Another 'Is She Lying to Me' Pregnancy Question...

Okay, here goes...

I've been friends for almost eight years with an American girl I met on the internet. A little over six weeks ago, she came to visit me and, well, we had sex. Now, over the last few days she has announced that she is pregnant, and that the dates leave no doubt as to me being the parent.

Now, I'm a little distraught. I have spent the last few days trying to comfort her, as best as I can via email anyway, and eventually she decided to get an abortion yesterday. She had an appointment today, and they gave her some bad news. She has had two abortions previously, the last of which left her with internal scarring. If she has another abortion, she may never be able to get pregnant again.

I finally confided in a friend, and was somewhat shocked by their reaction; they think that she's been lying to me. I've never considered myself an idiot before, but there is some sense to the argument and its eating me up.

The first is that the only way I know any of this is because she emailed me. I've seen no pregnancy tests, no doctors confirmation, nor anything. I haven't even asked to, because she's been so distraught.

The second is that - and apologies if this sounds very arrogant - I've since discovered that she believed herself to be in love with me (before we actually met, that is), and was upset that I didn't fall head over heals in love with her too, and whisk her away.

The third - and this is the one thats eating me up - is that she told me she was on birth control. I know, I know... but I've been friends with this girl for eight years. She claimed that she switched from the pill (which she was taking the last two times she got pregnant) to hormone treatment to avoid it happening again, but didn't realise that this treatment takes a few weeks to kick in. There are a few other things, but I don't really want to feel like I've just made a big list of her faults. It is worth pointing out that she perhaps isn't the sanest of girls, with a tendency towards depression (which I suffer from too) and a decidedly self destructive streak.

So I was wondering... is it even possible to not realise that sort of thing? Surely any doctor who put her on this treatment would have explained how it works? Does it sound like I'm being strung along to impartial strangers as well as good friends?

And finally, if anyone has any idea at all where I stand with regards to the whole 'woman having my child lives 3,000 miles away' aspect of things, I really would like to hear it. I've gone almost a week without sleep now, and I'm not coping too well.

Thank you, in advance.

[specialmom]

Well.  Hm.  Do I think she is lying?  Yes.  About something she is  probably lying.  Was she pregnant prior to the visit?  Was she setting you up to become pregnant?  Could she get an abortion if she wanted?  (I'm doubtful of her story of scar tissue).  This would be her third abortion and she never intended to get pregnant with any of them?  She didn't understand how birth control worked?  Hm.  Hm.  Not sane nor bright if this is all true.  I'm guessing it is not true.

I think that you ask her who her ob/gyn is and that you want a number to call them.  Call her on the phone and don't email her.  Tell her you want the name and number of the ob right then and there.  And then call them.  If she balks, says she has to get back to you or becomes defensive------------- the gig is up.  Now . . . my ob does not see women often until 8 weeks.  But she has now told you that she has been to a doctor and discussed abortion and was told it can't be done due to scar tissue (her story anyway)--------- so there is a doc for you to talk to.  Call him/her if you get a number.  If she is pregnant--------- you ask for a paternity test and you deal with it.  YOu live far away but would have to acknowledge you are a dad.  I don't think she is---------  and if she isn't, you breathe a sigh of relief.  And you extricate yourself from this kooky woman.  

This is an important lesson to learn.  Protect yourself better.  Oh yeah-------- better get checked for STD's while you are at it.  

I'm sorry-----------  I hope she isn't pregnant and you will breathe a sigh of relief soon.  After that deep breath-------- kick yourself.  Don't repeat this and end the relationship with the woman involved.  good luck (and all of this was just my opinion.)

[DarcyFitzwilliam]

Would her ob/gyn even speak to me? Surely confidentiality issues and the like would prevent that?

As for acknowledging my fatherhood... I'll admit, it terrifies me. Not for the obvious reasons, but the thought of my first child growing up on the other side of the world, and me hardly ever getting to see them. I've got the selfish reasons too, of course. I'm about to enter a much happier relationship and start University too. I'm... honestly trying not to think about it for now, but if the time does come I will meet my responsibilities.

And rest assured I've already started kicking myself. Thank you very much for the advice.

[Soggymoggy]

Hi there,

Wow, what a mess!

First of all, it is incredibly rare for damage to be done during an abortion sufficient to prevent a woman from having another - particularly if, as in this case, she would be looking at an early medical abortion (two pills to induce miscarriage) rather than the surgical option.  If there HAD been that kind of damage done, it would have badly affected her fertility first, so the odds against her getting pregnant in the first place would be huge. This sounds to me like bollocks; either she was pregnant when you met, or she never intended to get rid of it, or there's something else she's not telling you.

Secondly - and agreeing with Specialmom - she would have to be pretty damned thick to get her birth control wrong three times.  It CAN happen because no birth control is completely infallible (it happened to me about a year ago after eight years on the pill, and I still don't know whether I missed one and didn't realise or it was just a freakish mischance), but the odds against three genuine accidents are astronomical. Out of interest, how old is this girl?  If you're about to start uni and she's the same age, she's bloody got around a bit!

