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Is she a loser?
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Is she a loser?

Good day,

I'm 25 years old, been with my girlfriend for 3 years now, we've had a pretty intense relationship, I have to travel a lot because of my work and sometimes we can be 1 or 2 months far away from each other, however, we share the apartment almost since we started the relationship, which makes us look like a married couple.

What I'm struggling with right now, is with the way she is. I'm an engineer with master's degree and working for a successful company, I grew up in Venezuela but seeked a scolarship in sweden and ended up living here by my own. I wanna have a successful career and build a solid relationship before taking the step of marriage. My girlfriend on the other hand, is the same age as me (25) but has abandoned already 2 careers because she couldn't handle it (first economy and then languages), her only friends are her sisters and her mom, who she calls every time she has a problem of any kind (even to kill a cockroach, not kidding). Right now she works as a cashier in a supermaket and that doesnt seem to really bother her (she talks about how she is going to start studying again, but so far i'm losing my hopes), she lacks a lot of common culture and knowledge (can't name the continents, doesnt know how to use a printer, etc) even though she had a normal education. She forgets every kind of task she has to do, and even though I have advised her to make a list with the things, she is too lazy to write it down. She sits all day in front of the TV watching reality shows when she's home alone or painting her nails, changing the color of her hair, etc, etc. It's like if all her expectations of life were to receive the payment at the end of the month and then count the days to receive the next. I hate to admit it and I have tried to deny it to myself but I think she's what they call a loser.

I dont want to make her look like a bad person, she is the sweetest girl on the world, everybody likes how she is, she's very friendly and good with kids, she loves me a lot and I also love her very much, she is a good girlfriend and always wants to make me happy, which I value and try to give back to her, our sex has never been something outstanding but is not bad either, and we try to please each other with anything we can.

I just really cant cope with this anymore, she's expecting me to propose soon and I just dont know if it's the right thing to do, she has made it clear that she wants to marry and have children before the 26's and I'm not ready for that.

I love her very much and it would be very hard for her and for me to break up after 3 years of such intensity. I have never even been close to betray her. I already know what the advice would be (break up with her), I just want to know if there's somebody with the experience, or knows someone, who actually got married with a woman/man like the one i'm describing, and if it finaly was worth it. I'm still young and maybe I dont realize yet that later in life professional success is not so important. I dont know.

Thank you very much for your attention,

Fede.
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134578_tn?1404951303
Well, first off, she's not a loser.  She just is not ambitious, or not ambitious for the things that you are ambitious for.  I guess it is possible that she is just a bit immature, but that is not a deal breaker either.  This does make a person a "loser;" if she is content with her life, she is more of a winner than some driven people who are obsessed with their careers.  Being a clerk at a grocery store is not the worst choice in the world.

That said, you are ambitious and have high goals, and already after only three years, it is not satisfactory to you to be hooked up with someone who has such a passive approach to life.  It won't get better.  

My sister married the nicest guy (so nice, he is still in the family after their long-ago divorce).  She is always in the news, has had several high-profile jobs.  He just was not on that page.  When I asked her why she was leaving such a sweet guy, she said, "He just doesn't have any ambition."

In other words, it is not an illegitimate reason to refuse to marry someone.  Even if she did have career ambitions that matched yours, the fact that she is on a time track for marriage and kids that you don't want, should be enough to send up all sorts of red flags for success in the marriage.  One thing that I know from my own life is that when the man and the woman have deeply-held wishes regarding kids that are diametrically opposed, no matter how great the relationship, what will happen is that one person will not get what he or she wants, and it will continue to be an issue, never really going away.

