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How to get the trust back, let down my wall & move forward
I have been with my fiance for 6 years. We got engaged after 3 years of dating. He started having an affair while planning our wedding. During his affair I had become pregnant and had our son. This affair continued until I caught them. This affair lasted almost 2 years and it was caught when our son was 9 months old. After I found out, he begged and pleaded for another chance, even asked for counseling. We've been in counseling for 7 months now and things have been going really good. He ended the affair with her and she I believe has been moving on with her life. Supposedly she is dating, found her on a dating website and even did a little investigating of my own to see that she is moving on. I feel that they don't speak anymore. I want it to work but here are my issues. 1. I feel like I am obsessed with keeping tabs on this other woman to make sure she is definitely moving on. I have such angst towards this woman and don't know how to let go of my anger towards her. She knew about me the entire time and she knew about our son which boils my blood. I don't believe I got full closure on that situation by telling her exactly how I feel about her. I most likely will never get that closure but don't know how to let it go. 2. I have such anger towards him, that I don't know how to let it go. Everytime we argue I throw digs at him and basically throw the affair in his face. Which makes things worse. He doesn't even think of her and I probably think of her more than him. 3. My wall is up so high and I fear to let my guard down because of fear that the rug will be ripped from under my feet. Everytime he is nice to me, I am on this ultimate high and when he isn't up my butt or text messaging me sweet nothings I get anxious and start to think he's cheating on me or reverting back to his old ways where he didn't put forth effort into the relationship. During the affair he disconnected himself from me and our son. How do I move forward from here?
Hi Dr. P,
We are still in this bad place. Sometimes he is in a good mood and sometimes he isn't. He asked his sister if he could stay with her for a while and she said only for a week. He was supposed to leave today but when I asked him this morning what time he was leaving, he just snapped at me and said he didn't know what he wanted to do. He's not doing too well at work, his clientele is almost down to nothing and he's bringing almost no money home. He's frustrated that we are always broke and instead of leaning on me for support he's pushing me away and now we not only have financial issues we have relationship ones as well because he doesn't know how to deal with anything. I told him if he stays he has to work on our relationship and try to put effort in. Stop having a thousand mood swings and just try to be positive. If he can't do it or doesn't want to do it, then he has to leave. I can't keep being in limbo with our relationship. The break isn't a break-up but just gives us some space from each other. It's not what I want at all but I'm tired of feeling like I can't say anything without him getting annoyed with me. I don't want to have to work around someone elses moods all of the time. I want him to stay but I want to be treated right. Do you think I should let him stay and just not talk about our relationship and ride it out? Or do you think I should tell him to leave and let him figure things out on his own? I know breaks are not the best thing to do in a relationship but I just don't know what else to do. Please help.
We are still in this bad place. Sometimes he is in a good mood and sometimes he isn't. He asked his sister if he could stay with her for a while and she said only for a week. He was supposed to leave today but when I asked him this morning what time he was leaving, he just snapped at me and said he didn't know what he wanted to do. He's not doing too well at work, his clientele is almost down to nothing and he's bringing almost no money home. He's frustrated that we are always broke and instead of leaning on me for support he's pushing me away and now we not only have financial issues we have relationship ones as well because he doesn't know how to deal with anything. I told him if he stays he has to work on our relationship and try to put effort in. Stop having a thousand mood swings and just try to be positive. If he can't do it or doesn't want to do it, then he has to leave. I can't keep being in limbo with our relationship. The break isn't a break-up but just gives us some space from each other. It's not what I want at all but I'm tired of feeling like I can't say anything without him getting annoyed with me. I don't want to have to work around someone elses moods all of the time. I want him to stay but I want to be treated right. Do you think I should let him stay and just not talk about our relationship and ride it out? Or do you think I should tell him to leave and let him figure things out on his own? I know breaks are not the best thing to do in a relationship but I just don't know what else to do. Please help.
