I need to know how to get out of this funk I have been in. Things with my fiancé have always been up and down but right now I’m the one who has sort of distanced myself. He’s being wonderful, very sweet, very loving but I’m very very bored. I’m not sure what’s happening here, I love him a ton but he gets into these lazy funks where all he wants to do is hang out at home and watch tv. I’m all for those lazy days but when it’s beautiful out, I hate to stay in. I know I should go out and do my own thing but sometimes I just want to be a family. But I think it’s more than just that, I feel like he’s been so selfish. I know, what man isn’t. But I feel like he’s selfish about everything. Like his needs are always met and everything is always on his terms and if he doesn’t feel like doing something then we don’t. I’m always up for anything because I’m like that, down for whatever, but with him, getting him to do anything is like pulling teeth. I’m always, scratching his back or massaging his back or making him dinner. Then when it’s time for my massage he forgets. I asked him does he ever think about what my needs may be or if perhaps I could use a little bit of pampering. He said he does but then gets too tired. WTF? Well at least he’s honest. But it’s made me more resentful and honestly I’ve been looking at other men lately, wondering if perhaps I will meet someone and they will sweep me off my feet. I know I have to sit and talk with him about how I’m feeling, I just don’t want to have a defensive conversation. He’s been so sweet today but it’s not enough for me. Maybe I’m too demanding, maybe my expectations are too high. I’m not sure, maybe I just got so used to drama in my life, now that it’s calming down, I’m bored. I don’t like the drama, I hated what was happening between us but I just don’t want us to get caught in a rut again. Any advice would be appreciated.
Mami, he's not a bad looking guy....your pictures are very beautiful. Maybe you just need to take a break away from him and that' ok. It's best to make decisions while you are engaged and not when you are married, so take a break or better yet, take a vacation. You know what I did, I went to France without fiance and it was great (p.s. I'm of Puerto Rican heritage). You don't need him to pamper you...go to the hair salon and get the works, message, peticure, hair styled...go shopping until you drop ( I love that!). Get together with girl friends and take a mini weekend trip, like Las Vegas. Leave Friday, come back Sunday.
It does sound like he is a little selfish, but most guys are (no offense out there!). Take sometime out and if you are tempted (there are a lot of papi's out there) by the fruit of another, be very careful that you don't do anything that you are going to regret,but, your young, beautiful and If you do decide to date other me, make sure to brake it off with fiance (I know, because I'm going thru similar situation right now) first or temporarily seperate (make sure to give back the ring) and I know it's easier said than done, but you need to do what is best for you and what makes you happy...some time off or tell him straight out what you want from him...good luck ( I would still go happy shopping)...Judy
Judy, thanks. I guess part of me is still burnt by his affair and maybe I’m looking to hurt him back….I don’t really know what’s wrong with me. I know it’s stupid because I could inevitably lose him and I’m not sure if that’s what I want. I just think that I’ve been through so much that I am now a bit confused on whether I could ever truly be happy with him. I love him and we have a son together which I know is the light of his life. I think he learned his lesson and I believe he is really serious about making sure our family stays intact. I have done everything, including counseling to try and work this relationship out and we have discussed marriage. I want to move forward with him but I have to feel as if I’m going to get everything I need out of this relationship. Maybe I’m just going through something, a phase that will pass. It’s so confusing.
