Maybe this is due to the "nose whistling", when you have a deviated septum for instance there can be a strong frequency coming from your nose when you breath in and out. When you breath in the frequency is maybe affecting your bowels too...
Don't know for sure if this is the cause, but I have a deviated septum and there where people that claimed their patm was gone after the surgery.
Anyways if this is it, it is important to find a way to keep this frequency down.
I can imagine you will be thinking "what the ****?".
Thanks gateful2011. I’ve used SB too as they are sold from any health store but I don’t have access to regulated medicine.
Some people with bad-breath have tried Blis K12 without any success. Generally first try never worked because they just take the mouth bacteria pill prior to brushing their teeth.Therefore they normally try other things and sometimes find their way back to Blis K12. On second try, they might scrape their tongue and wash with Hydrogen Peroxide before applying the mouth probiotic. When this is done, their mouth becomes fresher than any breath on earth.
Therefore, I presume if PATM is a gut flora imbalance problem alone, and not genetic, then this is path to take. It needs a very powerful all round antimicrobial like “Miltefosine” to first knock out the invading strains first before applying SB. So we will have to go on antimicrobial pills for a few days before taking SB. That’s what ‘hopeful12345’ was doing. But he was doing it with a relatively weak antibiotic. I think it’s good that he has shown us the way. “Miltefosine” is not just for some strain of bacteria. Scientists have done trials on many other microbial bugs like candida, amoebas etc. That’s why CDC keeps a tight control over it.
If ‘Miltefosine’ and SB fails after a month or two then the only answer would be, PATM is genetic and we’ll have to try to live with it as there’s nothing we can do about it.
It wouldn’t make any sense because the majority of PATMERS don’t have deviated septum…and if you’re referring to nose whistling which is literally sound then how do you link sound from your nose to your stomach and then to people being allergic? If you can make a reasonable relationship then you may have point.
If you did then there are many possible explanations such as:
1. The antibiotics have knocked out many of the controlling strains and allowed more hostile strains including the ones responsible for patm to take control of your gut flora.
2. The medication may have cause a chronic hormonal imbalance.
3. The medication itself may have caused a mutation within your gastrointestinal track or elsewhere within the body.
I have read some of your posts and your theory makes some sense. I definitely think PATM without a single doubt has to do with your gut particularly the small intestine. I'm not sure if it's genetic or not but I really don't think so considering I have no family members that I'm aware of who have this disease. Now how do I know the root problem is located in the small intestine because our entire immune system is a result of how healthy our small intestine is. The better diet I have the better I feel and vice versa. My diet is pretty strict no gluten,sugar, dairy, pocessed foods, additives, mostly natural plain foods. I also keep a low histamine diet which I have noticed a dramatic reduction in reactions. I'm very active play sports so what I put in my body very limited but very well oriented.
Now I'm not claiming I'm cured but very well aware of how to manipulate this disease. As of now the only pill/medication intake is oxypowder because it's a quick relief. I also consume lots of coconut in different forms which seems to have a positive impact on PATM most likely because of its antifungal properties.
Now my theory is we have created an environment in our stomachs that have made it an ideal place for bad bacteria to thrive and our good gut flora is way low with minimal to no chance of it getting our good flora to make a comeback. I think OXYGEN is something we lack because with proper levels of oxygen bacteria can not survive. That's why oxypowder has gave so many people on this forum relief. Oxygen helps us digest food but instead we have undigested waste in our systems because of low oxygen level hence leaky gut. I belief the proper term is ACIDIC. We need our bodies to be more ALKELINE instead of acidic.
I have diviated septum and did not realize untill this year. I'm sure iv had this since I was a kid because it has always been hard for me to breathe properly. I think it's no coincidence that many of us who suffer from PATM also suffer from deviated septum I think their is a correlation.
Also have you thought about using products like oregano oil with p73 on the label. This an extremely effective product that kills candida. Anyways just thought id share my thoughts maybe we can all put our heads together and figure this out. I'm thinking of making a YouTube channel what do you guys think?
Thanks sharing your ideas. Unfortunately for me, I have members in my family who have this. I have also read in this forum of others claiming to have patm members in the family. Those that have it very often keep silent. That’s why everyone here is anonymous. I didn’t know that some of my siblings had patm until recently. But regardless of all that, rare genetic disorders are normally a combination of homozygous recessive alleles so very often doesn’t show up at all or only something like 25% of total offspring. If I go through cycles of tough antimicrobial drugs like “Miltefosine” together with SB, only then will I get the outcome to convince myself of what it is.
