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The Thomas Recipe: Any feedback/success for quitting Opiates?
Hi everyone,
Been on 10-15 Norco 10's a day for the past 3 years following a spine fusion after being a soccer player for some years. Still need another fusion and have neck, hip, and bone spurs and bulging discs, but tired of being addicted, ashamed, controlled, and having this monkey on my back. Want to see if I can do it on my own. Actually I know I can. Curious if anyone on here *circa 2014* has used this recipe. Would love to hear. I'm on 26 hours w/o pills and it plain
*****. Here's the recipe to stir the memory:
THE THOMAS RECIPE
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
Thanks everyone.
Been on 10-15 Norco 10's a day for the past 3 years following a spine fusion after being a soccer player for some years. Still need another fusion and have neck, hip, and bone spurs and bulging discs, but tired of being addicted, ashamed, controlled, and having this monkey on my back. Want to see if I can do it on my own. Actually I know I can. Curious if anyone on here *circa 2014* has used this recipe. Would love to hear. I'm on 26 hours w/o pills and it plain
*****. Here's the recipe to stir the memory:
THE THOMAS RECIPE
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
Thanks everyone.
Regarding weight and appetite, don't give it a second thought -- your body is right in the middle of "Oh wow, I'm pill-free," and is "figuring things out."
Here's an analogy. You know how they always say the "middle ground" is a good thing -- you know, "find the middle ground," or the "middle path," etc... well, the only way to find the "middle" is to swing to both sides!
Like a pendulum. Swings to the left... then swings to the right... then it finds its middle.
So your body is 'testing' one end of the pendulum swing.
Let it "do it's thing," and you'll find your body is pretty smart! And it will guide you to what it needs!
By the way, your body has a LOT of weight to spare. Look at people in India who weigh 80 -90 pounds, work all day, SMILE all day, happiest people on the planet. Just make sure the food you DO eat is the highest quality you can afford. The food pyramid and all that stuff. Quality over quantity!
Peace!
Here's an analogy. You know how they always say the "middle ground" is a good thing -- you know, "find the middle ground," or the "middle path," etc... well, the only way to find the "middle" is to swing to both sides!
Like a pendulum. Swings to the left... then swings to the right... then it finds its middle.
So your body is 'testing' one end of the pendulum swing.
Let it "do it's thing," and you'll find your body is pretty smart! And it will guide you to what it needs!
By the way, your body has a LOT of weight to spare. Look at people in India who weigh 80 -90 pounds, work all day, SMILE all day, happiest people on the planet. Just make sure the food you DO eat is the highest quality you can afford. The food pyramid and all that stuff. Quality over quantity!
Peace!
For my information, I printed the Thomas recipe because I know I am going to have to go through this with morphine. I have gone through morphine withdrawals before but made it. At that time I was only taking 10mg but had to up it to 30mg. I am scheduled for a procedure that is supposed to take my pain issues down but I will not know fully if I am on the morphine so I am ready for the withdrawals. I know this is going to be rough but I am ready. I will contact my doctor but I may be under the care of a new doctor by this time so depending on which doctor will help me. My family doctor prescribe morphine but since I am moving, I will be under the care of a new doctor.
I printed out the recipe to remind me of what to do. I know my thinking will be clouded so I am prepared but still need to advise my doctor when I am done with this procedure.
I'm ready and it better work (the procedure!)
I printed out the recipe to remind me of what to do. I know my thinking will be clouded so I am prepared but still need to advise my doctor when I am done with this procedure.
I'm ready and it better work (the procedure!)
Thanks for all the good juju. On day 12. Received some pretty bad news the past 2 days (dad has cancer/big stuff like that) and I have to say when those types of things go down, that's when's it's easy to say screw it. But I didn't and every time I had pain (which of course I do) I am trying to "retrain" my brain to do positive things for my back instead (think ice, a walk, Advil - if need be, etc).
Sleep still stinks- have to take major sleeping pills (but then, I have always had to, just never been a sleeper, even when a minor I didn't sleep) and still have occasional runs and just not all 'there'. Was getting crazy headaches each day and found out that chronic migraine sufferers can get major headaches when taking L-Tyrosine. As soon as I stopped taking it, they stopped. Kinda bummed because it seemed like it has so many useful purposes (like energy, which I lack) but the headaches don't make it worth it. Still, glad to be pill free and went back to PT to get core strengthened again. Spending lots of time in the sauna and doing water therapy. The bad news is that I am just never hungry and almost losing too much weight (I don't have a lot to spare). Do anyone know if and when the appetite will increase once the energy, and small depression feelings return?
Sleep still stinks- have to take major sleeping pills (but then, I have always had to, just never been a sleeper, even when a minor I didn't sleep) and still have occasional runs and just not all 'there'. Was getting crazy headaches each day and found out that chronic migraine sufferers can get major headaches when taking L-Tyrosine. As soon as I stopped taking it, they stopped. Kinda bummed because it seemed like it has so many useful purposes (like energy, which I lack) but the headaches don't make it worth it. Still, glad to be pill free and went back to PT to get core strengthened again. Spending lots of time in the sauna and doing water therapy. The bad news is that I am just never hungry and almost losing too much weight (I don't have a lot to spare). Do anyone know if and when the appetite will increase once the energy, and small depression feelings return?
oops, it's spelled "endorphins." I'm so excited for you I didn't spell-check my post :-)
Nice work! And it IS work! And you made it! Be prepared to feel REALLY REALLY good in about 2 days. See, your body (this past week) has been going "ouch ouch ouch" and has already started creating minute quantities of brain chemicals (actual endorphines -- many thousands of times stronger than morphine!) and as soon as every last bit of opiate junk has been purged from your system (heh heh purging -- you know what I mean), those endorphines are going to "hit" you and you will be amazed at how good your own body feels! I'm going to take a wild guess that your back won't bother you or give you trouble for a long long time, you will feel so good. Congratulations, and please post back, I love stories like your's!
