dian07 - question about progesterone

[Tybear]

I'm curious about the hormones your taking. Did you have a total hysterectomy? I was under the impression that if you don't have a uterus, then you don't need progesterone. What was your type of cancer again? I gained 30lbs as well, and I'm trying to fight my way through this hormone mess - all I take is estrogen .90mg a day. Do you really think the progesterone is helping with your weight loss? Sorry for all the questions!

[alljays]

I was reading your info on progesterone and I have recently been prescribed progesterone by my gynocologist to help start my period, after skipping one. I am only 38 and I haven't had any problems with my period since the birth of my last child almost four years ago.  I also have thyroid problems which consist of nudules and a goiter and a past diagnosis of thyroiditis after the birth of my last child. I was just wondering what your input was on the two being related and what are the symptoms of having low progesterone.
Thanks,
alljays

[Mary 53]

Forgot to mention...I was on Wellbutrin. But, if I am "balanced" with my bio estrogen and my progesterone, I do alright. Although, I got bigger relief and went off Welburtrin for good when I got on Armour Thyroid. Found that I had a thyroid issue that had to do with low body temp. I feel much better now. Many symptoms of depression are really related to a thyroid issue...not always of course, but often. And, menopause and thyroid issues seem to go hand in hand. More info later if you need it...gotta walk "The girls"...(dogs).

[Tybear]

Sheesh!! Why did this have to happen to me at 27??? I swear I can handle the cancer part, it's everything else that will make me go crazy! Ok, so bottom line is that I should look into getting Bioidentical Progesterone cream? (if I read that right) My Dr is a Man, but he seems pretty open to whatever I ask him for. I think he just feels awful that this even happened to me, so he's willing to do whatever to make my life easier. I was going to go in this week and ask about Wellbutrin. Should I try the progesterone first incase it helps with my depression? I'm from Canada, and I hear people talk about compounding pharmacies etc... and I don't think we have those things here. Can I get it at a regular pharmacy? My insurance covers 90% of the cost of all my prescriptions, so I'm not worried about cost. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for all of your knowledge! Getting involved with hormones is a little like opening Pandora's Box, huh? Once your in, you'll never be free!

[Mary 53]

Hi. I know...I know. I often wonder why all of this happened. I sometimes wonder if it was meant to be for me to feel so horrible after my surgery so that I would jump on the research (which I really do like doing) bandwagon and get some answers. I do feel it is almost a duty to try to spead the word about all this.

There is so much info about progesterone and all of the great things it can do for you. And, if you think about it this way...if you had any other type of cancer (particularly involving female organs) would they remove your ovaries? Well...no. And, there is a woman in Minneapolis who is a doctor specializing in women's hormones who thinks that our bodies are not meant to be without these hormones...and, if you really get into it, well, women are living so much longer these days....having fewer children (there is a big connection to having more than a few children and the constant flow of hormones throughout the body that saved our Grandmother's from having a horrible time hormonally with menopause, etc) but, I digress.

Do hit a few websites before you see your doctor just to get more info. I like Dr. Erika Swartz (I think that is her last name...geez, and I have her book) but the website is Drerika and it is a dot com (don't want to leave a link). She is cool and has done this for years (working with the bioidenticals). Also, I do love "The Wisdom of Menopause" by Northrup. And, she started the website "Women to Women"  but she has her own website now. I have a good friend who saw her in Maine while Northrup was still practicing. She mainly researches and lectures now as far as I understand.

As far as insurance....we need to call out for "AnotherKatie" she is about to go on progesterone and I am not sure if she is getting it at a compounding pharm or a regular pharm.

To confuse you further....I think you can get the pills for progesterone at a reg. pharm. I do better with the cream, though, so I prefer getting mine thru the compounder. In the states this is available over the counter as well as at the pharm. But over the counter is a lower strength and not always standardized. But, the best form is thru the compounder and this way they can adjust the dose, too. I currently take 3% cream twice a day...1/2 ml. I think.

Good luck. And, our docs sound similar. Mine has been great, although, I will say that he has learned so much from my compounder who really knows his stuff.

Let us know how this goes for you. Yes...you are so young. You deserve a high quality of life...hang in there. I am not sure where I'd be without this stuff. Honest.

Mary

[Mary 53]

Tybear, this is a bit long, but there is a lot to all this. I did type a brief note to you at the bottom of this...Mary
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Bioidentical hormones...Progesterone vs. Progestins.

Here is what you have to do over the next few days before you go in and try to educate your doctor. Research. Write down notes...bullet points of comments. If you have Suzanne Somers' book, that is a good start. And, great as she is, I am afraid if this doctor thinks you don't need progesterone because you don't have a uterus she is not going to be interested in hearing about a book from "Chrissy Snow" from an old TV show. Unfortunetly, that is the kind of reaction you might get. But, just talk calmly and confidently and say that  you have immersed yourself in research.

Before I tell you in my words why your doc is wrong.....about the uterus thing and all....go and find Dr. Erika's website. ( drerika.com is the site ) . She what she has to say.

Find Dr. Christianne Northrup.....if possible get her book. "The Wisdom of Menopause" is what saved me. And, from that book and the info that she gave, I picked up two or three other books on progesterone. "Progesterone; the New Estrogen" was one book. Very good. Although, nobody had better try to take away my estrogen.

Reiss's book will help with the testosterone issue. I am not sure what the deal is with testosterone. I hear in one place that you cannot get it...but, that it can be compounded. That one is natural but not approved by the FDA. HUH? Well, all I know is that I have two types of testosterone. I just started one of them and it is 2mg/0.1ML of cream. I use 0.1ml to my inner thighs each morning (it is energizing so you would not use it at night). But, I also have testosterone in a gel that can be used to "perk" up the labial area....but the cream on the thighs is the one I use for more systemic action (all throughout the body). I don't know if the doc will allow me to keep the gel type script....it is kind of stong, but if I lower the dose and use it a few times a week, it will help me if needed.