As for deviated septum, I’m sure that I don’t have it and I don’t have breathing problems. Maybe in your case is what caused patm, but still I can’t see the connection between bend tissue in the nose, bacteria in the gut and allergic reaction from people.
I think oxypowder is effective because it has compounds that act as laxative; however, it has some drawbacks because introducing oxygen for the body internally increases the chance of cancer dramatically. Free radicals roam freely inside the body……… although it may give you relief temporarily, please be careful because in the long run it can cause problems for you. While oxygenated products kills bacteria externally and purify water, it does more damage when taken into the body… simply because it binds to things but inside the body the cells have no protection. Read some of the earlier postings from 2013-2014 of various members in this forum who used oxypowder and worked for a while but patm eventually came back. That’s why I’m getting the feeling it’s a genetic problem, because whenever someone is confident with some product, after a while patm comes back.
With TMAU, smelly TMA is made as a result of digestion and gut bacteria which always exist in the gastrointestinal tract. The TMA is converted to non-smelly compound afterwards by an enzyme encoded by the FMO3 gene but TMAU guys have a defective FMO3 gene. So when TMAU patients take all kind of antibiotics, bacteria usually die and TMAU people would find some relief until the gut bacteria builds resistance against the antibiotics and start digesting food into smelly TMA compounds again.
So far, patm people, have also shown this oscillating effect as they try different things.
Oregano oil is a relatively weak antibiotic but perhaps useful when cycled with something else in the long term. I know grateful2011 have used it with great success.
I know from biology there’s a p73 protein but I didn’t know that someone called a product p73. Anyways, have you used it and what’s it for? Has it worked?
Thank you for sharing your ideas. I learn every time I read other people’s views. You’re definitely correct.. discussing will help us to understand more. I think some people in the past have created youtube and facebook accounts but it wouldn’t hurt to make more as we need more support.
PATM hereditary could be a possibility but I don't have that much knowledge to back this theory up. My two younger siblings show no signs. If you and your siblings both have PATM how is it like being next to each other? Any reactions?
I think I developed PATM through bad diet and antibiotics. It started with bad breathe then fecal body odor and finally PATM. Maybe you and your siblings developed PATM because you guys were all exposed to a bad eating life style.
As for deviated septum I never thought I had it because I was so used to it (not breathing properly) and thought I was breathing normally. Now, yes deviated septum is just bend tissue in the nose but leads to other problems. As for me I also have enlarge turbinates in my nose and lots of mucus in my throat and nose which I constantly have to spit out. All this buildup creates bacteria that you intake and goes straight into your digestive tract. Now this might not do much in the short run but in the long run can result in some serious digestive issues. With this combination of an unhealthy diet, bacteria consumption, and not breathing effectively creates an ideal environment for bacteria to thrive.
If an abundance of oxygen is present in our bodies bacteria should be difficult to grow and develop. I have never heard of oxygen intake giving people cancer. I thought it actually did the opposite considering that people take food grade hydrogen peroxide to fight against cancer and bacteria. I know oxy-powder alone won't cure PATM but what I think it does instead is remove the waste product of whatever bacteria we have so it doesn't go directly into our system like blood.
Too be honest I don't think there is one set of drug that will cure PATM it has to be more of a combination. Oil of oregano gave me great temporary success but the problem is that when I was taking it I still had deviated septum and not much of a good diet. This is what oil of oregano is- "Oregano is a species of the mint family and has numerous health benefits. The oil of oregano found at local grocery stores is not a true form of oregano. True oregano grows wild in specific conditions in Mediterranean regions. Wild Oregano P73 stands for polyphenol 73 percent and is a specific blend of several high-grade, medicinal, wild oreganos. P73 Oregano is a rich source of natural vitamins and minerals. It has excellent germ-killing powers and can be used as a natural remedy for many aliments. As always, consult with your doctor before using any home herbal remedies". This stuff is potent and you should probably give a try.
My plan is to get my deviated septum corrected which I have been seeing an ENT for. My surgery should be in a couple of weeks. After this I'm going to give oil of oregano p73 a shot with BB and see what happens from there. It will probably be best to rotate antifungals so the bacteria we have does not become immune to it.
I think it's something in our sinuses, when i breathe out (exhale) i feel it's so hot air, and when i walk up sometimes i find bloody snot inside my nose attached to the bottom part of my nostril
I don't know but i think this video is similar to what we have all
If your search in youtube with "bad smell cacosmia" you will find the video that i am refering to.
