I don't love my husband and my child

I've been married for 5 years. My child is 3 years old now. 3 month after she was born I learned that my husband cheated on me with his Ex. I found a letter from Family court which stated that she filed for child support for her daughter who is only six month older than mine. It was my husband's child.. Which they conceived after we got married.
I was shocked, I felt like my life was destroyed. I didn't divorce my husband, because I had this baby to care for. Plus I have no family in the US, but my husband, so I nowhere to go. I felt depressed, and tried to commit suicide. It took me a year to get use too idea that my live will never be the same, and family that I have always dreamed of will never happened to me. I am all better now, but unfortunately I don't have any love left for my husband. I can't stand him, every time I look at him I see person who lied to me while promised to make me happy.  having sex with him is a night mare for me. And the worst thing of all, I don't love my child. I feel like I got trapped into this life because of her. Every time I look at her, all I can think of is that if I didn't have her I would be free from this man, who betrayed me and destroyed my marriage. She loves her father very much, they are the best friends in the whole world.
I really want to leave my husband, but if I do what should I do about my daughter? I don't want people around me think that I am a bed mother if I leave her too. But If I take her with me she will be devastated; her father is everything for her.
I am lost, and don't know what to do.

[teko]

Even thinking about committing suicide over a man in my opinion is insane. I can understand the pain you are feeling but hey! Get a life! It took both of you to lay down and conceive that child and if it is anyones fault it is certainly not the childs. How about a mistake in judgemnt on your part?  If you do not love your husband then take the child or dont take the child and leave for cryin out loud, in case you hadnt noticed you are in America. You only have yourself to blame if you cannot succeed, but blaming a child for your torn relationship is silly. Thank your lucky stars you found out what kind of a man he is now rather than when your too old to start over and make a good life for yourself.

[RockRose]

MNB - I think you should give real thought to leaving,  and leaving your daughter with the parent who loves her.

Other people discovering that you don't love your daughter is such a miniscule point in this whole sad picture - anyone who knows you well already knows this,  so their opinion of what kind of a mother you are won't change much.

Her concept of relationships,  and her self-worth,  and her place in the world is being formed right now - and has been for the last three years.  Her mother looks at her every day with resentment and wishes she were never born - she will not grow into a functioning woman in that kind of an environment.  

Her dad does love her,  and she loves him,  and is warm and caring with her,  and under his nurturing eye,  she feels good about herself.

What he did was wrong,  what you are doing to your little daughter is 1000 times worse in my opinion.

[Agiesmom]

I agree with RR--you should leave your husband and leave your daughter with her father.  You will do more damage to her being around her feeling the way you do about her than you would being absent from her life.  Maybe your husband's mother or sister or some other positive, loving, nurturing woman can somehow fill a bit of the void of not having a loving mother in her life.  But if you stay, you will do a lot more damage being around her while feeling the way you do about her--no matter how wonderful your husband is to her or how loving and adoring her grandma or aunt are, you will destroy all that--all she'll want to do is get you to love her.  She deserves better than that.

[kjbandme]

I think you cannot love even yourself right now. You must remove yourself from the situation.  I believe you love your daughter and yourself but you've been so mistreated that it is buried. Being an immigrant can be a cold experience and I'm sorry that people on this forum are not more sensitive!!

Take time to do whatever you need to do to heal your heart and leave your daughter with her dad for a while. Then decide what to do about your whole situation.

[MNBVC13]

Thank you for your respond.
You are absolutely right I can't love myself right now. Its killing me just to think that I have thoughts about not loving my child. I was so happy when she was born, I was waiting for that moment with such excitement. Those 3 month were the happiest in my life. I had everything I ever wanted and dreamed of. Then everything changed. I don't have many friends so I have no one to talk to so I keep all my feelings to myself. I really don't want to be that mother who abandoned her child.  I hope I will figure out what I have to do in the near future.

[katarina777]

Give it some time, and forgive yourself. Don't hate yourself. How much this must hurt you!! You have an awful lot of courage to speak your truth here. And I believe as long as you speak the truth, and it really helps to speak it out loud,
there is hope for your recovery. I believe in you already for that reason. I know you feel terribly stuck and it seems like things will never change. they may not change in any way you can envision, but they will change in ways you cannot. Kat

[KATE535]

I have had experience within my wider-family of a mum who suffered depression. She felt she was a bad person and she didn't feel love for anyone - she was just numb by her illness. I think you may be suffering from a form of depression because of the pain this has brought you. The months after having a baby are very tender - for mum as well as baby - for something as horrible as this to have happened to you at this sensitive time - when your emotions are up and down, I am not surprised you became negative to all around you. Unfortulately this occurred around your child too and she has got caught up in it.
Yes you shouldn't ever feel you need to forgive your husband as he his a cheating scumbag ultimately, but I think you can find it within yourself, when you've left him and you no longer have to think about what he did by looking at him everyday, to love your child. She will only ever love you, unlike him - a liar, a cheat, a looser. She is **Worth So Much More than him**. Keep your pain and hate towards him seperate from your feelings for your daughter and you too will feel for her in different ways than him. All good feelings!!
I think you may be depressed, so your emotions are flat and numb.
You will heal - without him - with your daughter - when you are ready for her.
There is nothing wrong with leaving them temporarily to get your self better. Then go to her.
Really wish you well !! Your husband can Rot...
x

[MNBVC13]

Thank you all for your advice and support.
Telling the truth, I thought about leaving him for a while. I thought, maybe I feel that way because he is there all the time, and when I leave him everything will change. I am just afraid to live my daughter. What if I come back for her, and my husband won't let me take her?