Mami, I'm so sorry, I didn't know he had an affair and there is absolutely nothing wrong with you! I looked at your pictures and honey, you are the prize here, but he is a good looking man too. How do you forgive someone who has done you wrong. It take's a very special person to forgive and it takes a long time. I truly believe that to forgive is a gift or "divine", because although, I would be able to forgive, I would never trust him again and relationships are build on trust. Mami, I have a guy who is GQ gorgous. He has light green eyes, dark blond hair, tall and women give him a second look. I don't stay behind, I'm 5'4, light brown/blond long hair, light brown eyes. He was once unfaithful, but we were in the early stages of our relationship. While dating me, he dated and kissed a married woman and told me about it.....BIG mistake, all hell broke lose. You would not believe the things I said to him under anger including, "what, I'm not woman enough for you?" and walk out on him, did not look back and I wanted nothing to do with him over a kiss. He regret telling and didn't expect my reaction. It took almost a full year for me to forgive him and I'm still struggling with it. I do forgive him, but i can't forget and if I call him and he doesn't answer the phone right away or text me back, I get that sick feeling of betrayal, panic, insecurity, etc. and I don't want to live my life like that. He knows better...I will leave him on the spot and I mean it! You need listen to that six sense that we women have and do what is best for your heart and your son. We both know that the relationship between father and son is not the question. He has to earn your trust and that's going to take a long time. Your in the steering wheel on this one. Why don't you go ahead and consider taking a mini trip. Show him that you can do just fine without him, but if you are in love with him, try to work things out, but tell him straight out what you want from him. Let me know how you are doing....Judy
Hey Judy, thanks, yes he did and no one can figure out why. The woman who he had an affair with was very unattractive to say the least. It was a long affair and it happened while I was pregnant and after I had our son. I have been through a lot with him and he was the one who wanted counseling. I had kicked him out as soon as I discovered the affair. I feel though now that he's all about me, I am in a different place, I love him and am in love with him and still enjoy our time together, I find myself thinking about what it would be like to be with someone else. I'm not sure why, maybe I'm bored, maybe I'm still angry and hurt, maybe I should've taken more time for myself. I have no idea what my feelings are about all of this. I feel like our relationship is stuck. It's been almost a year since the affair came to light and he's over her, I'm not, I still feel so betrayed and it's like I'm waiting for him to mess up again just so I can end it. Even though I know if that day were to come I would be so sad and lonely without him. He can make me laugh every day and he can put a smile on my face just by telling me he loves me or is thinking of me. I guess it takes time, forgiveness is just not in me yet still. I wished it were. Maybe I'm just so numb to it all, I don't obsess over where he is or what he's doing much any more because part of me knows that if he does do it again, it will be over for good. Permanently! I guess you are right about it taking time, I just can't wait to stop feeling happy one minute and sad the next. Thanks for telling me your story. Trust is very necessary for a successful relationship, wish mine was never destroyed.
Wow, long affair, while you were pregnant and after your son was born is ultimate betrayal. Mami, you are a saint to have taken him back...he is lucky to have you. I would have NEVER taken him back and he would have had to take me to court to be part of the baby's life, but we all respond differently and have to think what is best for the child. I truly believe that once a man is unfaithful, the potential is always there...were are humans and the temptations will always be there.
I'm sure he is aware that if he makes one little mistake, he is gone for good out of your life, but you both share a handsome son, which he will always be a part of. If you are feeling happy one moment and sad the other...also, that "I'm bored...rut" feeling, it's depression. If it continues talk with your doctor to see what antidepressant he can give you (short term), to help return that feeling of balance in your life. Best Wishes, Judy
I struggled with my decision to take him back for a long time, still do sometimes. It's very hard but my son was a very big reason on why I decided to work it out. True the potential is always there for him and for me as well. If I wanted to cheat, I could very easily. So the ball is actually in his court. Does he want to see me with another man, would he be ok with another man being around his son more than he would be. That's up to him. I would never take his son away from him regardless. That was one thing, even when I found out I let him take our son for the night to his sister's house because our problems are our problems, it has no bearing on his love for his son and it wouldn't be fair to our son if I used him to hurt his father. Now if he brought my son around the hooker who he cheated on me with, that's another story. But I believe he's smarter than that. I considered anti-depressants but haven't done them yet. I guess we will see what happens.
Hey mami! I see your little one is growing fast like mine. =) I think that now that enough time has passed since he strayed, it's normal for you to start taking inventory of the relationship. Once the raw, painful emotions subside, it's only natural to question things. Let me ask you this- what about going back to counseling now? Before, you were just trying to get passed the "her" situation. Now you can address the fallout that came after (or may have been there before but you were okay with it.) I think if y'all made it through the infidelity you can definitely get through this. Have you tried talking to him and telling him that he he needs to put forth more effort in showing you how special you are? Do y'all ever go out on a date night, just the two of you?
Mami, you have a good head on your shoulders and I'm very proud of you. You handled the situation way better than I would have and you are a strong woman. He's lucky to have you and I know you will make the right decisions. Good luck, Judy
mlkspage – they sure are getting big, I feel like time has gone way too fast. We still go to counseling but not religiously. We should really stick with it regularly, otherwise there is no point. I actually sat down with him yesterday and told him that I have needs that need to be met as well. He wanted me to play hookie from work yesterday so we could spend time together. It was nice but the conversation led into how he thinks that I’m miserable and that I don’t enjoy anything anymore. I said that it’s because of what you did, even though it’s been almost a year, it still has an effect on our relationship. I am not “over it” and feel like it really damaged us. I’m trying but part of me wants to walk away and the other part of me wants to stay. He says he doesn’t know what to say to me other than to try and move forward and enjoy time with each other. I know he’s right but it’s a matter of doing it. I had fun with him yesterday though.
