Chronic Back Pain

[Gigi4647]

I am a 48 year old female. I have been diagnosed with buldging L3 - L5 disks with a bone spur. I also have osteoarthritis in back and both hips. I was diagnosed by an Orthopaedic Surgeon who specializes in spinal treatments. I began an excercise routine and found the pain too great to excercise.
I have had MRI w/contrast and spinal X-rays. I was told to start with steroid epidural shots to the L4-L5 area.
I have had first shot. My question: What is the success rate of pain reduction with this type of treatment/Are these shots supposed to take away all pain or just take the edge of the amount of pain?

[nick30]

red said
"My back doctor said I would need the surgery in about three years time in 2004. I asked him how many procedures he had done and he said that he had done none at that time and they hadn't done any in the US yet.
I'm thinking.....This guy is telling me I need surgery that he doesn't even know how to do yet. What the hell am I doing here? "

oh man, i would be running away from that(shuffling quickly)

yeah i've had those shots too, did zero for me. it was my fault though. I asked for them coz nothing was working and the dr's seemed to be taking thier sweet time. they can cause problems though can't they? I read somewhere that they can be responsible for adhesive arachnoiditis. is that true?

i also have benefited from doing the excercises i got from a great PT. but i could only do them after i started seeing a PM doc, coz they were/are way painful to do, but i am confident that i understand why they will help in the long run.

nick

[Red931]

Molly,

They are doing a new procedure with bulging discs that is done by shaving the disc with a laser of some sort. I don't remember the name of the procedure but I will look it up when I get the time.

It has not been done that long in the US, but has been in Europe for some time.

You know thay started to total disc replacements in Europe about 7 years ago. They have had good results with it over there. They started doing it in the US in or around 2007.

My back doctor said I would need the surgery in about three years time in 2004. I asked him how many procedures he had done and he said that he had done none at that time and they hadn't done any in the US yet.

I'm thinking.....This guy is telling me I need surgery that he doesn't even know how to do yet. What the hell am I doing here?

The first doctor that did it here in NJ had a successful procedure the first time out but is being sued by several other patients from what I have been told.

For me, as long as I can walk....keep your scalpel in your pocket doc.

I wish I was able to say that with all of my other orthopedic problems.

[Mollyrae]

Hello Gigi:

I will add my two cents worth. I have bulging discs at L3-4 and have also had the shots. They did nothing for me but added pain. Believe it or not, my Orthopedic Surgeon told me that Bulging Discs are a very common problem for many and there is not much that can be done for it. I have had mine for about 4 years now.

In my opinion, the shots were a waist of time and money.

Please take care.
Molly

[TrishaT]

I have a ruptured disc at L4-L5 and a bulging disc at L2-L3 I have had the shots and they did no good for me, think it made it worse.

Good luck, I hope it helps you.

Pat

[Red931]

I was using an Orthopedist that only specialized in the spine as well. I did go to physical therapy also for my back. That is why I have been able to control my back pain better than any other of my orthopedic injuries.

Once you learn the exercises in therapy, you can buy all of the excercise equipment and therapy equipment for a releatively small fraction of the cost of having to go to physical therapy three times a week.

You can stretch yourself, you don't need someone else to do it for you when your discs are injured at the bottom of your spine.

As Tuck and Mikey agreed and I will say again, everyone is different so don't be discouraged if they don't work. Also as Mikey stated you will probably be offerered Facet Injections should the Epidural not work. It will be up to you whether you go that way if the time comes. I didn't take them. I did not feel the need to try them if the others didn't work and also didn't want to risk some of the same additives that I was allergic to in the Epidurals being in those.

If you would like to know what mild stretches I do as well as the products that I use you cam PM me anytime and I will be glad to tell you.

[Mikeysbrat]

Hi. I have similar injuries with hernaited discs and a bulging disc at L-5,L-4  as well as degenerative disc disease. I have had several epidural injections and have had no relief from my pain infact I was actually worse afterwards. I dont just mean as in pain from the injections but my back pain worsened. they then tried facet joint blocks which are similar to epidural injections and had the same result. everyone responds differently. I hope they work for you. I myself have had no luck and need to rely on my pain meds from my PMD. It's hard to admit when you need to rely on pain meds just to function on a daily basis with normal activities but that is reality for some of us. I certainly hope you have success with your injections. If the regular epidural cortisone injections dont help you should bring up facet joint block injections with your doctor as they may be more beneficial due to your injuries.

