I am taking a low dose of Percocet 5-325 3x's a day, for chronic back and neck pain from a MVA. The problem is that even though I take it the way I should, I have had 2 negative drug screens. What can cause this. Please help.
It all depends on how much money the employer (or whoever it is that is forcing you to take the test) wants to spend. A very good friend of mine works for a drug testing company, and there are many different panels the clients (employers) can choose from. Some only look for alchol or marijuana; others look for everything they can afford.
Since your meds are legally prescribed, there shouldn't be a problem. Usually when you go in for testing you are questioned about what prescription meds you take, so if you listed the percocet, it wouldn't count as an illicit chemical on your test. Also, the percocet is short-acting, so the level in your urine may have been too low for detection at the time you took the test.
HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN ONE BEFORE YOU GO IN TO BE TESTED? THERE ARE SO MANY SCAMMERS OUT THERE THAT IT IS HURTING US BY WAY OF PAIN MEDS...THEY SEE SO MANY DRUG SEEKERS THAT I'M SURE IT DRIVES THEM NUTS, I WOULD HATE TO NOT BE ABLE TO TRUST MY DR. BUT THAT'S HOW THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT TO TREAT US B/C OF THE FED GOV.. AND PAIN MEDS....
Percocet is a synthetic opioid. In order to have a positive U/A a lab test called a GC/MS or Gas Chromotography/mass spectrography has to be done and the time from the last dose needs to be considered.
I am on a pain management program. The doctor just started testing for the presence of the prescribed medications, to my astonishment the results came back negative. We then three days later did a serum level and the same results. I swear on all that is sacred to me I am taking my medications as prescribed, but now because of thses tests I have been "cut off" I am having horrible withdrawel. I am trying to set up a lie detector test in order to prove that I have not in any way diverted, misused, or any thing else other than take my medications. I am so upset and I just can't understand how they could be negative when I AM taking all the medications. I am at the point as to why try any more. I have RSD I don't know if anyone here has this but it is impossible to live with. What can I do? I can't fo back to this kind of pain. The medications were the only things that kept me functioning.
I just went to the Dr yesturday and the same thing happened to me.. I went last month for a drug test and when I went to the Drs. this month He flat out refused to give me my meds saying that my drug test came back negative for any of the meds that I was perscribed. I like you take my meds all the time Unless I know that I have to drive and I told him that. But he still didnt want to hear it. I also have RSD and been on these meds for 3 years I have NO IDEA why they are not in my system. Im gonna end up going threw horrible withdrawl soon and Im scared to death. Im on Methadone and Vicodin and He just Cut me off after one test comming back Negitive and I dont understand how it could. He called me a lyer and told me to never come back to his office. But there is no other Pain clinic in the area. WHAT WOULD CAUSE THE RESULTS TO COME BACK NEGITIVE when I TAKE THE MEDS????
With so many people having this problem I have been doing some research....
It seems that these test have cutoff levels as in some are very sensitive while others are not sensitive enough to detect the drugs.
Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to answer your interesting
question. I am not a medically trained physician but I am a law
enforcement laboratory technician who routinely handles evidence
including specimens for drug screens.
A drug screen is a complex thing and the higher tuned (more sensitive)
it is the more complex it becomes. You see, drug screens can be
adjusted to detect various trace amounts of many different types of
drugs. Some test react positively for the presence of drugs
(substances or derivatives) only if those traces appear in the test
medium in certain volumes. For example, a person on parole may be
given a test for marijuana (cannabis, hash, etc) that will respond
positive if the test medium contains traces above a certain “cutoff
level” where the cutoff level is very low (10ng/ml possibly) . Whereas
a person applying for a job may be given a test for marijuana
(cannabis, hash, etc) that will respond positive only if the test
medium contains traces above a certain “cutoff level” where the cutoff
level is very high (50ng/ml possibly).
There is some recent history with false results as is evidenced by
studies conducted by the Veteran’s Administration (VA). For example,
the VAGLAHS Outpatient Pain Program (OPMP) utilizes a standard Drug of
Abuse (DOA) immunoassay and Biorad High Performance Liquid
Chromatography (HPLC) Remedi-HS. These tests are used to monitor for
medication compliance. In 2004 as many as 44 % of patients tested
were found negative for opiates despite patient prescribed opioid
medication. The VA concluded that the DOA test was not sensitive
enough (in other words the cutoff was too high to detect the presence
of opioids commensurate with what the VA considered minimum
.‘Result of Urine Toxicology in VA Patients Treated In a Pain Clinic’
I think my above post is saying that the test these Dr's are using are not the best for our situation. In order to test positive for our meds we have to have the required amount in our system that the test requires in order to test positive. If one test requires only trace amounts then surly there will be no problem, if one test requires that a high level be detected then we will have to have that level in order to test positive. Now to me this is outrageous that the Dr who orders these test can order the test that requires higher levels of the drug to be present in order to be positive, therefore some will and have failed these test. There is a member here that is a lab tech and can answer far more questions about this I will see if we can get him to reply.
I just posted this a while ago before I saw this one. I thought I would add it to the comments of this post as well.
I've been on pain meds for over 3 years. I take about 250 mg of OXY a day. I recently moved so I'm looking for a new Dr. I found one and took his initial drug test. The results so he claims are NOT what they should be. He accused me of diverting some of my pain meds. Even though I tested positive he said that the results showed that the levels of drugs did not coincide with what I am prescribed/ taking. Is this possible? Do they have the ability to detect the actual amounts consumed in urine? Aren't their a lot of variables involved that can influence this? For Ex. When I know I have to drive to the Dr.'s I do NOT take my meds that day until after I get home. Could this be why my levels were down? I always take my meds EXACTLY as prescribed, and believe me I need them. I would NEVER give them or sell them to someone else. Please help?
I also would NEVER sell or not take my pills. The only time that I dont take my meds is like you when I know I have to drive. I have RSD and 4 hurnated disks in my back and a few deteriorating tisks.(how ever you spell it). And Like you Im in too much pain to not take my meds. But my (OLD) PM dr said that I dont take them and he stopped seeing me cause my drug test(urine) came up Negative. Im so upset about all of this. I havent been on my Methadone since weds. now. cause he wouldnt give it to me. And now he will not even see me anymore. My PCP did give me the vicodin that I was also taking but he said that he isent allowed to write the Methadone or he said that he would. I have been going threw withdrawls and I feel like ****. So I ended up calling the PM dr today just to explain my side alittle better,(seeing I was so upset when I went to him on thursday) and there was no dr in the office today. I also think that the antibiotics that I am put on every other month to every month for a kidney infection had to have something to do with the test results. I was told that Methadone can cause these infections SO there for I must be taking them, but the PM dr seems to think that Im not taking them. My PCP dr knows that I am taking them he believes me. I have never NOT taken my pills except for as like you Driving. I CANT drive on them they made me loopy... The meds that my PCP but me on to stop some of the withdrawl symptoms is working some what, The pain that I am in is HORRIBLE. I really need my meds back. I wish that drs didnt assume things and give ppl like me and you the benafit out the dought. Im not stupid I dont want to goto jail why would I hurt myself?
Again atleast your test showed something. Mine for some strange reason showed NOTHING. Did your dr still give you your meds? Or did he cut you off cold turkey like mine did to me? Mine wont even see me nomore. And there isent one around my area except for him.. I cant drive to the other one cause it is to far away from me. Where do you live?? Im in NY state, 80 miles from ny city. well I wish you luck with your dr, I know that its hard and stressful cause im kinda going threw the same thing as you.. Hang in there. Im trying and slowly slipping.
Wish there was something I could do. But Im also in need of HELP.....
Someone PLEASE help.......
Wonder, I hope you saw the reply I left you on your thread. I'm really sorry this happened to you both. If I could do something to help you both I would.
I know were all afraid that something could happen to our pain relief and am sorry both of you have to find out what it's like.
I'm not sure Wonder what your DR said this would mean for your pain treatment. The meds did come up so maybe there is a chance however small that your DR will retest your level and give you another chance.