Judy – thanks hon, I appreciate it. It’s a tough road to continue on but it has definitely made me a stronger person.
Oh man.... girlfriend... I do feel for you. My heart really races when I hear how painful it's been for you and I wish I could or would live closer to give you a big hug and take you shopping! =)
Hun, you know about my past. I've told it to you several times. When I was dating my ex (for 8 years) and we were almost engaged, I found out he had cheated on me. He didn't just have one... but MANY affairs... count friends, friends of his, cousins of his friends..., strangers, hookers.... even one that lasted for a while too.... =(, he begged for forgiveness... and I was so sickly in love with him that I did.
We were on and off... for a couple of years after that. I remember those feelings like they were yesterday. I remember the big hole in my stomach every time I'd hear one of those women's names... or even him checking out other women (he was an a-hole!).
I remember even getting so worked up that my hand would get a tingling feeling!!!! =S it was awful.
I also remember thinking: I wish there was a 'prince charming' that would show up out of nowhere and sweep me off my feet, and save me from this relationship I'm stuck in. I wish there was someone out there I could just focus on and that way it would be less painful to make 'the move'.
I didn't know how bad I wanted out of there.
Until one day, I went to get my tarot cards read (you know I'm a weirdo like that! Lol) and the lady told me that I was NOT gonna marry this guy. In fact, that I was gonna meet someone from a northern country (uh,.. hello!! lol) and that he was gonna be a little older than me, chubby, tall and good looking. He was gonna be very responsible, a great provider, coming from a broken family (mommy died about 12 years ago) and that we were gonna love each other like crazy.
Well, you talk about motivation! lol
I walked out and after several little incidents (he was very controlling) I couldn't take it anymore... I wanted to FREE MYSELF from all that misery. I was NEVER gonna 'get over it' and so might as well end it now.
Now granted I did not have a son with him... =(((
I went and talked to him: he cried like a little girl! he screamed, he banged on the door... he kneeled infront of me and hugged my knees! lol (it was funny...) and told me: but Vanessa! I haven't cheated on you this time! why are you ending this?? lol
So after walking out of the house and getting my dad against me!... I talked to both my parents about what he had done to me and they supported me big time! I talked to one of my best friends and she invited me to sleep over at her house for a couple of days.... her and her sister (I looooove them!) made me yummy food, took me out shopping, and every night we would sit on the bed and they'd make me write down all the things he had done to me. Every single hurtful thing he did... and said.... and made me swear that every time I'd want to pick up that phone to call him I'd get my list out of my pocket and read it three times.... and then wait 2 full minutes... and see what happened.
I kid you not.... I did not call him ONCE.
I would go out for runs every night and go party with the girls 3 days out of the week!! lol it was insane! I met guys... I ... ehem.... misbehaved... and it was SWEET! lol... it was like revenge! lol
Then after a couple of months, I settled down and one time I clicked on an ad that read: Americansingles.com....
Went to the chat after filling out my profile and saw there was a looser with a nick 'bad boy'....
I started picking on him... he hated me and started being sarcastic with me... then we exchanged pics.... he seemed to like me... I did like him.... then we spoke the next day over msn....
Then the next night.... then the next.....
Then it became a routine when if I would not come to my computer by 8, he would get 'upset'....
He would call me and play guitar for me..... and I'd sing....
Fast forward: 8 years later... we are married, have a beautiful daughter... and are happy. Things are NOT perfect, he is not very affectionate either, and I am a corn! lol but, knowing that this person that comes every night and sleeps right beside me would never touch another woman is like 'pepto bismol to a sour stomach'.... it is SOOTHING...... =)
I am not giving you probably the best of advices.... but girl, this is my story. I am so sorry if I sound discouraging..... but I am not as strong as you are. You are one special woman with a HUGE heart!
Every now and then I dream of Mike (my ex)... or think of him... and it puts a smile in my face to remember all the things we had and did. We grew up together and probably it was only normal.... but then I remember again that little 'list' my friends helped me put together and believe me, there are no regrets. I see my Bryan and my Maddie and think how lucky I am now.
