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Avatar universal

why am I having withdrawal feelings in the mornings

I have been on hydrocodone, except for a few months, for nearly 6 years. During those few months, regretfully, a pain specialist put me on much stronger meds.(methadone, morphine, fentyl patches, suboxone)  I had an awful time getting off of them.  I have posted on here before about my awful withdrawals from them.  I was on them for such a short time, but it didn't seem to matter when I stopped taking them.  I experienced awful panic attacks, then anxiety attacks.  I had been on two 7.5 hydrocodone per day prior to the stronger meds.  These were prescribed by my doctor for chronic back pain from 4 back surgeries.  My doctor increased it to 10mg 325 x 3  per day after my last fusion surgery.  I have been taking 2 and half per day.  I have been waking up every morning, for over a year, feeling like I'm in withdrawals.  What do others, that are forced to stay on hydrocodone to ease pain, do in order to not feel this way in the mornings?  I had a doctor that told me the only way I could stop this is to set a clock and take more around 2 am.  I never felt this way prior to the few months on the stronger drugs.  I don't know if the stronger meds changed something in my body or if my body needs more bc of the time I have been on them.  One more question, do any of you experience pressure headaches from taking hydrocodone?  Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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Avatar universal
Hi I saw your post about Ayurveda. My goodness that is some amazing stuff. From what I've heard, if you get treatment from a "real deal" Ayurvedic doctor, the results can be mind-blowing. I personally knew an older lady who had lost her voice (from day one, since I met her, she had no vocal cords so to speak), and had gone to several doctors over the years and all she could manage was a whisper and a squeak. Then several years later when I saw her again, she had a big booming strong amazing voice and she said she had gone through a course of Ayurvedic treatment (real deal, though, I think she had gone to India).
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Avatar universal
Sure, send me what you can.  I went to a doctor today.  He is doing more blood work.  He is checking  several things, B12, folic acid, magnesium, hormones, lyme titers etc .  He just said he would see if he could find something that he could help me with.  He didn't say too much  that was encouraging.  

From what I have read and heard, this is very hard to treat.  The doctor told me there wasn't any thing to treat it with as far out as I am.  It's been a year since the bite.  

He is looking at a lot of things. I really hope he finds something that he can treat that will help me feel better.  I was having these awful headaches  before the bite, so I think they my be unrelated.  He has ordered a CT head scan and echo cardiogram also. Feeling really down today. Thanks
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1926359 tn?1331588139
Hey Lena how are you feeling today?
I've been thinking about you and what you are going through so I just did a quick read of your posts.  I am sorry I'm a little slow to the party, I did not realize you DO have Lyme's disease.
Listen, the student that I mentioned is suffering something terrible.  I am close with her mother and I just did a fundraiser for them.  Lyme's disease is not recognized as a chronic illness here in Canada, and therefore her medical treatments are not covered entirely.  Her parents pay over 14,000$ a year for treatment out of pocket.  I do what I can to help with fundraising and providing her younger sister with free classes at my school.
Anyways, getting to the point.  My student's mom is a HUGE lyme disease advocate that has spoken at events around north america and she has tons of knowledge on treatments etc.  If you would like I can get some info for you and PM it to you.  I also have a friend of a friend in LA with Lyme's disease who is pretty much in remission after Ayurveda treatment.  She is extremely wealthy and this treatment was expensive but she is in total remission.
I just feel for you and want to help any way I can so please let me know if you'd like me to access the info I can for you.
Lu
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1926359 tn?1331588139
EMDR is used to access painful memories and work through them by putting safeties in place so that you feel calm remembering.  it helps you to form new neural pathways in your brain.  Google it.  I was fortunate that I received free treatment through the Haven Centre for domestic abuse that I went to for support when I left my husband.
I know it sounds like I've been through a lot, and I have, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Once I got off the opiates and got into serious therapy and recovery my life completely transformed.  I got healthy.  I began a successful business doing what I loved, and I finally met the love of my life.  Despite my current medical set back, I am super happy and know that my life will be beautiful again soon once this pain is dealt with.
It is these struggles that build character in how we deal with them.  It is where we learn about our true strength and resiliency.
That is wonderful you have a supportive husband.
If you had endo and are doing hormone therapy THIS could be a major reason for anxiety.  Our hormones are the most powerful substance our body creates.
Did you have your endo excised or lasered?
Yes, I would not recommend a benzo.
They are awful and I wish I'd never started.  It's taken me three years but I am almost off (:
I take Tryptophan in high prescribed doses for sleep.  It is a natural seratonin booster and mood stabilizer.  If you aren't on AD meds it is an awesome alternative.  People have had huge success with using it to treat anxiety disorders, depression, and even to help ease w/d's so talk to your doctor about it.
I am here always if you have questions or just want to vent.  This forum helped save my life and I count it as an amazing tool in recovering good health and happiness.
I'm off to hopefully sleep.
xo
Lu
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Avatar universal