I truely feel for what your going through babydm with withdrawls. You must be in alot of pain. Is there any way someone could give you a ride to the one a little further away until your able to get your pain stabalized?
Or maybe once you have gone through the withdrawls your DR that gave you the percocets could help you with something else other than methadone until your able to find another pain DR.
They are helping with the withdrawls maybe they would go a step further for you.
I wish I had one of those magic wands that speeds up time until you both find another DR(if you need one Wonder)
Please keep letting us know how your doing. We'll be thinking of you.
I don't live that far from my old Dr. and he still prescribes my Meds. THANK GOD. It's just a hassle to drive a hour for a prescription let alone the pain of sitting that long in a car without my meds. I was attempting to find a new Dr. Closer to home and he is the one who gave me the BULLS@#T. I was warned by my other Dr. that I might run into this because of the High dose I take. I think that the new A@#H#@E Dr. just did not want to take me as a patient so he lied and used it as an excuse to turn me away. But I want to be sure so that another Dr. can't say the same thing. If anyone knows about these LEVEL tests please let me know. From what I've read so far I don't think that they even exist.
I hope that you can find some help. My Regular PM Dr. told me that I could always go to the emergency room for help if I really needed it. Just a thought.
Good Luck Hope that you feel better.
i have no one that would give me a ride. Im suffering and my exPM wont even return my phone calls. The secretary there told me that he most likely wont return my calls either, cause he told me NEVER to come back to him. I have to goto my PCP on Monday. Im really hoping that there is something that he can do. I hate the ER here they are a bunch of ***** too. Well most of them are. When I mention the fact the I have RSD alot of them look at me like I have 10 heads and say ummm whats that??? Im loosing my mind. the withdrawls that Im having are bad. But like I just wrote to you my
pcp did give me something to help with the withdrawls it helps with
part of it, but not the really bad pain that im in. The pain that im
in now is 10 times worse then when I first started taking all of the
meds. Now out of no where I have a sever burning pain in my left
sholder on top of the RSD pain in my right leg and the back pain from
the degeneritive disk disorder and the hurneated disks in my back.
(sry my spelling really stinks). I have other withdrawl symptoms but
they arent that bad with the meds that my PCP gave to me. They are
still there but nothing like they were before he gave me those meds.
I called my PM dr today and the secretary took a message and said
that she is going to have him call me back, but I really dont think
that he is going to seeing he told me he never wanted to see me
again I really dont see how my PM dr can do this to me. I dont know
if anyone else in this group is from Ny state in the sullivan county
area that uses him as there dr, but if there is it would be really
nice to talk to you about this and see if he has done anything like
this to any of you. If by chance there is anyone in this group from
my area.. I really think that the meds that I was on when he took the drug test messed it up, but when I told my PM dr what meds I was taking besides what he gave to me he never wrote them down, or said anything about it .
Having RSD and all is bad enough. without having to add this into the
fight. I dont think that the drs realize the PAIN that we are all in
is real and will NEVER go away. I would never NOT take my meds I need
them to cope with everyday life. The only time I dont take them is
like I have said before I have to drive. And thats not much. mainly
only to see him or my PCP. Then I go right to the pharmacy and
stright home to take my meds and try to relax. I know that there is
alot of ppl out there that get them and give them away or sell them,
but im not one of those ppl. I really need them. I know in one of the
other chat places that I go into called MEDHELP. there are alot of
ppl talking about how ppl like us get F***ed over on our meds cause
of PPL out there selling them. that really never needed them to begin
with. RSD is REAL and so is all the PAIN that goes with it. I have
had it now for 5 years and these have been the worse 5 years of my
life. And now getting worse. Now with the withdrawls, having this
horrible burning pain(sort of feels like the rsd pain) in my sholder
and traveling into my back. I dont know what to do. I am gonna get
off of here for right now and try to relax. Im getting upset and im
starting to cry.
Hope that something can be done. Im going INSAIN..
I can only imagine how your feeling being cut off from your pain control, and I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.
Were you taking them every day without missing any days in between?
If your UA is completely clean then you may want to think about seeing your PCP to start looking into reasons why this could be happening and looking for a new DR to help control your pain,
Were you seeing a Pain management DR?
I know there have been others here who have gone through this also and I'm sure they will be able to offer you some other ideas as to what you can do right now.
This seems to be something that is happening alot more than should be.
I really think it has something to do with being on the meds so long cause I was on the Methadone for 3 years and I took 2 pills 3 times a day for 3 years and my test came up clean also. I really believe that our bodies must be so used to the medication that we are just getting rid of it way to quickly. Is that possable?? I really feel for you Help808. I too lost my dr and cant get my meds. Thank god with the Help of everyone here I am making it threw this. I have been dealing with this for over a month I even went as far as to writing my PM dr a LONG heart felt letter. Well I really dont know if he even read it cause I still havent heard anything BUT Im not letting it get to me. Im trying to keep my head up and think posative. I have to for myself and my children. Its a long hard battle that I have been going threw and I am really just taking it day by day and with the help of my friends on this computer Here in this group and in others that I goto. I did find a new dr Due to being in this group My PCP didnt even know the dr exsisted But I told him about him and that I found him threw my wonderful friends here in this group.. I believe that I told you all thank you for that. OH and I dont have to wait until October anymore to be seen. He pushed my appointment up and I have to go this thursday. Im just really worried that Im going to be pushed away, like the other dr did to me.. I know that I have to look on the brite side of things and think positive. Im trying. The ONLY bad part about pushing the appointment up to this thursday is that it isent in his office close to home but it is in his office that is alittle over an hours drive away.. But Im going to tough it out and drive there. I will let all of you know what happens.. Im going to see if he will do a blood test to check my drug test. And if the Meth is still there im going to send that in to my old PM dr.
Again Thank you all so much for being here when I needed you most. Im not saying that I dont need you all anymore. Trust me I DO.. You all supported me so much THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH....
I am going to start you a new post so you too can get the support and help that babydm29 did. She found a PM to treat her and got the PM' referral from here at Med help! So hang in there and use her as an example that working on the problem and getting support does get results and we will help all we can. Please add some info to the new post so we can help:)
I googled this topic and can't believe all the same stories I am reading here. I have been going to a pain mgmt specialist, though I use that term loosely and with sarcasm, for 5 years. For 5 years, I have been on 4 Vicodin-ES per day, for trigeminal neuralgia. I moved here with this diagnosis established, having already tried and failed on many meds, and Vicodin-ES being the only thing that worked. I, too, have to take it every single day or I die from withdrawal symptoms. Having been on it so long, I have withdrawal symptoms anyway every single day after about 2 hours of taking a pill. So, its been agony. Yet I never dare ask for any more or anything else. That's against the rules, if you know what I mean. Well, I, too, got a random urine drug screen, which I knew was coming for a long time, but I had not 1 ounce of fear or worry, as I always take my meds and never ever street drugs or anything. I don't drink or smoke. Totally boring life! Well, my UA came back 100% negative for Vicodin as well and the you-know-what hit the fan. I was stunned. They told me I must be stashing my supply and/or selling it. I was beyond stunned, to the point of tears. I stood my ground, denied it, and demanded to be treated for getting off these meds. What do they do? I make an appointment to see the PM for Suboxone, having no idea or clue what it was. The guy gives me a dose that per my pharmacist would have KILLED me, most likely, and my insurance company agreed. Now I go back tomorrow to PM to return the Suboxone scrip unfilled, and request a slow wean off Vicodin. This is NONSENSE. Why are we all testing NEGATIVE? I've done a lot of research on Pain Management web sites for doctors, and they discuss that NEVER should patients, especially pain patients, be FIRED for 1 negative drug screen, that there are way too many false negatives. But I, like you all, want to know WHY we are testing false negative? I believe in the theory that we've been on these meds so long. That seems to be a common thread here. I know I feel withdrawal symptoms starting about an hour or 2 after I take a pill. That's all the relief I get from withdrawal, so is it not possible that our bodies are metabolizing this stuff way faster than the average bear?? I am just like you all - I would die before I would not take my meds. I get SO SICK. Its preposterous to think otherwise. Does anyone have any more statistics of this occurring? Gosh, I really am sorry so many of us are having this happen. Its disgusting. I sit in the waiting room each month, and the skanks actually openly deal and exchange and sell their prescriptions, right in the office, and the receptionist could hear - if she wanted to. Also they get right down the hallway and start calling folks on their cell phones, saying they got their meds and will be right over. Or they sell it in the parking lot. And I am the one who gets kicked out??? No way. By the way, I have also reported to the Nurse Practitioners that this is going on, and wonder if that's not why I'm the one getting the boot. Stranger things have happened. Sorry to carry on, but I am so amazed to find hopefully some friends here, who understand the horror and panic of this emotionally, let alone the physical agony.