I'm planning to visit this doctor wherever he is on Earth
"TMAU guys have a defective FMO3 gene". This is ONLY true for TMAU1. With TMAU2 (the acquired, not genetic, type of TMAU), people usually have a normal TMA/TMA-N-oxide ratio which implies FMO3 enzyme is fine. TMAU2 sufferers have increased TMA excretion because there is probably overwhelming amounts of bad bacteria, such that normal FMO3 enzyme is insufficent to process it. Once everyone starts understanding that TMAU is not exclusively a genetic disorder and actually has an infectious component (bacterial infection), it may not be so summarily dismissed as"oh well, it's genetic, there's nothing we can do". Once again, TMAU2 is the result of a bacterial infection. If there are other family members that have TMAU2 (or significant others/partners) it could be the result of transmission of the bacteria.
I appreciate you soilsytem for sharing your ideas. I understand and agree with what you’re saying with some minor details. btw I was only using TMAU type 1 as a comparison for PATM and not type 2. As for TMAU type 2, these are the only almost reputable website I can find.
Ncbi has this to say on type 2, meaning they don’t fully understand the different combination of factors that contribute to type 2, let alone the suggestion that gut microflora may play a role in the generation of symptoms in some individuals. The word “may” which they used is a sign of not being sure.
They’ve listed a few of possible causation for type 2 or a combination of factors including gut flora but bacterial infection alone is not the only possibility. I don’t have TMAU so I wouldn’t know about the possible infectious possibilities; even so, there are other gut bacterial infectious diseases that spread easily if people don’t take proper precaution. If TMAU 2 is infectious then why haven’t we heard of an outbreak once?
I’m not disagreeing with your ideas but I’m just brainstorming for everyone to engage and come up with more ideas, and also see if there are some relevant ideas concerning our condition, PATM, if possible. For me, TMAU and PATM appear almost the same in every respect but with some minor differences. For example, my patm gives absolute no odor at all. I have never had BB before like most of these patmers experienced. Folks who have strong allergies towards me just don’t know what causes it. It takes a while before they realise their allergies is probably because of me then the avoidance begins.
“Cases of trimethylaminuria have been described where there was no genetic predisposition, or at least less than fully inactivating mutations of the FMO3 gene as described above, but where a combination of dietary, gut metabolism, hormonal and enzyme expression may have been factors.”
“Gut Flora and Hepatic Disease
Both portosystemic shunting and severely impaired hepatocellular function have reported to cause trimethylaminuria in a few cases, thought to be due to decreased clearance of the absorbed TMA load, and failure of oxygenation.38,39 Bacterial overgrowth in the small bowel may increase TMA production, and this may contribute to the odour associated with uraemia.40,41 Given that even on the same dose of substrate precursor in loading tests there is a big variation in the amount of TMAO and TMA excretion, it is possible that the nature of the gut microflora may play a significant role in the generation of symptoms in some individuals.”
It is bizarre for me to see conditions in life that are so rare and improbable for doctors that I myself find it quite doubting too. Take this documentary for example.
The first thing that devoured my mind after watching this was this is likely complete ********. The peculiar thing is I found another video from another kid on CNN in the U.S. with the same problem whom doctors cannot understand why his condition occurs. After several tests they admitted they don’t know what’s wrong with him and presumably would not have believe him if they didn’t see it for themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e33gJfLT90
Doctors initially considered it a mental illness but are now trying to help them. I’m still skeptical until I hear a thorough medical examination into the condition itself.
Nevertheless I have always spectacled about our problem, PATM. Physicians are unwilling to help us and consider patmers as mental retards in advance without any thorough diagnosis. We are experiencing the same process tmau folks went through years ago before they had their conditions uncovered by mistake. I can only presume what they must have felt when they were told numerous times they were unhygienic and retarded. I don’t know how long we will endure this but I think it’s going to be a long way for all of us. We will have to hang on tight for a few more years because the MDs who are going to help us are probably not born yet. We just have to watch our diet carefully and incorporate any other measures necessary to make our lives easier and walk on.
can you get somebody there (university) to measure the amount of CO2 you are putting out? there may be a fermentation process involved in both TMAU2 and PATM that causes waves of CO2 gas with some irritant in it (and smell in the case of TMAU2)...just a thought...also, waves of "bubbly" CO2 could maybe explain some of the electrical phenomena e.g. the bubbly gas wave interrupts electrical current, but the electrical current itself does not alter itself
Hi soiledsystem! I like your spirit of persistence and always looking for an answer. You’ll find them.
