Honesty

Need advice. My husband and I have been married for 23 years. Nineteen years into it I found out he had an affair. I freaked out but we worked it out. I choose to forgive but that did not mean I forgot. It took me about three years to really begin to feel ok. But a year after it ended almost to the day, I found out he was in a friendship with another female co worker. When I confronted him about it he denied it. I packed my bags and left. I did go confront her and I found out it was just friends but not all innocent. A lot of flirting but she said that was all. ( I don't give a crap! Still wrong) I could not believe after all we went through he would jeopardize our relationship again. He said it was b/c I was always questioning him about where and what he was doing and with whom. DUH! Anyway three years down the road, I have a friend who was being very flirty and making remarks to him. I told him I was not comfortable with it. He said he knew and was keeping his distance from her but then one of our kids went in the hospital and we would take turns staying with her, well my friend would come visit only when my husband was there. When I asked him he said no but when I confronted him with truth he said it he lied b/c he knew I would make a big deal our of nothing. IT is the LYING that is getting to me. I do not believe he was interested in her in any way shape or form. Needless to say once again I left, went away for the weekend. Now three months later I ask him if he payed my parents back some money he owed them ( while I was away with sick child, car broke down, my parents gave him the money to get it fixed ) he said yes, well a week later my mom tells me in casual convo " It was nice to visit with ******** last night." my response " when was he there? She proceeded to say that while I was at swim with my youngest that my husband came over and paid them. WHAT!!!! Really. I thought he had already. When I confronted him he said he did not want to hear me lecture him about how he should pay them asap., so he lied to me. So yesterday I am cleaning our bed room and I find all these lottery tickets. Okay , you may think no big deal but that is something we agreed  not to do nor football pools etc at this time b/c we are seriously in a crunch financially. We have one very sick child and one special needs child. The gas alone running back and forth for treatments and food during hospital stays alone kills us.

I just handed them to him when he got home and told him to pack his bags and get out! I am sick of the lies.
He refuses to leave. Said he is not giving up on us, but honestly, I have nothing left. I am worn out taking care of the kids and working when I am able to. The one person I was suppose to be able to lean on for support is the biggest disappointment to me. You may say give him a chance, that is what he says but every time something comes up he says " I will change or I'm sorry I hurt you."Whatever.

So, I am stuck, I refuse to leave my children. Yet I can't stand to live with a liar and a cheat who swares he will change but never will. The kids ( we have three of them) know something is going on b/c if he is home I am not . And I am sleeping in the little one's room with him. So what do I do now

[specialmom]

Oh my goodness.  Well, clearly there is a lot of stress going on in your life.  I have a special needs child too and that is quite a bit of work and having a sick child is every parent's nightmare.

Listen, you are at this point picking at him in my opinion.  He's afraid of your reactions and feels it is safer to fib than to face your anger.  What if he didn't have the cash before to pay your parents.  He DID pay them.  So what, he bought some lottery tickets.  My husband does it once in a while when he has that thought 'what if' when we don't have money to spare either.  

He screwed up before for sure and that is hard to get over.  But the guy can't be the bad guy from here on out.  I get that you are suspicious of him and it appears ALL the time and that will get old for him as it does for you.  

For the most part, is he trying to be your husband and a father to the kids?  It sounds like it to me.  

I am thinking you won't have time or resources for it now, but counseling would be really helpful.  Insurance will often cover some sessions or you can check into perhaps going through a minister at your church if you belong to one or the YWCA in your area.

good luck

[Life360]

You have alot of years invested in this and also young children who will need some fatherly support. Aside from the cheating affair and the friend meeting him at the hospital,  i think hes other actions like the lying about the lottery have been created by both of you. He is avoiding confrontations with you much like a mother and child relationship. He is being irresponsible but he does have things he like to do. Men are like this, kind of childish when it comes to answering the wife. The cheating thing bothers me also and you were a big person to accept it. I could not. You do have a right to end this but what plans do you have? There is the financial problem to deal with. If leaving him will jeprodize your sick childs welfare, i would just lay low till things are to a point where all will be ok. Becoming indepentant again will require financial stability. What plans do you have to generate an income?

[specialmom]

Oh my goodness.  Well, clearly there is a lot of stress going on in your life.  I have a special needs child too and that is quite a bit of work and having a sick child is every parent's nightmare.

Listen, you are at this point picking at him in my opinion.  He's afraid of your reactions and feels it is safer to fib than to face your anger.  What if he didn't have the cash before to pay your parents.  He DID pay them.  So what, he bought some lottery tickets.  My husband does it once in a while when he has that thought 'what if' when we don't have money to spare either.  