I agree this is happening entirely to often! I too have done extensive research and there are a staggering number of cases and that is very troubling. Many of the members here have said they will get independent test done from now on because of this problem. What are the common denominators here? I have tried to tie cases together with similarities and have found very few. I have wondered myself if this is a way to weed out the Pt's the Dr wants to no longer treat? Once you have been 'fired' you will have a great deal of trouble finding another Dr wiling to take a chance on you. There are several members here that has had this happen to them and it is awful! I believe we should have to sign contracts so should the Dr and they should have to abide by the rules just as we do. We have no recourse when this happens and the Dr's will not re-test believing the false negatives are bunk. I wish they would see that this is happening too often and do something about it. If we were to ask for independent test when tested if makes us look guilty right off the bat by putting the thought in the Dr's mind that we think there may be a problem so we must be doing something wrong. It is a lose lose situation and luck of the draw. What can we do to keep this from happening , I really do not have any answers other than talk to your Dr about the fact that false negatives are happening alot and your afraid of this happening to you and educating everyone about the problem. As I said though I am not sure this is such a wise idea either as it may put suspicion on you.We have to walk a very fine line and it is a shame that we do have to but it is a combination of things that cause us to have do so.
The ones who purposely receive the Dr's and sell their meds are a huge problem to us. I have seen this going on too and it makes me so angry, we have such a hard time because of these jerks and I know in Fl they can get 25years min for such and offense. I have told my Dr when I have seen this happening and I assume he did take care of it as he does not want these kind of people in his practice either. You say you wonder if telling the practitioner about this caused you to have these problems, well that could very well be the case. I talk about the ones who abuse Dr's all the time but there are those Dr's who will prescribe to anyone and know they sell or abuse their meds but they do not care because they too are in it for the money. This is despicable and when these Dr's get caught they get a rally of support because it looks like they were convicted for helping genuine pain Pt's and got caught for doing so. Have you seen the video in our health pages about pain management and the problems we face daily? The DEA is doing what they can to stop the abusers and dealers but in the process they hinder us and our Dr's as well. I really hope you can get some help with this, can you go to your PCP and get another test done today to show it either is a mistake or you have a problem with the meds showing up in your system. There are at least thirteen drugs that will cause false negatives too, I will find and post the for you later I have a appointment this morning.
I wish you the best of luck and will try and find some stats.
A while back I posted a topic on Morphine Vs Negative Drug screen. It has some very informative info and also explains why the tests can come out negative. Scroll down a few pages and you'll find it or PM Beargizmo, I sent it to him. Take care
i have had this happen to me on many occasion. taken my medicine not two three hours before test tell the tech show the bottle and blam negative. job interviews, government test dr test always negative and i take percocets a day for chronic pain failed back syndrome, sciatica and periphial neuropathy. in my case i am really high metabolized and have even bought the test from the drug to experiment with. my conclusion if i can feel the medicine working ie little to no pain then it will show on my test if i dont feel it ( 3-4 hours after taken ) and have previously used the restroom its always negative. the drs and new laws governing these types of things have gotten ridiculous, the people who need help cant get it while the seekers and pushers get what they want. its a flawed system but we as a pain suffering just have to deal with it west we can, in my case i binge on tylenol and asprin i nkow i shouldnt but hey my meds are accounted for and they can do what they do. good luck to all
I have been taking Clonazepam for about 8 years now,my doctor did a drug screen and it said that I had NO benzodiazepines in my system? my dose is 0.5mg every morning and up to 3 per day. Now my doctor has dismissed me!! Can anyone please help me with understanding why the benzos might not show up?
opiate test = negative because most prescriptions now are synthetic opioids. Opiate is plant derived...believe me not many pain patients are getting the "good stuff" Drug testing companies are quickly catching up with this subtle yet huge difference.
I have done a lot of research on this and I have not come across any research that substantiates what your claiming. Could you please provide some references:)
Although (our medications) opiates are synthetic they are still opiates and do show up on these test because thats what the test are looking for. I am sure they know the test are looking for the synthetic rather than the plant. There is a big difference and I for one am not sure of them but we have a member here who is a chemist and can provide more information so I will get with him so we can follow up on this.
I was told last year that after 2001,(bush policy) most opiates were manufactured and produced for generic consumption. OPIOIDs are totally synthetic ( man made in a lab chemicals produced to mimic bio-identical chemicals in our bodies). Most meds are NO LONGER plant derived in USA. Altho britain and the usa are very involved in the Afghan poppy cultivation, harvest, and trade. I started researching this stufff because I was forced to have major surgery at a very young age. I had to do hormone replacement and pain mgmt and having never had any health issues,,,did not want synthetic chemicals in my body. That's when a whole health "natural" medicine doctor explained to me the big triangle of insurance, doctors, pharmaceuticals, and FDA<DEA<&AMA. Check with the MFG of your prescriptions,,,,I can pretty much guarantee that unless you are independently wealthy, or are dying, you are getting synthetic chemicals for pain. This was how the difference between opiate, and opioid was explained to me. I would give you my personal reference however, this pain mgmt issue is so sensitive already, I don't like to get into the political/governmental/medical mess of it all or name names. I will say that there is a very famous school in Cambridge MA and a certain Journal that is always available. I could go on and on but I won't,,,,God gave us "seed bearing herbs and plants for food, comfort, and medicine. Our government then exploits, and copies these plants, schedules them, and controls their dispension. Ever research the preservatives and fillers in these meds??? I got over this outrage about 5 yrs into my condition however,,,,It still irritates me that what is pickling everbody's liver is the tylenol, preservatives, and fillers added to our medicines. Humans are the healthiest when they they stick with plant-based foods and meds. When the baby boomer generation fimally retires and ends up with pain and quality of life issues,,,maybe then the government and the FDA, and the DEA, and the AMA will be forced to stop poisoning us with their lab rat clones. ONly until chronic pain patients stand up as a whole and blend their voice will we have a say in our treatments and quality of life. I promise you that if our meds were "clean", the w/d's and tapers would be much, much easier. ps, hormones and patches are the lucky winners of the highest concentration of bovine and equine derived chemicals and glues....pigs and horses....how clean. I also not too long ago saw MYTHBUSTERS do a thing on poppy seed bagels and drug testing/pass fail. Some tests were positive after 10-12 bagels, (equiv-3-4 tbls seeds) and some tests were negative. With the de-criminalization of marijuanna in many states as well, Drug testing manufacturers are redesigning their tests. If there were total ingeredient lists on drugs like there is on foods, patients would be outraged. But with the way things are and the undertreatment of pain epidemic in this country, patients are at the mercy of their doctors and whatever political position they hold, or whoever drug rep they have and the kickbacks they get. It's really, really, scary and sad. OUr government is making boo-coo's of $$$ on the middle eastern poppy trade and treating us like junkies......ouch. sorry, I don't usually go off on stuff like this anymore, I'm pretty much over it and have accepted my fate as a chronic pain-er, I just wish that ALL products, food, clothes, water, toys, meds, could be chemical and toxic - free. Xeno-estrogens in our petroleum based enviornment are disrupting our endocrine systems which for pain patients is likened to pouring gas on a fire. ps, to merlinx: I notice your post was a while back,,,I'm hoping they do not convince you to go on Sub for pain mgmt. as your dose is less than what you are taking now. Sub can be a good tool for taking a break from your regular meds but it really is only being used here in usa as an addiction med. educate yourself as much as possible before making that jump. ps:sandi: I do not believe that because an opioid attaches to opiate pain receptors that that makes it a plant derived natural opiate. Your meds are synthetic with no natural plant derivatives. Man made chemicals can be almost identical to human chemicals in that they mimic the action, therefore they would show up on a test if the test is receptive to that chemical.
