Hormones vs. No Hormones

[Kat64]

I am one week into recovery from a total hysterectomy and hear now on the news about breast cancer being reduced as to not many people taking replacement hormone therapy.  Any thoughts on whether it is better to take it or not.  The doctor put me on Primarin.....and wondering how long I should take it or if.  I am on 2nd day of taking it and have had heart palpatations last couple days.

[AnotherKatie]

I cannot believe that doctors would still put their patients on Premarin.
I personally would not take it. It is synthetic.  
There are much better hormone replacements.  I am on the Estraderm patch... doctor prescribed....it is FDA approved and bioidentical.

[scoutshadow]

I agree, please think again about the Premarin.  It doesn't take a lot of research or time to get bioidentical hormone treatment - your body will accept this much better than synthetics.

[Mary 53]

Please run, don't walk, to anything put out by Dr. Erika Schwartz. She has several books on hormones (the kind the body can use safely and effectively if prescibed right and tested periodically) and she has a website. You can also sign up for her weekly newsletters. She is supportive, kind, and smart and is a very strong advocate for women's health.

The other book full of great information is "The Wisdom of Menopause." The book is by Dr. Christianne Northrup...I kid you not when I say that this author's information changed my life dramatically.

The whole thing on hormones and breast cancer is so confusing and mixed up.

Ok, I took the news from Erika Swartz that I had and formated it so you could take a look at it without haveing to slide the page back and forth....didn't think I could figure out how to do that!!!! OK...enough with my self-congratulations. Take a look at this:

------------------------------------------------------
From Dr. Erika Schwartz..


Great NEWS! In 2003 breast cancer cases in the US dropped by 7%, says a new study from the M.D. Anderson Cancer center in Houston. Headlines across the country touted this information.
The researchers believe the reason for the decline may be that millions of women abandoned their synthetic hormone replacement therapy the previous year after the Womenıs Health Initiative spotlighted the danger.

Like the warning labels on medication, this bit of information needs to be taken with caution.

I donıt doubt that the reason breast cancer rates have dropped is connected to women tossing their Premarin into the garbage. But not mentioned in today's headlines is that fact  noted by the researchers  that breast cancer takes years to grow.

This study examined only data from August 2002 until the end of 2003.
But that was enough for the media to go full bore  making HRT the ³enemy du jour.²

It was the same media back in1969 that predicted that the same Premarin would be the ³fountain of youth² for menopausal women.
Four years ago after the WHI study, Premarin was a womenıs worst enemy.

Last week these same hormones  in the form of birth control pills - were being promoted as the panacea of freedom from mensturation altogether.

I am disturbed by this misinformation. I turn on the TV and all I see is doctors expounding on how all hormones are bad and we should all just stop taking hormones, yet again.
On one morning show, their medical expert was asked directly if bioidentical hormones were a viable option. Her answer: ³All hormones are the same.²

Not true.

I donıt want to spend my time going back into the debate over bioidenticals and their value. I want to go ahead.The problem here is about women and their health.

Who is caring for women?

What is a woman to do when the media just throws information at them without clear basis or substantial context?
Womenıs health is in shambles and the media is only adding to it.
Where is the truth? Where are the balanced options presented in a non-hysterical, unbiased way so women can make their own intelligent choices?

Not in the present state of the media.

Women need education, information and support. They do not need to be victimized, abused and used to sell fear, drugs and tests.
I am thrilled the cancer rates are dropping and I am sure I can safely speak for all women when I say this. Thank you and give us more information, look at the data in more depth and help us stay well in this life so we can continue to raise our children, care for our men and move society forward.

[Kat64]

Thanks for the information.  I had started taking it on Thursday, but have since stopped.  I should have known when the pharmacy asked why the dosage was so high.  They sent me home with a prescription for 1.25MG, and the standard dose is .625.  I had heart palpatations, and started spotting.  They told me at the hospital that I would spot for about two weeks after a hysterectomy, but had not bled since Saturday and then started taking the pills and it started back up.  I also have a burning sensation when urinating....mainly toward the beginning and also toward the end.  I have been trying to read up on it this weekend, and seen some women that were able to take it many many years and no problems, and some that said when they got off it, they had to go back on it bacause of its side effects coming back.  You know when a woman has a hyst. you don't know what to expect and here they start throwing hormones your way.  The doctor said that I did not have to take them, but said that I would feel much better if taken.  He claimed that the dosage that he gave me was lower than the body naturally produced.  So much confusion with it all.

