What's your ideal diet for PATM?

[Smellyorus]

I've seen some differing views on what helps PATM the most regarding diet. Some use the candida diet, some prefer an entirely veggie diet.

I'm thinking about going veggie along with SB, Restore, and Jarrow Brown Rice Protein Powder. I've used all of these individually in the past without results but never in conjunction with a strict diet (the strictest I got was gluten free, dairy free). I'm unsure about the following foods: rice/brown rice, potatoes, nuts. Any input on these?

[da16424]

Eating dairy free and gluten free doesn't have to be that difficult. Yes, it is counter to the typical Western diet, but many large grocery stores now have entire isles dedicated to gluten-free and dairy free products. Doing this has helped me immensely, more than probiotics and Restore, honestly. Even if you don't have much money, you can buy certified gluten-free corn tortillas for like less than 1 USD. Many cuisines have dishes that are naturally gluten free, Indian, Mexican, Mediterranean are good places to look. If you get a decent rice cooker, the diet isn't awful. The only time I break this diet is when I get pressured into drinking games and stupid crap like that, which you come to expect as a uni student.  

Blueberry powder and activated charcoal are health related products that aid gut permeability. You can make smoothies and slip them in. I like pea protein powder and flax seed in fruit smoothies.

In terms of the vegetarian diet, I'm sure that it has benefits - but I could never commit to that. Nor do I fully commit to the low sugar diet. IMO, you can only cut so much out of your diet so you have to play around and see what works for you. There's a good website channel called Nadia's Healthy Kitchen which has all vegan and gluten-free recipes, mainly desserts. They're pretty quick, I actually used her banana bread recipe today.    

nadiashealthykitchen.com

If there is one thing not to eat - at least for me - it's dairy. It doesn't have even be straight dairy, I can eat baked products with dairy in them and people with start sniffling and rubbing their noses almost instantly. I'm not sure if its a gut permeability issue, a hormonal issue, or what, but dairy sets off PATM like no other. Some people say you can digest kefir or organic yogurt if dairy doesn't agree with you, but it really doesn't make a difference for me.

I went to the doctor on Saturday and took labs for gluten-allergy, dairy-allergy, and lactose intolerance, so I'm anxiously awaiting those results. IMO, it didn't always used to be like this - I used to eat everything pre-PATM with no trouble. Obviously PATM has made my digestive system incredibly fragile for one reason or another.

BTW, really pay attention to what ray2502 and dontgiveuphope say regarding this topic because they have obviously researched this. I know a lot about asset management and tax policy but I can hardly interpret scientific literature. Good luck at uni, I'm entering my second year.

[mindspace]

da16424 To be on low sugar diet is easy.When you want to eat sugar instead of this eat fruits.For me that works.I eat watermelon,melon,peach,apricot,sometimes grapes and all the berries.And that doesn't increase PATM reactions.

[Smellyorus]

Thanks for the advice. I stayed at uni for 2 days for orientation, and I noticed that many of the foods like fried chicken have dairy. It'll be a tough balance.

[dontgiveuphope]

@da16424, thanks for the compliment. It’s good to see there are many academics around. I really wanted to get into business and accounting at one point, but this PATM crap limited my options. I had to take the sciences because I thought at the time it was easily solvable.

I agree with Ray2502 about vitamin D and have proved it to myself on the last few days. Ray told me what he went through and we didn’t know why his PATM disappeared after overdosing on vitamin D. I just typed vitamin D and tight-junctions (TJs) into google-scholar and damn, a whole list of research came up proving its efficacy in tightening the tight junctions.

Combining these ingredients to act on gut lining, especially the TJs, seems to be the best practice. We need however to look at the products first before mixing them otherwise it could have an adverse chemical reaction. For instance, taking probiotics that rely on acid for activation is not good to take together with Restore – should be taken at different times.

We need a list of the best products that helps maintain gut lining integrity. I’ve provided a list but there’s always something out there that we don’t know about. If someone finds something that increases the integrity of the Tight Junction, please add them into our forum.

[dontgiveuphope]

I think what's obvious now is what seals tight-junctions shut is the optimal thing to do. The more the better. I think the amino-acid degradation; we aren't sure if it applies to us yet.

Anything that shuts tight-junction is good. I've mixed Vitamin-D3 (>4000 IU) as shown by ray2502, 3 strains with maximum teer, zinc and SB with amazing results. Zinc to seal tight junction but I feel slightly funny using it. If it’s OK with you, it’s good. When I took them all together, it was amazing.

Restore will have to be taken alone 6 hours before or later because any product that relies on stomach acid won't work well with restore because Restore is slightly basic (alkaline). This product is great. If you eating a lot of vegetables take restore with it.

