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Avatar universal

Withholding meds

I've looked all over the Internet and cannot find a straight answer to this question. My mother has been on the same Rxs for almost 20 years, and has always had the same doctor. She has medicaid. She has chronic pain, from lupus and fibromyalgia. In the past she has been able to refill some of her 30 day scripts at only 28 days. I know some pharmacies won't fill until the 30 days, however it usually is not an issue as long as medicaid approves. This month the pharmacy told her that the laws have changed and that since she has filled early in the past, they now are documenting and back dating all the times she's filled early and said that she should have a stock pile of all of those days. So even if its been 30 days since last month's (30 day) script is up for refill at the 30 days, she was told that now it can't be filled because they have back dated all previous early fills and they have added up all these days and tacked it on as if she was trying to fill at 2 weeks early. Basically that she had to wait however many days that added up to. I'm not sure quite how to word this so to clarify what I'm asking here's an example : She had filled her Rx at 28 days instead of 30 for the past 6 months. They have added up that she should have 12 days of medication on hand due to the early refill. So even though it has been 30 days, on a 30 day Rx, she can't fill it for another 12 days. so that would be a 42 day wait to fill a 30 day Rx. Obviously with chronic pain, 12 days without meds could cause severe problems. Is this true? And is this legal?
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Avatar universal
I went today got my medication at 28 days I asked if it was still okay to fill at 28 days she said of course you should never allow yourself left will one pain pill what happens if you have emergency you can't get here the day you need to fill that has happened a few times for me this is a private owed pharmacy I'm still upset about this and this women is in her 60 I hope you got this figured out for your mom
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Like you, I was dumbfounded when I was asked that question. I wasn't sure what to do or say because this was a large pharmacy with several people around. I wasn't even asked to come off to the side so she could ask me. That's just not right.
What if someone was there for an STD medication and was asked, which STD is this antibiotic or other medication going to be used for? That's not allowed, and it shouldn't be, but they feel that they can can ask us chronic pain patients why and what our medications are being used for.
I'm sorry I got off of the original subject. It just seems that we chronic pain patients have to go through so much. Like Cory said, she didn't ask for this. None of us have and there's no reason we should not be treated with the same respect as any other patient.
I don't think any pharmacist should be telling a patient they will have to go up and up on the medications. This is not always true. Many people have been able to stay at the same dose for years.
I sure will Tuck. I look for petitions to sign. It's really hard to find them but I've been lucky enough to find a few with Philnoir's help.
Helpful - 0
547368 tn?1440541785
I'm sorry for your pain. I DO get it. I'm there too as so many of our members are. You sound as angry with the current climate as I.

You're so right. We are treated like scum, like second class citizens and as we should be ashamed of ourselves. Like you and many others I have tried everything that was appropriate to treat my pain.

I have several pain producing issues. I've been told by two physicians my time is limited - but by the Grace of God I'm still here. Given those 2 written prognosis you'd think I wouldn't have an issue obtaining good pain management. Hah! One PMP actually said and documented that because I wasn't "dead yet" he saw no reason to treat me with opiates. He reduced my meds by 65%, all at once. (I wasn't on high doses) Shame on me for not dying while I was his patient or in a timely manner. (Yes I fired him.)

So if one has great difficulty obtaining adequate pain management (PM) with my diagnosis - who can? Sad state of affairs. Yes, I agree. Walk a mile is someone's shoes before you even consider judging!

I disagree with your pharmacist. I am on less opiates than I was when I first began in PM and far less than 18 months ago. Not everyone increases or wants to increase their medications. I choose to stay where I am.

I hope the DEA doesn't catch up with your small pharmacy. Be cautious my friend in pain. I'm afraid JCwashere's mom is not the exception - she becoming the rule.
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Avatar universal
I also have been asked why I'm taking my pain meds by a pharmacist and also been told that if I stay on them I will go up and up in my dose I should  get off them by a pharmacist my reply was I didn't know you are also a doctor do you have two jobs if so where do you practice I was floored that she asked me these questions never judge someone until you walk a mile In There shoes
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Avatar universal
I now goto a small pharmacy have no problem filling at 28 days there are days my pain is uncontrollable yes I take a extra pain pill I work fulltime not by choice I was denied ssdi even though two physical test I had to do showed I'm limited on what I can do I'm a mom and wife I can't lay around and let my family down so I depend on my meds to give me a quality of life I have done pt and injections and tried every non opiate med there is with no relief I hate being depended on pain meds but I always want to live and be a part of civilization this just makes me so bad I didn't ask to have chronic pain we shouldn't be treated like scums of the earth I pay taxes I pay over 500 month for health insurance with no help from the state we almost lost our home due to me not working due to pain so I have no choice but to work okay I done sorry for venting
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547368 tn?1440541785
Keep signing those petitions, I do also. All of us should be writing our state and federal law makers/representatives. I'm not certain what it will take to see this swing back, at least to a tolerable degree. But again, don't get me started. The situation makes my blood boil.

