Hormone Replacement

I had both ovaries removed due to complex cysts two weeks ago and was put on hormone replacement.  I am concerned when I read the brochure.  Is everyone on replacement?  I am going to talk to my doctor at my follow up, but I did not like the side effects in the brochure.

Thanks,

[Gatsby]

I am not on hrt because I cannot take it due to the clot factor.  Some women are and don't have any problems.
~Tascha

[DebiR]

I agree with Pam that it is a very personal choice.  The other thing that influences the decision is how old you are any how symptomatic you are.  I am 47 and also had both ovaries removed two weeks ago.  I am on natural hormone replacement (look at threads from March 16 or around there) and still having symptoms.  Some women have no symptoms at all or very mild symptoms and therefore opt to not take the hormones.  I think the key is to do your research and know what your options are.  By the way - my doctor also said the the risks were so minimial that they barely warranted discussion and that my osteo risk was worse.

[AnotherKatie]

Hi Debi, Are you feeling better today? :) What are you doing to do with your prog cream, etc?  I agree on the osteo, I have read that the risk from say, a broken hip, is much worse.

lacjmc, have a peek at post called Hormone Questions on the 3rd...lots of information from the very kind Mary53 (typing away to help us even though her fingers are sore). It sure is a complicated issue. Pam is correct, you need to work with your doctor. Mary53 has a great compounding pharacist who sounds wonderful too!
There is also information under a post called Hot Flashes, I think it is around March 17 but gosh with this fog brain, I can't be sure!

Hoping you had a good day ladies
Love, Katie

[DebiR]

Thanks for asking but unfortunately not really.  last night I took an Ambien at 2 am just to get some sleep.  I called the doc today and she said I could double the amount of cream I am using but if that doesn't work we will have to go to something else.  I wish the com pharm was better at working with me but he just says you have to go through the doctor.  But I think the comp pharm would be a better one to know if you could juggle the various elements of the cream.  Oh well - tonight I will try the double amount and see if that is better.  I have no other symptoms but the night sweats and insommnia - which is bad enough!  How about you???

[DebiR]

Ok I am an idiot.  I just went back and re read the april 3 thread and didn't even realize you two had added a ton of info.  I hate how far down some of those threads get and how hard it is to follow them.  I am going to check the website out.  I am also going to go in and try to talk to the pharm and see what he says.  If he isn't more willing to work with me then I think I will find someone who will and do the mail route.  The doc told me today to just double what I am taking but that is doubling the progesterone and everything - maybe I just need more estradiol in the mix.  Thats what I want to find out.  I desperately need some sleep.  I have used temazepam in the past but nothing really knocks me out unfortunately.  It takes abou 30mg to give me six hours of sleep.  The lunesta helps some.  Thanks for all the good info.  

Katie I laughed my a-- off reading your breathe joke.  Sorry I missed it but then I need a good laugh now!!!

[Mary 53]

Hey, my fingers are almost healed, except for my thumb tip...what a pain! Thanks for thinking of me.

I have a thought/suggestion. And, I have to be honest, I don't know about the whole cost of doing this, but, I have heard that many women have a lot of luck with Dr. Erika (I have her book upstairs and you'd think I could go and get it) but, her last name escapes me. Her website is DrErika.com   and for a fee ( I THINK it is about $250.00 an hour, or a consult) you can talk with the doctor, her actually, if I am not mistaken) and she will help you figure out what bioidentical hormones or adjustments you need. She has been working with these products for many years.

Then,I think what they do is have their pharmacy send the prescription to you. Sorry to be vague, but this is basically what happens. Her website is awesome whether or not you work with her.

I posted another website for basic information and discussions of HRT vs. BHRT on the April 3 post under "The Hormone Question." I Will double check on that and I will post again to correct it if I am mistaken.

I do want to make it clear that this is for BHRT, not HRT with the B standing for bioidentical. There is a very huge difference and, yes, the language of this is important. There is so much confusion out there as it is, as so many of you know. These hormones replenish your system, not just take care of the symptoms of menopause as HRT does.