Vitamin B2 is very very good but only take it in winter. It makes you hot as hell.

Quercetin is good for the TJ too.

Brown Rice Protein Powder, Desiccated Liver are also good. This is why I'm skeptical that aromatic amino acid degradation applies to us.

All of the above forces the integrity of tight junctions, when taken together it’s a kick. Anything that will seal the gut tight junction is good. When you take them, you can go overdose on many. We should look for more of this. If you feel a slight pain in the gut, there’s one that is not good for you, for me it was the zinc. Remove that. When taken you should feel a relief in your gut.

Anything that opens up tight junctions or harsh on epithelial cells should be avoided. This includes, coffee, alcohol, gluten food, sugar, dairy etc.…any food that is harsh on the gut is likely bad. Just go to google scholar or just ordinary search engines and look up food or medication that seals tight-junction shut. Also look up bad food and medications.

There’s still one I’m waiting for; it’s called “Larazotide”. It’s an engineered 8 amino-acid peptides designed to seal the gut. I want to take it with my existing list. Perhaps it will come during your time at university. Watch out for more products as companies make more in the future. I believe our problems will be treated in the future with some kind of revolutionary product that just shuts up the tight junctions no matter what or just oral enzymes to replace the bad ones. It will be a treatment, meaning we’ll have to take it all the time.

I believe there are still more stuff out that enforces TJ integrity but we still haven’t come across. It’s best when taken together with the others. For instance, it has been proven scientifically that taking certain probiotics together with Vitamin D and Vitamin A really seals up the Gut. Get Vitamin A. Not all vitamins have benefit on TJ so don’t get multivitamins for that purpose, it’s not going to work.

[Smellyorus]

I'm having trouble finding a probiotic with the 3 specific strains you keep mentioning. Would you mind telling me the name of the product you use?

[dontgiveuphope]

@StuffySmell
Yes, and I’m happy to help you with that @StuffySmell. These 3 strains were known to have more TEER than all the rest that were tested against and CONTROL. Those are the top three. You can find the paper on google scholar. They are ranked like the picture below. I guess the companies just selected the top 3 and made a product out of it. When taken with Vitamin D & Saccharomyces boulardii (SB), it’s amazing. I’d take 6 pills of 3-Strains, 5 of SB, 5-7 Vitamin D. You can take Zinc to see if you can tolerate it. Zinc Gluconate doesn’t seem to work well with how I feel. I’m ordering Zinc Glycinate in case Gluconate isn’t too good for me.

https://images.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/srep/2016/160111/srep19200/images_hires/srep19200-f5.jpg

I can find two products on the internet with these. They marketed as good for the immunity which is true. Anything that seals the gut will also increase the immunity because 70% of our immunity is at the gut. https://au.iherb.com/pr/FutureBiotics-Longest-Living-Acidophilus-100-Veggie-Caps/7330
The other version from the same company is not stabilized, probably the strains died.

I heard this one is even better. http://biogrow.com.my/index.php/catalogue/probiotics/probiotics-2b-detail
Not sure so you’ll have to check for yourself because I’ve never tried it. I searched it and it’s more expensive. I didn’t have the money so I just bought the furturebiotics one.

3-Strains Probiotics
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Bifidobacterium longum

[Smellyorus]

So you do recommend taking more than the recommended dose for these products? SB I'll buy the Jarrow Formula ones. For Vitamin D what's the IU you take each day?

[dontgiveuphope]

“So you do recommend taking more than the recommended dose for these products?”

LOL… yes I did. It was done to see if Ray was right even though I was scared. He’s right. You’ll to weight and balance what you what though. Btw, even though expert say 4000 IU should be the theoretical limit, it hasn’t established officially. There are people who go on 20000 – 50000 IU dose per day. I wouldn’t recommend that though.

“ SB I'll buy the Jarrow Formula ones. For Vitamin D what's the IU you take each day?”

I take 4000-7000 IU. I get most of my stuff from iherb because it’s fast and not expensive but some products I can’t find there so I’d get it elsewhere.

I hope one day, you can come back and teach me something new, or maybe engineer the artificial enzyme that we need. It’s not hard though even today but we don’t have the money to pay scientists to do it. I’ll be an old man by the time you get to your PH.D

[dontgiveuphope]

Sorry for the many spelling mistakes. I've been up for so long...should be "You’ll have to weight and balance what you want though."

[Smellyorus]

Thanks again for the help. PHD is definitely the goal but so much can change in 4-8 years time. Not sure between researcher or practitioner which is the best path to pursue.