There is some truth to what you describe, but I don't believe it quite so simple. First there is no such thing as purely synthetic morphine, though many attempts at it have been made, resulting in many of the synthetic and semi-synthetic opioids we now have (e.g., methadone). Same is true for codeine.Oxycodone, oxymorphone (Opana), hydrocodone (opioid in Vicodin) and other less common ones are semi-synthetic, derived in part from thebaine (a small part of what is in natural opium). The only true synthetics that are common for us with chronic pain are the fentanyl family (Fentanyl, Sufentanil, Alfentanil, etc.) and methadone, which are come from very different chemical processes. The chemistry is not too complicated, if you have any background in it.
As for a difference is testing for them, that's largely not true. Most or all the semisynthetics are broken down into common metabolites (e.g., methadone is converted to hydromorphone by the liver, which is what actually gives pain relief - the inherent delay in this process makes it last longer). Some of them have VERY specific by-products that are easy to pick out, if desired (e.g., heroin is tested for differently and specifically if part of the panel). When a test panel is picked, it clearly says which ones are being tested for, and if a second test is done (for a positive for illicit use screening or negative for compliance testing), usually it is done by chromatograph, which is FAR more sensitive and detailed in what it can detect.
I am not a pharmacist, drug lab expert or any such thing (the only kind of doctor I am is a Ph.D. in engineering), but all this information is easy to find and verify - I have simply learned it in the course of answering my own questions. Considering the large number of sources that say the same thing, I am wary of any contrary information from anyone with an agenda to push, though for all I know they may be correct - simply very hard to prove against the available information.
A choice to use "synthetic" chemicals is a personal one, but IMO a difficult one to actually implement. There is very little you can take for any purpose that doesn't have some degree of synthesis involved, even if it is simply to refine a natural substance in predictable doses.
Your doc should have known about the hormone issues, if they did their homework - it's been well established for quite some time (I can find a few references fairly easily, if there is interest). OTOH, the side effects of opioids are mostly predictable and manageable, and far more so than with many alternative treatments, so they are often the lesser evil on that score.
One last thing I forgot. The term "opioid" refers to anything that has an effect like that of morphine through the opioid receptors in the central nervous system, so it refers to naturals, semi-synthetic and fully synthetic, together.
While there may well be federal pressure to favor the use of fully synthetics to help control illicit production from plant materials (or something like that), even the plant materials are already controlled by the government. They license manufacturers here to grow specific quantities of plant material each year, with very strict oversight, and the manufacturers normally must only draw from those sources. This alone may spur the manufacturers to push more synthetics for general use (through marketing), to free them from the annual quotas on raw material imposed by the governemnt for the other opioids, but that's a far cry from all opioids being synthetic now.
This is literally ASTONISHING what I am hearing from all you guys. I just had the SAME thing happen to me last month with the false negatives! I take oxycontin 30mg er, hydrocodone for breakthrough pain, and hydroclorthyzide and metaprolol for high b/p. I also take clonazapam 1mg, zanaflex and lyrica. Does anyone know who their lab was? Mine came back negative from Labcorp of America. My doctor gave me a sharp talking too, (I have NEVER in the 7 years I've been on this stuff had an issue) and I had to repeat my drug ua yesterday. Its no big deal for me because I don't use anything else to worry about. However, she threatned me with the usual "cutting me off" **** if my test this time doesn't come back showing my meds cuz she thinks now I'm hoarding them and not taking them! I looked her dead in the eye and said "Look, I don't know WHY this is showing up like this, I took my meds in the am like I do every single day, SOMETHING is wrong with the test!" They sent this last sample to the local hospital to do, and not the other lab, because supposedly they had 3 other people come out with the same problem. We who are on pain contracts, who are following the rules, taking our meds, are getting laid open and like poor Sara in this forum, getting discharged from their doctors for no reason. Someone out there must have an answer, or something to help. One good piece of info I did find, was if you are on blood pressure meds. I'm on the two which are diuretics, and apparently they can cause you to eliminate what you take before your test is done. I printed that out because I plan to go in with it to the doctor so they are aware of this. I realize there is a huge drug problem out there, but most of us on pain contracts ARE NOT the problem! If I find out any more info I will post again here. Thanks for your info and help guys...hang in there!
There are thirteen drugs known to cause false negatives in these test. I have posted them before and will find them and re post them. I am aware that a lot of people are having this problem and as you say it could be the labs but there's no way to know for sure. I would ask for a blood serum test.
Thank you so much for your help! I tried going to the link and it said it wasn't available. Sandee do you have the list of drugs causing false negatives? I go today....and am PRAYING my test came back the way they wanted. I have done ALOT of reading over the weekend, and one thing that pops back constantly is first if the screen was not properly handled in the clinic, that can be an issue...and two, that some other drugs can cause false readings. Also, a VERY good forum from http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/535492 talks about a test conducted from the VA hospital. Another link is http://www1.va.gov/hsrd/about/national_meeting/2004/abstracts/2047.htm
Thanks again for your kindness and I will be back here to let everyone know how my results today came out. You all are so knowledgable, and helpful......thanks again!
The reactivity of 13 quinolones (levofloxacin, ofloxacin, pefloxacin, enoxacin, moxifloxacin, gatifloxacin, trovafloxacin, sparfloxacin, lomefloxacin, ciprofloxacin, clinafloxacin, norfloxacin, and nalidixic acid) was tested in 5 commercial opiate screening assays from September 1998 to March 1999. In 6 healthy volunteers, we confirmed the cross-reactivity of levofloxacin or ofloxacin with these opiate screening assays. be positive, therefore some will and have failed these test.
This is mead72,when my drug test came up as a false negative I was in shock and my doctor dismissed myself as a patient. I have been on the same meds for about 8 years now! I have done countless research on this problem,unfortunately to no avail. Until I called a specialist on drug screens and mailed him copies of them. That's when I found out that the lab and my doctor Never tested myself for the specific drug clonazepam they both simply tested myself for benzadiapems which clonazepam is but,when you get tested for any medication the test should indicate the exact name of the medication. CHECK YOUR TEST!!
I think (so many things) but when you enroll in a Pain Management Program you should have rights also. Like the right to know exactly what type of drug test(s) are being utilized and how complex and accurate they analysis the pain medications. It should include failure rates also. It is also my suggestion that every time you are required to take a drug test you have your own test repeated that day by a trusted authority. It seems these clinic and PMP have all the rights and the patients are always the liars. What's wrong with this picture?? I am mad about the injustices CP Suffers are enduring. Isn't the pain injustice enough??? Ok, I'm through with my rant. Tuck
I will rant too Tuck,
We should have the same rights the Dr has but unfortunately we don't. I know there have been so many here that have had lost theirs and are in great pain. We have to do more than rant though. We all need to get together and decide what approach to take on how we can make this a better situation. I know of some advocates that are fighting for our rights, maybe we could see if we can help?
Thank you Sandee. I'm wondering if your post should be a new thread. Hopefully others would see it and we could all make an effort to help in whatever way you can. I remain fighting mad and it hasn't even happening to me.
When I joined this forum in June I did wonder if maybe these ppl that tested negative were not being as honest as they should be with their posts. I now believe that it's the system. And I want to do something to change it. I don't want these failed drug tests to be so uncommon. I don't want the CP Suffers to have to endue any more than what they must.