[RockRose]

If you leave and then much later come back for her,  you probably don't stand much of a chance in the courts - although your daughter might  want to know you and interact with you.

I think the advise about depression was probably good - can you get help for clinical depression?

[AnnaE]

Your husband is a jerk. He is likely only manipulating the child to hurt you. Wht would he be a good parent, if he cannot work on his marriage. I would not leave a child with a person who betrayed her mother. I think you are depressed and confused. Please seek couseling that is positive. Possibly may take more than one try. Also seek a supprt group and a parenting group, so that you can realize how a child needs a dependable parent.

[SeriousSam]

With the thoughts you say you are having leave her and try to get joint custody with him as the primary.  To often parents who are depressed or suicidal try killing the child too when they are feeling down.  your child desrves better than yhat.

[SeriousSam]

Who gives a flip whether people think badly about you, why should it mattr if you do what is best for your child?  Who even cares in America where some forms of birth control last longer than marriages?

It sounds like the man is a lousy husband and a great father.  It happens.  Iam more concerned that you guys didn't seek counseling on an individual or marital basis

[MNBVC13]

I talked to my husband about counseling, unfortunately, he thinks it's a waste of time. And for some reason he thinks that whatever I do We have to do it together, It's like he is taking over my life, when my daughter was small, I would go at night to change her diaper, or feed her; he would come with me, stand there and watch. We grocery shop together, if I have to go to the post office he is there, my friends stopped inviting me over because He'd would come even if it "girls night" only. That is his way of helping I guess. At first it didn't seems bed, but now, I can't get away from him.
See, I don' work, so I don't have my own money, he comes everywhere with me to pay for whatever I buy. Sometimes, I have to justify why I buying something, he tells me what kind food is better, what drinks to buy, and so on. I've been on my own since 18, and did very well without help. He makes me feel like I'm 3 years old. In order to get some space I put my daughter into a day care, and decided to start school, he can't follow me there. So, he stopped working I lost DSS coverage for the day care because didn't have proof of income. My daughter had to stop going to the DC and my husband stays home with her. His explanation for his actions is that my child deserves better than leaving her with a strangers. I keep telling him that it has to stop, but he doesn't listen to me, or doesn't want to listen.
I guess When I wrote that I don't love her, I was really upset. Sometimes,  things get overwhelming and I feel like run away. The only reason I still with him is my daughter,  I see how much she loves him, and because I was raised by a single mother, I want her to have what I didn't. I can always find a man for myself, but no man in the world will love my daughter as much as her dad does.
Now when I writing, I see that a lot of my problems comes from me, and my inability to do something to change my life. I don't know where I went  wrong. Maybe it was my mistake when I decided to stay and try to safe something that couldn't be saved.

[mami1323]

She can still have her dad without the two of you being together.  You can do joint custody, just because your relationship didn't work out doesn't mean you both can't be the best parents to your child.  When Sam mentioned counseling it means together, not just individual.  Although, I do think individual is necessary as well, but you need to go to couples counseling to work on your issues as a couple. If you feel that there is no point in salvaging the relationship then you both need to discuss what you want to do when it comes to your daughter.  

[MNBVC13]

I even asked him if maybe we can send our daughter to my mother for a while, and try to work things out between us, but he want even consider.  Certainly, I will get some sort of therapy for myself,  maybe It will help me to see the way to fix my life with minimum negative consequences for  my child.

[mami1323]

I don't think it will help if you send her away.  Resolving your issues as a family has to be done that way.  You can work on the two of you without having it effect your daughter if you both are mature and willing to think of how best to solve the situation without completely uprooting her life.  Children are all about consistency, you can't just take her out of the environment she is used to.  You are parents first and foremost so her needs are just as important.  But you both can not be good parents without getting your lives together first.  

[Luckejem]

I understand what you are going through but from my own experience, my advice would be to find a way in where you can find yourself, in a life without your husband. Also, your daughter has nothing to do with his discretions, and she is a part of you. It appears however, that your husband is taking advantage of you knowing you may feel alone in this world, and now is time that you prove him wrong. Trust me, when I tell you you can be happy on your own and you don't need a man in your life who has lied to you or who cannot be trusted. I was in a relationship for 18 years with a man who cheated, lied, stiole from and mentally and physically abused him. One night, I packed the kids and left in the middle of the night. Saved money and stood in shelters until i got my own place, started going to the gym and got a new and better job.. and little by little started a new life. Never went back and stood my ground, five years later, I am married to this great guy who wants the same things as I do. But one thing I do know for sure, I had to take the first step, by myself and on my own... it was scary but I did it, and now one could take that away from me. Good luck...      

[katarina777]

Great comment, and so fitting at this time and place. You have my respect! kat

[MNBVC13]

Thank you
I think, you are right, I just have to face the truth and act, and stop complainig about my problems. What's done is done, I have to think of my daugther and myself now. Its our life and it's my responsibility to make it better.
I have a lot of respect for you.