I don't think a pharmacist has the right to ask you why you are being prescribed opiates, especially in an open air pharmacy setting for everyone to hear confidential information. Have they forgotten HIPPA?? Maybe that  doesn't count anymore in these situations! That said I have been asked the same by a pharmacist, in a new state. I was so dumbfounded I answered (in part). I should have responded, "Why do you ask?"  

I too hope this lady can get this straightened out. It's a sad state of affairs!

My Best,
~Tuck
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I meant to say, 30 to 31 days in my post.
I do understand that all pharmacies are being watched. I've seen several people here that go to the smaller pharmacies, myself included, and have a much better experience.
You're right, there is very little privacy for chronic pain patients. One pharmacy I went to asked why I was getting my prescription. I think this should between my Dr and my self.
I'm complaining and I know that because things have changed so drastically for pain patients. I do sign petitions when I'm lucky enough to find them. I'm not sure if it helps but it sure doesn't hurt to do this.
Let's hope this woman can get everything figured out so she can get her medication.
Helpful - 0
547368 tn?1440541785
Your right Remar, as I previously stated this poor lady needs to consult her physician. Asap. She will by all accounts experience withdrawal symptoms which we know can be very nasty!

Small pharmacies may be more compassionate and understanding but sadly they too come under the scrutiny of the DEA. They may not have a large chain breathing down their necks but they would face the same consequences a larger or chain pharmacy would face. The DEA is an equal opportunity enforcer - good or bad!

As you know most, if not all states at this point have a state wide opiate reporting and monitoring system. When an opiate RX is filled it is logged into a state wide data-base. Medical providers, pharmacies and the DEA can and usually do access this data-base. In some states it's unlawful to not consult this data-base before prescribing or filling an opiate RX. It's my understanding that even law enforcement has access.

There is little if any privacy for Chronic Pain patients requiring opiates. Big Brother is watching all of us!  It's a sad state of affairs!

Your Friend in Pain,
~Tuck
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Avatar universal
It sounds like the pharmacy is obviously doing this because of the new laws. I agree that they should be held accountable and I also agree that the posters mother should find a small home town pharmacy to deal with. They seem to be more caring and understanding.
I won't deal with Walmart because every time I have there's been a problem. I deal with a smaller pharmacy and never have any problems
I'm trying to do the math in my head but if a patient filled their prescription a couple of days early sometimes wouldn't this kind of equal things out? What about months that we have 30 days or less?
I'm also wondering what the Dr can do to help? The posters mother has got to see the Dr because she could and most likely will have withdrawal and no Dr should let their patients go through this.
This is another very sad situation and I hope she will be able to get her medication and not have to wait.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Yes it was a opiate and your right DEA don't care I'm a believer in Karma one day they will be struck with pain and I hope they can't find anyone to help them with there pain
Helpful - 0
547368 tn?1440541785
Thanks for sharing your experience Corey. Was this an opiate medication?

I totally believe in that 3 day supply. I live in a hurricane prone area, other members live in tornado alley and many live in a rural area where ice or snowstorms can hold you hostage in your home for a few days.The policy to fill on day 30 only makes no sense.

The DEA doesn't care if anything make sense.These laws need to change. Sadly I don't think they will any time soon.

Thanks Again for you input.
~Tuck
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Avatar universal
This happened to me a few years ago I did a mail order one time and my insurance mailed them to me 7 days early I went to WalMart and there was a new pharmacist said I should have about a week worths of meds mind you this mail order was done 11 months ago she would not fill them I never returned to a WalMart pharmacy again and alot of the meds it say you shouldn't allowed yourself to run low on that med what happens if there was a Strom and you couldn't get to the pharmacy to get them I feel you should have at least a 3 day supply in case of emergency
Helpful - 0
547368 tn?1440541785
I haven't heard of pharmacies holding past the fill date. Sadly as I said earlier it's my guess the DEA may be looking over their shoulder - or it's possible they have been audited by the DEA or expect to be audited.

A day or two early fill doesn't seem like a big deal to you or I. It's a big deal to the DEA. Your mom was prescribed a certain amount of opiates that were to last her for 30 days. The DEA and prescribing physician expect that she will follow orders and took the opiates as RXed. Therefore she should have more meds on hand.

DEA is on the look out for ppl that may be selling or diverting medications. They want to know what happened to the "extra" meds she should have, provided she took them as ordered. The pharmacy has drawn a conclusion that she has these "extra" meds. They have counted back all the early fills, the amount of meds she should have and decided they will not fill her next RX until these "extra" meds or "days" have passed.  

I'm very sorry. I assume your mom had pain and took more than prescribed, hence the early fills. If that is the case she needs to discuss her pain levels with her prescribing physician. Apparently her pain is not controlled on what he/she is actually ordering. She may require a change, an increase or an addition to her medication regime.