[Gigi4647]

Thank you for the information. It really helps to hear others stories. It makes me hopeful that the treatment plan the Spine Specialist, Orthopaedist, I go to has set up for me might work. I will stick to his plan and I will be in touch and let you know how it works for me.
Again, thank you.

Gigi4647

[Tuckamore]

Hello Gigi,

Welcome to our Pain Management Forum.I am sorry that you are experiencing pain not only from your discs but from the osteoarthritis.

Red has responded with some good personal experience. And he is so correct that everyone is different. My 44 year old brother has the same condition in his L3-L5 that flared two years ago. His pain was so severe is was literally crawling, unable to walk upright or sit for more than a a few minutes. He is a staunch, never complaining male and I was sure he would require surgery. He had two ESI's seven days apart followed by a third one 21 days after the last. I am happy to report that though he still has what he calls a "touchy back" has significantly improved. Over the course of 12 weeks with PT added to his regime he returned to work and has not even required narcotics. I would say his outcome has been ideal. He is a small boned man, 5'9', 145
pounds. I think that was in his favor but he did and does smoke tobacco and that is consider depramental to good spine health and healing.

I on the other hand had steroidal injection into my SIJ with little if any relief. Everyone responds differently, even brothers and sisters.

According to my the searching I have done the success rates vary from 48% - 80%.They are dependant upon the initial condition, the skill of the practitioner(injection placement) and how well your system responds to the treatment. Pain relief can last from one to twelve months. My brother certainly has done much better than any statistics. These injections are not viewed as "cures." They are usually incorporated into a multi-focal treatment regime.

I am hopeful that they will work for you. Please let us know how you are doing. I know how debilitating back pain can be!
Best of luck and please keep in touch. Tuck

[Gigi4647]

Thank you for the information. Your story definitely helps. I have just begun the process with the epidural injections and am going to go though with the series of 2 shots.
The Anthesiologist that I go to for Pain Management has told me to go through the series of 2 shots and if that does not help then this procedure will not work for me.
I am also scheduled for Physical Therapy (PT) after the shot series.
Have you gone throught PT for your pain? I was wondering if this method helps also.

Again, thank you for the information
Gigi4647

[Red931]

I have a bulge and herniations at L4-L5 and L5-S1 so I know what you sre going through. I have also had the epidural spinal injections in a hospital setting.

As you know already you have to have a series of three shots ten days apart. The first series if injections gave me a fair amount of pain relief for about 2 months. That wasn't bad but the doctor expected it to last longer. Everyone responds differently due to age, weight, gender, and the progression of their injury. I don't know of anyone that is totally pain free after receiving them.

After my first series of injections I noticed that I was breaking out in hives and had a low grade fever that lasted for 7 to 10 days. The funny thing was that this reaction didn't happen until about 5 to 7 days after the injections.

Naturally the doctor insisted that it could not have occured due to the injections because our bodies make cortisone and said that I must have come in contact with something else that I have an allergy to.

I had a second series of injections and after the first injection it happened again. I actually was covered in hives when I received the second injection. I then went to an Allergist and he determined that there was something in the mixture of the injection, not the cortisone, that I am allergic to.

But anyway, to make a long story short they did work for my pain but it is short lived and the next thing you know you have to get them again. Also like anything else the more often you get them, the less effective they will be each time thereafter.

I have friends that have to get them every two months and still have to take pain medication anyway. They are very costly even if you have insurance, so I would see how you make out after this series and decide if it is worth it to do them again.

I use Ice Paks and Heat as well as a TENS Unit to help with my pain as well as my pain meds. I have found that this is effective for me and keeps me from having to take more pain medication than necessary. I apply the stimulation with the Ice or heat at the same time, usually at night before bed. Works great.

I hope this helps you. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.

Dino