I just wish he would have lived in Mexico so I could have stayed down there!!!!!! ;)
V your story is wonderful. I'm so glad you met your hubby. I wished Richie never tainted our relationship the way he did. I feel like it ruined so much of what we had. I told him that yesterday. It damaged any bit of good that we had. But then we have moments like last night where we really enjoy our time together. Last night he grabbed my face and stroked it and it’s times like those that make me see how much he really loves me. Then this morning he hugged me for 15 minutes before he had to leave for work. Granted it led into something else ;) but it’s like he didn’t want to let me go. I am so confused. I wish there was an easy answer and an easy fix to “us” but I just don’t know what it is.
V...great story and I'm proud of you too...you go girl! Judy (I just love strong women who like to shop and the idea of writing a list of all the bad things he did was great...I need to try that next time, it will definately stop you from picking up the phone) :) Judy
LOL! Vanessa, I miss reading your long, crazy-interesting posts!
mami, yes it helped. The last time I took Welbutrin was after I had Dylan. I had the post baby blues and they weren't too bad but then I started stressing about coming back to work and I would just spend my days off bawling about it. I realized that I needed to get out of that depression so that I could enjoy the time at home with him. I'm not taking anything now but I would if I needed it.
Did you guys end up taking the break a couple months ago or no? i just think men are lazy in general.. lol. My ex was very controlling & he constantly cheated on me but i was so in love with him ( or so i thought) that i stayed.. his needs were always met and mine never were.. so it left me longing for more.. i found myself becoming jealous of my friends who had great men in their life.. the final straw was when he cheated on me for the 100th time and i just knew that was it.. so i went out got myself a new job that i really enjoyed and i met the most wonderful man at work.. we were friends for months before we got together.. matter of fact he was in a relationship when i first met him a very unhappy relationship so after months of talking and being just friends he realized he wanted more than what he had in his relationship so he left her and a month later ( after he had time to tie up loose ends) we started dating.. and let me tell you.. i have never met a man who treated me as well as he does.. now all of my needs are met and so much more.. back when i was with my ex i loved him but i always found myself wondering what it would be like with someone else.. and now i dont have to wonder because i have everything i could possibly want with Matt.. i don't feel incomplete.. you know what i am saying? sorry for the rambling but the point im trying to get to is that maybe you should really get real with yourself.. sit down and process your thoughts.. are u staying with this man because he is the father of your son? could u picture your life without him? is there something missing? and if there is, is it in your relationship or is it something that has to do with just you..? sometimes we get so comfortable in a relationship that we don't realize we simply have fallen out of love with that person..
Hey girl, actually no we never took that break and sometimes I wished we had but lately things have been going really well. I don't know what happened but I guess we started listening more to each other and balancing each other out. We discussed it in therapy and found that we weren't watching for each other's cues. She said that he needs to notice when I need a little bit of affection and give it and I need to see when he needs his space and give it to him. Not to take anything personally and if it seems that he's tired and doesn't want to do anything, do something by myself. I've just been so afraid of leaving him alone because of the mistrust that I want to do everything together but that's not healthy. But we've had some pretty good moments, he's been sweet and affectionate, and loving and we've even talked a little bit about the affair so that I could get some closure on it. He never talked about the w h o r e and I never got some questions answered. Finally he said he never loved her and it was just him being stupid and wanting to go out and he would purposely start fights just so he could escape. But it wasn't about her, it was him, wanting to run away. He regrets what he did and still now almost a year later, wishes he could take it back. He learned a great deal from this situation and feels really bad about it and really wants to make up for what he did. So we are slowly getting back on track. He said that if we broke up, it would be so hard for him to get over me. And I believe that. I feel the same. So no, I can't picture myself without him. I love him, even though he gets on my nerves sometimes, I love the bond we have. I don't think I stay with him because of our son but yesterday we were all lying in bed together and it was just a great moment. The three of us, together. I love that and know that it would never be the same if we were separated. What I think was missing was the excitement. He gets very lazy sometimes and he knows it and I think we both just need to put more of an effort into coming up with ideas on what to do with our time. I think it was the relationship and trying to work through all of my issues about the affair. I guess I think he should be doing whatever possible to keep me happy after everything and expected him to go above and beyond and my expectations of him were a little high. Because even though he was, I thought it wasn't enough. I feel like he should be paying for what he did constantly. In his mind it was almost a year ago, for him, he has no feelings for this woman, it is the past to him and he's just focused on us now. But to me, it feels like it just happened, the damage is still there. I'm the one who was hurt, I'm the one who feels like he isn't the man I thought he was and so it's me who has to come to terms with this and to understand that in order to make a great relationship, I can't keep trying to make him pay for what he did and I need to enjoy our relationship for what it is....does that make sense?