Right; here's the bit that a lot of people wouldn't agree with, but the advice I'm giving you here is what I would give to a friend with his interests only in mind.  From what you've said, this girl is insecure and pretty unstable; this being the case, you have to keep in mind that her emotional responses, her ethics and her logic will be - to some degree - abnormal, and that this will have to influence how you deal with her.

If you were my friend, I would advise you to send this girl one last message, explaining that you don't love her and have no intention of being in a relationship with her - and honestly, the colder and more brutal the better in the long-run, as long as you don't validate her power over you by sounding angry or bitter.  Tell her that the decision to have an abortion is up to her, but either way she is to expect no help or contact AT ALL from you. Make it very clear that your decision to sever ties with her is non-negotiable whatever her decision; what you need to do is make sure you leave her absolutely no room (however faulty and delusional her reasoning) to think that if she continues with her current behaviour you will eventually come round and agree to be with her.

I know this sounds incredibly harsh and that you probably don't want to think of yourself as that much of a *******, but let me explain.  The timing of her visit to you means that - if you are the father - she is still (for another couple of weeks) within the time limits to have an early medical abortion; I simply don't believe that she's been told she can't have this option due to scar tissue, it's just like a very heavy period.  If she's actually been told she can't have an EMA because she's too far along (which I would guess is probably the reality if she is pregnant), then it's not yours anyway, so not in any way your problem.

You've said that before she visited you she considered herself to be in love with you.  That's actually terrifyingly delusional (no offense), but it does provide a pretty good indication as to her motives in all this.  I think either she IS pregnant (see options above) and is trying to use it to manipulate you into being with her; or she ISN'T pregnant, and because of the distance is able to fabricate a story with the same aim in mind.  If the latter is the case, I would guess that her plan is to get SOME KIND of commitment from you (and remember, if she's as unstable as she sounds, it may make perfect sense to her to think that you'll jump on a plane to the States and marry her - but she may settle for something less concrete, too) and then fake a miscarriage - and use your kind nature and sympathy to cement the relationship.  I did toy with suggesting that you make it clear that you won't be her partner but that you will support the baby financially if it is yours (the more honourable approach, after all), but given her state of mind I suspect she would consider that to be grounds for hope; as long as she has SOME access to you, she will perceive that as a chance with you - in which case, whatever game she's playing here will continue.

If you do decide to follow my advice, don't expect her to drop it immediately; you will get a lot of recriminating messages and phone calls - it would be worth getting the phone numbers for her parents or a couple of friends first.  When this happens, reply to emails/messages with one line reiterating your position, and if she calls simply tell her that she knows your position and you're not interested in talking to her.  Don't ignore the messages and phone calls whatever you do; again, that would be perceived as grounds for hope - as long as she's not hearing a definite "f*ck off", she'll kid herself that you're just busy, or your phone's broken, or you're scared to talk to her - and this will allow her to think you might have changed your mind.

IF she is pregnant, and IF it is yours, she is still able to get the two pills and have an EMA - I'm not kidding when I say it's just like a heavy period, I've had it myself. When she sees that you're not going to be manipulated by her potentially having your baby, chances are she will drop the pretense and have the EMA after all - end of problem.  If she can't have the EMA then her dates are wrong, it's not yours anyway, so end of problem.  If she is NOT pregnant (which honestly seems just as likely), I would guess that she will either tell you she's had a miscarriage due to the stress of what you're "putting her through", or she'll pretend to have an abortion after all (with an elaborate story about how she convinced the doctor), in which case you'll be accused of forcing her to risk her life, her fertility, her emotional health - whatever.  Either way, she's lost her bargaining chip so end of problem.

As for the INCREDIBLY slim chance that she's telling the truth in all this; well, if that's the case then she's going to have a baby anyway, so there's nothing you can do about it at this stage.  If this is the case (and I seriously doubt it), then all you can do is insist on a paternity test (expect outrage) before committing to ANYTHING, and then if it is yours decide to what extent you want to be involved in your child's life.  It may be that you decide to support the child financially only (in which case deal with her through a third party as far as possible), but that's a decision only you can make.  The only thing I'll say there is that you must INSIST on a paternity test, and make it clear that she will get nothing from you unless she can prove incontravertably that the child is yours - obviously don't take her word for it on the results, either!

[Soggymoggy]

Wasn't finished, sorry:

I fully expect that if anyone else reads this I will receive a tirade of angry messages saying that men are just as responsible for creating babies as women are, and that they should live up to their responsibilities and accept the consequences of their actions.  Let me clarify my position here, in the hope that it won't sound totally unreasonable.

I consider it to be COMPLETELY the woman's decision if she wishes to have an abortion after getting pregnant by accident; no amount of guilt from the father should force her to have a baby against her will.  By the same token, however, I think it is disgraceful that a woman should be able to KEEP an accidental pregnancy - and then expect the father to support her in a decision that was made against HIS will.  Yes, it takes two people to make a baby and yes, a man needs to think with his brain occasionally and not take a woman's word that she's on birth control - but common sense dictates that the woman needs to be as careful as possible, because she's the one who has to go through the pregnancy and have the baby if she's careless.