Testosterone will help with mental clarity, fatigue, mood, weight management, etc. Women need it.

Ok. The Progesterone issue. I know you are going to have to tip toe a bit on this one. After all, you will be educating the doctor. So, you might want to start all of this with a comment such as, "Well, doctor, as you know (which obviously she doesn't.....grrrrrrr)".....and, then you will need to know your stuff...so, here is the deal.

When the synthetic hormones came out about..what? 35 years ago....it was basically a fake estrogen ...such as Premarin. It is not the same molecularly as the estrogen our bodies produce. It is one molecule off. It is made from the urine of pregnant mares. It is a drug put out by Wyeth. It has a million side effects.

Now...some women do okay on this...especially short term. It will mask the side effects of menopause. But, again, regarding the side effects...this was the drug (again...this is not a real hormone) that was used in the Women's Initiative years ago that was pulled because women were getting sick from it (I will say that looking at the study, it was flawed from the beginning due to the older average age of the women in the testing....you can read about the study on Suzanne Somers' web page)...none the less, when I was reading about progesterone in 2001....I recall the book I was reading discussed the potential hazards of Premarin and Prempro...and the author of the book could not believe that women were actually being used in the study....there was great concern for the health of the women. The Bio's were NEVER used in this study. And, then, as you know, the study was abruptly stopped a few years ago. But, this is funny....because even my husband came running to me to tell me to turn on the TV set because they found a problem with the hormones used for menopausal symptoms....NO THEY DID NOT...THEY FOUND A PROBLEM WITH THE DRUGS used in the study. Yes. I am passionate about all this.

Ok...I digress...but, do study the above so that you will be prepared. Here is where the confusion about progesterone comes in. When women were taking ONLY fake estrogen, such as Premarin, there was concern about the women getting uterine cancer. Now, this is a very rare cancer, but none-the-less...this became a big concern. So, the pharmaceutical companies developed a fake progestin that would help protect the uterus from getting uterine cancer. So, it did have small benefit.... the fake estrogen was raising a red flag with concerns about uterine cancer, that they developed a fake product that caused even more problems...but, at least it protected the woman from getting the rare disease of uterine cancer. What an irony.

See the difference? The product used to protect the uterus is a Progestin. Not Progesterone. They cannot legally call it progesterone. So, they put the drug progestin in with the fake estrogen, Premarin, and called it "Prempro"   (Premarin + Progestin). There...now you were supposedly covered. You had it all. Yuck. Progestins are not good. There have been great concerns about breast cancer, etc......well...just go and find the side effect list of progestin or Prempro....you will see. And, I would bet that high cholesterol is listed, too.

The problem now is this.....the doctors and everyone else in the med. community started mixing up the names. Progestestins became progesterone......and the names are often used interchangably. I just thought of an analogy. Think of breast milk. Then think of baby formula. One is clearly not the other, but both will get the job done. I guess that is not a great example, actually, because there are some good formula's out there...but, most would agree that breast milk is the best way to go if possible. But, you would not call breast milk "formula" or formula "breast milk."

So, it is understandable, but sad, that you would be told you don't need  (what the doctor called ..progesterone...cringe...) since you don't have a uterus. I have been told the same thing. I went for a check up a few years ago and the nurse asked me what I was taking....I said, Bioidentical Progesterone (just say the two words together for safety's sake) and she said..."Why do you take that....(aghast)!!! You don't have a uterus." I felt like saying...."Yes...but, I do have a brain." Actually, I did say something like that thinking I could educate this poor woman who happened to be about my age and probably going thru a natural menopause. I told her that we have receptors (cell receptors) in our brains.... in our lungs........Progesterone builds bone. Estrogen protects us from bone loss but only progesterone of all the hormones will build it back up.

The other big thing is that whenever you take estrogen, such as you are, in a bio form, you need to balance it with bio progesterone. I know that I was unbalanced for years. I about cried when I read the info on progesterone and estrogen dominance when I was researching progesterone before asking my doctor if I could go on it. Migranes, allergies, anxiety, depression, mental fog, leg cramping, weight struggles. I had it all.

The reason I was in estrogen dominance and low on progesterone for years before my hysterectomy for ovarian cancer at age 47 was because I was not always ovulating. There were signs of this....once it was documented by a lab when a sample of my blood was sent in as I was bleeding profusely and needed a D and C . Turns out I had not ovulated at all (they were checking for miscarriage). When you do not ovulate, you don't produce progesterone. And, this is what happens in the late 30's and 40's and it, in my understanding, is the start of perimenopause.

Gol, there is so much more. Cream form....pill form....I would say go for the cream to start....it might be a bit more expensive if insurance is only covering a bit (the cream is compounded at a compounded pharmacy) but you will get on some good stuff (probably 2% or 3 % to start) and then you can continue to research and someday you may switch to capules.
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Tybear,

I did edit some of this as I'd written to someone with whom I had already corresponded, and she had the book, "The Sexy Years" by Suzanne Somers. I think there was a concern that Suzanne was discussing the needs of women going through "Natural" menopause and not a surgical one. But, it is a good book none the less.

Talk to you later. Take care. Mary

[Mary 53]

I recently wrote up something regarding progesterone and the reason so many people think that you don't need it if you have had your uterus removed.

I am sure Dian will be along soon. I know she won't mind me responding to this. Hang on and I will find my information. I can write more tomorrow...as I have read your posts and wondered how you were doing. Mary