[AnnaE]

Yes. You should make sure that your daughter has visits her father, if you decide to leave. However, I am really confused about his taking care of her and supervising your every move. How does he treat his other baby, by his first wife? Does any of his behavior have to do with your being from another country? Maybe he needs education on the fact that you are OK.

I think that family therapy, no matter what is in oder here, to try to establish order in upir lives--sensible order, that takes regard for everyone. Make sure the counselor is right for you. If you disagree with a counselor, speak up. Your lives and happiness are the concern.

I do not reccommend that your daughter is sent away. She would be in unfamiliar circumstances, during a stressful time. Children as young as your daughter can develop depression under these circumstances, if they do not feel supported and cared for. I am sure that you care for her..

Your daughter

[SeriousSam]

Custody if you have tried to commit suicide, your husband seems to be the primary care provider from what you said...  I'd try for something other than primary custody.

So get a job, go to counseling together and they will probably reccomend individual counseling for you.

good luck.

[MNBVC13]

my husband and his Ex never been married. I met him after they had broken up for a year or so. Well he doesn't visit his other child, I don't think he cares much for her and I believe, he seen her maybe 3 times since she was born, and only in court, when His Ex would bring her there.

was under impression that she is glad that my marriage isn't going well. She knew that he is married and didn't care. She said once, that she got what she always wanted from him: a support and a child. " And thats how its done in America" she said. I don't like to talk about it much.
God see everything, he will judge

[MNBVC13]

I think, I've got the picture, It doesn't meter what I do, I will pay fool price for my and theirs mistakes.

[katarina777]

No, MNBVC13, try not to think and feel like that. About the suicide, it's a typical 'man thing' to say. It's a typical 'man thing' to use against you. Don't let him use that against you. You must believe that you are and can and will be able to be a competent mother even if you were depressed to a point that you tried to kill yourself. Depression is not a permanent diagnosis. If anyone should have felt worthless and depressed, it should be your husband. but you did so instead.

He was wrong, and you have nothing to apologize for. Everyone makes mistakes.

[KATE535]

Pull the rug from under his feet !!!! - ditch him for good, and fight for your daughter. He doesn't deserve a descent woman. Make him regret what he's done to you, I think he's vile for it. The Pig. Let him flit between realtionships making babies here, there, and everywhere, and let him lead a life compelled to paying child support for all the children he's fathered.

When your strong to do this - ie. leave him and forget him ie. when you're better - you'll stand more chance in the Courts for your daughter - as you say he doesn't care much for the other child he's made. The courts will see you can provide for her in more ways than he does. Just make sure you can give her all she needs - that you want to do that for her.

[SeriousSam]

Doesn't anyone think mental health plays a part in who should take care of a child?  It seems like half the time I read about a suicidal parent killing themselves they think the child would be happier dead too.

Also is their anychance that the father has that fear in the back of his head too?  Or that he is worried about his wife trying to kill herself too.

I agree that the situation is whacked but ... What did the hospital say when you were released after your suicide attempt? were you comitted at all?

Quite honestly I think the best bet would be if you all went to family counseling.

BTW.  I wasn't trying to be harsh about the custody but if I can think of at least three supreme court decisions that might apply I am sure an atty might do better.  Honestly I think some of these people who are urging out and out combat have never been involved in court.  Sometimes trying to work for a compromise with everybody is better in the long run.

[SeriousSam]

The first thing I would do if I were him and you just took off with your daughter is get an emergency op and supervised visitation, subpoena police records & mental health records from your attempt and try to state that you are in danger of leaving the country w/ our daughter have her passport revoked etc and find an attorney who specializes in the treaty (copenhagen?) that bars transporting a minor child out of it country of primary cizenship.

But that would just be a start.  Let alone if he could use the post that you made to this forum.

Sometimes the way of the warrior should be subsumed to the way of the merchant.  

[mami1323]

I'm sorry, I agree that it's unfair for her to just take her daughter and run.  She loves her father and her father has shown nothing but love to his daughter and provided her with stability.  Yes, he did a terrible thing, yes, he's a rotten husband but it sounds to me that he is a wonderful father.  To just rip his daughter away from him will not only hurt him but really hurt their daughter.  That is what counts more then anything else.  I understand the hurt of betrayal, I was betrayed by my son's father.  But the one thing I vowed never to do was to keep his son from him.  Our child was the innocent victim in all of that relationship bs.  When I kicked him out, I told him that he could take his son for the night.  I didn't want him to feel as though I was using our son as a pawn to hurt him.  I told him no matter what, he could see our son whenever he wanted.  Your husband is not harming your child, you may feel that he is controlling over you and he very well might be but he's still good to your daughter.  Like I said, joint custody may work the best here but I think everyone is seeing her hurt and not thinking of that innocent child who loves both her parents more then anything.