Thanks Dr. P. We had a huge blowout last night because he wanted to work security overnight. I have barely seen him in like 3 days and I didn't want him to, then there is the trust, which comes secondary to me wanting just to fall asleep in his arms and have more than a 5 minute conversation with him. We need the money so he was mad that he couldn't work it. Well he's acting just like you said by telling me next time he's not going to ask, he's just going to do. I wish I had read what you wrote last night. Perhaps we could've avoided this argument. He continued to tell me that I need to let the past go but I had a fling in Cancun right before I met him. I was single at the time, was on vacation with my friends so it happened. But he completely used to throw it in my face, my mistake when we met we kind of talked about our past and now I know that was a bad idea. He found my pics from Cancun one day and threw them out, he always throws it in my face and basically never wants to vacation in Cancun because of my tiny fling that lasted 2 days and was never any type of meaningful relationship. He tells me to let go of the 2 years he cheated on me while in our relationship, while we planned our wedding, while I was pregnant, while I gave birth to our son but yet he won't let go of something I did before I met him. So he called me a "s l u t" and basically I won't allow anyone to disrespect me like that because I know I'm not. So I told him to pack his sh!t and get out of our house today. So I get a text from him apologizing for saying that to me. I told him that we need to breathe because this is getting out of hand. I won't bother him anymore about the job and we need to take a step back because this is getting bad. I just don't know how to get out of this "rough patch", it seems to be getting worse and worse. We have therapy on Sunday, I just don't want to ruin this relationship so bad that there is no coming back from it.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear Mami,
You might actually be in therapy for a while, if not years. But so what? Your work will be done when it's done. No sooner. So the important thing is that you create a climate in which you, and he for that matter, can get better and grow up.
I agree that what's “sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander” as they say. But that's surface stuff. Each of you will test the relationship, and assume that the other person is the “real” problem. If you have PTSD, get at it. Resist the temptation to push him away and blow up your relationship to divert yourself from the real work (you by driving him nuts with your anxiety and clinginess, him by cheating). Same for him.
By the way, that's what people do! We'll do almost anything before we'll deal straight with our emotional lives. Unconsciously, we experience them as alligators, and avoid them at all costs.
If you need meds for a while, that's fine. Whatever helps you keep doing the right thing.
if I were you, I'd cash in all the control stuff with him, whether it's from your side or his. Free yourselves to do what you want. Ultimately, nobody can control anyone. Attempts to do so, even if you feel righteous about something such as your man’s affair, will only result in the other person “showing” that he or she can't be controlled. This could be with withdrawal of affection, sexual acting out, not doing the laundry, disappearing, etc. Whatever really pisses off the other person. Make an agreement that neither of you will take this route. Also, if possible, that you won't account for his movements, and he won't bed other women.
If you can't make this kind of deal, my guess is you'll split. Better to glue yourself to your therapist, meds, friends, any and everyone in your circle who can help you withstand the anxiety, and see where things go. Why? Freedom causes people to deal straight with themselves, do their work. They're depriving themselves of the avoidance of the issues which they chronically achieve through the conflict with the spouse.
That's a GOOD thing. But you have to have the cojones. My bet is that you do!
Regards,
Dr. P.
You might actually be in therapy for a while, if not years. But so what? Your work will be done when it's done. No sooner. So the important thing is that you create a climate in which you, and he for that matter, can get better and grow up.
I agree that what's “sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander” as they say. But that's surface stuff. Each of you will test the relationship, and assume that the other person is the “real” problem. If you have PTSD, get at it. Resist the temptation to push him away and blow up your relationship to divert yourself from the real work (you by driving him nuts with your anxiety and clinginess, him by cheating). Same for him.
By the way, that's what people do! We'll do almost anything before we'll deal straight with our emotional lives. Unconsciously, we experience them as alligators, and avoid them at all costs.
If you need meds for a while, that's fine. Whatever helps you keep doing the right thing.
if I were you, I'd cash in all the control stuff with him, whether it's from your side or his. Free yourselves to do what you want. Ultimately, nobody can control anyone. Attempts to do so, even if you feel righteous about something such as your man’s affair, will only result in the other person “showing” that he or she can't be controlled. This could be with withdrawal of affection, sexual acting out, not doing the laundry, disappearing, etc. Whatever really pisses off the other person. Make an agreement that neither of you will take this route. Also, if possible, that you won't account for his movements, and he won't bed other women.
