Can Buddhist Meditation Replace 12-Step in Managing Sex/Porn Addiction?

[neworleansiscalling]

My partner battles 2 addictions: sex (hundreds of mags and videos stashed away in the attic) and shopping (has paid back a 6-figure cc debt). He has since discovered meditation and practises it for an hour or longer each day. It seems to help; he has become "mindful" of his actions and "egoic" self. However, my concern is related to the benefits of a 12-step program in conjunction with meditation.

You see... both of his addictions are something that he conducts in secrecy, especially from me. After several months of faithful, daily meditation, I discovered that he was shopping online, but it was fairly minor, relative to his past spress. Now I'm waiting to see what else I discover.

Moreover, it's clear that when we are being intimate, he doesn't see it as a spiritual connection... He doesn't understand how sex connects lovers to a higher intimacy. It seems like I don't really need to be there at all.

Isn't it important that he actually joins a 12-step and says the words out loud, "I am a sex and shopping addict," to others, while depending on the group for guidance when he is feeling weak? Otherwise, he only has a non-accountable method of managing his urges. So, is meditation enough?

He is very smart, very charming, manipulative, and can easily talk his way out of anything. I'm so tired of the lying.... Any advice? Please help ~ I am feeling quite hopeless.

[RockRose]

neworleans - is there some reason you're with this "partner"?  He sounds like a trainwreck - is there a positive to the relationship you haven't mentioned?

I think if this works for him,  that's great - although it's not necessarily working. I completely disagree with the 12 step program idea that you have to spill your guts to strangers,  and admit to everyone all the stuff you've done.  I don't think that's necessary,  or helpful,  for every kind of person.

Best wishes.

[mami1323]

Get far away as possible from this toxic individual.  These are two major problems that will bring you down.  First he's addicted to sex, how is it going to be possible for him to be faithful and how can you trust him?  Second, he is a shopoholic who can easily rack up a six figure credit card bill.  That's scary.  What future do you have with him?  He will spend any money you have and drag you into bankruptcy with him.  I just can't understand why you tolerate his behavior.  He doesn't need meditation, he needs therapy.  I don't know what type of life changing meditation he performs but if it's not working than what more can you do.  Or does it work?  I'm a little confused.  If he's lying to you still than what makes you think that there isn't more going on than what you already know.  This just seems like a someone you need to break away from, there are no positives to his character.  

[mayflowers]

One of the ways a person changes is that THEY have the desire to change their behaviors and habits.  From what you've posted, I don't see that he has any real desire to change.  Addictions are hard to beat but they can be beat.  I don't know about the 12-step thing.  I do know it's helped people that have alcohol and drug problems so it would probably help sex addicts and shopping addicts.  Therapy and medication helps too.

I advise letting this guy be alone for a while to work out his issues.   Besides, why get involved with someone who has all these problems?  You deserve better.  

[barn babe]

I also don't see an upside to this relationship. And I also agree that addictions can be overcome, but people who have serious addictions, whether they be drugs, money, booze, sex, gambling, or whatever else, need to be off working on those addictions. They are called addictions for a reason. They are the most important thing in the person's life. Comes before any relationships. Comes before the kids. Comes before any other responsibilities. They can't do without it.

I've not been involved with anybody with addiction issues (I once dated a guy for about 3 weeks before realizing he  was an alcoholic, at which point I bailed). However, I've seen how addictions in partners of my friends can be absolutely ruinous, not only to the relationship, but to the partner's self-esteem. Yeah, I know codependency "theory" has been debunked, but you can't help but recognize that folks who engage with those with serious addictions have some self-esteem issues going on that should probably be addressed.

I've come to believe that addictive personalities have huge narcissistic tendencies going on. Not to mention borderline traits. These are not people who can be satisfactory partners in relationship until the addiction is overcome.

I also believe that people with addictions not only need to overcome the addiction, they need to be "clean and sober" from whatever it is for perhaps many months  before they can engage appropriately with partners.

The credit card thing alone would scare the pants off me. If you for whatever reason  decide to stay with this guy and he miraculously makes some kind of comeback,  get a pre-nup to protect yourself.

[koukla29]

I agree with barn babe.  In addition, his dishonesty alone is alarming.  Why should you have to double check everything he does - why be with someone you can't trust?  Someone who purposely hides things from you?  Obviously, these behaviors are not healthy nor do they mark improvement in his perception of your relationship.  Also, the way you describe your sex life with this man - it doesn't sound like he is focusing on you or your needs.  I would get out of this if I were you before he gets a hold of your credit cards.      