As far as the cost, well, it does sound staggering, but I will tell you, I spent soooo much this past fall seeing a specialist thinking that was the route I needed to take as I was feeling out of balance hormonally, when the whole time, all I needed to do was reconnect with my wonderful compounder who contacted my doctor and got me up and running again with my complement of hormones. Several perscription changes and two months later, I am feeling so well for the first time in awhile. So, even seeing the specialist did not really help. I actually wish I had tried Dr. Erika, although, again, everything worked out for me. But, I got pretty desperate first. I had not stayed on top of keeping things balanced, and that is what got me into trouble.

Those of you who know my story, know that I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer 6 years ago (at age 47), and had a total hyterectomy that ultimately healed me, but I was left with devastating symptoms of sudden menopause. I cannot funtion without my bio's. My suggestion is to keep researching information even if you are not feeling a need to get help at this time. Knowlege is power, and at least if you ever need hormonal help, you will be prepared. Best wishes to my cysters!Mary

[Mary 53]

I got this information from the website for Suzanne Somers on the discussion boards under "The Sexy Years, the horomone connection."

I have not read this particular book, although I love her others...but, check out pgs 22-23 in "Slim & Sexy Forever". Apparently this is a one way to find a doctor to work with you. I have not done this, but I trust the inormation. Suzanne Somers gives the info on how to obtain bio's even from your personal dr. who may know nothing about them. The info is great and shows you after testing just how to obtain Estrace, Gynodiol or Prometrium -- all natural non-compounded bio's that can be prescribed or obtained over the counter at any pharmacy. You can order saliva tests from the pharmacies or on line. You don't need a script for that. I would ask if you need to wait a while to be tested since you are still not too far out from you surgery date.

To find a compounder who can maybe then recommend a doctor if you need one, try www.iacprx.org. This site is wonderful! On the home page click on referral. Enter in your zip code. It will list compounding
Look for other sites in the back of both Sexy Years, and Slim & Sexy Forever by somers.


Oh, and one more thing. I see that you just need to switch the "c" to a "k" and the Drerika.com site should come up. Good luck. Later...Mary

And, sorry for the double post earlier!

[DebiR]

I went to drerica.com but got a chiropracter.  Is there another way it is listed?  I am marching into the pharm today with my little syringe and if he doesnt talk to me I swear I may shoot it all over him and see if he feels better!  Thanks for all the info - you guys are the best and my hope for getting through this.

[AnotherKatie]

The visual I got from that!  ah ahahhah.  

I went to google.ca  and just typed in Dr Erika, she seems wonderful! (and she looks so nice in that pink sweater, wonder where she got that)

http://drerikav2.metacanvas.com/EN/about/about_me.html

Let me know how you did today, and if you left anyone standing..
I still love ya! Katie

[DebiR]

So off I went - to the pharmacy, syrnge in hand.  This guy does tons of advertising about his compounding and bios etc.  So when I got there he said "well have we ever done a consult?"  No of course not.  So he gives me a whole packet of papers to fill out and tells me he will call me with his first available opening for a consult ($200 btw).  I said Ok that is fine but WHAT DO I DO NOW?????? (Picture him against the wall with me holding syrnge to his temple~  ok I didn't really but its a nice thought isn't it??)   So get this.  He says..."don't take anything for two days....I think this is too much estrogen for you".  Too much estrogen???  Do I appear to be someone with TOO F---ING MUCH ESTROGEN?????  So he said - well at least don't take it at night and lets see if you sleep.  Ok I am not sure how not taking estrogen is going to help night sweats and insomnia but I am willing to try it I guess. So I filled out the packet and now I wait for him to call me with an appointment.  I must have really appeared menacing because he swore it would be no longer than a week and I have since heard that most people wait many weeks for an opening.  I might just like menopause after all.

Anything new on your end???