Another explanation that I haven't seen here among all the comments from people who are being treated for intractable pain is this: after a person has pain for a long time, the stress chemicals in constant high flow rates (insulin, cortisone, adrenaline) can cause MALABSORPTION. This means that your meds, and possibly your food nutrition, are not being absorbed by the body properly. You would not have the medications in your system at the rate you should have. Pain clinics SHOULD KNOW about this effect, especially the VA, however, too frequently this possible tool for diagnosis of a serious metabolic changes due to constant unremitting pain, is misinterpreted as a sign of medication diversion. Advocates for pain patients (spouses, self, friend, attorney, etc) should always request or petition for examination for malabsorption if the patient is put at risk due to unexpectedly low medication serum levels.
I want to welcome you to the Pain Management Forum and let you know that we are glad that you have found us. I need to tell you that their are NO Doctors on this Forum ONLY CP (Chronic Pain) Patients that help each other thru our own pain conditions.
Your post is VERY interesting and I think will help others here.
HOWEVER, this is an OLD thread from 2008. Would you mind Re-Posting this on a NEW thread? I really think the people would LOVE this!!!
Thank you and I'm so VERY happy that you are a member!!....Sherry
PS: IF you will go up to the top of the page and click on the "Post a Question" and then re- post it. :)
I have been going to a PMD for 1.5 years for chronic knee pain, had complete knee replacement done 4 months ago. Here is the problem I take Methadone 5mg 3x a day & Dilaudid 4mg 3x a day. Had blood test done in May,June,&July they all came back negative for Dilaudid, now I was cut off from the Dilaudid.I told the doctor that I take only as precrible and take every day. I heard everything from your selling them,or someone in your house is using them & selling them, I feel terrible that this happening to me. I do not know what to do.
You should start a post of your own as you will get many more responses.
Just hit the green post a new question at the top of the page and then post it.
I am so sorry this has happened to you. There could have been a mistake at the office as in they sent your blood work in as someone else's and vice verso or the lab made a mistake. It is much more accurate to get blood work than the UA screen but due to human mistakes no test is infallible. I had my blood work come back negative for my medications and the Doctor absolutely knew I was taking my medicines. You can have a hair shaft test done as these test will generally show the past 60 to 90 days what you have taken. Ask your Doctor if he/she would accept this and they are available online or you can do it locally.
I will say that your very fortunate that your doctor is continuing with the methadone as many will just drop you from their practice all together and even red flag you. So at least your still getting some form of treatment as of now. Many do not get that.
Post your question as I suggested and you will get more advice:)
I don't understand how the doctors can trust the results of a negative with the way they are running these tests. I went to a methadone maintenance clinic for 11 years. I know exactly the PROPER way to do a serum test.
Day 1: they dose you AT THE CLINIC OR OFFICE lets say 10:00am you take the medication in front of the dr or another qualified employee as a witness.
Day 2: they does you AGAIN at the clinic of office at 10:00am sharp.. And they have been present to witness the intake themselves. Then right after the 2nd dose, they take your blood, send it in.. ta daaaaaa....
Thats the way it's done in order to get a reliable level of how fast you are metabolising the medication. Just randomly drawing some blood when you have no idea when the last dosage was ingested is, not scientifically reliable and in my opinion medically irresponsible. And urine?? I've heard they can get a "strong" or "weak" positive, but theres no way to do a serum test that way.. hence the test is done on the serum of your blood.
If you are a patient, and you want to make sure your result is accurate then you speak up and tell them, if they want you to submit to a serum test, then you will only participate if it's conducted the correct way. How can a doc accuse you of taking or not taking a medication when he's not even conducting the test correctly and witnessing the adminstration of the medication himself.
This is why you don't go to regular joe MD's for serious medication. Why they prescribe methadone for pain anyway is beyond me. Its a terrible pain medicine. I was on it for 11 years, I know.. Your body gets used to it and it has little or no affect on chronic pain, and it blocks the receptors so no other opiate can enter either. Therefore your not only taking a medication that's not helping pain, its blocking any theraputic affects from other medications. Also because of methadone's half life it is one of the hardest drugs to withdraw from. Symptoms can be severe and last literally for months. I don't think anyone should be on methadone unless the alternative is worth what you will have to endure to free your body of methadone dependance. I strongly plead with anyone seeking chronic pain management to seek other outlets for relief. Methadone should not be given for chronic pain, short term in small doses maybe, but even then there are more suitable alternatives.
hey , im notr sure . my doctor put me on seboxin for taking 5 mill vicodens 1 to 2 a day . i stopped for thirty days and was still very sick , so i went to the dr for seboxin ( i assumed it was withdrawl for 30 days off 5 mil vics ) stupid. nevertheless he perscribed seboxing . i stopped the seboxin b/c it made me sick . then 3 days later i had real with drawls.ow i had to go back , spend money i dont have get more seboxin to taper down . im in a lot of pain . i have numerous things wrong with me, i want to take a tylonal 3 to relieve the pain , will a 4 mil seboxin block the effect if i took it 24 hours ago?
this just happened to me ive been on methadone for 3 years and went to my doc and the urine was negative of everything including methadone he was nice enough to give me a 2 week rx and i have to go mon. for another urine test im nervous i get sick with out it and take it everyday! this is so wierd
Exact same thing happen to me and I was furious. 3 drug test all 3 come back negative, Ive been going this dr since they open 9 years ago and for past 2 years all my test came back negative The dr that used to be there now it's just 4 Nurse Practioners. Anyway said it had to be my metablism, When my husband was going samr dr as I was he always drove so I always took my meds but once I started driving myself I want take the meds thats when my drug test started coming up negative so I came to this conclusion my drug screens only shows what I took the same day as my test. One month I was late going to the dr and I ran out of my percocets but in my medicine cabinet I still had 14 tab 10 from where they switched me in middle of month the tabs was 1 year old but i still took 2 on same day as dr app. so 31 days in a roll I took 4 perocet 10/650 each day The 32 nd day I took 2 Lortabs 10/650 my drug test came back postive for lortabs and negative for perocet. But when I took the 2 lortabs that was first thing I told my Dr. They waited till Friday at 4 to tell me this knowing Ive took these for 10 years with no other dr open this late on friday.
Sara393, I had a urine tox Drug Abuse Screen and that test also came back negative! I am so confused and upset about this outcome because I too take my medication as prescribed (3 x day). I am having a blood tox screen and hope that this one will be correct. I think I am in trouble because my doctor of 20 years just retired and this one is new to me so he does not know me.
I am surprised you didn't get help coming down off the medication; it is dangerous to just quit I here. I know how you feel and thought you might understand what doctors have to go through. Everyone should read this! http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_10_4_02_libby.pdf
Does anyone know how a tox test could come back Neg when it should have been positive? This is serious and if you read the link above you will understand just how serious this is!
I would suggest that you go up to the top of this page and click on the green Post a Question button and re-post your question as this is a very old thread from 2007. If you will do this you will get many more answers.