[JohnnyV]

A lot of people on here suffer from Ricki Lake Show Syndrome. "Dump him! Dump him!" Christ, folks, if you aren't willing to stick with someone through something difficult, then you don't belong in a relationship with *anyone.*

The guy's got some addictive tendencies, which he is working on with Buddhist meditation. He's still slipping here and there. At least he's moving in the right direction. Invest in your own karma by not kicking a man while he's down. Then, in the future, when you blow up and gain 80 pounds after a freak accident and get hooked on Vicadin, and are struggling to change but find setback after setback, maybe the universe will be kind and send you an equally patient and considerate soul.

I had a *serious* sex addiction and I overcame it, with a lot of help from my female partner, who offered support and encouragement rather than judgmentality and scorn. Fortunately I am married to a real woman, who knows how to stand by her man when things are tough. I stand by her through whatever she goes through -- and she has gone through a lot. That's how love and relationships are supposed to work. Women who tell you to dump someone because he has problems are either Stepford wives married to boring Stepford husbands, totally blind to crazy **** going on in their husbands' secret lives, or, most likely, NOT MARRIED!

J

[barn babe]

"A lot of people on here suffer from Ricki Lake Show Syndrome."

What the f*ck is the Ricki Lake Show Syndrome? Sorry, "JohnnyV," but I don't have a T.V., and I assume you are referring to some kind of right-wing sensationalist talk show. Maybe you should stop watching the tube so much. Don't you have better ways to spend your time?

"Christ, folks, if you aren't willing to stick with someone through something difficult, then you don't belong in a relationship with *anyone.*"

She said the guy's lying. She said he's engaging in his addictions behind her back. Bottom line? She doesn't need that sh*t. I say leave. His addictive behavior and duplicitousness have apparently gone on even during his "therapy" with Buddhist meditation. You do the math.

"The guy's got some addictive tendencies, which he is working on with Buddhist meditation."

It doesn't appear to be working, though, does it, "JohnnyV?"  He's still pulling the sh*t behind her back, hiding his behavior, and lying about it. He also apparently zones out during sex. How long would you put up with that? There's a reason why many experts recommend "cold-turkey" habit-kicking - because "dabbling" in the addiction doesn't move you even an inch down the road towards recovering. For many people, continued exposures to the addictive behavior, even if they are small, like "just one drink on the weekends," or whatever, do nothing to help in extinguishing the behavior. Actually, that sounds like what we have in this case.

" He's still slipping here and there. At least he's moving in the right direction."

No. He's engaging in his behaviors  while also engaging in his so-called therapeutic modality of "meditation." He's gaming himself and his partner with this technique. Nothing new here. This is quite common for addicts of all stripes. Repeated exposures like this tend to feed the denial of the addict that they are "moving towards recovery." Staying in denial doesn't move you further towards kicking the habit. It's an endless cycle.

"Invest in your own karma by not kicking a man while he's down."

I'm sorry, I wasn't in line while they were passing out the new-age fairy dust. What does this mean again? Some of us don't buy into magical thinking.

"Then, in the future, when you blow up and gain 80 pounds after a freak accident and get hooked on Vicadin (sic), and are struggling to change but find setback after setback, maybe the universe will be kind and send you an equally patient and considerate soul."

We have to take responsiblity for our behavior, and if we are in relationships, we damn well better do our best not to hurt our partners. Nobody said life was fair, or easy. Setbacks happen. But we are talking about physical and psychological addictions here. I have to stand by my post that these types of behavior disorders need the full attention of the person with the addiction in order to be overcome. It's not easy. Nobody said it was. If an alcoholic finds "setback after setback" in trying to kick his habit, meaning that his partner and the relationship end up severely damaged because of that, should the partner stick around? I don't think that has much to do with the "universe" sending us a "patient and considerate soul." That has to do with a person who is so out of control of his impulsive behavior because of an addiction that his behavior then negatively impacts everybody around him. There is nothing new-agey about that.

If somebody is checked out of reality to the point that they are drunk or high on Vicodin much of the time or has out of control spending habits that are going to take me down with him, or, at the very least, cause me considerable emotional turmoil, I'll leave.