Good for you and keep it up. Actually, the data is reversed -- opioid abusers have a 70% recidivism rate.
But you weren't an abuser, so your chances are very good that you'll stay off, as long as your pain syndrome is under control.
Don't ever forget there are many modalities for treating pain, so continue with your education about your condition and treatment options.
Best wishes.
But you weren't an abuser, so your chances are very good that you'll stay off, as long as your pain syndrome is under control.
Don't ever forget there are many modalities for treating pain, so continue with your education about your condition and treatment options.
Best wishes.
Thanks everyone. On day 5 now and it IS getting better. You are right, day two was the worst when I was expecting day 3 and 4 to be. Major headaches, (not even imitrex worked for my usual migraines) so I wore sunglasses in the house and covered my head with a black pillow during the worst parts. No RLS or much nasal drip which I expected gobs of, but I did have the runs and trying to keep down the vitamins and amino acids was a bear. My heating pad saved my life. The Valium really did help with sleep - I think I slept 14 hours in 5 days which is more than I expected. The rest of the time I think I took one shower and ran into walls the rest of the time trying to function. The idea of food made me sick, but I drank tons of coconut water, Gatorade, and forced some soup and cracker one night. Lollipops worked if I had any cravings. Went on 2 walks ( very hard) but quitting was not an option. I am stronger than these stupid pills and had a life before them. I won't be a zombie much longer. It honestly went faster than I thought it would. My husband did some research and found that 70% of people who quit opiates stay clean. I plan on being that 30%. Thanks for listening.
Realistically, a person in the throws of withdrawal probably isn't even aware their nose is dripping -- the antihistimine would be more for the spouse LOL
Antihistamine is indicated only for control of nasal drip -- the need for this diminishes after a few days.
No, I wouldn't take antihistimines. Almost every post I've read, people that took antihistimines during 'detox' wished they did not take any.
Do you want the honest truth? I'll tell you (it's good news, so make sure you're sitting down): You are ALMOST done with the hell that you're going through! That "2nd day" is about the worst you're going to feel -- and you are well enough to actually boot up a computer and compose a post!
So, hang in there -- OMG you will be "out of the woods" before you know it.
I'll say a couple things, though.... because I am NOT a "medical professional," it's important that I say that you need to do this under medical supervision. Almost ALL detox places in your area will welcome you with open arms (they are REALLY COOL people, trust me! I kid you not!), and time will fly while you are there (and time that flies means less time suffering!). So, call up somewhere and get into a detox!
If you decide to do it "all by yourself," well, as I said, You are ALMOST THERE! I wouldn't even mess with the Thomas stuff -- the only benefit might be keeping your mind occupied, e.g. "Okay I gotta pick up this laxative...um.... isle 7.... okay now what was that other thing.... darn it the store doesn't have it .... what was the name of that stuff, etc., etc" But, I'll tell you now, whether you take a Tyrosine pill or not is not going to make or break you -- you are ALMOST outta the woods, the trick is "hanging in there" for just another day or two.
Call a detox, or call NA, you'll be amazed at how helpful people will be, and believe me, that will make time pass, and that is what you need!
Do you want the honest truth? I'll tell you (it's good news, so make sure you're sitting down): You are ALMOST done with the hell that you're going through! That "2nd day" is about the worst you're going to feel -- and you are well enough to actually boot up a computer and compose a post!
So, hang in there -- OMG you will be "out of the woods" before you know it.
I'll say a couple things, though.... because I am NOT a "medical professional," it's important that I say that you need to do this under medical supervision. Almost ALL detox places in your area will welcome you with open arms (they are REALLY COOL people, trust me! I kid you not!), and time will fly while you are there (and time that flies means less time suffering!). So, call up somewhere and get into a detox!
If you decide to do it "all by yourself," well, as I said, You are ALMOST THERE! I wouldn't even mess with the Thomas stuff -- the only benefit might be keeping your mind occupied, e.g. "Okay I gotta pick up this laxative...um.... isle 7.... okay now what was that other thing.... darn it the store doesn't have it .... what was the name of that stuff, etc., etc" But, I'll tell you now, whether you take a Tyrosine pill or not is not going to make or break you -- you are ALMOST outta the woods, the trick is "hanging in there" for just another day or two.
Call a detox, or call NA, you'll be amazed at how helpful people will be, and believe me, that will make time pass, and that is what you need!
Your best bet is to wean slowly over a period of months.
Benzos can help, and you want to control symptoms with things like Imodium and Pepto Bismal. You'll need an antihistamine for a few days, and sometimes a small dose of clonidine for a few weeks can also help.
There are locations for so-called medically supervised detox. New Vision is one such company that offers this service.
Incidentally, you're killing your liver with all that acetaminophen. You should have an SGOT/SGPT blood test when you next see your doctor.
Benzos can help, and you want to control symptoms with things like Imodium and Pepto Bismal. You'll need an antihistamine for a few days, and sometimes a small dose of clonidine for a few weeks can also help.
There are locations for so-called medically supervised detox. New Vision is one such company that offers this service.
Incidentally, you're killing your liver with all that acetaminophen. You should have an SGOT/SGPT blood test when you next see your doctor.
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