I can understand how you feel about the betrayal feeling like it was yesterday. It's been a year and a half since my partner slept with his ex when we were starting out. Yes it was towards the beginning but that doesn't matter, I still question in my mind things like ''how did he get turned on by her when he had me, when he was in love with me, how did he get it hard for her?'' - it's very hard to deal with no matter how long ago, or what stage it happened in the relationship. I sometimes (on a good day, which is quite often) feel like I have moved on from it all. But the bad days, when my mood is low, do come round and I am back remembering the painful past and opening the old wounds with my thoughts. I cried just the other day because I found his old phone which had a text on it (date corresponded with when we were together) from Her saying 'Come on, we can make this work' - OMG, I was devastated and started to doubt everything about him - make what work?? Their relationship was history, supposidley. But he swore to me that she was referring to a ''friendship'' as she hoped they could have that. (I too remember her nagging for a friendship) So to save myself opening old wounds too much, the next day after finding the text I decided to forget about the text and take his word for it - hell I'm pregnant, that would be all I needed right now !!) But the point I am making here is I know how it feels to have your body change from happiness to sadness in a moment - any simple small reminder is all it takes and that's it, you start doubting everything again. I too feel I have the perfect relationship that was tarnished but a disgusting act of selfishness and greed. I look at him and remember it and I have to look away from him, or I won't like what I'm going to start thinking of him. Its a complicated feeling that one minute can feel like love and another that turns to disgust. I don't know if I will ever truly be able to forgive him, not deep within my heart. I just have to hope that will come in the future.
It's like your words came right out of my mouth, or finger tips....lol. It's so true, one minute, I love him to death and can look at him and hug him and feel so close and all it takes is one small thought about the past and I want to scratch his eyeballs out. I have had to try really hard to manipulate my thoughts to not go back to those moments when he was lying or try not to think about him with her. It's so difficult to do that, especially when it still feels so fresh. I look at her pictures (she's on match.com) and wonder what the heck did he ever see in her. But I guess she was desperate and he was looking for a way to escape and they were perfect for one another at the time. But she obviously thought it was more than what it was but I don't blame her, he did a great job at making her stick around for all of that time. I know he regrets it and I know he feels really bad for hurting me. I guess he just doesn't understand the pain that it caused me. I mean the extent of the pain. And the anger that is still there, geesh, wondering if that ever goes away to. Man, I wish it gets easier. I can't wait for the day when I don't think of it at all. It would be a distant memory. It's strange because he's over it, she's probably over it and I'm the only one left still hurt and destroyed by their actions. It doesn't seem fair does it?
I so can relate. My daughter will be 11 next month. Her father and i started dating when i was 16. Got pregnant at 17 and had her when i was 18. He cheated on me so many times to the point that he brought the other girls brother to my house and he new i was the "wifey". He even took our daughter to her house. I ofcourse didn't know i was in school at the time. She got pregnant he dumped her. I didn't even know till after the baby was born . She named the baby alexander. hello, my daughters name is alexandra. She supposedly did it cuz she cared about my daughter but at the time it hurt so bad. I stayed with him. He did it again im sure tons of times but i found about another incident the day of my daughters 3rd birthday party. Had to pretend eveything was ok. A friend of a friend caught him leaving a hotel with another girl. Kicked him out and never looked back. Then i met my ex we were together for 6 yrs. Nevver new he led a double life. he was dominican and had a wifey overthere i never new about. Ended that over a year and a half a go. Now i'm with my boyfriend who i love so much, Never thought i would find someone who could make me so happy and treat me the way i deserve. But i guess in life we need to take the bad as well as the good so we can appreciate the good we have.
Hey Mami! men are lazy. they don't want to do all that work when they've already won us over lol. i have to make my husband rub my back, even when i was pregnant carrying an oversized baby (11 lbs when born). i have to bargain w/ him like
"get off the x box"
"no! im just getting on w/ the guys and we've got to win this match etc..."
"well, you haven't spent anytime w/ me darnit"
"i will i will"
"are you going to rub my back? you can't keep playing if you aren't going to rub my back later. a real massage too."