Oh my, you make my situation seems small.  I am so sorry for all you have been thru.  I will never understand why some people seems to have so much to happen to them, and others go thru life without any pain.  They enjoy every day.  

No, I'm not taking steroids.  That's another thing I can't handle.

I also had endometriosio several years ago.  I went thru a roller coaster ride to get hormones that I could take.  I finally after years ended up with bio-hormones. I thought that was the worst thing I would ever have to deal with.  

I do have a wonderful husband.  I have been blessed.  The only problem is, he does not understand.  I can tell him and tell him what I am going thru, but there is no way he can understand.  He has only dealt with a few
headaches and an occasional back ache.  How can he understand?

I'm sorry, but what is EMDR?

I don't know how to get off of the pain meds when I can't go all night without these withdrawals.  This has been going on for a long time.  I don't think my system is going to adjust. I still deal with anxiety, mostly at night and early morning.  That was always when my panic attacks were the worst.  I'm not taking anything anymore for it.  I couldn't handle having to be on benzo.  It helped with the initial attacks, but made me have more anxiety during the day.  I don't have the awful attacks anymore, but it's still very uncomfortable.  I probably would benefit from therapy.  I just don't know a good place to go.

Praying your surgery goes well and you are feeling better soon too.  
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1926359 tn?1331588139
Agh I so feel for you.  These crazy medical journey's take a LOT out of us.  It sounds like your flu like symptoms could be caused by the infectious disease.  Your immune system has taken a beating.  Also, are you taking any other meds like steroids?
When I was on prednisone for years for my Crohn's, I developed terrible anxiety.  I also had terrible anxiety preceding my many hospital visits and a few near death experiences from bad drug reactions.  I was given Remicaide (the 'miracle' drug) for my Crohn's.  Within 24 hours I felt like I was dying and I called my mom in the middle of the night and she took me to the hospital.  I had serum sickness and my digestive system was completely shutting down.  I coded in the hospital.  It took three weeks of being on TPN and high doses of steroids and antibiotics before I could leave the hospital.  After my Crohn's was in remission I went off prednisone only to have my adrenal system crash.  Again, close to death I was admitted to hospital and had to go back on and wean again very slowly as my body was pred dependent.  Then, my pain got worse.  Because the doctor's could not find any explanation for it (my scopes were all clear as were all xrays and CT's) my GP at the time thought it was all in my head and sent me to a psychiatrist.  He wrote in his notes that I was far too beautiful, healthy looking, and articulate to be in as much pain as I claimed and so therefore I was either drug seeking or had borderline personality disorder.  When I heard this I was so distraught that I immediately went cold turkey off all my meds, including the benzo I'd been taking for sleep since prednisone treatment.  I nearly had a seizure.  I remained on a low dose of benzo and tried to desperately manage my debilitating pelvic and abdominal pain naturally.  I was referred to the pain clinic at the hospital where I was the only patient not on any opiates.  I tried TENS and lidocaine injections, gabapentin, nothing worked and the gab made me really really sick and depressed.  Finally, at the behest of the pain psychologist I saw a great pain management doctor.  He read my whole history and referred me to the Pelvic Pain clinic in Vancouver.  He said my case sounded almost identical to his wife.  And his wife had severe endometriosis. The surgeon I saw said she believed I had a pretty serious case of endometriosis.  After a lap surgery this was confirmed (stage 4, total organ involvement) and she put me on hormone treatment and opiates for pain and I waited another year before having total pelvic reconstructive surgery.  I had one of the worst cases of endo she had ever seen and she figured I'd had it for over a decade.  My excision surgery was 6 hours long and there were 17 surgeons in the room- I was only the second person in the world to have this specific surgery.  It was very successful.  Unfortunately in that time between surgeries and on all those meds I got married.  He ended up abusing me verbally and then sexually.  Post op.  I left him and began the process of getting off the drugs.  Once clean from opiates and with a clear mind I began CBT (as Jinx mentioned above) and EMDR for PTSD.  I also did SMART recovery as during my abusive marriage I began taking the pain meds not just for the physical pain, but to numb the emotional pain.