My thought is that the three years you have had were doubtless great, but they are gone past now, and the future does not hold so much promise of ease and agreement.  You two have come up to the things that are often deal breakers.  Up to you, but I wouldn't have any more sex (lest she get pregnant) and I would tell her you do not intend to get married until you are established.
31 Comments Post a Comment
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hi...first of all..calling her a loser is absolutely not acceptable...quite wrong in fact after 3 yrs spent of your life with this young girl...BUT!....
Also...i think  you kinda answer your own question and your just searching for justification.....your not happy with this relationship..she doesnt seem to be "the one" for you...and that doesnt make you a bad person..if anything it shows your care because you obviously dont want to hurt her...if  you really..really..i mean truely really loved her undyingly..you actually wouldnt of posted your question...,only you can decide such a decision regarding the rest of your life....
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Well, first off, she's not a loser.  She just is not ambitious, or not ambitious for the things that you are ambitious for.  I guess it is possible that she is just a bit immature, but that is not a deal breaker either.  This does make a person a "loser;" if she is content with her life, she is more of a winner than some driven people who are obsessed with their careers.  Being a clerk at a grocery store is not the worst choice in the world.

That said, you are ambitious and have high goals, and already after only three years, it is not satisfactory to you to be hooked up with someone who has such a passive approach to life.  It won't get better.  

My sister married the nicest guy (so nice, he is still in the family after their long-ago divorce).  She is always in the news, has had several high-profile jobs.  He just was not on that page.  When I asked her why she was leaving such a sweet guy, she said, "He just doesn't have any ambition."

In other words, it is not an illegitimate reason to refuse to marry someone.  Even if she did have career ambitions that matched yours, the fact that she is on a time track for marriage and kids that you don't want, should be enough to send up all sorts of red flags for success in the marriage.  One thing that I know from my own life is that when the man and the woman have deeply-held wishes regarding kids that are diametrically opposed, no matter how great the relationship, what will happen is that one person will not get what he or she wants, and it will continue to be an issue, never really going away.

My thought is that the three years you have had were doubtless great, but they are gone past now, and the future does not hold so much promise of ease and agreement.  You two have come up to the things that are often deal breakers.  Up to you, but I wouldn't have any more sex (lest she get pregnant) and I would tell her you do not intend to get married until you are established.
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sorry, typo -- it was supposed to say "this does NOT make a person a loser, if she is content with her life, she is more of a winner than some driven people obsessed with their careers."  Bad one to have a typo on!!!  :)
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I might also add, per your title of your post -- even if you two do break up, I would try really hard not to judge people with more humble jobs as lesser than people with more striving or upwardly-mobile jobs.  This is not only true so you won't look like a snobbish a s s, but also because later in your career you will meet women who see more eye-to-eye on the necessity of throwing themselves into their careers and who want to be president of the company, etc., and if you have this loser/not loser judgement machine going in your head, you might give someone more preference than they deserve simply because you think they might be a winner in their career.  Creeps exist among the rich and the poor, and among the successful and unsuccessful, just the same as sweethearts.  Monetary success is not life success.  Don't give some future woman more credit than she deserves, even if you do decide your present girlfriend is simply not into the same driven trajectory that you are.
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Let me take a guess here.

She's prettier than girls you could expect to attract and keep, if you were to break up with her.

Yes?
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Avatar_n_tn
Thank you Annie for your reply, that's the kind of answer I was expecting, I will certainly re-read your answer again while struggling with my decisions. To RockRose, she is very pretty, very much than the average pretty girls, but your guess is not so accurate, as a Venezuelan living in Sweden I found it much more likely to attract girls that to me are my ''dream type'' (talking about the physical aspect) than in my years in Venezuela, So if I were driven only by physical appearence, I would certainly not be so worried since I'm surrounded by what my friends in venezuela call dream girls (blonde hair, light eyes, etc). I dont know if you understand what I mean. Now, I would like to know what conclusion could you draw from my anwer if it may help me.

Thank you very much (and hoping for more answers to come, of any kind)
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Avatar_f_tn
I'm more ambitious than my husband but that mean that we're not happy. I just strive for better things for both our futures.
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Well,  I'm out of answers,  Fede.   You don't respect her intelligence,  you think she is silly (I do too,  frankly if she can't even kill a cockroach on her own) she only has a small circle of friends,  which are her sisters and mother,  she has no motivation to succeed,  your sex life is average,  and you don't find her overly attractive.  