Even sadder the DEA controls our physicians and pharmacies, which controls we Chronic Pain Patients. Both entities must follow the laws to thee letter - or suffer the consequences, which can be severe. My heart goes out to your mom. She is caught in a difficult situation. I assume she is a senior citizen? She  may need your advice and guidance as suggested by Phil.

Obviously if she is out of opiates she will begin withdrawal. It's not a comfortable process and can even be dangerous. Her physician needs to be contacted. It's my guess your mom was just naive and thought she could legally fill early and took those meds.

Obviously the pharmacy allowed her to fill early and never questioned it. If the pharmacy had an objection or a concern it should have been raised long before this point in time. I would look for a different pharmacy. This stinks!! I am so very sorry.

FYI, I have filled my opiate RX a day early here or there for convenience reasons. I certainly won't do it again. I hope our members see this and are cautious. I appreciate your sharing...but again, so sorry.

In simple terms, yes the pharmacy may do what they are doing. Have I heard of it before? No!  Am I surprised? No! We Chronic Pain Patients are no longer treated with compassion and understanding by many including the DEA. We have become "the enemy". I could go on but I've said enough.

Again I am so sorry for your mom. Please consult her physician. I'll look forward to hearing from you again. I hope you'll keep us updated.

Take Care and Best of Luck to you Both,
~Tuck
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thank you both for your input,  but have either you ever heard of them "backdating days" and not only not filling early,  which I understand,  but they are holding past the fill by date.  Her appt was on the 12th, she usually fills them on that day or day after.  They told her they can't fill until 21st.
Helpful - 0
7721494 tn?1431627964
Tuck is right -- it wasn't always so. But regulatory agencies are keeping a close eye on opioid prescriptions for two reasons:

1) there has been a measured increase in mortality rates of people with opioids in their system during the years 1999-2008 according to CDC.

2) DEA and other police agencies have had little success to show for their billion dollar budgets in keeping illegal drugs away from our borders. To justify these huge budgets, these regulatory agencies have turned inward, prosecuting doctors who treat pain with opioid analgesics and pharmacies where people in pain get their medication. Over 2000 doctors were prosecuted last year alone. This is what we call the "War on People in Pain" or the "War on Pain Doctors"


Yes, pharmacies can have their policies on when to dispense (this is probably not state law, but a pharmacy policy). Their concern is that patients "stockpile" controlled medications, and can then sell them, or take them all at once and hurt themselves. Both ideas are stretches of the imagination that only occur in America, where our fear of "drug addiction" is paranoiac.

When you apply a policy designed to exclude aberrant behavior from small, specific group of people, you harm the vast majority who follow the rules.

I'd look for another pharmacy. If there is a small family owned pharmacy locally, you may have a better chance of developing a personal relationship with the pharmacist who can then act as a care provider for your mother, instead of a watchdog for some federal or state police agency, who really have no business in your mother's medical care.

Again, only in America do police second-guess a doctor's judgement in the prescribing of pain medication. This oversight of pain management in America, as practiced today, is a source of derision by specialists in other western countries.

I'd also talk to my doctor about running short of pain meds every month. This is the key issue here -- if pain flares are causing her to run short each month, then pain is being under treated. Perhaps an additional medication might help, or an interventional treatment. Help your mother pursue the answers here.

No one deserves to suffer from lack of pain treatment due to the interference of regulatory agencies of government in the doctor-patient relationship.

Finally, does your mother use those plastic pill dividers each week to help manage her medication? I take many pills everyday, I lose count and have run short at the end of the month if I don't use the pill dividers. This leads to the terrible experience of opioid withdrawal, a feeling that no pain patient needs (or wants.)

If not already doing so, please help your mother manage her meds by using these dividers.

Best wishes to you both.
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547368 tn?1440541785
Hello and Welcome to the Pain Management Forum. I'm glad you found us and took the time to post.



The "War on Drugs" has become a war on anyone (good or bad) associated opiates. It's the War of Physicians, War on Pharmacies and War on Chronic Pain Patients. What has happened is that many of the abusers, drug addicts and dealers that the government was after have just gone to a different drug. They didn't care where they got their "high" or their money. Heroin use (and over dose) is in epidemic proportions. Sadly the "War" continues but now it's against Chronic Pain Patients!    

Normally a pharmacy and insurance will allow you a one day early fill depending on the date of the prescription. They cannot fill it before the date on the prescription. If her pharmacy has been doing that they may be concerned with the ramifications. DEA may be looking over their shoulder closer than it has in the past.

Your mom's best bet is to contact her physician and explain the situation to him/her. She may need a few more opiates a month if they have only been lasting 28 days. She may also want to consider changing pharmacies but she probably will be held to that 30 day fill. What her pharmacy should have done is said going forward her prescription won't be filled until such and such a date but that's the nice way - and nice doesn't exist in this "War".

Please let us know how your mom is doing. My heart goes out to her. I'll look forward to your updates.

Best of Luck,
~Tuck
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