The reason I'm telling you my story is because you've been through a lot of medical trauma.  The EMDR I did for both my medical PTSD and the PTSD from my abusive marriage absolutely changed my life.  I have not experienced panic attacks since.  Even now when I am in severe pain and under a lot of stress.  It really taught me a lot about coping tools and self love.
You've been through an awful lot sweetheart and it sounds like you need some support to help you heal.  
I have a student who has Lyme disease and suffers terribly.  Her mom is an AMAZING advocate as my mom was for me.  It's so important to have an advocate.  Do you have good family support or a partner?
Just know that you aren't alone and if you ever need to vent, ask questions,or get support feel free to PM me.
I feel for you, I really do, and pray that you WILL feel good again one day SOON.
It took me a long time, but I did.  I had to fight for it.  Now I am suffering again even worse than before, but I know that there will be an end to it because I have the best surgeon and great support.
You deserve the very best.
Hugs...
Lu
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Avatar universal
Yes, I have had several nerve blocks, and other procedures.  Of course, they were before I hopefully got my back truly fixed. I wondered about trying it again. Thanks for the information.
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Avatar universal
I didn't mention this, but since you seem to understand a lot, I will. I was diagnosed with Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever in June of this year.  I had an awful bite that I showed to my doctor, a month before my last fusion surgery, last May.  He said it looked like it was inflamed and probably needed antibiotics.  Then he dismissed it, because I had just taken antibiotics for a sinus issue.  Of course, I know now you need a different antibiotic, doxy.  If I had been given it then, I could have been well in a few days.  I have had a miserable few years between systems of RMSF, the long drawn out withdrawals from the strong meds, back surgeries, back pain, legs aching like crazy, pressure headaches every afternoon, withdrawal feelings every morning.  What I would give to have a day when I felt good. I have no way of knowing what is causing what.  I went to an Infectious Disease doctor, before I knew I had RMSF, he had a ton of blood drawn and checked me for everything.  He also checked me for lyme disease.  It came back negative. He said two of my IGG subclasses were low. I didn't know before then that I had IGG subclasses.  He had me to take 3 infusions of IVIG. They made me sicker.  Because of a friend, that had lyme, and insisted I had it, I asked my regular doctor to do a lyme test on me again.  He for some reason also checked for RMSF.  He was shocked to discover I had it. I have not been outside much because of the back surgeries.   I have been on doxy for 21 days, and was very sick while on them.  Several days after too.  I am going to another doctor on Tuesday, that is supposed to understand RMSF.I am hoping he can help me. To make something clear, I haven't had any of the strong meds since July 2012.  I shouldn't still be dealing with them.  I was referring to when I was going thru the withdrawals back then.  Months after I stopped them, I was still having flu-like system and panic attacks.  That's when I kept hearing you can't still be having withdrawals.  

Thanks everyone for your concern and comments.  