This is your description.

Why are you with her?   This is a question to you - because I really don't get it.  You don't seem to value any part of her.
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Avatar_f_tn
wow..some great advice there reading over posts...all of which suggest that your obviously not on the same page as your girlfriend..and all of which is obvious to see...
calling her a loser is quite obnoxious..and really makes you come across egotistical..which i really can see you being...vain..young..etc..
your young..ambitious..and that is admirable..good on you..but if your heart isnt there with this girl...let her go..but gentlemenly and respectfully and dont regard her as a loser
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I agree with Lisa,  and I want to try again to be clear.  I realize now I was COMPLETELY unclear.

I think when couples get together and stay together (as you and your girlfriend have done,  Fede) both come to the "table" with a composite score of their desirability.  Say,  that score is about 100.  You get certain points for attractiveness,  points for being fun and clever,  points for being wealthy or having potential wealth,  points for being socially graceful and sweet and enjoyable to be around,  etc.  All the points add up to a total "score".

I believe that couples who stay together for any length of time (6 months plus) have about the same composite score.  So you see gorgeous girls with unattractive but wealthy guys,  unattractive but very very dynamic and fascinating girls with very handsome but boring guys,  etc.  The total composite value each person brings to the table equals their partner's value.

So.  You give her few points,  except you find her sweet and kind of attractive,  but not really.  Would her friends give you about zero points except you're smart and can make more money?   Would her friends give you the same very low value you place on her?
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Avatar_n_tn
I know I probably sound like an idiot for talking like that of a person that I supposedly (and yes I do) love, but this is honestly what I feel lately. If I had to talk to one of my friends about this I wouldn't be so honest. I really appreciate the time that you have taken to answer a stranger. I also think we're not on the same direction in life, but hell, what a hard thing is to let go, specially when you deeply care for that person. If anybody cares about how this story ends/develops I can update you in a couple of months. I think it has been good for me to hear other points of view. Thank you
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Frankly, she lost my sympathy at the lengthy watching of reality television.  But you are the one who (sort-of) loves her, not me.

Thing is, Fede, you aren't doing her any favors hanging on merely for auld lang's syne.  Nobody should be in a relationship just because it used to be good (or because he used to need it).  Surely she senses the lukewarm nature of your regard, and it can be very erosive to someone's confidence to get little clues all the time that her significant other doesn't really think she is significant any more.

If I had to guess from your original post, I would think that you have placed a very high value on getting ahead in the world, to the extent of leaving your home and travelling to a very different culture and working and striving so you can reach your goals, more than a lot of people do and leaving behind a lot, in terms of emotional comfort and security.  And your girlfriend's familiar presence was probably of great comfort in the early days of this uncertain venture.  But by now you have attained some of what you are aiming for, and have more certainty of gaining the rest, and your confidence is returned, and you don't need comfort as much.  Possibly you overlooked some disconnects because you needed the comfort, but by now that need seems to be faded.

How this could be painted from here will depend on you and what you say to her.  You could walk away from this looking like a sweet but regretful guy, who has said to his girlfriend that he is simply so obsessed with and focused on getting ahead that he cannot give her the home life she wants, in fact he might not be able to give that to anyone ever, but certainly not now, and that she is too nice a person to string along, so he is letting her go to find a man who appreciates her more than he is capable.  If saying such a thing would simply choke you, you could say it in a way that blames her for all her failings and being a loser, thereby branding yourself forever in her mind as an arrogant heel who has tossed his loving girlfriend because she did not live up to his standards in terms of material success and taste in TV.  Guys in med school do this all the time to the faithful wife who put them through school, it's really crass.  I even knew one who timed his divorce so the one hundred thousand dollar signing bonus he was going to get, came after the divorce was final by one day.