Sadly I have 2 assignments for next week so I’ll just make it brief.
A vehicle produces about 6 times the amount CO2 vs a human per day and grows exponentially. In a car race, it almost triples that amount. They also produce poisonous gases depending on the combustible mixture utilized. If CO2 was the answer, we’d be killed by our own cars and lawnmowers. A crowded cinema produces concentrated CO2 likely more than 100x our own.
The electric effect phenomenon is not a plausible scientific idea and it’s well understood by science major students as perquisite elementary knowledge. If I were to ask my lab technician for help, he could easily ask the faculty remove my student lab assistance privileges by considering me inefficient. It’s a nice way of declaring me retarded. I’m serious, some students in the past have been dismissed or privileges taken for performing crazy experiments during off hours.
However I’m open to all ideas therefore if you still insist then you can contact a tutor or student at a University or research facility near you for help. Some will do anything, even if they knew it wouldn’t work but for a relatively large amount of money depending on your specific demands.. all the best.
Of course you can get better. All you need is to put some work into it. That is really desensitising yourself. I don't know yet what causes these 'allergic' reactions but it is all just a feeling - the way you are feeling and you are able to project that onto someone else. That is how low we feel. For example if you feel nervous and sick and suddenly the fright literally freezes you youre projection literally goes there. But bottom Line its all just a feeling and I'm sure feelings can be overcome. What's interesting to me is I developed this feeling at 6 years old but ocd tripped its way in to backminish these feelings and when ocd went the feeling submerged its true reality. It is true in fact that people have created the personality that we have.
I was wondering if we should reach out to Dr. Irene Gabashvili. She used to have an active website "Aurametrix" but only her twitter account is active. She also has a facebook page. She is the scientific advisor for MEBO(TMAU). I know she is involved in metabolites. She might find us very interesting. Any thoughts?
I was thinking we could all contact her with our stories, symptoms, ect.
She does work on metabolites and such and since I feel are problems are dietary she could possibly help us. Right now they are mapping the Metabolome like we did the Genome. The Metabolome project is mapping all the metabolites that exist in our bodies. Pretty exciting stuff.
It's been awhile since I last posted. It seems many of the people on this forum have disappeared or stopped posting. Well anyways I hope they are still following unless they have been cured.
For me anyways, still trying to find the answer to this "patm," I think I have something but do not have all the pieces yet. I was hoping you guys could answer a couple of questions for me. I have been reading all the old posts (from the beginning) and came a across many people reporting having a rash.
My question is where is the rash, can you describe it, size, appearance, color and any other info such as if it comes and goes etc. and whether it was checked out by a doctor.
My second question is unrelated to the first but I was wondering how many people have had a breath test ie. Hydrogen, lactulose, lactose, fructose and other types of breath tests and what were the results.
Finally has anyone done the low FODMAPS diet, if so what was the outcome.
I haven’t had rash as described by some. I have never done the low fodmap diet either but I’m hoping to hear from other members that have done so.
I don’t think anyone got cure btw because they’d tell us because secrets generally don’t stay hidden for long. They just got sick of looking for answers and not find them. There are also those that found temporary measures like grateful2011 and hopeful and have moved on with their lives. I’m also mindful of people with similar problems such as bad breath, tmau, sibo and so on in this forum. There’s no clear way of distinction between members because of the shared common symptoms.
Breath test for me, no. I haven’t done it precisely for the reason that I think we need a thorough VOC examination in spite of fact special equipment is needed for it. Doctors and dentists don’t have such expensive equipments with them in private clinics and scarcely in many hospitals. There is a couple here at university but I don’t have access to them as an undergrad. It’s only for postgrad students. I was hoping my lab technician can help me but even he doesn’t have full access during off hours. There are strict rules on how to use them. It’s only through that we can rule out all sorts of suspicions.
I have to take up biology and chemistry as majors to lead in a path to have access to it in the future but currently I don’t. I’m patient so I take things carefully and not in a rush. I was optimistic university students in this forum would help out by trying to do the test if they have access to them because it will be years before I do. I’ve gotten no response so far. Currently if I choose not to pursue a chemistry degree then we’ll have to wait for someone else to come along who is willing to study all the way to test them out. The concept of examining VOCs has been brought up by dozens in this forum since 2008 I believe but most of them learnt through the internet and have no idea how it works and the difficulty involved in the process but nevertheless brought it up to our attention.