He screwed up before for sure and that is hard to get over.  But the guy can't be the bad guy from here on out.  I get that you are suspicious of him and it appears ALL the time and that will get old for him as it does for you.  

For the most part, is he trying to be your husband and a father to the kids?  It sounds like it to me.  

I am thinking you won't have time or resources for it now, but counseling would be really helpful.  Insurance will often cover some sessions or you can check into perhaps going through a minister at your church if you belong to one or the YWCA in your area.

good luck

[mhappysong]

Thank you. Special mom, you are right. I am picking. And we are in counseling. The counselor even told him I hate being this way but he is like a selfish child and does not get it. You see, not only is it the money thing with the lottery, it is against our religious belief and his parents divorced due to his fathers alcohol and gambling addictions. Before we married we agreed that we would not open that door.

I get that he is stressed, as much, if not more then I am. We have a child who we do not know if they are promised next year, one with Aspergers , one graduating in June and looking to go to college. But that does not mean he has the right to act out on that frustration.

The counselor has told him nicely at first " Grow up, be a man, Be a dad. Stop running from reality."  She told me, stop trying to be super mom and ask for help. Get away, do something for you.

I ask him for help and I have to step in b/c next thing I know he is screaming at our son and calling him stupid and what not.
When we go into session he says all the right things, " I know I'm wrong, I know I have hurt you and the kids , I will try to do better" and for a day or two he does and once I let my guard down. He does it again.

He leaves for work at 7am. I take the boys to school at 7:40, had to quit the gym when our daughter lost use of one of her legs. I walk in from taking the boys and have to bathe her, feed her, give her meds, do her exercises with her, then take her to the office with me and help her keep up on her study. Pick the boys up, drop her to mom's take one to PT ( 3x a week) for an acl injury, come home, get her, feed two kids and off to counseling with the youngest  once a week and OT swim four times a week. What does dad do? Comes home and putters, takes a nap, goes to friends houses. I come home, feed youngest and myself and then it is homework time and more exercise for our daughter.  I ask dad to help with homework while I work with our girl but before I know it there is a major melt down while my ten year old is swearing and hitting and dad is calling him stupid and wrestling him down. So, yes, I am nit picking. I am ready to break. Then I go out in public like I have it all together, where lately all I want to do is throw the blankets over my head and sleep.

[mhappysong]

wow, as I read that, I realize how bitter I sound. Truth is I am. Our life may not be what we planned but it is what we have been given and I love my kids unconditionally and I guess I expect the same from their father.  I know he was an only child and spoiled to the core by his mom, but it is like he refuses to grow up. He has always been self centered and I was ok with it, did not like it but handled it but five years ago when our daughter got sick, I really needed him to step up to the plate. He did in some ways but then dealing with our son I guess was to much and he just gave up. I feel he wants the benefits of marriage and a family but not to do the work. He admits he is jealous over the time I give to the kids but that is b/c I have to because he doesn't.

[brice1967]

Oh man.  I am sorry that you guys are going though all of this.  It is a bad spot for all involved, I am sure.  So much stuff going on....

Anyhow, I would like to comment on the thought of therapy.  I have recently finished one hell of a lot of therapy.  For a long time, I was going twice a week, and for a long time after, 1 time a week.  I want to comment on something that I learned and it help me understand my situation and my marriage a lot better.

This is not meant to come across as accusatory and I am certainly not talking down to anyone... This is just a reality in this situation and it can hold hope for you....

As for the therapist asking your husband to 'step up and start being a man" and "stop running from reality"....  What I want to point out is that there are multiple realities here.  (BY the way, I think your husband does have a lot of work to do)  There is the reality of what you are going through and feeling, the reality of what each individual child is going through and feeling and also what your husband is going through and dealing with.

Just telling the man to step up is going to do nothing, real fast.  There are obviously some problems, and until he can voice what they are or until a therapist can find out what they are, they will continue to be a problem.  (Men typically have a real hard time admitting having issues.  We are supposed to be the big strong warriors that are supposed to be able to sweep all of your problems away.  We can't have problems.... it shows weakness... (that's how mens heads work))

Honestly, your husband sounds an awful lot like me.  I was going through some of the same things.  My deal was, I didn't want to expose my demons, so I continued to repress them.  I would know that I was not being a good husband and father, so I would straighten up for a while and then my depression would set back in.  It was back and fourth until I got some good one on one therapy.  I think your husband is depressed.... you might be too and it is all understandable.  There is a lot of stuff going on.