My advice, if you are deciding on parting with your sweetheart, is to try for scenario A.  The truth is probably somewhere in between, but you don't want all your friends at home to get posts from her saying what a pig you have been.
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I personally like ambition and would not be with someone that didn't possess it.  It's important to me.  I wanted an equal when I married both in education, ambition and ability.  I got that.  Now, I'm a stay at home mom but that is different than being a person that never pursued career or really much of anything.  I don't look down on people that don't, I just recognize that for a life partner, I wouldn't want someone that didn't match what I look for in that area.  goodl uck
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Avatar_f_tn
I think AnnieBrooke said it best!!

GOOD advice from others as well!! I agree with EveryOne who posted here!!

but

AnnieBrooke had impressive incite!!
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134578_tn?1404951303
One other possibility that occurred to me last night, Fede.  If you brought her with your from Venezuela, she might just be downright isolated and displaced.  Without an exciting career and prospects, anyone could get depressed in a new country that is not one's native place.  So, even more reason not to brand her a "loser."  You are on an excitement and positive rewards trajectory, going up.  She is not.
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Avatar_m_tn
I'll add this...  If she has expectations of getting married and kids before 26 and you aren't ready for that?  That is a pretty big deal.  This is something that the two of you need to have a real big talk about.

While you're at it, you both deserve the opportunity to get everything out into the open, the things that are bothering you about her and her about you.  Communication is one of the major keys in a relationship, and it sounds as if some of it is missing.  I can understand you not wanting to hurt her or offend her about the things she does or does not do.  But, if you expect the relationship to go further, you owe it not only to her but to yourself as well, to let her know what your expectations are.

With that said, compromise is another essential in a relationship.  Negotiate.... Meet her somewhere in the middle.  For instance, her studies... Do you expect her to be a doctor or engineer or would you rather her have a good stable job that she enjoys?  If you expect her to be a doctor and she has absolutely no interest in that, you're setting yourself up for failure.  What if she stayed in sales, running a register, and made a little bit of money but enjoyed what she is doing?  Her happiness has to mean something to you.  

You're in a tight spot.  Communication and compromise are the keys here.  Realistic expectations fall somewhere in there as well.  Talk to her and be wide open and expect her to do the same.
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brice, I like what you are saying except that telling her exactly what he is thinking about her would be pretty insulting.   Either she has gotten depressed in the past three years and is feeling pretty hopeless about her chances (thus, the pressure about having kids -- she might feel like at least she could be a success there) or she was always the way she is now, but the point is he used to like her fine (possibly when he needed her more) and now almost everything she does bugs him.  (Again, granted, she might have slid into depression, especially if she is in a place foreign to her support system with no corresponding successes of her own to boost her esteem.)  I would never have a sit-down and put out a plate of negatives about my partner if I thought there was a chance my own upbeat prospects (or her corresponding lack of success) was the cause of the negatives seeming so darn negative to me.  It's not her fault that he is successful and has good opportunities.  That is why I was suggesting that if he do decide to end it with her, he do it with some ego-saving (for her) white lies about how he doesn't think he will be ready for quite a while to give anyone a home and kids.  That would be a lot easier for her to hear, and to accept, than the "you can't even write a list and you spend all day watching reality TV" litany.  In short, those things might be true, but the situation (living with Mr. Upwardly Mobile and having no success on her own) might be more at fault, than any particular failings in her.
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good luck to you fed..and i hope you found some positive advice from this thread as all opinions from all that posted are definitely valid...
wishing you luck an happiness
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Hey Fede..

You asking if there is anyone out there successfully married a woman/man the way you describing.. i am the ALIVE prove here YES... it does.. i am the one....!!!

Honestly the way you describing your GF i felt very much like you're talking about me beside my friends is my Hubby friends and i am fulltime housewife who happen to be so damn lucky woman who married a successful man that can accept me the way i am.. "A WOMAN WITHOUT AMBITION AT ALL"

Let me tell you a bit about my relationship story i am only 25 when i meet my Hubby 9years ago.. i was young funny happy girl with not much feeling of going to falling in love with a man like him and he was only 27 that time. But well that's how love begin right friends turn to lover.. after 3 months dating we then move in together and just like you are we more or less like married couple too.