If you can't make this kind of deal, my guess is you'll split. Better to glue yourself to your therapist, meds, friends, any and everyone in your circle who can help you withstand the anxiety, and see where things go. Why? Freedom causes people to deal straight with themselves, do their work. They're depriving themselves of the avoidance of the issues which they chronically achieve through the conflict with the spouse.
That's a GOOD thing. But you have to have the cojones. My bet is that you do!
Regards,
Dr. P.
I've already begun to push him away Dr. P. He has even said recently that maybe it's best if we take a break and that he doesn't want to have to answer to me like a child. It got so bad that I left one night and stayed at my friend's house. He realized how much he missed me and our son but we are still struggling. He went to dinner with a "friend" the other night and stayed out later just to "test" me to see if I would call or text him and I didn't. After that he said he would try harder because he believes we can work on things. I feel really angry about his so called "test". I'm not the problem in the relationship to be tested. I never strayed from it, it is unfair of him to just think he can come and go whenever he pleases without checking in with me. I'm not trying to monitor him, but I feel like I should know what time he plans on coming home from work or where he is going. I'm his fiance and I'm left with his child. He expects the same from me so why is it ok for me to tell him everything and him not tell me anything. It's so hard to manipulate my mind to say, he really is out with a friend and he really is working late, without it going back to the years of cheating. Last night he came in late, I went to bed but hadn't heard from him and he wound up texting me, which I didn't see until this morning that sorry I am late, I should have called. I don't know what I should be thinking. My suspicious mind goes back to the familiar feeling of when he was cheating and questioning whether he's still doing it but then I wonder if it's just my insecurities. Either way, I'm exhausted, part of me wants to run away and the other part of me loves this man to death and wants to fight for our family. I'm so afraid of being betrayed again, it overwhelms me and doesn't allow me to enjoy my life, but I'm so deeply sad with the thoughts of not being with him. Our therapist thinks I have post traumatic stress disorder and I may need some anti-anxiety meds but I really don't know how to trust him again. I'm sure we will be in therapy for years and years and years.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear Mami,
You're very welcome!
Just remember that there's a paradox here: the more you try to run from your shared past, the more it will follow you. Conversely, the more you allow yourselves to see, consciously experience, and then deal with the enormous influence these two father ghosts have had on you, and continue to have, the more quickly their influence will diminish. And the sooner you will be free.
With respect and good wishes to you and your family,
Dr. P.
You're very welcome!
Just remember that there's a paradox here: the more you try to run from your shared past, the more it will follow you. Conversely, the more you allow yourselves to see, consciously experience, and then deal with the enormous influence these two father ghosts have had on you, and continue to have, the more quickly their influence will diminish. And the sooner you will be free.
With respect and good wishes to you and your family,
Dr. P.
Thank you Dr. P. Yes, we have touched upon these issues in counseling. I know all too well how our past can effect our future. I think we both are struggling with trying to be a strong family for our son and trying to move past all the hurt and anger. He's frustrated because I can't let it go and I'm frustrated because I can't let it go. We're not in a happy place at all. We've talked of taking a break for some space but I think that will only hinder our progress since I will be wondering what he is doing and he will probably do whatever he wants to do without any thoughts to our relationship. At times he says he feels like a kid with me because of me constantly asking what he's doing and where he's going and having to check in. I hate being like that, I wish I did have that trust back.
I believe you are correct, we both have terrible male role models. All I know is the love is there, on both ends. We just need to get past all the bs and make it to a good place. I hope at some point I can learn to control my need for constant attention and I hope he can be faithful to me and our son. I know that I don't ask for much, just a man who will be a good father, a best friend to me, to show love and affection and to be commited and faithful. I don't think that is a lot to expect.
Thank you again, you have given me a lot to work with.
I believe you are correct, we both have terrible male role models. All I know is the love is there, on both ends. We just need to get past all the bs and make it to a good place. I hope at some point I can learn to control my need for constant attention and I hope he can be faithful to me and our son. I know that I don't ask for much, just a man who will be a good father, a best friend to me, to show love and affection and to be commited and faithful. I don't think that is a lot to expect.