[KATE535]

I believe in father's having good access to their children too. Don't get me wrong - I wanted to point out that he wont necessarily get full custody if that is what he tries to do, and that she has a good chance if she's up against him at court - that's what I was trying to illustrate.
I too believe a father should be able to see their child. In this case he should, and she should, both have good access to the little girl no matter what the outcome of all this at court.
My advice was for her to be stong and forget about him in the context of their marriage, not in the context of them as parents to the little girl.
Sorry if it came across wrong...
I want to illustrate she needs to be strong and stop believing her husband is so much better than her as a parent. She seems to be depressed and when depressed you don't feel good about yourself in any way. I bet her self-worth is at RockBottom. I want her to realise she must pick herself up because he is the one in the wrong in all this.
Depression is numbing, and to all around, she feelings little positive emotion, and that's because that's what depression does to you.
I don't want her to give up her daughter because she feels she's a bad mother.
I don't like to talk about it but I had post natal depression when my second child was 9 months old, and I went through six months of hell. I thought I was a bad mother and thought I had no feelings for anyone - I felt like I was the only one. I hated myself. I was even hospitalised as I was in such a state - all my family around me kept telling me I just needed more help because I was doing so much. However, I got better, with help and a supportive family, and realise NOW that I was and still am a very good loving mother. It just that illness makes it hard to be positive about the future.

It will help her to leave him but stick it through with her daughter - don't give her up.

[mami1323]

I'm sorry you had to go through that.  I haven't been through that but I can totally understand those feelings of not being a good enough parent.  Because depression can make you believe all of those negative things about yourself.  So can being cheated on.  It rips at the core of your soul, makes you feel like there was something wrong with you when in fact it isn't you that is the problem.  Yes, she should think about leaving, but no, she shouldn't give up on being a mother.  Because when she does get better, she will regret giving up her daughter so easily.  No one should have to live with that regret.

[KATE535]

I feel worried about her because when I was terribly ill, which I was, I could not cope with anything without my family, they helped me restore my relationship with my children through help support kindness and care. But she has no other family in the US. I think she may have a hard hill to climb.
I guess I'm angry to hear a man has done this to a mother and it's because I went through the worst time of my life with that illness. That's why I come across harshly when I talk about this man. He is a happy father - hardly sounds like he feels guilty, nor like a supportive husband at all. He wont accept counselling or help her. That's why I can't stand the sound of this man.
I admit I'm on her side in all this. Depression is like being in a hole that you can't climb out of. I could relate not that long ago... Who can she turn to if she's on her own in the US though?

[MNBVC13]

I know, what you saying is true, I have no chance in the court room. That's one of the most important reasons I steel with him. I am very angree at myself, that I was so weak and stupit enough to make such a horrible thing. But it was 3 years ago. I wish I could turn time back.
I have only two ways, 1. stay, and spend years in therapy, because it looks like he never will change, 2 If I leave, my daugther will stay with her father, and I'll get supervised visitation, and child support.
Isn't it seek? I am not a bed parent. I have never done anything to harm my child. Some times I do feel like if I didn't have a child it would be easy to leave, nothing would hold me back. But it doesn't mean that I whish some harm to her.
And why no one else has to suffer as much as I do? Why is his Ex sleeping with mirried man walked away with no consequences, but a nice check every month. And I lost my marriage and now about to lose my child?  

[MNBVC13]

This is an answere to the question " who is better man or woman?" no one we all the same, we all equaly capable of making others suffer. And when we get together, we can distroy other's lifes just for 20 min. of plessure.

[SeriousSam]

While I don't have too much respect for adultery by either sex I have too say letting a bad 20 minute decision on the part of your partner control the rest of your life doesn't seem to be too responsible either does it?

So far as staying in a hellish abusive relationship for your kids? Welcome to the normal world of fathers.  Look @ each of the posters on this page who is a stay at home mom and each one relies on a type of unstated terrorism for their income. "Cheese me off and me and the kid both go"  and what is a real sadness is their post show their attitudes.

I really think if you are leaving this marriage that you work out a parenting plan get an attorney and try to get as close to a 50/50 agreement as you can.  Hopefully you live in a state that also has shared-joint custody and push for that and make it look like you are going for that because of your maturity and not because you are in a position of weakness.  50/50 when possible is better for the kids anyway as the whole maternal instinct thing is a bs myth that science has never been able to prove anyway.

I really do wish you luck whichever road you choose.

[SeriousSam]

Honestly-did you try to save your marriage?  And if you choose to share your child instead of battle you  probably won't loose their either.  In most states an agreement by both partners trumps that of the court except where child welfare is at stake.  Do you and you husband really have such an unreasoning hate of each other where you cannot work together for your childs sake?

[MNBVC13]

I gave my marriage 3 years, honestly I forgave him for what he did, but have no love, no trust, or respect for this man anymore. He turned my life in to something that I would never volunteer in to. And sad enough I let him do it.
I'm tired of complaining...
I have an appointment with psychologist next week. We'll see how that goes.

[KATE535]

In case you are unaware - I work full time and support my kids financially 100%. I'm not with their father but do not terrorise him for any income. He doesn't contribute to them at all. So, please, keep me out of your stereotypical opinion of the women you have on this page.

[SeriousSam]

Ooookay.  In which way did I address you?

and no, oddly enough I seem to with my omniscience missed any information about you LOL

How odd rotflmao

[KATE535]

No need for arrogance or cockey-ness, just wanted to inform you I am not a mother who financially terrorises the father of my children - it was YOUR suggestion that 'we're' on here...
Your opinion of a mother who struggles to get financial support or maintanence for a child, and so seeks it through the means of Child Support, is a ''terrorist'' in your opinion?? Some one was bound to get offended by your comment...!

