are or we are not.  I think it is genetic.  I know gay people and they knew they were gay.  Sure some gay people may date the opposite sex because they are afraid to come out but THEY KNOW they are gay and are just faking it.  The bottom line is if you say out loud "I'm gay" would you want to run out and be in a relationship with a man, have sex with a man?  If the answer is no, then you cannot possibly be gay.  

As far as meds go it is trial and error.  I will tell you that a lot of the SSRIs can mess with your sex life and that was not something I was willing to give up this go around so I am on a SNRI called Wellbutrin.  I was surprised that it worked, but it does for me anyway.  So something to research.  I don't know about higher doses.  I was on a lower dose of wellbutrin for a year or so and it was working until I got a pretty be stressor in my life and I had to up the dose.  It is person dependent.  

The following is a very long thread but it chronicles CanuckGuys run with medication and how he felt and how in the end he was glad he didn't stop.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Back-on-Cipralex-Lexapro/show/1557045
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Avatar universal
Wow thank you it dose sound like you have been thorugh alot and i will definantly give medicine another shot. I know you know all about reasurance and i dont want that so i just want to ask you something general. With your ocd did you ever experience or think your experineced feelings or sensations that proved your fears to be true or so you think they did atleast after you had the the feeling or sensation. As in for me it would be i picture a homosexual sex situation and if i will be looking for arousal and if i think i get it i freak out and say yep im gay and panic attack instantly. Also will ruminating about past expeirences draw you further away from what really happen. Like for me after thinking about it so much I honestly believe i liked the male dr touching me. Also i know other things can contribute to sexual arousal from another man but my ocd likes to think it only means im gay. Once again thank you for your time. What is the best medicine you have tried so far? Dose high mg mean better results?
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1699033 tn?1514113133
First let me say that you are talking to the rumination queen here.  You name it, I have obsessed over it, forward thought it, catastrophized it, etc.  My OCD started when I was a teenager.  

I am going to give you my own experience and maybe you can gain something from it.  First of all as you know OCD can really ruin your life.  Instead of enjoying it, we find things to worry about and when we finally get closure on something, another thought takes it place.  That is how OCD works.  I had a lot of problems in college as well.  Seeing a specialist is great because cognitive behavioral therapy is great BUT sometimes it isn't enough.  It got me through a number of years med free but I was never OCD free.  So struggling but nothing I felt like I couldn't handle.  For me OCD is stress related.  The higher my stress level, the worse my OCD and on two occasions my stress level outmatched my CBT abilities.  And I had to go on medication.  For me, off the hook OCD leads to high anxiety levels and then to depression.  After a while I just couldn't fight any longer.  

As far as meds go, as I said I have been off them and on them and I find that my life is much more normal on them.  I know you said you tried them and they made your anxiety worse.  Yes...that is what happens at first but if you persevere through it for 4 to 6 weeks, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  Oh sure, you are going to want to throw in the towel again like you did before but you have to get past that.  It *****.  I wanted to throw in the towel this last time but the people on the anxiety forum (there was no OCD forum at the time) convinced me about the light at the end, assured me I would feel better when the meds built up a steady state, and damn if they were not right.  

I am not somebody who is pro med per se.  I think that if you can get by with CBT then great.  But if you can't, then why not take meds.  They correct the neurotransmitter deficit we have in our brains so that our brain cells can function properly.  It is up to you to decide when enough is enough.  When you get tired of fighting, when you feel like you have the 4 to 6 weeks to get through the increased anxiety on meds, then maybe you should try again.  I just think that you have suffered long enough.  I am not a therapist but just somebody who has walked in your shoes.  I get what your therapist is doing but if you are not going to do the hw and practice the skills, then where does that leave you?  It leaves you going to therapy and not getting better that's what.  Also medication does not "fix" us.  It makes it easier to let things go....to think the thought and be able to say "whatever" and move on.  Driving causes me panic sometimes and so I do fall back on my CBT for that.  I use self-coaching and basically say "bring it on" because I am no longer afraid of panic.  Panic doesn't kill me.  Sure it makes me uncomfortable for a little while but I come out the other side fine.    When I take the fear away, the panic attack doesn't come.  

Anyway...now I have rambled on.  I just hate to see you go through the same stuff I went through.  
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Avatar universal
Hi thank you for responding. Yes I had no idea i had ocd during the first two years i just thought i was very scared of my girlfriend becoming pregnant and it ruined my first year of college. We moved in together the next year and it got even worst, but after two years i learned to just live with it. As soon as i got reasurance and a talk from her mom(extremely awkward conversation) it was gone. The next day the HOCD hit. In highschool a rumor was started by some girls that i was gay becuase i wouldnt date any of them. So they figuered i must be gay if i wouldnt date them. But i let it get to me for a while. The excitement of getting the girl i wanted to date supressed the fear that the rumor was true and it disapeared. So it was an easy fear to resort back to after the pregnancy fear ended. I ended up seeing a therapist in town but all he did was reasure me and told me i would be miserable forever pretty much and tried loading me up on meds. I quit seeing him and now am going to an OCD specialist in louisville KY. She dose not want to give many any meds unless i really need them. Ive gone to her for almost half a year now and havent done very much of my hw due to me wanting just to live a normal life without dueing the stessful hw. I know it dosent work that way though. I tried going back on meds this past week after quiting them 6 months ago. It was horrible it was prozac and it seemed to worsten the anxiety. I dont want reasurance from you. I just am so scared this past week i have so much school hw. I forgot to tell you i even had to stay home and go to community college this year so im away from my girlfriend now. OCD has really affected my life. HOCD especially. I guess why im so scared this time is because i can remember going to the dr for testicular pain and him having to touch me down there and all i know for sure is that i had a movement down there. My ocd tells me i liked the awkward and forbiden feeling it gave me and i wanted more. When i tell myslf this its instant panic attack. I know i should tell myself yep i did like it and say o well and move on but its hard this time becuase i dont think i was obsessing over being gay or bi at the time i had the experience. I just would love to be myself again. sorry this was so long just wanted you to get to know me a little better and the full situation. Ive had alot of weird thoughts and feelings since this theme started and i feel as though i cant stop ruminating over them this past week. Thank you for taking your time to help me out and giving me some advice.
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1699033 tn?1514113133
Hi Jake...I'm glad to hear you are in therapy and I know that it is a crazy life with college but you do need to try to work on the therapy homework.  This is the only way you will learn to control your mind instead of the other way around.  College is stressful and stress makes OCD worse so that is probably why you are having such a hard time.  Three years is a long time to be suffering.  Has your therapist ever discussed medication with you in addition to learning CBT?  

Have you learned the controlled breathing technique for a panic attack?  Take a deep breath in through your nose, hold it for five seconds and count this out in your head, then let it all out through your mouth.  Continue doing this until you are calm and your heart rate is back down.  Practice it in a lying down position with your hands on your stomach.  This technique can be done anywhere at any time and nobody will even know you are doing it.  

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