Is this incest?

[mother_in_usa]

I have been living with my fiance for a couple of years and recently his 19 year old daughter came to live with us for a few months.  Until recently, all of the daughters (2 biological and 3 step-daughters from 3 marriages/live-in relationships) "hated" him until I talked one into coming to live with us by assuring her that her father no longer has a raging, violent temper she described.  By the way, the daughter who just came to live with us had run away from her father at age 16 to move into with one of his 40 year male friends with whom she had a sexual relationship.  She is now almost 19 and recently started living with her father, me and my children.   But his other daughter still will not speak to him because he has a raging temper and physical abuse.  He and his daughter seem to touch more sexually than he touches me.  For example, they kiss on the lips (which could be normal in some families), he looks at her with lust and grabs her buttocks, he has shown her sexually explicit movies since she was 12 years old, in the ocean and in pools, she straddles his crotch rubbing her gentiles against his and they bounce around for 10+ minutes, she rubs her butt up against his crotch on the couch and then spoons with him (her buttocks to his penis area), he makes shockingly sexual jokes such as ("is your ***** clean enough to eat off?" after she commented that she bathed herself), he strokes her hair lovingly (which might be normal), they massage each other's shoulders/chest area, and so on.  When I've told him (multiple times) that such behavior made me VERY uncomfortable and I have never seen a man touch his daughter in such ways, he rages at me and tells me I have no right to tell him what he can and can not do with HIS daughter.  He said he doesn't tell me how to raise my children; I calmly respond that if I ever straddled my teenage sons and dry humped them, he has my permission to tell me it is inappropriate but such behavior is repulsive to me.  By the way, years ago he told me he is a "sex addict" and used to go to weekly sex addicts anonymous meetings because he could not stop masterbating every day to online porn--sometimes up to 5 hours a day.  We have not had sex in years and he rejects my affection saying he is "impotent" and screaming at me to get away from him yet I see him masterbating.  The only time I have seen him have an erection in response to me is when we first met 10 years ago and he described his fantasy that he'd like me to dress up like a little girl (12 year old "virgin"--which was the age of this daughter who now lives with us) because he wanted to painfully rape me to teach me a lesson while dressed as one of his daughters friends but I was not comfortable acting out sex with a minor.  That was the only time he got an erection with me and that was 10 years ago.  I had normal sex with my exs so this is the first time I have been a man who refuses to have sex with me; I don't pursue it.   I see him secretly watching online porn up to 5 hours a day but he lies about it so I ignore it or calmly tell him I felt neglected when he only seems to like to watch whatever he watches online.  He tells me he does it as a habit and it was a problem with his exs as well but he can not stop so I ignore it.  I am easy going.  I have never yelled at him but I have expressed my feelings that I believe he is crossing some boundaries with his daughter and we need to teach her healthy boundaries.  I told him I am sorry to hurt his feelings but I am worried about his daughter and worry that she needs to learn appropriate boundaries so she can have healthy relationships with boys HER OWN AGE since the only sex she has had is with a man the same age as her father (and hopefully she has not had sex with her own father--I don't have the nerve to ask him whether or not the behavior has stopped at the behaviors I describe above).  Do you think I am being overly worried about nothing.  Is this just their family "culture" that I need to get comfortable with?  I have never seen a man touch his daughter the way my current husband touches his daughter--NEVER.  By the way, he told one of his exs broke up with him by accusing him of lusting and/or (trying to) have a sexual relationship with HER daughter.  He did not have to tell me that so that made me trust him because he was open and honest about why that relationship broke up so I figured perhaps she was just paranoid (as he said she was).  When he said I was crazy to think he is doing anything wrong with his daughter, I asked him to tell me more about why his ex broke up and he ran off.   By the way, when I bring this up, I have encouraged him to have an affectionate, loving relationship with his daughters but to just be careful he is not crossing sexual boundaries.  I told him the "rule of thumb" was don't touch whereever the bathing covers and stop the sexual innuendoes/overt sexual comments but everything else is wonderful.   I REGULARLY encourage him to spend plenty of time with his daughter doing normal father-daughter (non-sexual) activities because I know they need to make up for lost time and she says she likes his new personality because he used to be cruel, raging and controlling until both of his daughters ran away plus I taught him how to communicate calmly without raging (except sometimes when he looses it).  They spend a lot of 1-on-1 time together which I encourage because they had each other before I came along and I think the non-sexual relationship they have is sweet.  By the way, I love her very much and I have tried to be a good role model for her and I have helped her get into college so she is currently away at college.  I care every much about her.  He says she and I look like twins and I do think she is a young version of myself in so many ways which makes me want to protect her.  Even though she is not my daughter, I have developed a mother-like bond and love for her and want her to have the best possible life which is why I am trying to ensure we are behaving in way that help her grow in a positive direction rather than feeling shame, guilt and disfunction.  But, if he will not stop this behavior, I don't know what I can do.  I feel helpless.  Their relationship seems to be consensual although she said she used to be uncomfortable by his sexual comments and such but now she is used to it and she says she loves being a "daddy's girl".  She has not lived with her biological mother since she was 6 years old and she insists that she "hates" her biological mother who has a history of drug addiction, multiple divorces, lost custody of all her children, etc.