[dontgiveuphope]

You can do it. Yeah, you'll change your mind on a lot of things as you go along but you'll do well.

[ray2502]

If you want to eat red meat/chicken/fish and have no PATM reactions, make sure you eat meat that is free of antibiotics, hormones, process and you should have no problems eating and enjoying it. Don't buy the cheapest stuff cause you will get what you paid for. I get my groceries from Traders Joe's they have a large selection of everything and it doesn't upset my stomach.

ONLY GRASS FED MEAT!!

[Smellyorus]

Alright thanks ray, I think I'll have to go vegetarian in college, can't trust their meat.

[dontgiveuphope]

I agree 100%

[ray2502]

TJs form a paracellular seal
Epithelial cells are networked together through proteinaceous adhesive contacts called junctions, which both join cells together and provide a paracellular seal. The seal between cells requires tight junctions (TJs), a specialized multipurpose adhesion that simultaneously occludes the paracellular space, dictates ion flux across the tissue, and maintains cellular polarity. The TJs are positioned at the boundary of the apical and lateral membrane surfaces of adjacent epithelial cells in the colon and consist of 5–7 membrane fusion sites called “kissing points” [46, 47]. The entire circumference of each cell is joined to apposing cells via an adhesive TJ band, called a strand. TJ strands in the colon are not linear but rather highly branched structures that form anastomosed webs that extend several hundred nanometers laterally from the apex of the cell. All epithelial cells that line the intestine are joined in this manner.

TJs regulate the flux of ions and solutes on the one hand, termed the “gate function,” and maintain cell polarity on the other, termed the “fence function” [48, 49]. Thus, TJs serve as a barrier to bacteria and bacterial products while also corralling apical plasma membrane proteins, and presumably the glycocalyx mucins, at the lumen-facing domain of the epithelial cell.

The claudin family proteins are essential components of TJs. Claudins form TJ strands by polymerizing within the plasma membrane and dimerizing with claudins on apposing cells, across the extracellular space, to generate the paracellular seal. There are 24 claudin genes in humans, with multiple claudins expressed within any given cell [50]. Importantly, several claudin proteins dimerize to form charge and size-selective ion pores that are vital for ionic homeostasis in epithelial tissues. For example, mice deficient in both claudin 2 and 15 mice fail to equilibrate sodium levels in the luminal space of the small bowel, which leads to low nutrient absorption, wasting disease, and premature death [51]. Other claudins, such as claudin 4, appear to promote a tighter seal; claudin 4 does not form ion pores within the TJ but appears to exclude pore-forming claudin 2 [52]. The permeability of the TJ is thought to derive at least in part from the relative amounts of amounts of pore forming or sealing claudins within the stands, as well as the architecture of the strands, particularly the complexity and numbers of TJ strands [49, 53].

Different complements of claudins are expressed at different levels in epithelia along the length of the intestinal tract, as well as within the intestinal crypts themselves [52] (Fig. 1). For example, our recent studies in mice indicate that 11 claudins are expressed as a gradient within the crypts (Fig. 1) [54]. In general, “leaky” pore forming claudins are restricted to the colonic crypt base, whereas “tight” sealing claudins are more prominently expressed in surface cells facing the lumen.

At the molecular level, the TJ is a highly diverse structure composed of both transmembrane and cytoplasmic proteins [55, 56]. Besides claudins, there exist three additional classes of transmembrane proteins in the TJ: occludin, tricellulin, and junctional adhesion molecules (JAMs) [53, 57, 58, 59]. A dense “plaque” of scaffolding molecules is anchored to the transmembrane proteins, which include the Zonula Occludins (ZO) and MAGUK family proteins (reviewed in [49]). These scaffolding proteins link the transmembrane proteins to kinases and signaling molecules that localize at the junction. These molecules in turn control not only cell-cell contacts but also the actin polymerization machinery and contractility apparatus of apically situated actin and myosin [49, 60]. Scaffold proteins have different affinities for claudins and may regulate the types of claudins in the TJs [61]. Likewise, the contractile machinery appears to regulate localization of claudins within the TJs [62, 63, 64, 65]. In summary, this molecular signaling apparatus controls claudin localization and function, and thus the permeability of the epithelial barrier.