"yes, yes i promise we'll spend time together and i'll rub your back. just let me play in peace woman"
this xbox is everyday and just about every evening he's off from work. im thinking of "accidentally" dropping his xbox. maybe w/out it he'll realize he has a wife and 2 kids in this place on his own for once. i feel like taking a break from him but i know w/ me and the loud kids gone, he'd never come find us! :)
i think he went through changes yesterday getting our computer upgraded and a new expensive graphics card for sims 3 to get rid of me. it's been working too :)
oh god i hear you on the game systems! at least yours only plays xbox....we have xbox, ps3 AND the wii plus the computer. if he isn't playing one of them i'm so surprised. and there is NO massages for me. not even when i was pregnant. i always got....why should i? i'd look at him and say "i'm carrying around BOTH of your sons that's why!!!!" i still never got so much as a toe rub. lol
If you guys had a clear and committed relationship where it was understood that neither was to sleep with another person outside of said relationship and he did, that must have been a major blow in the trust for sure.
But if you choose to stay and let the trust grow again, remember you're not really fully there if you're resenting and not choosing to forgive. In other words, if you don't think you'd like to forgive, that's ok, but it's a bit of a waste of time to refrain from rupturing the relationship out of feat. That will only prolong the inevitable.
However, in case you do decide that you truly do want to stay in and work together, I think there seems to be some lack of clear boundaries here.
First of all, in a healthy relationship there is very clear communication. You talk about your feelings and express what you want.
There's such a thing is compromise, sure, but you can't change people. If you've expressed you'd like to be more active with his company, he's expressing he'd like to be at home, and you're unsatisfied... the ball's in your court. It's up to you to decide whether that's something you can accept or not. If it's not, communicate that again and express the importance and relevancy of your request in a clear and blunt manner. Relationships are not about you meeting his needs... or him meeting yours. They're about exploring others, sharing important bits and the meaning in our lives, and growing from the experience. At the risk of sounding too philosophical here, we are inherently selfish and self-centered beings regardless of the actions we perform towards others. In the end we have a closed neural circuit,we're beings born as an end unto ourselves, we're each here to explore our experience. Everything we do is done after the spark of a thought or feeling. We're each responsible for our own feelings, actions, needs, so on.
If you have needs that are not being met, it isn't his responsibility to fulfill them- and it isn't selfish of him not to. Doing deeds and expecting other actions back, at the cost of possible resentment, is not likely to lead your relationship to a fulfilling, healthy and mature place. Do what you do because you think it's right, or for a feeling you understand, with a clear purpose in mind. Request - not demand- what you need. If he doesn't fulfill a need, examine whether that is something you can get elsewhere while still remaining within the boundaries established by your relationship. If it's not, ask yourself on a scale of 1-10 how relevant this particular need is to you, 10 being a deal breaker. Communicate that relevancy to him clearly, and request every time you'd like something- don't expect him to know when, or understand how important it is for you.
After all is said and done, examine whether this is the man that is right for you.
I disagree with the above poster, I *do* think a relationship is about fulfilling one another's needs. And it *is* fair to expect your partner to help you, understand you, and support you in a relationship (to seek to fulfil your partner's needs) - if it's love this should not be deemed 'resentful'.
We would not seek relationships if we were only satisfied by selfishness. We would not seek relationships if they were not beneficial to our needs. We may be selfish by nature but that's not to say everything we act on or do is decided upon according to personal satisfaction, with disregard for others, for our partners. Love for your partner is about having conciousness of their needs.
My partner accepts that I need him to help me around the house with the chores, being pregnant, I get tired quite quickly, but he doesn't feel forced or resent doing this. He does it through love and because that is what our relationship is built on.
I don't know of any *successful* relationships where the couple do not fulfil eachother's needs, or seek to. Relationships that are completely selfish are not normal, nor are they healthy, nor will they survive.
Sorry mami, I meant to direct my post to CrazyGastro's line of argument about relationships in general. That there are large elements of relationships that aren't based on selfishness. That's what I meant.
I 100% agree in reference to ''affairs'', that those who seek affairs are filled with selfishness and thoughtlessness for the unsuspecting partner. And that sort of selfishness will destroy a relationship and deserves no sympathy.
I think when selfishness takes over a relationship it is doomed to fail.
I hate affairs, they are selfish acts that will only ever destroy people than create anything good.