"I had a *serious* sex addiction and I overcame it, with a lot of help from my female partner, who offered support and encouragement rather than judgmentality and scorn. Fortunately I am married to a real woman, who knows how to stand by her man when things are tough."

Okay, you can stop with the "real woman" sh*t. You're dating yourself - like back to the 1900s.  We can do without it, frankly. Good for your partner. She does not represent all women, so you can't judge what others might do if confronted with the same problem. Also, your remarks reed of sexism, so knock it off. It's unbecoming, to say the least.

"That's how love and relationships are supposed to work. Women who tell you to dump someone because he has problems are either Stepford wives married to boring Stepford husbands, totally blind to crazy **** going on in their husbands' secret lives, or, most likely, NOT MARRIED!"

More assumptions because it deviates from your world-view. That's a pretty narrow viewpoint, "JohnnyV."  Here's how "love and relationships" work to me, in a nutshell: I respect my partner, I love him, I want as much for him as I want for myself. If he begins engaging in behavior that is harmful to me, or to the relationship, and that behavior doesn't change, after discussion, perhaps after some therapy, or with him finding his own techniques ("Buddhist meditation") to figure out how to combat his problem, I'm gone.

What you are essentially describing is unconditional love. Sorry, but unconditional love should be restricted to children and pets. Unconditional love has no place when we are discussing  rational, responsible, emotionally healthy adults  in relationships.  My partner doesn't deserve my "unconditional" love. He has to earn my love, through his behavior, through his actions. And I have to earn his - through my behavior and through my actions.  And if he continues to engage in hurtful behaviors - harmful to me, harmful to my relationship with him - and those behaviors can't be worked through to the satisfaction of BOTH partners, the relationship won't work.

[koukla29]

I have to agree with much of what Barnbabe has said.  JohnnyV you overcame your addiction and I have to commend you for that.  It could not have been easy for you or your partner.  Therefore, kudos for being willing to change your behavior from the harmful to the caring and nurturing.  

The condition being described here, though is none of these.  From what I can gather from the OP's comments, her partner is not really willing to change to the point of giving up the addiction, but rather just modifying his behavior enough to keep her.

Forgiveness, compassion, and loyalty (trust) must be earned by consistent behavior that shows that he is willing to protect the relationship.  It does not sound like he has reached the point of being willing to really change (e.g., "rock bottom).

I am not doubting the fact that he loves her but the behavior shows that he does not put the relationship above his need for a "fix".  Therefore,  the addiction continues to run his life.  She has stated that he is not even "present" during making love.  This along with the debt issues would be enough to worry me.

As far as the other comments you made about the stepford wives and NOT MARRIED, you are letting your emotions govern your thoughts to the point of being downright prejudicial towards women.

Your situation is great that you were able to overcome and she was able to stand by your side.  However, you showed changes to make her be willing to stay and work with you.  It does not sound like that is truly the case here.

[shishka]

I agree 100% with JonnyV. When you get into marriage you amd your partner becomes "WE" and as WE you overcome difficulties in your life. First you need to give your 100% before deciding if you should dump him. You have to try everything in your power to save your marriage. If that does not work maybe then you think about divorce. I don't understand how can someone just say dump him. I guess divorce is very common these days.

[barn babe]

Did you even read the history of this relationship?

Addictions are not something you can "solve" for your partner. They overtake the life of the person engaged in them, and they are ruinous for spouses and family members. If your partner  tries over and over again to kick his or her habit, and continues to fail, how long  do you expect any intelligent and emotionally healthy person to hang  on? Why should you let your partner take you down with them?  

Your opinion about divorce rates isn't relevant to this discussion.

[bip]

I agree...

[BearHitch]

The Ricky Lake Show Syndrome made me laugh- some things that people us for examples!  Anyway, to the OP, I agree that you should probably not stick around in this relationship.  In my opinion, if your partner really wanted to change, they wouldn't need to lie to you.  Its great to hear of people overcoming their addictions, but one of the things in a marriage / relationship you need is accountability- if he really wanted to get over this, he would let you help him and not need to hide things to you.  Getting over an addiction, to me, would be impossible without some form of accountability- and I don't think meditation would be able to suffice for that.  Plus, 6 figure credit card debt is a LOT of money- I don't really know that the "shopaholic" thing actually exists, because that sounds pretty reckless to me.  Good luck!