[ray2502]

In addition to forming ion pores, claudin strands have a poorly understood mechanism that permits small molecules to traverse the TJ, termed the paracellular “leak pathway” [66, 67, 68]. There is accumulating evidence that TJ strands themselves are dynamic and frequently break, reform, and exchange claudin proteins in response to physiological, environmental, and pathogenic stimuli [52, 63]. However, it remains to be established whether the paracellular leakage results from separation of transcellular dimers, strand breakage, or some other unknown mechanism. Interestingly, several pathogens, including both bacteria and viruses, have evolved means to traverse the paracellular junctions by disrupting claudins, or the actin structures that provide structural integrity to the cell and the TJs (reviewed in [69]). For example, the bacterium Clostridium perfringes secretes a toxin that binds claudins 3 and 4, whereas Hepatitis C virus interacts with claudin 1 [69]. In summary, the composition and numbers of the TJ strands, the type of claudins that compose them, their localization within the intestinal tract, and the intracellular signaling apparatus all contribute to the permeability of the intestinal barrier.

Several lines of evidence implicate dysregulation of the mucosal barrier, and of TJ architecture and claudin expression in particular, in the etiology of IBD [47, 70]. GWAS studies have identified several genes that link TJ function to IBD [2, 71]. Of the IBD implicated genes, one of the best understood is hepatocyte nuclear factor alpha (HNF4a) [72]. HNF4a is a transcription factor involved in the maturation of colonocytes as they migrate out of the crypts. HNF4a regulates claudin expression, including claudin 7 [73]. Moreover, multiple studies have demonstrated a change in TJ transmembrane proteins in IBD patients. Tricellulin, a specialized occludin-like molecule responsible for sealing the TJ at tricellular contacts, is decreased in UC [74, 75]. Moreover, expression of the sealing claudins 1 and 4 is suppressed in IBD patients [70, 76]. Furthermore, upregulation of claudin 2 expression and downregulation of claudin 5 and 8 correlate with barrier dysfunction and active CD [77]. A more comprehensive review of the TJ and TJ-associated proteins dysregulated in IBD can be found elsewhere [75, 78, 79].

Disease phenotypes of human IBD are recapitulated in mice with genetic deficiencies similar to those found in human patients and confirm the importance of altering TJs and barrier integrity in IBD pathogenesis. For example, mice deficient in claudin 7 in the colon develop lethal colitis soon after birth [80, 81]. Notably, based on freeze fracture EM analysis, TJs of wild type and claudin 7 knockout animals have nearly identical structure, yet the character and function of the TJ appears compromised. Without claudin 7, the epithelial barrier is more permeant to small molecules (~400 Da), although the flux of larger molecules (~4 kDa) and the overall balance of Na+ and Cl− were unchanged [80]. Therefore, claudin 7 appears to function to selectively regulate permeability of small molecules, and its dyregulation is sufficient to cause disease. The observation that loss of claudin 7 disrupts the TJ seal raised the possibility that this claudin might also limit flux of bacterial antigens. Accordingly, antibiotics ameliorated colitis in mice with claudin 7 deficiency, whereas addition of bacterial antigen (fMLF) reversed this protective effect [80]. Together, these data support a model of IBD pathogenesis in which dysregulation of TJs facilitates leakage of luminal antigens across the epithelial barrier that trigger inflammation and initiate colitis. Master regulators of claudin expression have also been implicated in mouse models of IBD. As in humans, Hnf4a regulates expression of claudin genes in mice [82, 83]. Accordingly, loss of function alleles of Hnf4a in mice results in dysregulation of claudin expression and spontaneous colitis [84].

[dontgiveuphope]

Thanks ray, exactly. I realized that some on our forum members don't really understand what tight-junctions (TJ) are and what they do so I agree ray2502 that this is something that should have been explained first…perhaps this is an opportunity to explain with more visualization.

I’ll make as simple as possible, it may not be correctly scientifically but it’s easier to understand that way. Think of cells as brick or tiles in a bathroom. We want to cement them together so water and whatever doesn’t leak through the edges of the combined bricks. The cement that joins it is the TJs.

Only in real life we have one cells lining all the way throughout our gut separating the food mix and the body. So these one-cell lining is like a brick wall that protects everything that is not wanted to go through. Everything however should diffuse through the one cell linings itself, but not through the gaps between the cells. The gaps are sealed tight by proteins that intertwines or sews the cell edges together. Look at the picture of the cells edges. The green beads like proteins are called Tight-Junction proteins. It’s a combination of proteins that makes these threads that knits the cells together in the gut.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Cellular_tight_junction-en.svg

What MeBO is saying, at the end of the day after failure of gut enzymes, these threads are worn and torn so there are gaps or holes (not the right term but easier to understand) between the cells. This allows all kind of smelly, irritant compounds into the bloodstream of the body. Supposedly our allergic compound gets out from the gut to the bloodstream this way.