I would speak to the therapist about a different approach to this.  (When we were in couples therapy, often the therapist would "side" with me.  That drove my wife crazy... it wasn't that the therapist was siding with me, but was validating what I was going through.... that may or may not be happening here....  Good luck

[mhappysong]

Thanks Brice1967. You are right. She does side with me 100% of the time. She was shocked that it took 3 months for me to mention the affair. Honestly so was my husband. He did go alone this week for the first time, seeing I just could not make the appointment. She did tell him he was depressed and he said alot of it had to deal with his childhood.

The funny thing is, I posted this off my Ipad while waiting for my son in PT. I got home to find my husband home ( took off work 2 hours early). He had picked up our youngest ( one he has trouble connecting with) taken him for a walk, Picked up dinner ( thank God b/c I did not know when I was going to cook.) and now took our youngest to swim!  My parent's came and picked up our daughter to take he out to eat with them  and our eldest son is at soccer practice. I was able to take a nice long hot bath! Something I have not done in over 4 months!

I am happy to see him get the message but I will be honest. There is a part of me that thinks " Okay, how long will this last". I do not want him to do it all. I just want help. And honesty. You know I would not have been mad about paying my parents or even the lottery if he would have said no, I totally forgot to pay them back and yes, I am playing the lottery. Well, I probably would have got annoyed a bout the lotto but dropped it.  I was  not even mad about my friend thing until he lied to me about it. Did not suspect him AT ALL but then lying made me a bit nervous.

[Nighthawk61]

i'm so glad to hear that the therapy this week worked for your husband. I don't think that it's a coincidence that individual therapy worked wonders. I think he needs individual treatment even more so right now than marital treatment. I think working on his depression alone, with the therapist will result in the kind of things that are happening now at home. You've said that your therapist is 100% on your "side". The issues that you're having probably need to be given a chance to change rather than to talk about them over and over. I'm glad that under the circumstances he felt comfortable enough to go to the appointment with this particular therapist on his own, because he is aware that the therapist "is on your side 100%". A lesser man would have refused to go to this particular therapist. I hope that individual therapy will work wonders for your husband, as well as marital therapy, but i think you have to be careful  to give things a chance to heal, give him some time with his own therapist. Maybe he needs to find his own therapist, instead of using the marital therapist. Maybe he would be more comfortable talking to a man? (if he is talking to a woman, or vice versa) It really sounds like he wants help, and is willing to work at home to make things better. Please don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[mhappysong]

Your right. He said she did tell him that he had checked out of being a father but it was due to not knowing how to cope with it. He felt abandoned by his own dad . He also admitted that it was easier to have an affair, kind of like a break from reality but he did not mean to hurt me. ( Now in my mind I'm like Duh!)

He told me last night that deep down he wishes it were just the two of us again. And that kinda hurt, but I did not say anything. I know he loves his kids but just does not know how to handle the stress. And I in turn try to handle it all and then b/c I don't want to take it out on the kids I take it out on him.

[mhappysong]

Okay, this is what I am talking about! How the heck am I suppose to be positive! We are in the middle of Hurricane Sandy, kids are home, our youngest is having anxiety attacks, thus effecting his behavior. My husband is at work, I get it, he works outside, had a bad day. But he walks in the door , I am dealing with our son, who was told to unload the dishwasher and is refusing to do it b/c he does not want to go in kitchen for fear of tree falling and coming in the window. I tell him ok, then go up stairs to your room and play a video game for awhile ( calms him down) but he says NO, and is just freaking out in kitchen. My husband walks in the door and says " stop being a baby and just unload the damn dishwasher. " Son starts screaming :" I hate you, you Jerk. Before you know it they are screaming at each other. I tell my husband to back off and he starts screaming at me. I take our son and go upstairs, we read and he calms down but now I am pissed

[TTinKKerBBell]

How old is this Son who screams at His Dad, says He hates Dad, and calls Dad a jerk??  I wonder if Dad started screaming at You because You told Him to "back off" instead of supporting Him as a Parent??
Maybe this should be addressed in Your next counseling session.  It's the ideal for Mom and Dad to be united as Parents.  Your Son learned tonight that He can scream at Dad, call Dad names and Mom will side with Him.  You're pissed, Dad is pissed and Son sees that Mom will side with Him when He shows Dad disrespect.  Is this the same Son You mentioned in an earlier post who was swearing at and hitting at His Dad?  I foresee more problems ahead.