My Hubby is also engineer that need to travel around so what did i do when he away...?? is the things that your gf did worst more i not working i just sleeping and playing games... But the one thing i know Fede is when the man love the woman he will love her the way she was and it's doesn't matter if she was ambitious girl or she was just the lazy damn pig in the world...!!! I do understand you might want her to have better life style or maybe just be like today world that woman can do what man can but if that what makes her happy then why so hard for you to be happy for her if you do love her...??

I not gonna lie to you that i too facing up and down in my relationship and some of them even close to breaking us up.. but i do believe true love is always the most powerful feelings in the world that no matter what happen if you never doubt that you have found your pair even tsunami won't break you up...!!

After nearly 5years rocking relationship we officially be Mr&Mrs Lee and i am still the same girl up till today, has been 4years since i say "I DO" and has been 9years this successful man being with this unambitious lady yet still very much in love :) not to mention we facing 5 times fail pregnancy for the past 4years 3 D&C.. 1 natural m/carry and 21weeks stillbirth lovely Baby Aidan..

So if you do really love her don't keep her waiting and spend your time here asking but asking her "WILL YOU MARRIED ME...??" you can never know what woman like me and her can offer till you willing to open the door and explore and enjoy the ride just like my Hubby did....!!! I don't know what my Hubby saw in me that make him so falling deeply madly in love but the only things i learn after all is.... "LOVE DOESN'T NEED REASON WHY...!!!!"

All the best Fede...
Rachel...
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So if you do really love her don't keep her waiting and spend your time here asking but asking her "WILL YOU MARRIED ME...??" you can never know what woman like me and her can offer till you willing to open the door and explore and enjoy the ride just like my Hubby did.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  The time to figure out what a partner can offer is BEFORE marriage, not after.  It's not like trying a new brand of yogurt...it's a lifetime committment.
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However, Rachel, that is a very charming story.  You sound like a fun, bubbly person, which is probably what your serious engineer husband likes about you.  
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I am recently just come back from visiting one of my friends in Australia, I know her from Bali lover page and we getting to know each other very well. After 2nd time meeting up with her in Bali I went to Australia and visit her..

At one moment I was scare bcos seriously I just know her less then a year and meet her only twice but I go anywhere.. yes she is not my lover just a friends but after the 10days visit I realize something very important things that I never think I will end up be different Rachel after I return.

The visit teach me that the period of time knowing someone is not warranty they will treat you well forever. Along the way things might change might not.. and this apply to every relationship I think...

I must be lucky enough to have married a very good man that can treat me the same like the 1st day he meet me but I consider myself a lucky damn lady that I know Barbara for less then a year but she welcome me more then like my own sister did.

So my dear fella friends what I am trying to say is he have been with her for 3 years.. are she worthy or not we all can never know till fede itself willing to explore and find out. Yeahh it might be a wrong choice but can we for sure walking away is the best choice...?? What if she is actually the right person...??? WHAT & IF is just common words but place them side side and it can give you wonder whole life...

I know for sure a good financial or an independent woman is always the secure come to many situation and I also understand that money is important cos everyone will rather cry in jaguar instead of bus but I learn after my trip money is not everything. If fede love her gf and he was a successful man can he picture how lucky he was to have his wife at home looking after the family while he is working to provided his family a better life instead of hiring a nanny and get his ambitious wife...?? I not sure and I am sorry if I might offends those working mom but I bet if being given a choice every Mommy will dying to staying home and look after they own kids by themselves unless they desire otherwise...

I not saying this bcos she is just fall to my type but I talking base on experience and yes is happen to me so I guess I answer his question that his asking if there is anyone out there similar situation like him. But will he end up like me and my Hubby seriously I don't know that's why I ask him open the door and explore but if he more choose to walk away I will be just wishing him good luck in find the miss right bcos I am very sure that what happen next nobody can tell right... I pray that my Hubby will be the same forever but if happen he change then I will just say God testing on me and I am sure HE won't do if HE knows I can't bear it.. cheerssss...