I GOT CUT OFF MY XANAX IMGS ***** SAID THEY WASNT IN MY SYSTEM THEY STRATE LIED OR THE LAB CONTAMANAITED IT .. I HAVE PANIC ATTKS I TAKE MY MEDS DAMN IT THERES SUM RUTHLESS PPL NOW DAY...OYEA AND IM ON DIABILTY FOR PANIC ATTKS i asked them to retest they will find em they refused
I have been in a Suboxone program since may of 2012, In June my Doctor gave me Clonazepam 0.5 mg twice a day, For my anxiety! In July 2012 he upped my dose to 1 mg twice a day, because it wasn't working well for me. In August everything stayed the same & then This month September i went into see him & he acted as if everything was okay, but once i went to get my medication's my dose for my Clonazepam was lower back to 0.5 mg twice a day. I & the pharmacy thought he messed up. The pharmacy told me to double my dose & call Monday to let my doctor know. That in 2 weeks when i run out of my medication he will right out for more, to get me though the month. I did call that next Monday & told them what had happened. The next day they called to tell me that they are keeping me at this dose because it had not been showing up in my drug screen. I told them thats bull because i take it every single day. Then i called to speak w/ my Doctor's nurse to tell her what another person in their office had called & told me. Once i finally got a hold of her after 5 hours of her not taking my phone calls', she then told me yes we are taking you off because it hasn't shown up since you were put on it. I tried to speak w/ her & tell her that i do take it & that is impossible. But she had got rude w/ me & hung up. So after i had gotten off the phone w/ her, i called my doctor's office again & asked to speak w/ someone about getting all my drug screen test since i had been there. The next day i went in & picked it up, the only thing on that paper work showed that i was tested for my suboxone & it showed up. It did not show what i was tested for, what showed up as negative or positive. Just that i was taking my suboxone's...i then asked to speak w/ another nurse who could explain all of the results to me. Once i did speak w/ this nurse she took it into her own hands to go back & talk to my doctor to see if i could still see him for the suboxone program & se another doctor for my anxiety medication. When she got back to me, she told me that my doctor had said that since it has not shown up at all in my drug screen, it was agents the Suboxone program and i was no longer in his program no more. For something i didnt even do! I then even asked for him to refer me to get blood work done that it would show up in that test. He told me no that if i wanted to get that done, i'd have to do it on my own. That they do not refer someone for personal reason's! Which it isn't a personal reason at all! It is to show that i have been taking my medication like i was suppose to & they messed up. So, my question to you would be what could cause someone who take's Suboxone 12mg a day & Clonazepam 1 mg twice a day, to not have the clonazepam to show up in a urine drug screen?? What can interact w/ that medication for it not to show up. I have asked everyone at my doctor's office what & they say me not taking it. BUT I DO TAKE IT, That;s the whole point!!! I don't understand & i dont know why they are doing this to me....if anyone reads this please give me some answer's..Thank ~Martina
I am being terminated from my primary care dr bc in my tox screen my xanax 0.5 mg did not show up at all not a trace. my dr gave me permission years ago to break em in half or a little less than half per dose 3 times per day,or i would be sleeping all the time with whole ones. I have panic attacks and aniexty vey bad. I cannot go without them. I even took my bottle to appt I made to show my dr the xanax in the bottle and broken ones. My pain meds mscontin 100 mg showed up and msir 30 mg no problems and in WNY there is no pain mgmt to go to that will write your meds. on my drugscan paper it says Alpazolam outcome inconsistant and reported valu negative and comment prescribed drug not dectected.My 29 yr old daughter even said" Mom I watch you take your xanax 3 times per day" I have never failed one tox screen till now. I dont know if this has anything to do with it but our engine went and I could not get to my normal small chain independantly owned pharmacy and I had to get a ride to Walgreens.Is there a differnce in the maker? I was not taking any of Walgreens brand for any of my other tox screens and all was fine But no trace at all? From what I read even if you stop taking Xanax it can show up for 30 to 60 days.that isnt the case I need to take mine everyday 3 times a day.. Is there ever a faulty drug test cup? I am at my wits end bc try telling your dr's nurse you take it everyday 3 times a day and falls on deaf ears. most people are worried it will show up, mine should of showed up and didn't,I just recieved my Nexium from astra zeneca and I happened to read the paperwork that came with it and it says Nexium 40 mg can cause false positives in lab tests.Can that e what happened and how would that cause it to happen? I never noticed that before.. All I know my meds control my pain to a tolerable level and my xanax keeps my panic attacks from getting to severe.. Help I need some answers... Thank You
i've been taking lorecet and percocet for about 10 years now for back surgery that was unsucessable i take my medicines daily i was drug screened last month by blood test and it came back negative for both i also take trammadol it came back positive for it. what would have caused my negative screening when i'm 100% positive i took them.
Make sure what your taking is what your taking! Check the pills identification number and letters and see if it is indeed the medication your supposed to be taking. Someone may have switched your medicine with something different, or a mistake has been made altogether at the pharmacy. Also purchase your own urine test kit, and have it ready and unopened at all future appointments for the chance to "prove' your on the correct medications as prescribed.
I have been on PM For over 6 years now. I Take Percocet-kadian everyday.my pm phones me yesterday and tells me that my random drug screen showed I Was taking lortab along with my percocet-kadian..? I Told the NP That I Dont Have a script for lortab..The NP Tells me that The Test Doesnt Lie..? I Am Perplexed How This could Happen..? I Dont Know if This pm is gona Throw me out or what..?This same PM Was writing me xanax a couple of years ago and tested me and said I Wasnt taking the xanax..?I Dont understand this..?I Think this is some kind of conspiracy. These Drs Pick and choose..? I Had Heart By-pass last year and about 2 weeks before I Had a Spinal Cord Stimulator Installed. The heart Dr Told me that I Had A-Fib and Not to use This Device until this A-fib was over. So' I Had an ablation Procedure and this helped the A-Fib..Meanwhile..the company that Makes these Spinal-cord Stimulators sends me a certified letter stating that their device is faulty and causing burns to patients backs where the recharge site is..So; I Consulted with my heart Dr and He Tells me that It was up to me if I Want to have another one installed..I Chose to not get another one and I Told my PM Dr. that I Wanted the old one thats faulty Removed..Now The PM Is telling me that I Am testing Positive for more meds that I Dont even have a script for..? This whole mess I Think is Really Bias..?I Have been told by an attorney that these PM Drs make alot of money off of these Spinal-cord devices..? I Get the feeling that I am being Pushed-out because of this delima..Has anyone elese had this Happen..?
Went to my monthly visit yesterday and for the first time my urine test came up negative for any and all of my meds. HOW COULD THAT BE? I am taking benzos and opiates for a broken pack and discinegratong discs and anxziety and this was the first time with this doctor I ever was tested and nothing showed up. I've been on these meds, for a long time with a different doctor and was tested every month and never had a problem with the results. I'm at a loss I cant understand and don't know what to do he did retest my urine which should show every medicine I'm on in my system but so should've the other one any advice on what I could do to prove to my doctor that his lab is doing something wrong, or to prove in some otherway that I am taking my meds as prescribed? TOTALLY BAFFLED.
I am on pain management and have been found non compliant and cut off , ive been asked to take a blood test of some kind to determine if im metabolizing my meds .This test is going to cost me greatly and dont know if I will positively be prescribed anymore after the test .Should I pay and take it or find another doctor ?
I have had the same problem, but with adderol. I have taken multiple urine tests, blood tests. I take them every day as prescribed! I told them I could come up there once a week and they could count my pills, or whatever. I didn't want them thinking I was selling them and cut me off. They had me take one in front of the doc, then sat there for a couple hours, took another test, and it came back negative!! A friend of mine who is a foreman on a construction job had some company drug tests in his work truck because he is required to do random on site drug testing periodically. He couldn't believe what was going on with me and gave me one of his tests just to see. It was a drug test that you hold in your mouth for 2 minutes. The results were positive! I couldn't believe this cheapo test could detect something a blood test wouldn't. I took an unopened one to my doc and he watched me take it and saw that it was positive. He was satisfied with the result. I don't know if this helps, but you could always ask for a saliva test, or get one of those home tests and see if it shows. Its crazy to think there are folks out here wishing for a positive drug test! so crazy. If I was on probation and wanted it to be false, id probly show positive for 1 pill from a week ago after drinking gallons of water. Murphy's law I guess. Wouldn't it be a shame to get caught trying to sneak in dirty urine....haha Good luck
I am going through the same thong right now! I a RN as well and it truly pissed me off when they suggested I might sell or give away my meds, really! I can walk or moved in the moring without my medication. I hurt so back I have to go to the ED and its just temporary which doesn't help. I dont know what to do they wont even let me see my doctor face to face anymore and its the only one to see with my insurance. Im truly at a loss so I understand your pain.
Just read your post....I'm going through the same song and dance from my physicians office as others have noted above. I have been accused of not taking my pain meds from the pain management group I've been going to for 10 years. They claim 3 test have come back neg for the narcotics in m system. I swear on everything holy that I take them as prescribed. I was wondering, did you get the blood work done to see if your body is metabolizing the drugs? If so, what was the outcome?