Affairs are the worst thing you can do to someone. You make them feel unloved, unworthy, insecure, and so many other emotions that I can't even think of right now. I keep trying and it's just not working. I don't think he's still cheating but the trust has not been rebuilt and honestly, he doesn't work hard enough at trying to rebuild it. Every time I get my hopes up thinking things are going to work out, something happens that takes that feeling away.
You are so right about that - I have never felt so insecure in my life after he did that to me. I started to accuse him of wanting her more, of wondering in my head weather she was good in bed (urgh I know, but it's hard not to think of all the details), was her body more appealing than mine, and always concluding that she must have been more appealing, better in bed, and had a better body than me, or else why would he have been turned on by her and found he couldn't say no to her (surely the guilt would have put him off, but no it obviously didn't)... I still find it hard to deal with still. I saw them a lot before my eyes everytime we'd make love, and always thought I am not what she was to him, when we're between the sheets. If it's any consolation I can relate to your pain, so you aren't alone. I wish I could re-write the past myself, and clear the betrayal and pain out of it.
I didn't say a relationship would not involve fulfilling each others needs. But I don't think that is the point of a relationship. People aren't there to serve you, or otherwise.
If your partner loves you and chooses to fulfill one of your needs, remember it's a choice, not a duty. He wasn't born to do those things for you, and neither were you to do them in return.
In the end of the day, it is always one's responsibility to fulfill one's needs... we're each responsible for ourselves. Demanding or expecting that someone else be responsible towards you is bound to create friction and resentment, sooner or later. If you ask something of him and he chooses to do it, because it's in his nature, good for you. Were it not in his nature, you probably would not feel the way you do about him, perhaps, and would have found someone else, eventually.
That's the point. Think of what you want, take responsibility for it, make your choices and live your live. Surround yourself with the people that will help you achieve that vision, who have the qualities you desire. If it's reasonable and realistic, there's no reason why it can't be done.
Also, as to the argument of non-selfishness in a relationship, ask yourself the following.
When he does something willing, is he doing it because of his feelings for you, because he thinks it's good, or *because of you*?
The latter is likely to build up and evetually resurface as resentment. The former are inner, selfish reasons. We feel something strongly we perform an action with the outside world. We think things through rationally to our goal and see that performing a certain action is good. Philosophically these are both selfish reasons for performing what may be perceived as a non selfish action.
A healthy relationship isn't one in which people are constantly doing things against their nature and will, feel forced to do it.
It's one in which they *want* to. And ultimately, due to our closed neural circuits, that desire is *always* an inner one- thus ultimately self-centered.
Peel the onion layers and see.
It's just a choice, really. If you decide that you would like to start that trust over, slowly, over time, you can. But it has to come from an understanding of the present, the past, your current feelings and the ultimate choice that you would like to see things change. Instead of focusing on what you've lost, then, you could choose to focus on how you are feeling now, why you're having those feelings -dig deeper- and more importantly, what you *think*, rationally, of your present relationship and the future potential. Then you can start from where you are, and move forward, perhaps seeing the positive changes, not in comparison with how it happened to be previous to your knowledge of the incident, but how it is now compared to yesterday, say.
One day at a time.
Seems like you need to think it over and figure our what you ultimately want. Either way, in some level you'll have to deal with what happened sooner or later, and accept that he might be a part of your life somehow, since you guys share a child together. Can't run from this one.
It doesn't sound like there's something pressing and immediate that's forcing you to decide now. So, rationally, it seems to me that you could choose to take some time off, reflect over your personal goals and how you see your life in the future. Then start dealing with the past. Once that's all underway, see what you think of your relationship, and whether it fits within the vision you have for your future or not.
That was very helpful, thank you. It's just a lot of things going on right now that makes me doubt him. I don't really want to get into it but I just don't want to feel like the person I'm with will never be able to be truly open and honest with me. It's something that I have to look deep into myself for. I just hate the fact that things go so good and he always manages to do something to damage my trust. I will do what you say though. Thanks.
I don't think there's any real function for talk about Philosophy here. The in-depth analysis of what constitutes selfishness is silly and unnessesary. *wanting* or *desiring* to help your partner, for me, is not selfish, period (weather our inner self is selfish or not). I still believe we can all expect some **self less ness** from our partners from time to time. Those who constantly strive to fufill their own needs and those alone, have not got a character to be proud of, and is a person likely to be very lonely, now or in the future.