My suspicion so far is that the gas that causes patm is just something common… a common gas. If I were to brainstorm, the easiest way to know is to compare the VOC chemical analysis of a patm person to a normal person. Any obvious existing VOC in huge comparable amounts to a normal person is the most likely source. It will give isotope spectrum readings like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ObwiedniaPeptydu.gif which can be compared to a normal person. Huge spike readings from a patmer is expected on the anticipated VOC while a normal person will have a flat reading for that particular VOC.
I sincerely think there is no other test in this world that can satisfy our quest to understand patm other than this. It’s the most fundamental test that breaks down patm to the atomic level. It’s impossible for patm to remain a mystery at that level. Once the mysterious gas is identified everything else is attainable. We can throw a bone to the doctors and other researchers and they’ll do rest if we don’t want to continue.
You can try but if everybody in this forum were to write, what will they write? I am just a simple university student but I mingle with doctors and professors every day and trust me, the way they see things is different from what we imagine. I am likewise quite familiar with how people report patm in this forum.
Most ordinary people lack understanding of logically explanation, empirical evidence and the necessity of refraining from prejudice conclusions. It’s fine as we’re just common people. We don’t need to know them but that’s the very thing that doctors oppose and it’s hard for average folks to realize that. With a disease as mysterious as patm, our speculative interpretation to already suspicious doctors will only work against us.
Here’s what a doctor would do as soon as he obtains a bizarre letter from someone claiming to have a strange allergic disease that pierce through glass windows or malodor not detected by doctors excluding everybody else who’s not a physician. He’d get on his computer and access a global medical centralized database usually accessible for doctors worldwide and search diseases with symptoms alike, but even Google will do just fine. The first entry he’ll get from a long list of mental diseases that will pop up is probable “Olfactory reference syndrome (ORS)”.
The more patmers address the medical community the more they’ll be convinced we are crazy, and it’s because of clearly two reasons. 1. PATM is a strange and mysterious disease which we ourselves don’t really understand either. After all we don’t feel them, its other people that we interpret from and report that to doctors. 2. Our explanations are mostly speculative interpretation based on others, not from our own senses. It leaves room for huge speculation errors and doctors can easily home in on them and seal our fate.
Fortunately for other diseases, they don’t have this problem because patients report what they sense rather than reporting about other people senses. Not only they can explain precisely what they feel but doctors get accurate readings straight from patients.
I think an opportunity where we can all meet might be a good step. I've met only one patm'er with this mysterious illness and I'd preferably like to meet more. I feel it would be good for us to share ideas. Obviously its daunting, particular timid character that I am but I think maybe meeting someone would help us understand each other better. Is anybody (really) up for a meeting? Its a scary, confusing situation we've found ourselves in but I think if we keep supporting each other mainly a group form we can jot our ideas and keep on being determined. Its undoubetful we have alot of mixed up emotions and a strong confusement keeps showing up.
hydrogen breath test at cedars-sinai with lactulose (the gold standard for sibo testing)...high reading and diagnosis of SIBO. The sibo produced a "fermentation odor" (similiar to wet hay). Did SCD diet (lost too much weight and looked/felt ill), did not try FODMAPS. Body odor at this point (wet hay) was not as offensive, became burning rubber/ammonia/rotten meat later. Some PATM reactions at the early stage. While I feel I don't have SIBO anymore (no more gas/bloating), the TMAU2 (confirmed cleveland clinic) and PATM has gotten worse over time.
just wanted to add this to freeland's comments about VOCs (volatile odor compounds). the byproducts of bacterial metabolic activity (bacterial "waste products") can be VOCs, most notably sulfur.The most noxious of these are hydrogen sulfide ("rotten eggs"), methyl mercaptan ("skunk"/"barnyard"), and dimethyl sulfide ("rotting cabbage). I have had all of these smells, but my overriding one when i eat food high in choline (no-no for those with TMAU2) is skunk/barnyard e.g. methyl mercaptan.
here is a list of some other VOCs besides the sulfur-based ones, and what they "smell" like:
cadaverine: "urine"/"decaying meat"
putrescine: "rotting meat"
skatole: "human fecal matter"
isovaleric acid: "sweaty feet"
this info may only be helpful to people who have the odorous type of PATM (as many here report that their PATM is odorless)
Hi soiledsytem, yes “Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)”, generally means everything within a particular volume of space. The machines were however used by scientists very often to study prehistoric climate millions of years ago by obtaining trapped air bubbles on drilled ice cubes from the Antarctica. That’s how they know there was no oxygen in the atmosphere billions of years ago.