[margypops]

Dont give up your daughter , to help your self you could share her with your Husband ,if you give her up you will spend your life regretting it,you keep custody but make sure he  has plenty of time with  her and you get some time for yourself,  no mother needs to do this, get some help, it seems to me you are feeling very low so the first thing is will be to feel better so you can make those decisions with a lucid mind , this is not something to be taken lightly. When you are feeling depressed and desperate go out with your daughter and do things stay busy, have you friends you can confide in and simply talking may help.listen to your heart a Mom knows she doesnt want to leave her child.

[Sunes]

Remember that your doughter will feel and see what you are doing to her....they have  a great ability to sense trouble coming their way especially from loved ones ....it's better to love her with all your heart and give her what she wants and needs instead running away from her. Your husband sounds from your description a little controlling but also seems a good father...maybe not a husband but a good father.All your doughter needs right now is  loving two parrents and happiness in the house.
They know if something is not right...so please revise your decisions of leaving and stay for your doughter.Some people might say it's better to leave so your child does not see the fights...but you can make her life a breeze not to fight.
Now is really her live you should be concerned about not yours. I sincerely feel for you...but more for your doughter,She is only 3 for craying out loud and don't destroy her future. Just be there for her 100%...your husband is right.... leaving her with strangers in DC to raise her is not very wise...you can do school through internet these days.. As somebody said you both conceived her so now is your and your husband responsibility to give her THE WORLD!!! Divorcing will destroy your doughter and yes she will resent you fot this. Seems like now she loves her Dad more than you?????please clarify that? This forum is a great place to VENT so do anytime you need to if you have nobody to where you live. We are all here for different reasons...I would rather deal with your situation than cancer!!! Count your blessings.You were blessed with a miracle baby so please realise this soon.!!!!

[MNBVC13]

Am I the only one who thinks, that is wrong for a man to stop working to stay home so he can help out with a child?????? he doesn't work for 2 years now, he is at home every single day, a good father works to support his family. WE had to sell our house, because he has to pay child support, and he doesn't work. There is not much money left , I feel that I'll have no choice but support him.

I know.. man also can be a good parent and do the job as good as woman bla bla bla,  and I am sorry but if you are a good father it doesn't give you a right to push mother out of the child's life.  And make her feel like she is not needed.  As long as women are underpaid in this society, and don't have the same rights as men, they should be at list protected from men taking over our jobs as mothers!!!

[katarina777]

Look, MNB... your husband sounds really weird to me, and like one who has lots of problems himself....and is a problem to others as well, in this case at least for and with you.

We can give you all the advice we want, and try to help, but we really do not know your situation like you do, and you know it to be.

If you are thinking of involving legal action, you have to also be careful about any shrink you are seeing. it's like, the moment you step in his/her office, you lose all your rights. (It's a sad truth)

Your husband sounds like a nut case to me. You are depressed and have been to the point of feeling suicidal. The way I see your husband is of the type who makes other people crazy.

For whatever it's worth, kat

Only you can decide what you need to do, and are able to do, and want to do.

As I said before, sacrificing yourself  is doing no favor to your daughter. I really understand why you are allergic to your husband and cannot stand him. He has hurt you so much that your feelings have just changed and I doubt you will ever love him as you once did before.

[SeriousSam]

I hink both of you should take turns working quite honestly.

But that being said I am curious if you can list the jobs women get paid less on?  As I understood it those are mean not median averages.

[SeriousSam]

Are you a traditional stay at home mom? otherwise I still fail to see the link in my comment to you.

Sorry :*)

[KATE535]

I was only trying to clarify my situation to you, but think it's unfair you use the term terrorise when it is only right father's pay towards the children the create, since it's very expensive looking after children regardless.
I was a stay at home mum around 18 months ago. However I never ever had the intention to terrorise the father of my children for their upkeep. Not all stay at home umu's are mean like that.
Your opinion of stay at home mum's is very negative to me, seeing as I have been one myself and do not/ did not fit your stereotype. Sorry but I didn't :-(

[KATE535]

You know I meant mum's don't you (not umu's) !!!! lol

[SeriousSam]

Let me clarify to you.  that is the percieved concious or subconcious view of the larger male community.

Being a stay at home mum is largely a financial luxury and often a vanity given the level of actual ability many male or female parents have.  Nor if outside activities for the mother at least include the structure of a part time job or other activity is it necessarily good for the stay at home parents mental health and well being,

Consider married women have a much higher rate of mental illness than single women or married men while with men the converse is true,

[kathy434]