[AnotherKatie]

We don't like this pharmacist. No, no we don't.  I think we like Erika better. (cuter clothes)

Glad Pharmey Boy lived, BUT what did say about doubling the progesterone and everything? What about the estradiol?  
I am not getting much sleep either, if it makes you feel any better. I only sleep well when I have had a good workout, and, as I am still sore, I can't work out (just walk).
You are still so early post-procedure though remember, anesthetic can disrupt your sleep for a few weeks.
Have you thought about trying an estro patch (precription from your GP) instead? Maybe try cutting out caffeine too, if you haven't already. Honestly, I think what they charge is a TOTAL crock, like you said before, and I don't want to do that naturopath testing route IF I can avoid it. It totals $600 here in Canada.  Can your GP do some hormone testing? I'd try him first...no? Also, I have heard some of the compounding pharmacists are nicer than others...hmmm...
Did he say what ARE symptoms of too much estrogen?  You know maybe he's got a point because I stopped the estro patch for a few days because of my headache and I think I slept more.
Oh man I just can't remember for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok maybe we just need a week at a spa retreat.
Not sure why, but I am eating edamame beans, tofu and soy milk.
Yummers.
Keep in touch
Katie

[Mary 53]

Oh dear. I agree with Katie. I am not liking this guy. Do you mind if I ask where you live? Not that I can help you with finding a wonderful pharmacist, but I am thinking that you could go to the website for the international compounding pharmacists...I will get it for you in a sec, and ask for a referal. They will pull up names near you, or not near you, but within a reasonable distance. My guy is 60 miles away, and I live in a big metropolotin area. But, this guy is so good. I would just start calling and telling them of your plight and see who sounds the most understanding and compassionate and knows the most about the bio's. Sounds like this guy is really guessing and I know there is trial and error, but you want answers that make more sense to you. I will say that you do have to trust the person helping you. I trust my pharmacist. If I didn't I would have freaked out even more when he told me he was going to lower the doses on my estrogen and progesterone when I cried out for help three months ago. I was like..."No...no." But, as you all know, I am doing very well. The weight that has been stuck to me for the past nine months is finally starting to come off (I eat very healthfully and work out religiously and have for years). I am doing Armour thyroid, too, and I have stepped up my work outs, but there is a big difference in my body shape and it has been noticably better since starting the new script. This is a very happy by-product for me, but, the real reason I had to do in-depth readjustment was because of the other menopausal symptoms that were creeping back up on me, like urinary incontinence, restless leg syndrome, forgetfulness,etc. I'd had help for years cuz of the bio's, but, I have been much more proactive recently and it has paid off.

I want you to ask the (hopefully nice new guy/woman at the pharmacy) about oral progesterone. Progesterone on it's own does not make you sleepy. However, when it is taken in capsule form, there is a residue of sorts after it goes through the body (liver, probably) and it is that residue that makes you sleepy. That is why you take the oral form at night, or at least take the higher dose of progesterone at night if it is the oral kind.

Otherwise, progesterone cream, even though it helps make you calm, can have a somewhat more immediate effect of kind of perking you up. I don't want to say it stimulates you, but, it does not make you sleepy....let's say that. I learned about these things in Dr. Uzzi Reiss's book and also Northrup's book (The Wisdom of Menopause).

NOW, having said that, there is a rare side effect that is what they call a "paradoxical response" to oral progesterone. I had that...it caused big time bloating and horrible leg cramps at night. Woke me up in the night and had them in the day time several times, too. Horrible. Once I went back to the cream, I was better. But, I also was not on the right dose... I was on a tablet put under my tongue, and it was just weird. I was only on it for a few months. This was before I got smart and went back to my old pharmacist.