In any case for our concern the VOCs is everything within our breath. How the machine function is that it works on the principal of melting and boiling point in terms of temperature for different stuff.
On our case, a breath is taken and then frozen to a specified temperature to solidify all compounds which are then carefully collected and tested to identify each VOCs. It’s like taking steam (H2O) and solidify all at once then tested. The only difference here is we are doing the reverse process with VOCs on much lower melting points.
Actually there are a variety of different ways of doing it and I don’t know them all. People who claim things on sources such as sweat on hands, head, feet, underarms, urine, ***, poo, whatever LOL, regardless where, you actually don’t have to worry because everything ends up in the blood and VOCs in the breath, sweat glands and skin comes from the blood. Everything in the blood came from the gut which goes out through the anus. Therefore it doesn’t matter where the problem is, the breath VOCs test will show all relevant molecules so that’s a part you don’t need to worry about.
hi guys after long time I am here still I am suffering from the patm still lots of people cough now my condition is so bad I am same like a homeless I don't have anything my life I lost everything I am reject from my family who help us actually I don't understand
I have been doing some research and found a really great article on volatiles from “healthy” human bodies. It has an extensive list of 1840 VOC’s which have been identified in urine, feces, skin, breath, saliva, milk and blood.
What I was thinking is maybe we could all work together and try to go through the list of VOC’s and compile a condensed list of possible VOC’s that maybe causing patm. I know that the list is from a healthy human population however if we can find the right VOC that matches the symptoms and reactions we are experiencing; we could be a step closer to figuring out what’s wrong with us. It could be a compound that is normally produced in healthy humans however for us we might be producing above normal levels. What’s great about the list is it identifies which compounds are present in the 7 categories listed above.
We know that patm is coming from our skin and breath. It has been noted that after eating patm becomes worse so that means whatever we’re eating is not being digested properly and therefore it may get absorbed into our gut --> blood -->released via skin and lungs (breath). To add in the past people have said that exercising helps to lessen patm which is likely related to sweating from exercising as it releases the compound from our body –meaning it is in our skin/blood. I don’t think we need to focus on feces, milk and saliva but perhaps urine maybe interesting to look at. My theory is if we focus on blood, skin and breath it may or may not lead us to the answer.
Here are some other things I have observed to be true about patm....many say it is an allergy which I agree, as an allergy is a foreign invader that the body does not recognize. I believe it is an irritant which comes across with allergy like symptoms, also effects CNS.
One thing I noticed before even knowing I had patm, was my nose was suddenly unbelievably dry almost burning at one time, I even used petroleum jelly with no resolution. I have noticed others around me rub there noses, sneeze, even heard a girl say her nose was burning and people complaining of the air being dry. This irritant likely has a drying effect explaining why my lips, nose are so dry and thirsty. When your mucous membranes become dry, it makes you more vulnerable to elements like dust which trigger people to sneeze and perhaps the irritant itself as well. The other thing I have noticed is complaints of sore throat, again this irritant likely has a drying effect which causes throat/mouth to become dry and trigger a cough that’s why people will take a lozenge or something to drink. Dry eyes and rubbing also observed. Another complaint is mugginess/stuffy air, causing people to have difficulty breathing and feeling tired as the compound is probably displacing O2 in the air or just overwhelming. That’s why people yawn too, as some theories believe yawning is a way for your brain/body to get air. Other peculiar symptoms are body aches, headaches and even malaise (and many more). Important to note, for me anyways this irritant does NOT have an odor, if it does it maybe a pleasant or mild odor which is why people don’t say anything.
The plan would be to go thru the list of VOC’s present in breath, blood and skin and find any matching side effects and symptoms (as listed above) to those compounds. Information about a compound being part of a metabolic pathway in our body would be a gold mine as it will help to support our claims. It could even be linked to a type of bacteria or virus as well.
Here’s the link of the article which includes supplementary data ---which will need to be downloaded. Main focus would be looking at Table 1.
Table 1 is listed alphabetically, so someone could cover all compounds under A, another would do B etc. again focusing on compounds present in only breath, skin, blood...you could do all categories if you like. If you’re interested please send me a message to my inbox via medhelp.