There is no selflessness. If he's doing it against his will and taking an emotional blow, he'll either resent it or it's been forced upon him, in which case it's coercion. Just as you would explore your own feelings to discover underlying reasons, philosophy can help create a rational system of thought to discover a basic structure and patterns. It is very useful, if you believe it to be silly, you've missed the point.
If he's doing it on his own will, it isn't selfless... which is healthy. He's doing it for personal reasons, love and feelings sometimes being one of those.
And I disagree wholeheartedly. Those who seek to fulfill their own needs are much more likely to be happy, to understand rationally why it is that they would like to do things directed towards others, so on, so forth. I see evidence of it everyday, surrounding me, and in myself as well. To remain oblivious to the obvious is a simple denial of reality. If you'd like to call an act done towards you, initiated from someone else's personal feelings such as love, which has a basis on the appreciation and admiration for someone else's qualities, self less, simply because it's you that's being overtly affected, be my guest. The label doesn't much matter, the reality is the same, it was never an act for you, but for his love or feelings towards you.
It's just about taking responsibility over our own emotions, desires, choices and actions. Whether you're aware of it or not, everything you do -being physically forced aside- is being done from a self-centered basis. Even if you do something out of guilt, the idea is that you're doing it to avoid your own personal feelings of guilt.
If you disagree, please elaborate on the reason for why you disagree, I would like to know the rationale behind it.
I think what crazy is trying to say is that we should each be complete by ourselves. The ideal partner compliments us, but doesn't complete us. (Sorry, CG, but your wordiness is getting in the way of your message.) And preferably, if our partners do something for us it's because they want to and not because they just think they should. There are a few exceptions to that, like flowers. My dh thinks they are a waste of money; however he buys them for me from time to time because he knows they make my day.
Yes, what mslkpage said - ''if our partners do something for us it's because they want to and not because they just think they should.'' Arguing inside out about how that is ultimately a selfish action really goes off the point. There is no real need to use complex theories to convey a point. That's my belief too mslkpage, I said earlier, my SO helps me with the chores because he wants to help me, not because he thinks he should. I don't think everything we do or act on is derived from our own selfishness, I just don't. And I just thought the 'extra' talk touching on Philosophical ideas of selfishness etc, was a bit extreme when all we are doing is talking about everyday relationships. Just felt that was going off on one. Also, I didn't say that mami's partner was selfless, I was using an example of many different partners. Affairs are sought out of selfishnes.
i wasnt going to comment but i really keep reading what castro has to say and i agree....entirely and i dont think people are able to grasp the concept. I came here searching for an answer to my own problems but castro's insight has really helped me. In him saying human action is inately selfish, i think he is almost 100% correct, even with the "exception" of flowers as someone mentioned i would say it applies. think about it, in the act of a man buying flowers for a woman, he may think its a waste of time.....but he buys them, why? to make you feel good or to see you smile....you say, well thats not selfish.......except you may overlook the FINAL/END result.......when i buy my girlfriend flowers, she is happy and smiles, and in turn I FEEL GOOD because she is happy. Sometimes we dont think about it, we do "selfless/unselfish" acts and think its out of the kindness of our hearts but the ABSOLUTE END RESULT IS THAT WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE. So there is never really a selfless act. It is indeed a selfish act, furthermore, if she wants to reciprocate the action then i "benefit" more and thus a cycle of action and reaction can insue....but only in a healthy relationship where there is always interest with action. (i am assuming a relationship with harmony and "true love" if it exists, as i am one to believe that there is no true love but simply the acceptance of another with whom you can establish a relationship resembling mutualistic/cooperative biological relationships in which both parties benefit in their own increased fitness). if you've never seen the episode of "Friends" where this same topic is an ongoing theme, where phoebe tries to prove an act that is selfless.......then you should really watch it, its easier to understand it through comedy. if you want to understand it further you should take a lesson/class or simply read a book in animal behavior. after all, we ARE animals.....
by the way, i realize this thread is old, 2 years old, but everything i read here really helped me. i hope everyone has resolved their issues, and i hope anyone else who stumbles onto this page can gain from it like i did. g'luck
OMG...LOL...it's funny to see an old thread of mine. Yes, we have resolved our issues. We are still together. We made 8 years on June 11th and it's been almost 3 years since the affair and I can say we made it past the most difficult of times. We still have trust issues now and then but he's really learned how to deal with me when it comes to making me feel comfortable. I also have learned not to care so much about what he's doing all the time. We can't spend our lives always wondering what the other person is doing or it will drive us nuts.
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