[ray2502]

Hello da16424,

I would definitely add vitamin d supplements to your diet cause your probably vitamin d deficient due to dairy intolerance. I would have some lab tests run to see where my levels are at. Good luck in school.

[Smellyorus]

Also eggs. Not sure how that one is for PATM.

[dontgiveuphope]

"I'm really confused why intestinal permeability is an accepted term in scholarly articles yet doctors don't believe in it. I've read too many instances of doctors saying, "leaky gut isn't real, that's pseudoscience."

Actually intestinal permeability was discovered by the scientific community. All of biology and medicine understand it. Short version is “gut permeability”. It’s sometimes called “leaky gut” but that’s not a formal term. “Leaky gut Syndrome” is different and doesn’t exist.

However, “alternative medicine” and “nutritionists” people, since they’re not real doctors or medicine people because they don’t study chemistry and very little understudying of biology & medicine, have hijacked and coined the term “leaky gut syndrome” purportedly a new condition.  They listed a group of symptoms supposedly to be the result of leaky gut and gave it a syndrome name. For instance, suppose one would say if you have a severe headache on the back of your head and feel anxiety and left thumb is throbbing, this means you have leakygut syndrome and here is the cure for it. While it has no proof, it sells and this sometimes angers the medical community…hahaha. I think it’s for two reason, “alternative medicine” people are selling BS and second coz they’re earning big money from it…lol.

If intestinal permeability (leakygut) wasn’t real, it wouldn’t be on academic peer reviewed journal sites, especially medical journals. These journals were made by scientists - doctors, biologist, biochemists, chemists etc. Most of the things I paste are academic peer reviewed journals. The only time I come to the web is to grab some pictures or things that I can’t get on academic journal website.

So if you hear a doctor say he doesn’t believe in leakygut, he’s actually referring to leakygut syndrome. So if we say to a doctor, we’re sick because of leakygut syndrome…those are the things that aren’t well established and in most cases will not believe it or have heard it before.
But if you hear a doctor that doesn’t believe gut permeability happens in real life, punch him in the head and find a real doctor because obviously he didn’t go to medical school at all.

[Smellyorus]

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

[Smellyorus]

It's really confusing reading stuff like the GAPS diet and realizing that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with intestinal permeability. A compiled list of bad and good foods for intestinal permeability, based on scholarly articles, would be useful. I know you mentioned this.

[dontgiveuphope]

Yes you're right @Smellyorus, all academics shouldn’t look at anything other than academic journals. That’s the end of road for searching real information. Wikipedia and other unofficial sources reference academic journals but if they don’t, the right way to think is, their opinion is as good as ours, it’s all a guess.

Normally information that goes around the internet are information that some dude got from academic papers and summarized it in some newspaper, article, social media site etc. and it gets passed on to another person that modifies it and passed along.

This is why it’s consistently taught in university that we should always look for an academic journal for facts.

[dontgiveuphope]

Remember intestinal permeability was known for a while but there hasn’t been any solid relationship between it and any diseases. This is why the leakygut syndrome is considered a heresy. Most of us know there is a connection but science is about evidence.

This is why diets are not talking about intestinal permeability because it’s only important if there’s a disease associated with leakygut.

[Jon3456]

Healing the gut it a long process. Have been under glutamine and bone broth for 2 months now. My bloating has reduced though

Dontgiveuphope that would be great as a reference since all of us must be having a leaky gut to a certain extent. Besides food, maybe even some supplements might impair the healing process. I read somewhere that doing a colon hydrotherapy session with baking soda would help. I'll probably try this

[dontgiveuphope]

Hey Jon3456, thanks for the compliment. Yeah, my list is a little bit long since I’ve accumulated it for a while and even faster now.

About the hydrotherapy, it’s really no different from an enema with an alkaline solution of pH 9. One of the things that most alternative medicine dr never think about is, what’s the purpose of the intended treatment/cure. If it’s to clean microbes, ph 9 solution will give microbes a party. It’s wouldn’t do anything.

If it’s to clean out feces, the intestine can do a better job because it has evolved to perfect the job through millions of years of evolution. The best we can do is drink the water and let the body regulate pumping what it needs to the colon if it needed it. Just throwing in what I think about hydrotherapy.

[dontgiveuphope]

Just found out that Capsaicin (chilli) increases gut permeability. That sucks.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0079954

[Smellyorus]

So does paprika, cayenne and sweet pepper. Interestingly, I haven't read anything on meat.

[dontgiveuphope]

Yeah, sucks coz I like a little of bit chilli.

[dontgiveuphope]

I'm trying to compile a list of all the good things that worked for leakygut and addons. Also a list of the bad compounds for leakygut or feeds gut microbes.