What your husband did to you is unfathomably cruel, self centered, irresponsible, inmature, and reprehensible.  He should NEVER have married you when he didn't have his old relationship thoroughly over with.  And after he married YOU, he owed his loyalty, love, honor, attention to YOU, UNDIVIDED.  I hear your anguish, depression, sorrow, abandonment.  He should be on his belly kissing your toes and proving to you that he truly loves you and is sorry he hurt you like this.  Instead he is demonstrating that he is not a worthy man to be married to.  He also demonstrates he is not a worthy man to be called a Daddy.  He really blew this one big time and I don't blame you one bit for feeling the way you do.  I honor your feelings toward your husband and if you choose to leave him, I honor that as well.  You are not in a trap, however this may look to you.  You can sue him for Alimony, and Child Support, and all the debts incurred in getting you mental health counseling.  Get a job that will help you to save up money to make a move, if this becomes your choice.  Then get your own place.
     As for your daughter.  She is not guilty of your husband's behavior.  She did not cause it and she doesn't deserve to have to pay that price, just because she is his baby.  She is every bit your daughter too, and she needs her Mama more than you can imagine.  She knows when you don't love her.  She can see it in you eyes, hear it in you voice, detect it in your behavior, and sense it in her soul.  You have to hate him, but love her.  She had nothing to do with this and your rejecting her will destroy you both.  Keep her with you and work at loving her for who she is and not anything to do with her father.
     You are wise to get counseling.  You need this support system on your side.  If a doctor recommends medication to help lift your mood, go for it.  When you feel better emotionally, you will be able to tackle your situation with a much clearer head.  It will sting for quite some time, but this too shall pass.
     Attempt something a woman I know did to help her get out of her bad marriage situation.  She wrote all her family and friends (without devulging what was happening), only that she desperately needed help financially to get out.  A lot of caring people opened their wallets and got her some money to work with, not expecting to be repaid, but that would be your choice.  She had a job and a new baby to support and she was then in her own apartment.  From there she was able to get on with her life with a beautiful little son, who looks just like his Dad.  She gives him the number one love and treatment he deserves, and they are enjoying a good life now.
     Maybe your family can send you and your daughter home to Canada so you can be close to family that loves you and her.  If your husband loses contact with your daughter, well, he has got to eat this one because he brought it upon you and her.  You and she deserve a good life together without him, mingling with people who love, respect, honor you and treat you both with dignity.  She can grow up with a happy mom, and feel proud of herself and loved.  She needn't feel second fiddle because of this anger you have.  You both deserve to feel in the number one position, no less.
     Please stay in contact with this forum.  By the way.  In the USA women are paid .75cts. for every 1.00 a male is paid for doing the very same job.  Yet more households are headed by women.  Our system has got to change the balance of this problem.  Men still are in denial about this issue.  They just refuse to achknowlege even the statistics published.  Yet they are whining because they have to pay to support their children.  Why?  Because they make babies!
Many male attitudes are still like owners and slaves.  They still have the mentality that they run their castle and the wife and kids must make due with what he lets them have.  That is not good enough in today's world.  Women are not owned.  Wives are EQUAL PARTNERS in the marriage.  (If you had done this to your husband and he had written in instead of you, I would have been telling him the very same advice I am telling you.  I am not a man hater, or anti family, or anything else.  What is fair for the Goose is also fair for the Gander, and vice versa).

[kathy434]

To begin with you need to reread the wage statistics.   Next you need to realize that even stay at home mothers are working more than their husband's 9-5 jobs.  And if a woman who were to charge the hourly rate to drive her kids to/from school, school sports practices and events & band practices and games, plus charge for being a housekeeper, a laundress, a babysitter, a party planner, a chef in the kitchen several times a day, not to mention for meals when the boss visits, or the in-laws visit.  Then she needs to charge her time for taking the car for repairs, or to the car wash and for cleaning out the interiors.  She  should charge for the lawn, and outdoor maintainence landscapers make a bundle on.  She should charge for the time it takes her to take the children to their doctors, dentists, vaccinations, emergencies.  She should get a nice income for handling the family hair care, all the time she spends planning meals, grocery shopping, buying clothes for the family for school, work, play, church.  She should make a nice sum of money for being her husband's sexual pleasure any time he wants, and his woman he identifies with at meetings and conventions.  She is a dishwasher too.   Plus she is the family psychologist, and her husband's personal consultant.  And then she takes care of your elderly parents, and her elderly parents.   I can think of more things a stay at home women could charge for her 24-7-365 day 18+ years work that the man of the house does not get charged for.  It would far outweigh his income and he couldn't afford people to do all this work.  Also for the part-time worker woman, who still comes home and does all of the above while her husband relaxes in front of the TV. the Computer, takes his nap after work, and groans when he is asked to take out the garbage, or put his dirty laundry into the hamper instead of his wake of trail of dumping and dropping his stuff as he goes about his world at home oblivious to the fact that his wife is probably very sick and tired of his not atleast picking up after himself.
I am not a man hater or anything as such.  But you, and a lot of guys have got your gall to assume a stay at home mother is living in luxury, doing nothing, eating bonbons, just holding out her hand for your paycheck and living life like a parasite.  Get real and now.  You don't know how much work a woman does to maintain a home, husband, family, food, income, health, education, and all, when you make statements like you posted in your remarks.  
And for a woman who is head of a household, who makes less in wages than a male doing the very same job, who also runs the whole show and may not get their children's child support money because her ex has a new woman to spend money on, a new car, a new life, well he is only hurting his children and they will remember him for it.  
     I have been both a stay at home mother, and a working wife and mother.  I know you couldn't afford me.  I make more money than you do on your best job.  

[kathy434]

According to your discription of your husbands behavior, I just noted, you are married to an abuser.  He will not change and he will cause you to feel totally crazy as long as you remain with him.  He is a control freak and he will distroy you.  Get out of that relationship before you totally succumb to his insane behavior.  You cannot leave your daughter with him either.  You will have to fight to save her life from him as he will do the very same thing to her once he took control of her.  He would then make it impossible for you to see her too.  He would raise her to believe that she must obey the wishes of any man she meets.
I worked 10 years for a women's help center.  I have seen this abuse only escalate into worse situations.  If he knew you were writing in this forum he would do everything to take away your ability to savor this outlet of communication.  Don't let him be aware of this forum.  Also definitely get counseling for you.  He is a lost cause.  Help yourself grow strong and move on in you and your daughter's lives.  You can and will have a much better life when you get away from him.