[scoutshadow]

Kat,
Your body does produce hormones (oestrogen principally) after a hysterectomy and after menopause.  It comes from the fatty tissue especially around the thighs.  All women have this laying down of fatty tissue pre and during menopause and it's not a good idea to loose it - this happens also with ovarian removal.  The whole action is controlled by the pituitary gland at the base of the brain and is done as the ovaries loose their function.

A recent study showed that women with too much fatty tissue especially around the waist, were at a significantly increased chance from developing cancers that are oestrogen fed.  Also thinner women are more likely to develop osteoporosis.  It's a fine balance.

Also oestrogen is produced at variable rates during the monthy cycle with progesterone taking over as the period approaches.  We don't produce the same everyday unless we are in menopause and then it is for bodily functions rather than developing an egg and reproducing.

Mary, I think the extract you pasted is excellent - thanks for that.

[Kat64]

So do I not have to worry about HRT at all?  I have plenty of extra on the thigh and mid section...LOL...I have not taken any since Sunday.  I plan on talking to the doctor on my next appt....so much confusion on what to do.  If I don't take any hormones, then what.....if I do, then I take the chance of getting cancer and all....too many choices in life.....thought that life would be easier after a hyst.....but more confused than ever.

[A Rebel Spirit]

I had my TAH/BSO in March 06. My dr said no hormones, no way. I haven't taken any. I did have the hot flashes, night sweats, insomnia, etc. They have gotten better with time (and the temp outside dropping!). After all I have been through with fighting OVCA, I don't want to take anything that may mess me up later. Just my opinion!!! I know of many women here who have chosen to take them, especially the bioidenticals. I hope the hormones work for them without causing other problems in the future. I personally would rather put up with the menopausal symptoms than be sorry later.

[Mary 53]

Hi Kat,

There is sooooo much confusion about all this. And, the wording alone is confusing. Usually when a doctor hears you ask for hormones they think of the synthetics (such as Premarin). This has happened to me. I have told the doc (when asked) what meds I am on, I mention the progesterone and get a blank stare. "Why would you want to be on that?" (They are obviously thinking of Progestins...synthetic progesterone, and yet, it gets termed "Progesterone"....grrr..

"Well, because I have receptors for it in my lungs and in my brain and it balances out the estrogen I take so that I don't end up in estrogen dominance...but, I don't want to quit the estrogen."

Have I totally confused you now? Personally, I feel more protected now than when I was not on any hormones. In fact, the consenses is that my ovarian cancer was caused by an imbalance of hormones...too much estrogen and near zero progesterone (which is not produced when you are not ovulating...and that can start in perimenopause).

Scoutshadow is right about the estrogen. The estrogen produced by the body is called "Estrone." It is considered a more aggressive kind of estrogen and the level fluctuate or sometimes are not enough for the body to function as it did before...like before surgery, or before menopause, or even perimenopause. Now, and this is my opinion, but why women are not told about the progesterone (to at least balance the estrogen the body is making) is puzzling to me. But, this product, since it is a bioidentical product, cannot be patented, so there is not the big push by the drug companies. In fact, the drug companies complain about their usage. One of the plants in New York that made Premarin and Prempro had to close due to lack of orders for the products since the bioidentical hormones have gained in popularity and respect.

IF women today had lots of babies and nursed each one, she would build up the hormones needed to take her through menopause without a ton of problems....This is not so much the case today. And, also, with a surgical menopause, the effects are more dramatic to begin with.


Everyone is so different. I personally had such a hard time with menopausal symptoms (even while on bioidentical estrogen) that I shudder to think of what my life would be like right now without the help I have gotten...I added Progesterone nine months after I started the estrogen (day after the hysterectomy) and two types of testosterone. My dose of estrogen has also been adjusted based on my needs. My cholesterol is down now that we have the right dose of progesterone, my leaking bladder is tighter (thank goodness)...memory funtion, libido, heart palps., thyroid (although I needed thyroid meds too)...vision problems, chemical sensitivities, dizziness, low motivation, etc....I will tell you, that when I have one of these symptoms, or whenever I have any symptom, I look at hormonal balance first...and, usually that is where the problem is. Then I have to visit my doctor for adjustments. And, I have eaten healthfully for...well, forever...and, I exercise about four times a week. I am just adding that since this part of my life goes hand in hand with the hormones in my system...

But I have also done research on all of this for over six years. And, my sister, a nursing instructor, has done the same, and has been on the the bioidenticals post-hysterectomy since the mid 90's.

There are some who cannot take the hormones...but, even so, I would suggest Northrup's book since she has so many ideas on how to handle menopause...the book is chock full of ideas and information.

Not trying to leave you hanging. Short of writing a book on this thread, well, I could go on for pages and pages....But, I would suggest an exhaustive study before you decide to forget this issue. At least that way you can make an informed decision.