I will get the name of the website for you in a second. Take care...this will get better, or I swear, Katie and I see to it that a wonderful pharmacist will arrive on a white horse to take all your hormonal problems away :)

Mary

[Mary 53]

Oh dear. I agree with Katie. I am not liking this guy. Do you mind if I ask where you live? Not that I can help you with finding a wonderful pharmacist, but I am thinking that you could go to the website for the international compounding pharmacists...I will get it for you in a sec, and ask for a referal. They will pull up names near you, or not near you, but within a reasonable distance. My guy is 60 miles away, and I live in a big metropolotin area. But, this guy is so good. I would just start calling and telling them of your plight and see who sounds the most understanding and compassionate and knows the most about the bio's. Sounds like this guy is really guessing and I know there is trial and error, but you want answers that make more sense to you. I will say that you do have to trust the person helping you. I trust my pharmacist. If I didn't I would have freaked out even more when he told me he was going to lower the doses on my estrogen and progesterone when I cried out for help three months ago. I was like..."No...no." But, as you all know, I am doing very well. The weight that has been stuck to me for the past nine months is finally starting to come off (I eat very healthfully and work out religiously and have for years). I am doing Armour thyroid, too, and I have stepped up my work outs, but there is a big difference in my body shape and it has been noticably better since starting the new script. This is a very happy by-product for me, but, the real reason I had to do in-depth readjustment was because of the other menopausal symptoms that were creeping back up on me, like urinary incontinence, restless leg syndrome, forgetfulness,etc. I'd had help for years cuz of the bio's, but, I have been much more proactive recently and it has paid off.

I want you to ask the (hopefully nice new guy/woman at the pharmacy) about oral progesterone. Progesterone on it's own does not make you sleepy. However, when it is taken in capsule form, there is a residue of sorts after it goes through the body (liver, probably) and it is that residue that makes you sleepy. That is why you take the oral form at night, or at least take the higher dose of progesterone at night if it is the oral kind.

Otherwise, progesterone cream, even though it helps make you calm, can have a somewhat more immediate effect of kind of perking you up. I don't want to say it stimulates you, but, it does not make you sleepy....let's say that. I learned about these things in Dr. Uzzi Reiss's book and also Northrup's book (The Wisdom of Menopause).

NOW, having said that, there is a rare side effect that is what they call a "paradoxical response" to oral progesterone. I had that...it caused big time bloating and horrible leg cramps at night. Woke me up in the night and had them in the day time several times, too. Horrible. Once I went back to the cream, I was better. But, I also was not on the right dose... I was on a tablet put under my tongue, and it was just weird. I was only on it for a few months. This was before I got smart and went back to my old pharmacist.

I will get the name of the website for you in a second. Take care...this will get better, or I swear, Katie and I see to it that a wonderful pharmacist will arrive on a white horse to take all your hormonal problems away :)

Mary

[AnotherKatie]

Debi I am so glad you laughed at that breathe thing, after I did it I got all worried!

These days we don't know whether to laugh or cry sometimes eh! I am doing pretty good, thank you, except for the headache, (maybe from trying to follow the threads here ha ha) which is better on the lower dose Estraderm patch (I am down to the 25 rather than the 50). I mentioned at the cyber party that I have managed to get an ulcer (good grief) my doctor thinks from all the Motrin I have taken, for first the surgery swelling and then the throbbing head! So that wasn't terribly bright on my part.  I switched to Tylenol. I think the estrogen dose might be too low though because I am having hot flashes and have gotten that all over itching thing, and it's kinda tough to scratch everywhere unobtrusively while standing in line at the grocery store. I am also breaking out.  
Wow what an organ recital this is turning into.
Mary, that site you posted yesterday is excellent. I can obtain what Dr Erika is promoting here where I live, but that is great for people who may not have access to it. Thank you for the information. And a sincere big (((hug))) for ALL your postings.
Love, Katie

[DebiR]

Thanks for the info.  I was on the oral progesterone about a year ago when my ovaries where fried after radiation.  It did cause me to really puff up after about a month - and honestly did not really help the sleep.  Sleep got better when my ovaries recovered a bit but now with them gone it is really bad.  This compounding pharm that I go to (in Naperville, IL) was supposedly named phar of the year by the International Compounding Assoc or something like that.  So maybe once I get the consult he will be better but right now I feel like he dosnt really give a rip.  I will check out some of the other info - just hangin on by my fingernails now!!