[Nighthawk61]

I hear that two people that are in therapy have not gotten to the point of stopping and considering what they are doing and what they are saying. One thing that is not going to change is the fact you have a son who is acting his age, and making demands on your relationship. That's a given, although if i had gotten to the point of treating myself to therapy i would probably include my son. Anyone can benefit from therapy. It's a gift to talk to a therapist and find new ways of interacting with loved ones. Both you and your husband, knowing that an incident will occur that will test your strengths. You must both learn to take a deep breath and think to yourselves STOP, WAIT, THINK NOW ACT. If your husband makes a mistake (in his therapy) and does not work his program of healthy interaction by saying, "okay, I understand that you're afraid son, the safest place for you to be is in the basement, and not near any windows" (maybe we can set up a television down there and the family can spend the night together.)  then your reaction must be, STOP WAIT, THINK NOW ACT. You then should ideally try to stop the fallout from your husband's gaff. Try to fix the problem for your son and your husband. As far as your son is concerned, the above statement about going to the safest place in the house makes sense for you to sum up the family conversation.

Instead of immediately sabotaging the new relationship that you're working so hard to procure with your husband, you could also recognize what the last poster has brought up and not use words that would further divide your family. You could have, obviously, stopped, and thought before you spoke out spontaneously. I often have to stop and think before i speak with my son, so that i'm acting in a responsible manner.  l'm a very spontaneous person, by nature, and it's hard but it becomes a good habit. I am more respected than i ever was before i learned to stop and think by my son and my husband. I'm not suggesting i'm perfect, i'm saying that you can learn ways of changing the way that the family communicates. It's very possible, but it takes practice. Right now the same things are happening, that's all. Until you have a concrete plan to stop the way that you are all spontaneously communicating with one another, of course the same conversations will continue to happen.

In all of our greatest programs of change there is a spiritual element. We humble ourselves asking for direction and look for another way of being, to live a more authentic life. There's two adults and one child in your post. You need all to be in a program of change. Read about effective assertive communication, and teach your child that you are all learning a different way to communicate and ask him if he would please be involved in that change.

Dad has the stress of working for a living. Let your son know that his dad is doing a job everyday to support his family and has stress that your son cannot fully grasp. Your son needs to be able to have respect for his father, and this can be achieved with peace and understanding.

I wish your family well, going forward, trying new ways to change the dynamics of your family's communications. God be with you all.

[mhappysong]

Our son has Aspergers syndrome.  Granted a child should not talk to an adult the way he does and he does suffer the consequences of it but at a later time. We have been told by doctors and conselors in the middle of anxiety attack or out burst not to deal with it but to get him to a safe place in his mind, emotions and settings. My husband hears this, agrees to do it but then gets caught up in the moment and does the opposite.  IDK maybe we should come up with a code word or something that lets the other one know to step back. I have been there, there are times he has to tell me , you are to emotional let me deal with it and I am thankful when he does, but I can not tell him without him freaking out.  It;s not just home, he was spoken to at work by a supervisor for a minor mistake he made and he freaked out and started throwing attitude with him, well he got written up. He has problems with being corrected in anyway shape or form. And as his wife, I feel like I shouldn't have to correct him. IDwant to correct him. I am not his mother but he leaves me no options.
He structurally has become physical with our son. So yes, I get very defensive.

I want my marriage to work, but not at the risk of our children. Yes, our youngest knows how to play us against one another. But I feel if my husband would work with us (  doctors, therapist and myself) we could really get on the right page.

The affair thing, yes it hurt, second time let a knife to the chest but I choose to stay and work on that. And yes, he feels like a jerk so I try not to even bring it up. But this is a whole new issue. Hurt me, OK I can deal with it but when it involves one of the kids, that is where I draw the line.

[TTinKKerBBell]

OMGollymhappysong,
I understand what You've just told me about Your Son - maybe I missed something along the way - but I did not realize.  I do understand about Aspergers syndrome - so please, I hope You will accept my sincere apology.  That puts a different spin on what I thought was happening.

I have a deeper understanding of Your feelings AND Your issues.  As You say, Your Husband knows the situation also - I understand Your frustation if You feel He's not stepping up and doing the "best He can" as a Father and as a Husband as well.
I really, REALLY feel I was not understanding the situation - 1000 of the Most Sincere Apologies!!

You're to be commended for "forgiving" the affair but, I agree - we don't sacrifice our Children and Their well being!!