Hey grateful2011, you said you take digestive enzymes and it helps. My experience with digestive enzymes is that it makes my patm almost 20 folds. I question whether we all have the same problem or not. I had tried stopping them for short periods and then start all over again but the same effects were observed. So I stopped completely.
I was astonished when you stated that digestive enzymes assisted you with your patm problem. I can’t help thinking about the possibility that we are sufferers with different conditions but with overlapping or similar symptoms. The other possibility is that you and I are trying out different enzymes. I tried it years ago without any luck. Therefore, can you please tell me what kind of digestive enzymes you’re taking? I don’t intend for it to cure me as I know it won’t but I am optimistic that the brand you use will at least not worsen my patm but help out with my digestion. I’m having very bad indigestion recently and it’s very uncomfortable.
If I remember correctly, the digestive enzymes I tried were for milk contents such as lactose though I recall clearly the horrific experiences that came with it. It was as if several clones of me were in one room. While it helped my digestion and the sleepiness went away, I had to give it up because my mates were sick as hell. Normally they’d tolerate coughing and sneezing for long periods but not when I was on digestion enzymes. It was a nightmare. They couldn’t stand a minute. Even my parents who usually don’t show any signs were coughing violently. Their frequent visit to the doctor only said they had common flu..lol. But as soon as I stopped the enzymes, they recovered few days later. After a few weeks I would try and the same effect reoccurred. I tried that that about 4 times in a row and concluded it wasn’t a very good idea.
But the experiences have helped me to gather data to suggest many hypotheses about patm and where I should be heading on my research if I am to continue on that path. But for now I need to stay calm and take things one at a time if I’m to reach my goal.
@jn4357 – good idea but it can’t work because you have no patm patient VOCs profile to compare to. Going through each and every VOCs is really the same as looking for a needle in a haystack. There’s a possibility for researches to ignore a particular VOC that has no relevancy to the purpose of the experiment. But if one of us is doing it, each and every VOC is a possibility and we don’t want to miss it. But that means it will be a difficult and long task prone to errors because there could be more than a thousand VOCs in one’s own sample.
Currently there is no chemist among us and to really look deep into the properties of each molecule, you’d need at least a postgraduate chemist with extensive lab experience. The best opportunity for anyone thinking of solving patm once and for all is to study all the way to university -> take biology/chemistry/biochemistry major -> use college tools to take VOCs profile of his own sample and compare to VOC profiles of others. For high-school graduate with good math, biology and chemistry background, it could take about 3-5 years of full-time courses to get there.
I’m a minor so I’m taking one course at a time or I can just drop it so the progress is really slow. It could take years at the rate I’m going.
I’d say 99% if done properly will reveal what patm is. Are you a student or graduate in any area of science?
Hi all I don't post much but have posted before. Following the conversations I just want to add a couple of things. 1- I am very down to earth friendly etc ... Willing to meet people so hit me up if you want to chat person to person.
2- yes it may be genetic - was on the phone with a cousin and she said something and I started coughing crazily! 3- I know what you all mean about dogs it's weird but they bark at me incessantly! 4- my children get reactions now ESP during pms and ovulation. 5- rinsing with Apple cider vinegar helps ... Also ingesting if you can get past taste. 6- I know this is going to be weird but I now make my toilet run...PLEASE let me know if you have noticed this --by run I mean make that random swishing sound when I am I'm close proximity. Piggy backing off freeland and introducing a crackpot theory, I think that there is something inside us that wants/ steals oxygen and the compounds change the air etc in order to get it ... Probably makes no since but I'm no scientist and I am half crazy with this mess . Trying to run a life with 3 children and a corporate job is ... We'll you can literally imagine !! My mother keeps bugging me about more activities for my kids, scheduling teacher conferences in person and oh yeah finding a man ... I'm like "dude ..."... Anyways I would live to chat with y'all ... Ps the Vimeo patm video I reached out to the director never heard anything ... I'd like to talk to the lady that was featured I totally understand her!
i have used digestive enzymes sometimes - NOT regularly and would not consider it a major contributor to me being patm free. It is one puzzle piece in my patm free journey !!!
as I indicated before many, many actions on my part have resulted in me being patm free - a totality of actions I decided to take BEGINNING IN 2011, some of which I continue to take daily AND some which I do not take or no longer do at this time including :
changing my food choices to mostly plant based choices
no fast food or junk food about 95% of the time
no dairy, no gluten, no meat, reduced sugar use, mostly stevia
vitamins d3 and b 12
oil pulling each morning with coconut oil
drink lemon water in the morning and a lot of water throughout each day
go to the sauna to release toxins
misc other supplements which would include digestive enzymes sometimes
as you can see the use of these is low on my list because it has not been a regular part of my daily regiment like for instance l-glutamine powder which I use daily in my smoothies !!