[kathy434]

i ALSO SUGGEST YOU ALSO GO TO A WOMEN'S HELP CENTER AND DISCUSS WHAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING.  iF YOU NEED SOMEPLACE TO GO FOR SAFETY, THEY HAVE SAFE HOUSES FOR YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER TO STAY TEMPORARILY.
Have your own set of car keys hidden somewhere outside the house.  Pack a bag of clothes for you and your daughter for a week or longer departure.  Get a credit card in your name only. Open a bank account in another bank, even in another town, in your name only.  Remove as much money as you can to take care of you and the baby for awhile until you can get work and on you own feet.  Put it into your own bank account.  Don't let the bank do it for you.  This must remain private.  Include in your bundle of clothes, your passport, your and you daughter's social security cards, and birth certificates of you both.  Also start making a list of names and addresses and phone numbers of friends, relatives, the police, 911.  Ask at the women's help center where you can get hold of a cell phone and set up an account in your name only and not where your husband has his account.  Learn your phone number by heart, and have it not written down anywhere.  You can inform your family in Canada when you choose to leave, but not where you are going.  You will be the only one who will do any calling.  They will not have your phone number.  Put your bundle someplace like the bus station depot locker and hide that key where only you will know where to find it, or someplace of your choice.
If your name is also on the car title, registration and insurance, you have every right to take the car in the middle of the night to carry out your plan.  I would suggest you call the police to inform them that you have taken the car and it is not stolen.  You can tell them you are in the process of leaving an abusive marriage.  Do not tell them where you are going.  Have a plan as to where you are going...far away. You can leave the car somewhere, keep the keys, and have a Taxi or bus or plane pick you up and take you to various locations so he cannot follow you.  Before you decide to return to Canada, check with a lawyer about if you can legally take your daughter to Canada without her father's knowledge.  lYou may also need to have a Protection From Abuse order issued to husband that stipulates he is not to contact you or come near you or your daughter.  It will be temporary, unless you file again and make it permanent.  Go to the Women's Help Center for any additional questions you have and for more advice.  DO NOT TELL YOUR HUSBAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING.  And don't put it on this forum.  Good luck and God Bless.

[SeriousSam]

Who said anything about bon bons etc.  Please cogitate men and women make the same pay, for the same jobs ( jobs like food service have less men and jobs like meat processing have more so their are median wage differences) but that still being considered most families work two jobs not because they want to, but rather because they have to.  So yes that is a luxury to not have to enter the workforce when most of world has to.  For the love of god check your facts.

And yet even without one person being a stay at home mom they get those things you mention, except for child care done.  I know a little bit about that subject beause I used to take care of my son from home and work "at home" .

The different wages for same jobs is a myth check your statistics.

As to being able to afford you?  Wouldn't want you! I suspect the product is damaged, overrated, and not near as reliable as you think as some of the advise you have given borders on illegal to say the least. Check out the Stockholm treaties and removing a child from a country.  Canada and most of the western world are signatories.

[SeriousSam]

Some clarification.

The Myth of the Wage Gap
Civil Rights Journal by Diana Furchtgott-Roth


"The 74 percent figure is derived by comparing the average median wage of all full-time working men and women. To obtain figures for individual states, average wages of men and women within that state are compared. So older workers are compared to younger, social workers to police officers, and, since full-time means any number of hours above 35 a week (and sometimes fewer), those working 60-hour weeks are compared with those working 35-hour weeks. These estimates fail to consider key factors in determining wages, including education, age, experience, and, perhaps most importantly, consecutive years in the workforce. That is why in States such as Louisiana, where it is less common for women to work, and where they have less education and work experience, the wage gap is wider. In areas where it is more usual for women to work, such as the District of Columbia, the gap is smaller. But this average wage gap, as it is known, says nothing about whether individuals with the same qualifications who are in the same jobs are discriminated against.

When discrimination occurs, and, as readers know all too well, it does occur, our nation has laws to deal with it. We need to focus on individuals rather than averages, and apply the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Pay Act to eradicate cases of discrimination as they occur.

How much less do equally-qualified women make? Surprisingly, given all the misused statistics to the contrary, they make about the same. Economists have long known that the adjusted wage gap between men and women--the difference in wages adjusted for occupation, age, experience, education, and time in the workforce--is far smaller than the average wage gap. Even just adjusting for age removes a lot of the gap: in 1998, according to data published in Employment and Earnings by the Department of Labor, women aged 16 to 24 made 91 percent of what men made.

The wage gap shrinks dramatically when multiple factors are considered. Women with similar levels of education and experience earn as much as their male counterparts. Using data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, economics professor June O'Neill found that, among people ages twenty-seven to thirty-three who have never had a child, women's earnings are close to 98 percent of men's. Professor O'Neill notes that "when earnings comparisons are restricted to men and women more similar in their experience and life situations, the measured earnings differentials are typically quite small."

What about the remaining gap, often referred to as the unexplained statistical residual? Economists Solomon Polachek and Claudia Goldin suggest that different expectations of future employment, or human capital investment, may explain the residual. In other words, since 80 percent of women have children, they may plan their careers accordingly, often seeking employment in fields where job flexibility is high and where job skills will deteriorate at a slower rate. This allows them to move in and out of the workforce with greater ease, or to shift from full-time to part-time work, if they so choose. But job flexibility frequently comes at the cost of lower wages in these fields."