I know too many men who have been conned into having families against their will; two of my friends in the last year who have been in relationships with girls who were "on the pill" have found themselves fathers against their will, with abortion not even discussed as an option.  In both these cases I firmly believe that the women fully intended to become pregnant, and targeted my friends as they are both "nice guys" who could be relied upon to stick around and take on "their" responsibility.  Yes, you could argue that the men have been stupid, and certainly there is no excuse for not using condoms for a one-night-stand or a fling; but both these men were in steady relationships and trusted their partner.   I don't think it's coincidence that in both these cases the women are in their thirties (my friends are both in their early twenties), and that both were engaged and planning families with other partners before being dumped and getting together with my friends.

If the decision to abort is completely down to the woman (and I believe it should be), then we must accept that the decision to continue a pregnancy is also hers alone.  Anyway, rant over.

Best of luck, DarcyFitzwilliam - don't be afraid to do what is best for you, and let us know what happens. :)

[Barbarella]

I know somebody who experienced almost the same you are experiencing.  In his case she was already pregnant by somebody else, but wasn't sure if he was the father of her unborn child, and wanted to nail this guy who is a super nice guy.

Calling the OBGYN wouldn't get you anywhere.  There would not give you any info either way. Not even a husband/wife can get info about medical tests, medical conditions unless the husband/wife has a "written and signed" statement at the doctor's office so his/her spouse can get the "confidential" information.

What you need to do is ask her to provide a copy to you of a "professional" pregnancy test done at a doctor's office, NOT the ones you buy over the counter at any pharmacy in supermarkets.

If it says that she is pregnant you then ask her to have a DNA test done to see if it is YOUR child she is pregnant with.

If she declines both of the above mentioned or just one of the above, and still claims that you got her pregnant,  you then need to get yourself a lawyer.  He/she can force her "legally" to have the pregnancy test but most of all, and most important the DNA test done.

If she doesn't go along with the lawyer's request you're off the hook, and you know that she is lying.

If she is pregnant with YOUR child unfortunately as you know you have to go from there, but not so fast, have the other two tests I mentioned above done first by her.

Be glad that we live in a time where DNA testing can be done otherwise you might would be the father to a child you've never fathered.

She might not even give you a copy of the pregnancy test which will tell you right there that she is not even pregnant.

Good luck to you!

[specialmom]

Oh rats, forgot about HIPPA.  Well, you can ask HER to call her doctor and put you on the privacy document and THEN you can call.  It takes her ok is all.  If she won't give it to you-----------  then you know.

But really the point of saying you want the doctor's number is not to talk to them but to see her reaction as I suspect she is lying.  She could indeed be pregnant and if she balks at you talking to the physician (with her consent)-------- she'd be worried that dates might be mentioned.  

I think the whole thing is a sham.

Anyway, I think the other two ladies and I are all saying the same thing.  Something is shady and you should figure out how to NOT be involved and extricate yourself from this woman's life.  Good luck

[getlykemc10]

First things first...you gotta get some good solid evidence from her. I agree with Barbarella getting the copy of the test done at the doctor's is your best bet. As a mother myself when I thought I was pregnant I took a home test and then went to the hospital to confirm. The paper they gave me had my name, birth date, LMP (last monthly period), type of test done to determine pregnancy (urine), EDD (estimated due date-when they thought I would have my baby), doctor's name who ran the test, and the date I did the test. That is the one paper that will give you the proof that you need of her pregnancy, however it probably won't ease your fears. If it is at all possible I would try to go to one of her ultrasound appts with her. During those visits they measure the baby to see how big it is (they can also determine how many weeks the baby is depending on the size). I really hope you get the answers you are looking for.

[DarcyFitzwilliam]

Hey all. Sorry for the absence, I've been decidedly busy flitting between dealing with everything and trying to forget it ever happened.

The more I looked into everything, the less things seemed to make sense. The Asherman's Syndrome in particular was clearly a lie based on what she'd told me. I called her on it, accused her of lying. First I got the emotional explosion ('how dare you call me a liar'), then the emotional blackmail ('I need you, don't abandon me') and then the next batch of lies ('I don't have this Asherman's thing you were telling me about, I didn't explain it properly is all...').

I've cut off all contact, with a heavy heart. I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to help me and offer advice, I honestly don't know how I would have coped without it. Thats one lesson hard learned, so now its time to move on.

[specialmom]

Thank you so much for coming back and updating us.  I'm sorry you had to go through this.  It is hard to trust someone and then find out they are full of it.  I think you've made a wise decision to have cut off ties and really, I hope that this woman is okay in the end as she sounds quite unstable.  Good luck to you!

[DarcyFitzwilliam]

I did tell her to get some help before I furiously hit every block button the internet has ever invented. Hopefully when she calms down she'll think about it and take the advice. It's horrible to lose a friend of eight years, and even worse to know that she must be suffering now even if she did bring it upon herself. But theres nothing more I can do beyond wishing her well and hoping for the best.

Thanks again, from the bottom of my heart.