[mhappysong]

No worries. I was not offended. I pretty much was just venting. I am really trying not to be a nag to my husband. Unfortunately I have a type A - personality. The oldest of 8 children and he was an only child of divorce. I need to stop looking at the negative all the time and think about why I fell in love with him. I really do not want to drive him away and to someone else again.  I just feel helpless and alone. I am totally overwhelmed with trying to keep the peace and keep everyone happy all the time. I guess I just want to be selfish for once. I think what about me, what about how I feel and the sacrifices I have had to make. I would do it all over again for my kids, but I feel he regrets having children. It hurts and I feel I do not have the support I as well as the family, need from him.

[TTinKKerBBell]

Thanx for accepting my apology - I meant it sincerely.
  
I would like to point out that You say You feel Helpless and Alone, You say You feel Overwhelmed with trying to keep Peace and keep EveryOne Happy all the time.  You say You feel He regrets having Children, that You do not have Support from Him.  Is He "adding" to Your stress? and if He is -perhaps You have to re-think if His presence is Helpful to the Family.  You said You need to think about why You fell in Love with Him but at that time You had no way of foreseeing the Future, no way of knowing how He might "step up" to difficult situations - but You DO know those things now.  It's hard!! I know!! (as in, I've been there and I've done that) but sometimes what We have to do is weigh the Good against the Bad.  There is ALWAYS Good and Bad in EVERY Relationship, in EVERY Family unit - if the Good outweighs the Bad, then We are okay but if the Bad outweighs the Good, then We are "obligated" to make changes when there are Children.  Once We have Children, it'd no longer about Us - it's about THEM.  WE are the adults and We are OBLIGATED to do the Very Best We Can For Our Children, With or Without Our Husband - He has that same Obligation - These Children DID NOT ask to be brought into the midst of Our problems - WE brought Them in and We are OBLIGATED to do the best We can for Them!!
I understand that He might have had a difficult ChildHood (didn't We all?? to some degree or another??) BUT there does come a time when We MUST realize that WE are responsible for the Adult We "choose" to be - and as Adults, We should have learned "something" from Our Own upbringing that We can apply to being better Parents to OUR Babies.  It always, and it STILL, comes down to "choice".  Do We "choose" to be "poor" Adults and blame it on Our ChildHood - or do We "choose" to give more to Our Own Children than We feel We had?????
I want to apologize again if I might sound a bit callous - but I Truely feel that We cannot "blame" our Adult Behaviors, our Adult Choices on our ChildHoods, as We do have, We really, really do have Choices!!
Personally, I had a "bad", a Very, Very bad ChildHood witch gave/left me with MUCH pain and anguish - BUT, I do NOT blame the choices I made on others.  My choices may have been poor - but the "responsibility" of those choices are mine.  This is simply my Own Feeling, my Own
Perception of my Own Life - I would hope from my words that You take what might be usable for You and simply leave whatever is not.
Good Luck.  I Wish You Well

[mhappysong]

Have had two good days. That is so sad! That I have to measure it like that. My son and my husband both had counseling yesterday. My husband has been going alone due to the fact that I just can not fit it in my schedule right now. I took our son to his and my husband drove 45 min in the opposite direction for his. Our son's counselor told me he is now beginning to work with Josh on taking responsibility for his actions and how they effect the rest of the family. So this morning while getting ready for school he decided to sit down and watch the news with his older brother, but refused to go brush his teeth and hair. His brother starts yelling your gonna make us late again and so on. Usually it sparks a fight but I just looked at the younger and said " Do you see how your behavior effects your brother? " He actually got up and went and finished getting ready. I now that may not seem like much to most but that is a major step in the right direction for us. But more amazingly is that while this was going on my husband stayed calm. Reiterated to our son, " If your mom said go do it then you need to make the choice of doing what your told or suffer the consequence and I am proud of you for choosing to do what was right."  Maybe there is hope for us!

[mhappysong]

wow lots of type o's in that statement above. It is not that I do not want to go to counseling with my husband, just crazy busy and it is good for him to go alone. Once things settle here I will begin going again. Right now I am busy in the morning taking care of our daughter ( who is progressing wonderfully with her mobility and starting to be able to walk again without assistance.) Then I go into work for four hours ( thank God I work for family and they allow me all the time I need) Then I pick my daughter and older son up and take them to PT ( Son, suffered an injury during soccer) . Spend two hours there, then home to feed them quickly and then off to Counseling or OT with our youngest. I am also the maid of honor in a wedding this weekend UGH! Can't wait to have a day where I can just sleep in and do nothing.