Just read your post....I'm going through the same song and dance from my physicians office as others have noted above. I have been accused of not taking my pain meds from the pain management group I've been going to for 10 years. They claim 3 test have come back neg for the narcotics in my system. Just wondering the outcome of your situation....
I just wanted to let you guys know that I had a gastric bypass in 2003 and if I have not taken a medication pretty much the same day I take a urine test, it wont show up so I have been told by my primary doctor to have the take a blood test or use the patches on me. I hope this helps, not sure if any of you have had a gastric bypass, but this could be one reason. :)
I'm dealing w/the same issue right now. I've been on opiate meds for yrs now for sickle cell. Never really had a problem w/getting my meds until 03/27/2014 (thursday). My VA doctor sent me to have a urine/drug test, and to my surprise it somehow came bake negative. I told the nurse that y wife sees me take my percocet (and other meds) everyday! My VA doctor said that she didn't feel comfortable prescribing my oxycodone 5mg/325mg (generic percocet) anymore because of the results of my test. My wife recommended to the nurse/doctor that they do a blood test instead of a urine test. And so, I did a blood test on 03/28/2014 (friday), and i'll get the results today/monday (03/31/2014). I hate being faslely accused too, and so, I understand how each of you feel. We all need to discuss this matter w/our congresssional leaders (congressmen/women & senators).
I have been taking pain meds since 1988, was in a car accident and crushed both feet. Been on morphine patches, Percocet, u name it. In 2001 I had a morphine pump installed, my pain was managed very well only took percocets as needed for break through pain. Last year my pump failed and need replaced then I got an infection they had to remove the pump. I was told to wait a year and I could have it back in the mean time they gave me oral morphine and diladid. I take them around the clock, I was asked to take a drug test for the first time in over 20 year. Of course I said I had nothing to hide I was taking my meds, well of course it came back negative took another one same thing. Now my dr won't give me back my pump that helped me out very good. Dr said I wasn't taking my meds so he wasn't putting a new pump in me, why would I ask for the pump if I was selling my meds? When they put the new pump in me and turned it on it would kill me if I wasn't taking the meds. Why would I won't to kill myself? Going through the withdrawals is going to make someone want to kill them self. You have people like us that are glad to take the test to show we have nothing to hide and then there are those in the clinics that him and haul sneak around and have other people take the test for them. What do we do???
Well 250 mg of Oxycontin is quite a bit, I mean that would have to be 80 mg 3x daily or 60 mgs 4x daily which both only come out to 240 mg. Maybe you rounded up but my point is you would have to have a certain amount in your urine if you take them say every 8 hours or every 6 hours depending on what strength you take. I guess it would have to be consistent levels in your urine if taking as prescribed. I also have been on pain management for over 3 years in which I take Oxycontin and Norco that totals 120 mgs a day of narcotics.
I don't get why I see some reviews on here saying they don't take them when they have to drive, because If taken daily for a extended period then usually they shouldn't effect your ability to drive, as you are used to them and the euphoria they may have given in the beginning would reside over time. I've never felt drugged up where I couldn't drive, they help with pain and that's it.
I know everyone is different but my point of this long reply is the "DR" is maybe thinking the same thing. He may think you are taking half of what you are prescribed if you simply miss a dose or won't take anything when you have to drive, which he probably thinks is more than just when you go to see him. Just an outside neutral view of course.
Erroneously, fired by doctor Louis Palermo Pain manager in Clearwater Fl.He is retiring and is now pt. dumping. Uses Ameritox Labs that destroys life. I was on Fentanyl patch 75mcg every 72 hours and oxycodone 15mg, hard enough to get filled, needless to say my uds showed up neg. for any meds so his office manager tells me. I got the results, the doc office refused to write or ask me what meds I have been taking besides rx, ie; OTC meds and most important 3 months in a row I complained of a drastic wght. loss, from 147 down to 97lbs. last check. The only thing Dr. Palermo had to say was that it looks good, maybe it will help your back pain. Geeze, Ty for following your hippocratic oath, and splitting your personality. Obviously, I called the top toxicologist at Ameritox, before I found out what they claimed their drug monitoring was literally false admitted in lawsuit. The tox. is a female and she was very nice, I explained everything in detail and she told me she could re test for free now that she had my info, she would have to call the doctor for his approval and I was to return her call on Fri. at that time if Dr. Palermo would approve this we would discuss my meds and disease state and she would get it straightened out, I told her Dr. Palermo will not reply, I have tried everything to get this man to face me, return a call, anything? She said sounds like u need a new doctor! Really, his last day is June 20th of this year. I left off w/I wld call her back as we discussed. After, painfully sitting for hours, I found so much negative press, lawsuits,kickbacks to doctors and worse yet dozens and dozens of patients with the same complaints as mine. I asked my doctor the second they handed me a list of doctors that was their idea of a seamless transition, I started panic. I have lived here my whole life, I know some of the docs on the list that the pharmacy will not fill prescriptions for the others I know won't rx what I had. I have been burned bad and my name is now soiled b/c Dr. Palermo does not write down any new complaints unless it is a money maker, ie; ESI's,pain pumps blah blah. I was fired over the phone May 4, 2015, I called b/c the pharmacy only had 5 of the 10 patches I was prescribed, I told the doctor it happens all the time I have had to go w/o patch several times due to pharm game playing.
I was told by mylan patch manuf. you have to titrate down or I could die of a critical underdose especially if I run out of oxycodone, let me tell you, all I want is some pain relief and the right to the 4-6 hours a day where I could function, now I have no hours a day on my feet my pain is awful and panic along with rapid withdrawal is causing a major malfunction in my life. Any help w/a good honest pm and an attorney, I have the truth and I am sure many of his patients, the ones he hasn't dumped will run into the same problems. They are even denying me of all my records! It is not about $ on my side it is all about $ for the doc and lab. Jody Lewonas
still kicking dug through drawers and found a few patches stuck in the box. they have now run out as well as b.t. meds. If I make it, will do, having severe chest pain, dehydration, massive weight loss, pain on top of pain, calling 911, going to hospital, I did start a complaint DOH, but too weak to fill all the way out, taking records to hospital in case I am stable enough to finish, they will help, if you can prove it and I can. post after stabilized. Sorry Jodygirl
now i'm worried. i was researching a new PM doc online when i came across this site. my current PM doc crossed an emotional boundary with me at my last visit. usually, i see his physician's assistant, but was shuttled over to the Dr. last week. he wants to wean me off the pain meds. he triggered some sort of trauma with me, and i don't want to go back. but, the new doc i've been referred by my psychiatrist was reported to have cut someone off because of a urine test. i'm concerned about switching docs. i'm not a drug seeker. have been taking all meds just as prescribed for years. at one point i had a "dirty" test with some med i'd never heard of before. the PA said it was a pain med, but i definitely did not take it. they didn't give me hard time as it was the first time there was a so-called problem. but, after reading all this, i'm concerned about switching docs. what to do? what to do?
i really feel for all of you. it's outrageous. even though i know i should take care of myself emotionally by leaving my current PM doc, i'm afraid to switch docs. don't want to be labeled as "doctor shopping", "seeker", whatever. they are in complete control over our records, our future. it's crazy.
so, my question is about "second opinions". what's the deal with looking for advice from another doc? how is this viewed?
I started on pain management just a few months ago and I have had negative test results every time I have been to the doctor. He doesn't believe me when I say that I am taking the meds. I have researched the medicine and there are tons of complaints about it. It's the new Watson 853 white hydrocodone 10/325. It doesn't work. It seems like a 5 mg hydro. Last time I went I took two about 2 hours before I went to the doctor. I don't get it.
I have SEVERAL health problems and I take a lot of meds: Citalopram, Gabapentin, Zopran, Phenergran, Bentyl, Amitriptiline, Trazadone, Dilantin, Wellbutrin, Topomax, Flonase,Protonix, Lipitor, and Coumadin
If you know that any of these meds are interfering, please advise. Thank you for your help.