Thank you again, you have given me a lot to work with.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Note misprint:
Third paragraph from the bottom should read " couples GROUP."
DR. P.
Third paragraph from the bottom should read " couples GROUP."
DR. P.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear Mami
Ok, now you've given me the information to work with. This will be brief and to the point.
What you've done is what most of us with unfinished business do: you've found someone to reproduce your issues from your childhood. Welcome to the club! We're actors in eachother's dramas.Your man’s father was abusive, a cheat, and an abandoner. So he has only negative models. He's probably doing the best he can, but it hasn't been enough, and who knows, might not be in the future. You match his experience perfectly: You were also abandoned and grew up without a loving man of the family. So NATURALLY you find each other. This is what we do, find people who incarnate our issues from our families, in one way or the other. This is torture, or, if we deal with it, a terrific opportunity to master what we went through and grow past it. But of course it's very hard, since we inevitably run into exactly the same issues we had as kids. You're the girl and your mother. He's his father and his father’s son.
He's no doubt struggling to not be the bad guy his father was. And you're left being demanding due to your enormous need for affection and reassurance. Each of you is struggling to heal the breach, meet in the middle. It will take serious work to do it. But is suspect you're up to it!
To make it happen, each of you, separately and together, needs to realize all this, that you're reading from a script. If you do, you'll stop and communicate about it, and shut down the automatic actions, you the demandingness, him the tendency to fade out of the family and find another woman, for no rational reason (yes, men get turned off their women during pregnancy as the hormones shift and attention turns away to the baby, but that doesn't explain everything). Remember, for each of you, doing these things are as natural as breathing! Of course you'll still have the feelings for a while; it's the actions you can control. The feelings will follow later.
So understand: it's not about the affair. It's not about the other woman. It's about the replay of your early lives that the two of you are doing.
If you haven't done so already, I urge you to take these ideas into your counseling sessions. They're pure gold for you!
However, there's more to do. No amount of understanding or insight can make up for experience that isn't there. Neither of you understands what it's like to live in a stable man-woman family. It will take years to get you there.
To move the process along, I urge you to consider getting into an ongoing couples grow up with an excellent and experienced therapist. I ran one for over a decade, and can assure you that it's incredibly helpful in situations like yours. Couples support and stabilize each other, and, importantly, teach each other about the things they've missed. It works because everyone missed different things.
In any case, get these core issues out front and communicated between you, work them every day, in every context, and both of you will heal and grow into your own lives. I know, I've seen people do it.
You may also want to consider sharing our interchange with your man. It would be a good jumping off point.
Best regards,
Dr. P.
Ok, now you've given me the information to work with. This will be brief and to the point.
What you've done is what most of us with unfinished business do: you've found someone to reproduce your issues from your childhood. Welcome to the club! We're actors in eachother's dramas.Your man’s father was abusive, a cheat, and an abandoner. So he has only negative models. He's probably doing the best he can, but it hasn't been enough, and who knows, might not be in the future. You match his experience perfectly: You were also abandoned and grew up without a loving man of the family. So NATURALLY you find each other. This is what we do, find people who incarnate our issues from our families, in one way or the other. This is torture, or, if we deal with it, a terrific opportunity to master what we went through and grow past it. But of course it's very hard, since we inevitably run into exactly the same issues we had as kids. You're the girl and your mother. He's his father and his father’s son.
He's no doubt struggling to not be the bad guy his father was. And you're left being demanding due to your enormous need for affection and reassurance. Each of you is struggling to heal the breach, meet in the middle. It will take serious work to do it. But is suspect you're up to it!
To make it happen, each of you, separately and together, needs to realize all this, that you're reading from a script. If you do, you'll stop and communicate about it, and shut down the automatic actions, you the demandingness, him the tendency to fade out of the family and find another woman, for no rational reason (yes, men get turned off their women during pregnancy as the hormones shift and attention turns away to the baby, but that doesn't explain everything). Remember, for each of you, doing these things are as natural as breathing! Of course you'll still have the feelings for a while; it's the actions you can control. The feelings will follow later.