Lots love...
Rachel..
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1935407_tn?1339237714
Thank you... I just can say woman like me maybe have some special things too or else why does this successful charming good looking man madly deeply in love to me :) I am lucky indeed..
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Hi Rachel, I think the key is that your husband accepts you for who you are.  He wasn't interested in an ambitious person and therefore, your other qualities made him happy.  I think when someone is dating though and longing for it---  it is an important consideration for that person.  

I could not have been with an unambitious man.   Period.  He wouldn't have been attractive to me.  He wouldn't have grown on me.  So if I noticed a lack of ambition early on, it would be in my best interest to break it off.  Did it several times while in the dating process as a young woman.  

This isn't saying that lacking ambition is bad----  this is saying that it doesn't match up to what the poster sees as attractive in a long term partner.  I think it is cool he recognizes that as it shows great maturity.

And sadly, I don't feel love conquers all in any way shape or form.  Love is just an emotion like any other.  You need foundation to last.

But I AM glad you found someone to love you as you are.  We all should make sure that our partner accepts us before committing long term to them.  good luck
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Dear Specialmom..

Thank you very much for the input, I appreciate it and I guess fede will too :) is just happen this happen to me so I share with him for knowledge that yes is happen to someone else. And is worthy for me and Hubby. But will it end up the same to him, like I say I don't know.

I also know everyone has right to choose the best partner for long commitment is no kidding, bcos we going to be like 2in1 and I know exactly is really not easy. I glad fede has notice this I just think taking 3 years to notice is too long and not fair for the girl so if he not think of married her now then talk to her.. sharing.. let her know.. he loves her... she was the sweetest girl and Bla...Bla.. and he is smart if we call it that way since he can think so well what kind of partner he want to spend the rest of his life so don't he see the correct key after all... "COMMUNICATION"

Forgive me if I'm wrong specialmom you does mention you doing that during young time but I don't think you keep the man for few years then find another right, that's silly, and I know people doesn't change overnight but people does change... so if he honest about how he felt to her, she might willing to change who knows.. but thinking her as a loser is just to much for someone like him to say.
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Avatar_f_tn
hi..just reading over your post..that some good advice x
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Avatar_f_tn
reading over this post and peoples views opinions and lifestyles..its plain to see that no matter who you are or where your from regardless of health,wealth,rich,poor..etc.. we all have a story to tell...and to go back to fed..i hope you got the advice you were looking for and best of luck
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Yes, I agree that communication is really important.  I don't think calling her a loser is accurate or the right thing to do either.  She's maybe not what his ideal woman is (which would be different for everyone) but that doesn't necessarily make her a loser.

I will say that it is okay to decide someone isn't a good match for you when it comes to things like how they spend their working and non working time.  That is perfectly fine and really smart to do.  

Anyway, glad you and your hubby are so happy as that is what it is all about.  Finding someone that makes you happy.  luck to all
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Avatar_f_tn
i agree..totally..if you love someone(but theyre not for you)set them free..and yourself.. and also hotmama,you had true solid advice also from a different perspective. the only way i feel i can end here is by saying..just do what makes  you happy....
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Lisa thank you for token and specialmom glad that all of us can give out advised and opinions from each of us point of view. Agree what matter is happiness bcos this one money really cannot buy. All the best fede and good day everyone :')

Lots love
Rachel
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Avatar_f_tn
hear hear huni...,...
here is an example..dont know if  you follow football,but its not so much about the football..it was about a player..fabrice muamba..he died for 78 mins on the pitch..and lived through doctors fighting for his life..i only say this because i watched him walk on that same pitch for the first time tonight..and he has got more money than sense..but that didnt matter..it brought a tear to my eye because he survived...and he was humbled..and human....,
sorry for going on about that..just something i was thinking of
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