I have recurring Pulmonary Embolisms, Lupus, Migraines, Neuropathy, Spinal Arthritis, and Celiacs
I went to the doctor today and to my surprise I failed a urine test for methadone I can't even take it I will throw up I probably will loose him as a Dr I have been with him for 5years now and I have to wait and see if he'll give me my pain meds wow that is messed up yet he's never seen anything about the real issues I'm having trouble with.. Really...
Hi tnana24 :)
We're very happy that u found our Pain Management Forum! However, this post is over 8 yrs old. If u would go to the top of the page & click on the green "Post a Question" and restate your post then u will get more of a response 2 your question. I look forward 2 seeing your new post. :)
Physicians have to be careful or they can lose their license or ability to prescribe controlled substances. It doesn't necessarily mean they are picking on you, but a physician does not want to get on the wrong side of the DEA. After all, it is how they make their living, and you can not look at it from just your standpoint.
This is a very old thread. Are you addressing your comment to a specific person. The originator of this thread and many of the initial posters are no longer active.
We all realize the issues that physicians face with the DEA breathing down their necks and monitoring their opiate prescriptions. That said many are overly cautions and under-treat chronic pain patients.
If qualified physicians practice due diligence - including monitoring and documenting their patients conditions and prescriptions - the DEA has no grounds for charging medical practitioners with infractions. It's when practitioners get sloppy that they have reason for concern.
It's much easier for a physician to not RX opiates or under-treat the true chronic pain patients. That's a sad fact.
What kinds of lawsuits were filed and what kind of an attorney would you consult for this kind of situation? I am in the same situation, I tested clean and they accused me of using some one elses urine. I am not near on the dosages as some of the other people but do take my medicine as prescribed. I had 5 surgeries in 3 days for blood clots and a renal stent and was sent to pain management clinic by the surgeon, no problem for 16 months now this all at once. I don't know what kind of lawyer to get. Office manager has lied to me more than once.There has to be something to hide or she would not have had to lie. The Dr. has made himself disappear completely and has not or will not approach me about this.
I have stage 3 kidney disease and I also have to take fluid pills (lasix) which washes my body of potassium magnesium and minerals and I think this may have something to do with it and I have been told that your liver can have a bearing on this because of the way your body metabolizes medication. I also read on here that someone was going to take a lie detector test and would like to know what the out come was and if it was acceptable by the Dr. I am in North Carolina and am dealing with Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center in Winston-Salem and their Pain Medicine Clinic.
I almost missed your post. This thread is very old, 2008 I believe. I encourage you to begin a new thread - it will get more visibility and responses.
JodyLew has disappeared too. I've reached out to her several times with no response. If you want to chat just with her try leaving a note on her Profile Page. If she has selected to be notified when she gets a note or message she may respond.
A few weeks back I read a post from someone that had retained legal counsel for a similar situation with a nasty PMP. That "post" is buried in an old thread similar to this one. It will be difficult to locate. I can go back through my posts and see if I can locate it. If you request me to do so.
What type of attorney should you retain? I would begin with a medical malpractice attorney. If that's that's the wrong specialty the attorney should point you in the right direction.
I encourage you to begin a new thread. Click on the "Post a Question" bar on the right hand upper portion of the beginning of this thread. Select an appropriate title - members and possibly prospective members searching for the same information - or trying to help - may find you. It's the best way to find the information you are seeking.
I'll comment further on your new thread. I'm sorry this has happened to you. It's an all too familiar complaint heard here. My heart goes out to you.
It looks as though you are having a hard time posting your own thread. If you go to the main page of this community, at the top of the page, you should see a green "Post Question" button. Click on that, and you can fill in the appropriate sections, and then click the green "Post Question" button at the bottom.
I was taking 7.5 hydrocodone 3 x per day and tested negative. My Dr said is because with such a low dose I'm testing below the threshold to produce a positive result He uupped it to hydrocodone 10 4x a day now I'm testing fine. Goodluck
I just tested negative after 16 years on oxycodone for severe back pain and other issues. I, like others, was not nervous because I take all my meds religiously - 24/7/365. I was shocked. I have messaged my Dr. and asked for an outside lab to do a retest. From my research, there are a large number of factors that can cause a false negative as well as a false positive. I sent my Dr. a link to the Mayo Clinic regarding this issue. I also sent another link along with a portion of the article. I am not going down without a fight. Without I will not be able to get out of bed let alone do anything else. As is, I live with Chronic pain every day, I have just learned to deal. I understand a Dr. being diligent, but it is getting to be a real issue for those of us who rely on the medication to have any kind of life. I just started on Gabapentin for neuropathy and I am currently reading an article that states taking the 2 together can cause a much lower reading for the Oxy. It is rare, but can happen. Given my off the wall weird reactions to medications, I will be surprised if that is not the problem. In addition to Chronic pain, I also have clinical depression, severe anxiety, and Bi-Polar disorder - (I hit the trifecta). All of the aforementioned can cause pain to be acerbated. Thankfully, I had a friend here when I got the news who was able to talk me down from a full blown anxiety attack which causes the nerve endings in my hands, feet and mouth to form blisters - yeah, fun. I have messaged my Dr. and sent her links to the Mayo Clinic and several other sights regarding the issue. We have a great relationship so I am hopeful she will agree to the retest and that they will get it right this time. Actually, they have to do a retest if you request one. We have to become our own health care advocates or this will just keep happening. I don't take this stuff for fun, I take it so I can function. Not everyone is a drug seeking addict; Drs. need to learn to work with their patients and keep up on current issues with the drugs they prescribe. False negatives are becoming epidemic and something needs to be done to help those caught in the loop. There is only one test that is reliable, but due to cost it is rarely run - it is a catch 22; damned if we do and damned if we don't. Guess I will just have to wait and see what my Dr. says. In the interim, I guess I will arrange for a wheelchair, just in case. I wish the best to all of you...and me.
Are they saying your opiate level was not appropriate ? Or are they saying you were dirty ? Ask for a blood test and do it quick , time is of the essence. Otherwise I think you are out of luck. They don't play anymore. They can't lose their license by prescribing to folks that are not compliant. I am sure if this is a PM doc they have all the testing and lab setup either in house or local. There are just so many people who are full of it. They make it hard. You really should not go in to this lie detector business with them. It makes you look bad, and they don't care. Those test can be BS'ed through too. Good luck, you have a lot to lose.
Nothing can cause it. Your levels are not what they should be in your urine straight up. Get a blood test, time is of the essence. He will not risk his license for these stories. It just can't happen. You may have some unknown metabolism problem, but it does not look good. They get this story several times daily. Good luck.
After much research, there seem to be 3 reasons for false negatives. I drink approx. 100 0z. of water per day to stop massive body spasms. The amount of water I drink could be the reason for the false-negative. I also take Gabapentin which requires a specific test to register the Percocet. Other meds taken can also mess with the outcome of the test. If they only do a dip test, it results in a false negative more often than not. I have sent my Dr. my research from the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic and several other highly recognized Medical centers to no avail. My next step is to make an appt. to see the head of the clinic. I have taken my meds religiously - if I don't I cannot function. Also, given the length of time, I have been on the medication and the amount I take in all likelihood I will wind up in the hospital and possibly die - especially since I have had a heart attack. I have tried cutting back to no avail. I see no reason to be in pain until I run out since i am going to go through hell anyway. Personally, I quit, I just can't do this anymore. My Dr. will con't to see me for all other issues, but will just no longer prescribe my pain meds. Might as well discontinue them all - I am just so done.
I have had multiple GI surgical procedures that has left me with little surface area for drug absorption. This is especially true for extended release medications such as MS Contin which I am on. I always ask for a blood test as they are a little more exact than urine tests
I am taking a low dose of Percocet 5-325 3x's a day, for chronic back and neck pain from a MVA. The problem is that even though I take it the way I should, I have had 2 negative drug screens. What can cause this. Please help.
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