[SeriousSam]

You have given why legal reform is desperately needed in tour blaring examples of trying to show someone how to exploit a system not for the childs benefit but rather for their own even in the face of a potentially dangerous mental illness.

You have... for a moment, left me dumbfounded.

[SeriousSam]

I was not talking about economice terrorism but rather the random, what is essentially kidnapping by a parent of a child which again you in later posts reccomended.  You said though you went through the whole mental illness thing though, got treatment and got the kids?  

So their is no hope for the kids but you got what you wanted?  And no anger issues?  BTW are all the kathy, Kates and katarinas on here the same person?  A while back their was kind of a mad poster who was doing that on medheld and I just realized that may not be the case in one of the situations here where an older account was used as opposed to all of the NEW accounts that were posting.

Sometimes I wish medhelp would switch to one ID per IP though I know that is not realistic.

[heatherlynn22]

if you don't love your child why would you take her away from her loving father? it ***** that he cheated. you have every right to be mad...but why punish the child for the crimes of the father? whenever i get mad at my husband i NEVER look at my children and think "oh your father did this so i hate you". that is YOUR child. the baby you carried in your womb for 8-9 months. the child you nurtured and grew.

as far as he goes...you don't need a man to stay alive. if he won't step up to the plate and go to counseling tell him your leaving. if that doesn't change his mind then do it. get a job, an apartment and a car and do it. there are plenty of government agencies out there who can and will help women who are in need of that help. so you're not trapped. you have options.

if you want to save your marriage make the appointments and if he does follow you everywhere he'll follow you to that appointment. if he gets mad and leaves at least you're getting help.

[kathy434]

I did check my statistics.  If a woman is single and with no children, and educated in her career of choice, she stands to earn about 98% of that which her male counterpart recieves.
If a woman is, or is not married, and with children, she is not considered as valuable as a single woman, who would be able to work longer and steadier hours for the business.  Therefore, despite her qualifications, she would be less likely hired for the job over a man, and a single female.  The reason for this is that a mother is regarded as the nurturer of her family and she needs more flexible hours and not be able to work extra long hours as that of a man.
Also, a woman with children is paid less than a woman without children.  But a man with children is actually paid more than a man without children.
Add to the facts that women choose careers that pay less than the careers that men choose which usually pay far more.  Men are in management positions far more than women, and they are paid better than the women because our culture prefers to deal with men instead of women and minorities.  A trust issue.  Only because it is a white male they feel is more capable, safe.
A capable woman in business is less likely to be given assignments that could boost her value in the business.  A man gets that credit much easier, because it is assumed he is more capable than she.  Thus he is rewarded with better pay.  She is not.
I would not be so sensitive about this if our country paid all citizens a "living wage" instead of a minimum wage.  A living wage for a given region would pay enough for a full time worker to work one job, and be paid enough that would put a roof over his head, pay utilities, groceries, clothing for family, & health care.  Not only are many people faced with minimum wage laws but companies will not even cover healthcare benefits.  People, many women who are heads of households, work several jobs and still have trouble meeting basic needs.  And they are college grads in their career fields.  They are making contributions to society and getting little in return.
I frankly could not care less that you don't like me.  I am not damaged goods, thank you very much.  I didn't give illegal advice either.  If you will read my post again you will see that I suggested she contact a lawyer about taking her daughter home to Canada.  The lawyer can advise her from there.
If this husband cared anything about other's feelings, he wouldn't ignore his first child, nor would he be so callous about hurting his current wife.  If she wanted counseling with him that is her choice.  If she sees the writing on the wall already, she needs to get out now as he is already making her a prisoner in her own home,  cutting off her friendships, and causing her additional mental anguish.  That behavior is not love.  That is abuse.

[kali89]

I completely understand what your feeling. My husband persued me when i was 14 years old and he is six years older than i am. He convinvced me that he was the only person who could love me and would get abusive if i didnt have sex with him. I got pregnant when i was seventeen and married within the same year. I am not a citizen of the country i live in and because of the laws my parental rights are limited. he treathen me so much with taking away my son to make me stay in the relationship that after a while I started to hate my son along with his father. I felt as though i proably would have been able to escape earlier if he hadnt come along.he is a very hiperactive child and since my marriage my husband quit his job and depends solely on the income from my two jobs. I am overworked and very suicidal and he is constantly abusive  and negelectful of his responsibilities as a father. I am not even allowed to seek consuling. I know that its not my sons fault that my life is screwed up but i just wish he werent here to experience it. I am still praying for a way out and if it means leaving my son here then so be it.At this point I rather be dead than trapped anymore and i know i am not good to him anyway.

[specialmom]

Your story is quite moving.  I'm sorry life has worked out this way for you and I do hope that you find a way to escape.  Our children are a part of us and I'm sure your son is a part of you and part of your heart.  Your living situation is just too miserable to see it that way right now.  Yes, children are wonderful but they can make someone feel more 'trapped".  I hope it works out and I hope that you are able to take your son with you when you go. That would give him a chance of breaking the cycle.  My son is quite active as well and I find as many physical outlets that I can give him make things much better.  It helps calm him down.   Well, good luck and let us know how things progress.