Dr. Erika and Dr. Nothrup both have websites ..Suzanne Somers' website has some information, too, although her newest book is somewhat controversial. I think it is still interesting and she has tons of info other than just hormonal info.....also try googling the words "bioidentical" or "Bioidentical vs. synthetic hormones"...see what comes up. You will get info on how to obtain even more information....what to ask your doctor...who to speak to in your community...usually a compounding pharm. is a good place to start.

It is a whole new world!

My best to you!

Mary

[Kat64]

So should I ask my doctor to do some blood work on me to see how much hormones or if any needed?  I did nurse all three of my kids....if that is any help.  I have not had any symptoms other than heart palp.  Is that odd for almost two weeks after my total hyst?  I don't really want any of the symptoms, just wondering how normal it is to not have anything other than the palp.  Thanks again for all the information.

Kathy

[Mary 53]

Hi Kathy (my sister's name :))...

This is where it does get a bit complicated. It all depends on your doctors feelings about women/hysterectomies/hormones/understanding the crucial role hormones play in daily life...forever.

I am thinking you had, or are having, the heart palpatations because of the disruption to the amount of estrogen you are getting now that the ovaries have been removed. Too little estrogen can cause heart palps as can too much (when not balanced with progesterone, which can be called estrogen dominance).

Here is the tricky part...some doctors don't believe in "estrogen dominance." Some don't believe in the bioidenticals...And, for others...hormones is not their specialty. That is why it is so important for you to learn all that you can about all this...so you will know where to turn for answers. Hopefully your doctor will be willing to work with you on this...I am grateful that my doctor was willing to work with me. He is one of the top docs in Minnesota, but was always happy to discuss my situation with the compounding pharmacist who more or less "guided" us on this journey into the world of bioidentical hormones. So, I did need a prescription for the progesterone...and I got that at the compounder's but I picked up the bioidentical estrogen (Vivelle Dot..I started at 1.0 mg, but they have .75.,and .50, and lower I am sure) at Target Pharmacy. The testosterone was ready for me at Target too. I could have gotten the pills "Prometrium" which is oral bio progesterone, but I chose the cream form instead.

I started at 2% then 3% then up to 10% strength and I am higher than that now since my blood work showed that it is hard for this stuff to get INTO my body...but, I am feeling so much better in the past few months since the dose for progesterone was raised. It is helping strengthen the ureter/vaginal area which had started to atrophy due to low estrogen/progesterone levels. I was facing bladder surgery, so I am grateful that I might be sparred that surgery.

I can see where a blood test may be helpful, although the signs of losing the progesterone in your body will not be fully recognized until you are three months out from the surgery (I tell you...it hit me ALMOST to the DAY!)...the mental fog, poor word-retrieval...once I got on the progesterone, things gradually improved (it took about two months, but I felt wonderful for the first time in years...). However, the estrogen levels four you will probably be accurate if you tested now. I am just not sure. I would bet that 12 weeks out might be recommended as far as checking the blood work. I know that if you go off the pill and want hormone levels checked before starting the bioidenticals, they say to wait 12 weeks to check blood levels. I don't think that means one has to wait to start...just wait to check blood levels.

Again, check out the sites I referenced and for sure pick up the books. Don't let it overwhelm you...I feel we are paving the way for our daughters.

Oh, and, yes...I would think that (based on the info I have read) that you might be in a good position to have less severe symptoms since you had three children and nursed them...Check out Erika Schwartz, MD book on Hormones...Now I cannot remember which book it is...Natural hormones ..something about "in thirty days." She explains why things are harder for this generation and the connection between births and hormone needs. But, to be honest, I would have to dig out my books to check this out. You can probably find something on line. But, with a surgical menopause, you might still be in need of some help...I am just not sure. I had one child at age 32...only child, so I am in a different boat perhaps.

Best to you. Hope this helps.

Mary

[dalip]

Hi
Just wanted to say i had the last of my reproductive system(ovaries)removed 4 wks ag0. The surgeon who came to see me asked if i wanted hrt. My reply was that i would wait until my 6-8wk follow up and see how things go.As far as i can tell everybody reacts differently to the menopause and until you actually enter it you dont know how its going to affect you.I have had some night sweats and i am a little irate(but again that might be because its nearly xmas, i get like this every year)but not bad enough to consider taking hrt.Dawn

[Kat64]

Thanks so much for those who have replied with information to me.  I will be going to the doctor next Wednesday.  I hope to get some answers.  I have not taken anymore HRT, and do not feel any different.  I only took 3 pills though.  You all have a Merry Christmas!!!