So understand: it's not about the affair. It's not about the other woman. It's about the replay of your early lives that the two of you are doing.
If you haven't done so already, I urge you to take these ideas into your counseling sessions. They're pure gold for you!
However, there's more to do. No amount of understanding or insight can make up for experience that isn't there. Neither of you understands what it's like to live in a stable man-woman family. It will take years to get you there.
To move the process along, I urge you to consider getting into an ongoing couples grow up with an excellent and experienced therapist. I ran one for over a decade, and can assure you that it's incredibly helpful in situations like yours. Couples support and stabilize each other, and, importantly, teach each other about the things they've missed. It works because everyone missed different things.
In any case, get these core issues out front and communicated between you, work them every day, in every context, and both of you will heal and grow into your own lives. I know, I've seen people do it.
You may also want to consider sharing our interchange with your man. It would be a good jumping off point.
Best regards,
Dr. P.
Hi Dr. P, thank you for the response. We have talked about the WHY part a few times. I don't think I really know the true answer. At the time when his affair began I noticed that he was pulling away. I felt like he was afraid of the huge commitment we were about to make. His last marriage was when he was 18 and lasted 7 years. There was infidelity back and forth and he took a lot of verbal abuse from his ex-wife. His father was abusive toward him throughout his life (an alcoholic) and would cheat on his mother and eventually left her for another woman. They were never married but he married the woman he left her for. So I know there are no family values there either. The affair continued during my pregnancy, he wanted to go out and have fun and basically I couldn't do much of that. Also the sex had dwindled down to nothing because of my hormones. I was never in the mood but would have sex every so often just to please him. I had known him to be the most faithful type of person. I never expected it from him, even though I didn't doubt he could be capable of it. I have no trust in any man given my past relationships. All of the men were unfaithful but I never had a reason to stay with any of them. My son is one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to make this work. So I don't know if he had the affair because she was making him feel good, he said I had stopped showing him attention and affection. But I was just working off of him and how unaffectionate he was to me. I don't know if he was afraid of the full blown commitment. He never wants to really talk about the affair, he just wants to move forward. Which drives me insane because I feel like I still have questions that he refuses to answer. I just don't understand the attraction he had towards her. She is about 5 years older than him. He's 32 and she is 37, she is not very attractive at all, I know it sounds terrible but I just couldn't see him risking our family for a woman that isn't gorgeous. It sounds superficial but I just don't understand it. Her and I are completely different. Maybe that's what he was looking for. As far as my anger towards her, well I think it's easier for me to hate her than him because if I hated him I wouldn't be able to stay. So it's easy to transfer that feeling onto her. However, I blame him more than her. I think it was disgusting for her to do that. Especially at her age, to mess with a man who has a fiance and who then becomes pregnant. She wanted him, even if it meant taking him away from his son. But I'm sure he was telling her things to make her believe that we were unhappy and that we weren't going to stay together. So that's where my anger towards him comes into play. Although I do think she should've walked away from him and especially when it was evident that he was not going to leave me. I just think she was lonely and desperate so maybe I should feel sorry for her instead. I'm just tired of thinking about her all together. I don't have any sisters, so I don't know why I feel that way. I have great women in my life, my mother who raised me on her own, my friends who are the best. I've never been betrayed by any of them. So I don't know why I focus all of my energy onto hating her. He thinks I am crazy for thinking that he is pulling away. He says he's not and that he wants to be with me. Maybe I'm demanding and need enormous amounts of affection in order to be kept happy. I just like to feel loved and adored. I like to feel that the person I'm with can't stop kissing me or holding me. I guess that's where my abandonment issues and lack of a male role model in my life come into play. I have such neediness and I'm really trying hard not to place that onto him. I guess I will try and give baby steps of trust but I think I will never see him as the same man I had fell in love with. I am very disappointed with him and see him differently and that's what makes it hard to continue. But I can't keep throwing things in his face or else he will eventually give up himself.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear Mami,
There's no simple, and certainly no magical way of getting your trust back. it has to be won, little by little. It sounds like the two of you are going in the right direction. The trick is to keep going, and not let your rage get in the way.