Thanks Grateful! I’m interested because I’m collecting data as I go along. I’ve discussed this phenomenon with our lab technician. By the way, his allergic symptoms is improving and neither doe he or know why, but fair to say he was always on allergy medicine since we met. After revealing to him about the effects of digestive enzymes (DE) on my condition in the past, he postulated that it could be an enzyme deficiency meaning some of the digested compounds may have some rather allergic impact on other people as we exhale the compound into the air around us, or perspiration and so on, but possibly we can’t break the molecules down like other people. Indeed his hypothesis isn’t giving me new information as I had the same supposition years ago.
In this hypothesis it’s has a very similar chemical pathway and discharge manner to TMAU type 1. It potentially explains why my symptoms intensified after I took digestive enzymes because the DE just increased the surface area of digestion manifolds thus producing more of the unknown compound. It appears to also explain why laxatives decrease the patm symptoms. Laxative, such as Oxy Powder move food quickly through the digestive tract and not allowing much time for complete digestion. When digestion is slow, food is expected to get broken down more so patm symptoms are greater. Laxatives have been observed to have this effect on similar diseases. Our hypothesis for now on that issue is that the missing enzyme could be the result of one/more genes or mutation(s).
Of course this is all a hypothesis among many.
We have done numerous tests on known diseases only to come up empty. We came to the conclusion months ago that the only way to break this down is to check for individual VOCs in my breath. We don’t have access to the University labs that have these facilities capable of dealing with this kind of research so we looked up information on all kind of portable VOCs sensors and many came up such as these.
The problem as I’ve stated before is that it’s likely limited in the amount of molecules it can detect, and will only keep to a narrow band of the purpose for which it was manufactured. We would have tried it if the cost wasn’t great to buy them all and test them out one by one. Our best bet is just to wait until we have access to university utilities. Therefore to test our hypothesis above, it will only be confirmed to be true/false if we access the right equipment. The problem now is that I have to wait for years. But I’m not discouraged as I believe in the soundness of scientific reasoning.
@Everyone - I honestly understand why doctors can’t understand our condition and they’re partially right. It’s primarily because it’s a weird condition. For example, it took me months to convince my lab technician that his allergies are caused by me. Even now he’s still not sure but as soon as we meet his coughing and sneezing starts to pick up but the usual headaches have improved though. Due to the strangeness of the disease, physicians aren’t willing to even spend time to test thoroughly before theorizing. Therefore they’ve concluded on a theory without even thoroughly testing. In science such theories are considered hypothesis too because it’s not based on evidence but on supposition based on past experiences, and while it works in most cases, it will fail on rare cases, such as ours.
Their hypothesis is standing on lose ground as ours and the validity of either one can only be confirmed through proper experimentation, and not assumptions. TMAU patients are happy now but medical doctors and psychologists once proclaimed them as mental patients, retards for years before it was discovered by scientists that physicians & psychologists were damn wrong despite their strong self-confidence. Now both TMAU patients and doctors are aware of TMAU and they’re both happy but it wasn’t like that in the past. And all that fuss was caused by not carrying out proper experimentation. The sad part for us patmers, it appears no one is going to accidently discover this any time soon, we have to do it ourselves, so quit feeling sorry for yourself and enroll in the nearest community college and start on your journey..lol. It’s either that or risk being oppressed and also called by others a retard for the rest of your life.
@grateful2011 - Thank you for the great information and encouragement.
Want to say that I have been on a plant based diet and taking supplements that have been mentioned here and some that I researched but always being careful not to over do it. I did find out that in my case, I cannot eat anything that is cooked/fried in oil and it doesn't matter if it's just vegetables. I tried all different types of cooking oil's and they all made my patm reactions re-surface. Also, eating any type of nuts like pecans/cashews/almonds/peanuts that are high in fat and cholesterol, exasperated this bacteria that is living inside of us. As soon as I eliminated all of the above mentioned, I had no more reactions. Still eating fresh vegetables but I either boil them or eat them raw. Will continue to experiment.
I want to confirm with you that you are 100% PATM free with the diet that you are on? Have to tried experimenting by introducing wheat, pasta or protein to your diet? If so, did your PATM reactions come back?
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