It has been a long journey.  I pray each day, that I will feel good again one day.
Helpful - 0
8976007 tn?1413330650
i took the time to read some of your old posts and what you have been through.  
is the hydrocodone controlling your pain??  
if it is not then that can cause a lot of anxiety as well.  of course, it is always better to avoid opiates when you are out of pain, but many people fail to realize what severe pain can do to your brain and other organs.  it is NOT good for you at all.

then there is the other side of the coin where taking opiates can actually make your pain worse.  opiates are really not good at controlling chronic pain because eventually they will make you hurt more.  

also, after being on so many big dogs (methodone, fentanyl, etc) you have altered your brain and how it copes with stress, pain, etc.  
i am not sure if this is ever reversible.  

attitude and outlook on life.  positive thinking, etc is so important.  
i really do feel that cognitive behavioral therapy would be wonderful for you.  addiction has never seemed to be an issue with you, but your lack of ability to understand or pinpoint what is causing you so much anxiety suggests that you would really benefit from such therapy.  

then there is the real possibility that something is going on with you that is undiagnosed.  whether that be ulcers, blood vessel issues, IBS, there are too many to mention.  
have you ever had an upper GI done?  well one done since you began having these issues?  
you have been suffering for so long and still have no answers.  frustrating i am sure.  i would really consider having a head to toe checkup. tell them you want them to do an upper GI, CT scan of your head or MRI (don't know which is better to see all the vessels, etc).  
your doctor needs to get to the bottom of your issues.  it is not right that you have been suffering so long.  it is as if your doctor has written you off as a hypochondriac or something.  

so sorry and hope you feel better soon and hope you get the answers you deserve
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1926359 tn?1331588139
Ok that's good that you're trying those other things.  Have you tried lidocaine injections or nerve blocks in your spine?  My mom has a similar condition to yours although in her case she has osteoarthritis and her spine is disintegrating.  She refuses both surgery and pain meds as she has been on my medical journey with me and seen what I've dealt with with the opiates.  She will never be without pain but she has found things that helped.  Mainly gentle yoga and meditation as well as Naproxen.  I have copied and pasted a post I made in the Social forum below.  I hope it helps you- it really helped me.

Hi All- I have discovered this wonderful guided meditation.  It is called Yoga Nidra and is meant for those dealing with addiction and chronic pain.  I just did it and after a hellish morning of pain where no meds would help, I feel much better and may even be able to function.

I think it would be a powerful tool for those of you that are in detox hell right now, for those of you that are dealing with chronic pain issues, anxiety issues, or even just normal stress.  Please try it and then post your feed back.
Love and Peace to all my MH friends.
xo
Lu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUtbkEGv5NU&list=UUo6uPgM3J-n69u6iRPro5lw
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Avatar universal
Stronger meds can change your tolerance, even if taken for a short time. It may take days or weeks for your body and mind to readjust downward.

There are all kinds of things to consider with opiate therapy, many pros and many cons, and all of these should be openly discussed with your doctor (like, your pressure headaches).

Your doctor may have good advice, for example, he may say that at 2:00am, if you're simply experiencing withdrawals and not experiencing true pain, to take LESS than a full dose rather than a full dose -- that way, your not feeding a cycle. Or, he might say otherwise. The point is, all this stuff should be shared with your doctor so that you can know that your doctor is well-informed when you are following his/her orders.

Many, maybe most, of us here on the forum are not doctors or medical professionals, rather, we are patients with pain. Not all of what you read here is true. In your post, you said, "Everyone on here kept telling me it couldn't still be withdrawals," and that is nonsense!

It's definitely possible to have withdrawals in the morning (or even between doses) when taking short-acting meds (e.g. hydrocodone, oxycodone, etc.) long term, even if you are taking them exactly as prescribed, and even if you never expose yourself to the stronger meds.