In your couples work, did you come to understand WHY he went out on you? It's one thing for a man to get scared of becoming a father, or getting married (I'm not clear if the two of you are married now) another if he just can't stand being attached, and especially if his parents have no experience of connection themselves, giving him no models for an enduring relationship. If it's the former, there's a greater probability that his behavior was transient. If it's the latter, he's probably got some individual work to do.
As far as the other woman is concerned: I surely understand your anger at her. That said, remember that she's just a pawn in the game. Ask yourself why you see her as so central. Does she bring up old conflicts for you with other women, e.g. sisters? Or is she a convenient way of binding up your anxiety/anger over your man’s possible behavior? If there is a precedent, you may want to explore this in your own independent counseling.
Healing takes time and experience. I'm not suggesting that you somehow will yourself to let your guard down. That's impossible. Of course you're going to be thinking your man’s reverting, every second minute. What you can do is to trust him A LITTLE AT A TIME, IN GRADED STEPS. Trust just little enough so that if you're betrayed again, it won't be absolutely devastating. If he passes a given test, trust just a bit more.
As far as the “disconnection” is concerned, try to keep a sense of scale. After some years people don't constantly court; they accommodate to each other, and the relationship smoothes out. So ask yourself if it feels like he's genuinely connected, even if he's a little quieter about it.
You're absolutely right that throwing the affair in his face isn't helpful. If he's really trying to turn a corner, it will make him wonder whether his efforts are recognized. Don't push him to (paradoxically) seek that recognition from another woman.
Get some support from those friends and/or family whose judgment is good. They can be there to hear your frustration, and help you reality test the situation. This is far better than constantly pushing your man to take a loyalty oath, in a frantic attempt to damp down your anxiety. Words are easy. See what he does.
Within the boundaries mentioned above, help him maintain the spark between the two of you. Work to keep your beautiful family beautiful!
Cordially,
Dr. P.
There's no simple, and certainly no magical way of getting your trust back. it has to be won, little by little. It sounds like the two of you are going in the right direction. The trick is to keep going, and not let your rage get in the way.
In your couples work, did you come to understand WHY he went out on you? It's one thing for a man to get scared of becoming a father, or getting married (I'm not clear if the two of you are married now) another if he just can't stand being attached, and especially if his parents have no experience of connection themselves, giving him no models for an enduring relationship. If it's the former, there's a greater probability that his behavior was transient. If it's the latter, he's probably got some individual work to do.
As far as the other woman is concerned: I surely understand your anger at her. That said, remember that she's just a pawn in the game. Ask yourself why you see her as so central. Does she bring up old conflicts for you with other women, e.g. sisters? Or is she a convenient way of binding up your anxiety/anger over your man’s possible behavior? If there is a precedent, you may want to explore this in your own independent counseling.
Healing takes time and experience. I'm not suggesting that you somehow will yourself to let your guard down. That's impossible. Of course you're going to be thinking your man’s reverting, every second minute. What you can do is to trust him A LITTLE AT A TIME, IN GRADED STEPS. Trust just little enough so that if you're betrayed again, it won't be absolutely devastating. If he passes a given test, trust just a bit more.
As far as the “disconnection” is concerned, try to keep a sense of scale. After some years people don't constantly court; they accommodate to each other, and the relationship smoothes out. So ask yourself if it feels like he's genuinely connected, even if he's a little quieter about it.
You're absolutely right that throwing the affair in his face isn't helpful. If he's really trying to turn a corner, it will make him wonder whether his efforts are recognized. Don't push him to (paradoxically) seek that recognition from another woman.
Get some support from those friends and/or family whose judgment is good. They can be there to hear your frustration, and help you reality test the situation. This is far better than constantly pushing your man to take a loyalty oath, in a frantic attempt to damp down your anxiety. Words are easy. See what he does.
Within the boundaries mentioned above, help him maintain the spark between the two of you. Work to keep your beautiful family beautiful!
Cordially,
Dr. P.
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