That's why taking opiates is serious stuff and should only be done under the care and advice of a physician.
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Avatar universal
I wear tens every day and have used the prescription strength Voltaren rub. The Voltaren rub does nothing for my pain.  I have considered trying the acupuncture.  Believe me, I don't enjoy taking the pain pills. If I took them to make me feel better, I would take the 3 prescribed for me.  Thanks for your comments.  
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1926359 tn?1331588139
I disagree- I absolutely think it's possible you are still feeling withdrawals.  I have a sensitive system too, so I can relate.  My doctors all told me I would need pain meds to function for the rest of my life.  But they were wrong.  I functioned WAY better than fine for nearly 3 years.  Yes, I am going to have to take opiates off and on as I have a chronic debilitating illness that may never go away.  But I only need them in acute situations like now waiting for surgery.  After surgery I will not need them.  Hopefully getting pregnant will put me in total remission- it does sometimes.  If not I will cross that bridge when I come to it.  But I will NEVER live on opiates.  Living on opiates is not living.  If I were you I would tell my doctor that I wanted to see where my pain levels were at without opiates and try holistic means of managing.
There are good prescription NSAIDS out there (I can't take NSAIDS because I have Crohn's disease) Physiotherapy, lidocaine injections, prescription strength Voltaren rub, restorative yoga, acupuncture, TENS, meditation.  These are all things that people with your condition use to manage their pain without opiates.
If you try these things for awhile you may be surprised at the result.  You may never live pain free, but the pain will be manageable.  I've come to accept that I will always have pain- but my pain from Crohn's and Rheumatoid Arthritis is totally manageable without opiates.
It took me a long time and a lot of hard work to find solutions.  But I knew a pill bottle couldn't solve my problems and ultimately, it only created more.

I truly think if you stop all meds and once you get through acute withdrawal you will feel much better.
I may be wrong but it's worth a shot of finding out dontcha think?
It's not worth it to take the drugs if they aren't helping you.
Think about it.
Whatever you decide we will support you (:
Lu
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Avatar universal
I went right back to the hydrocodone after stopping the stronger meds.  I had 2 very painful fusions after that.  I had already had two other back surgeries.  You may be right, the pain level could go down if I were able to stop the hydrocodone.  If I knew that, I would certainly do it.  My doctor tells me that I will always have pain. I hate feeling this every morning.  Yes, I'm in pain when I wake up, but I have something that feels like withdrawals too.  I wish I didn't deal with pain or pills. I have a very sensitive system.  I'm afraid it will take me a very long time, even though it's hydrocodone, to get it out of my system.  Everyone on here kept telling me it couldn't still be withdrawals when I stopped the other strong meds, but I still had flu-like systems for months afterwards. Also, the awful panic attacks. I had withdrawals longer than I was on the meds.
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1926359 tn?1331588139
Also-
Being in constant w/d for a year is miserable.  I did it for 7 months and that is why I bit the bullet and went cold turkey.  As long as you are putting the opiates in your body it is going to want more.  Once it is completely out of your system and you manage to heal you will have a better idea where you are at.
You should be taking vitamins and supplements (See Thomas Recipe in the Health pages) and drinking plenty of fluids,
I'm sorry this has been so rough for you.
It sounds like your doc just threw a bunch of drugs at you and I know what that is like.
Keep us posted...
Lu
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1926359 tn?1331588139
Hi there-

Absolutely the stronger meds caused this!  They would have increased your number of pain receptors.  How long after stopping taking the big guns did you go back to a low dose?  Are you sure what you are experiencing are withdrawals or just pain?
I am on opiates pre op and was only taking them in the late afternoon and evening.  My pain has been increasing rapidly as my disease is progressive.  I have to wake up and dose in the middle of the night- usually the pain wakes me up anyways- or I wake up screaming in the morning and cannot get the pain under control.  It's awful.
I take hydromorphone and have been experiencing head aches- migraines, but I think this is from the hormones I have been taking.

But- when I was on huge doses of fentanyl and oxy post surgery last time I had horrible headaches the whole time I tapered- so I believe that what you are probably experiencing is withdrawal.  I found after I went cold turkey that I felt miles better,  And after about a month my pain levels were reduced by 90%.  I lived opiate free for nearly 3 years and in very good health, managing my pain and illness entirely holistically, until my stage 4 endometriosis returned.  It is the one type of pain that cannot be managed by anything other than opiates.  I have surgery Oct 3rd and then I will do a fairly aggressive taper and be off so I can conceive (fingers crossed)

I would highly suggest to you stopping your meds and seeing where your pain levels are at.  There are many members on this site with your same issues who manage their pain without narcotics..
Opiates used long term create hyperalgesia- meaning they cause more pain as your body becomes dependent and needs more and more to find relief.
They are NOT good options for chronic pain.
This is just my opinion- but it's pretty widely shared.
Ultimately it is up to you.
Keep posting...
Lu
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