What do YOU think?  Am I over-reacting?  Am I crazy about nothing?  Please...I would like a variety of perspectives so I can see what is considered the range of "normal"

[Claire_MHModerator]

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[Priscilla_5]

I really don't know how you can keep up with this:/ this guy is clearly sick from his mind and the girls are too because I wouldn't accept that from my dad. I am 18 about to be 19 and I would be awfully scared and uncomfortable if my dad would act this way.
You seem like a very nice and smart woman! As I can understand I seriously think this guy is not makin u happy in ANY way instead he is worrying you and stressing you out. if this guy doesn't change or seek medical help he is not worth your time at all.... Wish you the best:)

[Babygurly22]

Hi there,
I would say that you should truely consider leaving him and reporting him. First off, if he doesn't show you any attention or doesn't even show any interest in having sex with you (not that sex is everything), like what you described, how i see it is that its no longer worth the worry or stress and all that it is putting you through. As for his daughter i would strongly reccomend reporting him. To me thats beyond disgusting. I could never even imagine having someone to that to their daughter. Im getting married in a few months n if i have a daughter, if i ever caught him doing that, i would be beyond mad and even with how much i love him i would still report him. I promise....i dont know what anybody else thinks, but in my opinion that it disgusting and its putting too much stress on you and its not worth it at this point. I hope this helped an good luck

[sisitersthreerwe887]

Really! come on how old are you? The guy in a pedaphile and his poor daughter is taking her cues from you on how to deal with his advances. Sorry sweetie but I think you all need to seek therapy. He is a sex addict and doing this and you can't figure it out? For the love of Pete use your freaken' common sense woman. The girl is seeking the lost approval of her father and is seeking it via sexuality and likes being a 'daddy's girl". Come on people say it like it is.. The guy is a freaken nut and your seem to enjoy watching the show. Get the at girl out of there before she ends up knocked-up by her won father. Truth be told thsi poor girl is on the a veary dangerous road that could lead to self distruction.

[CreeB]

Ok well , for one your story jumps aroubd a bit , furst you said she was 19 then said she was 12 the age he wanted you to play tgen turned ariund saying shes n college. Also , why would you have married him if he wanted to pretend he was raping a 12 year old girl? Also a grown woman should not be even sitting on her fathers lap let alone bouncing up nd down nd doing it while in the pool or anything else. Honestly this didnt even need to b on here becus you know whats right and wrong. Would you think it was ok for your daughters father to act in that way to her? Its very inappropriate and suggests he has sone sort of sexual problem. And then he cant perform for you. The best thing to do is get out of that marriage because your husband has a serious problem.

[1spartan]

If all you've described is happening,  this guy is not only a pervert,  but a very dangerous one.  The best thing for you to do is get as far away from him as you can.  As far as his "changed personality..... most sociopaths change to fit the circumstance they are in.  You may try looking into pubic F.B.I. files.  The fellow you are with fits in with the classic "time bomb" waiting to go off.  There is a book written by Henry Jaffa (studied bundy extensively),  Bundy said he would make a monument to each victim for sacrificing their lives for his freedom.  That sounds alot like you have no right to tell me what I can do with my children.  Also consider your children,  do you want them to grow up around this perverted man?  

[specialmom]

Hi there.  Holy buckets.  Well, this is certainly over the top.  I'd say that his history alone should have been a major red flag for you.  You entered into a relationship with a man that has children that will not speak to him due to things he did to them.  I hear you that you say he does not have a violent temper anymore but it does appear that something is seriously wrong with his conduct and attitude.  

Hind sight is 20/20 but I pay careful attention to some one's past.  No they shouldn't be condemned forever for things they've done if they have made meaningful changes but it needs to be acknowledged that they are riskier partners than someone that does not have a past including physical abuse and emotional abuse of their children.   But, as I said that is neither here nor there as you are now fully in this relationship.

Yes, he sounds like he is sexual with her.  A sixteen year old girl that leaves home to be with the 40 something friend of her father was most likely sexually abused at some point before that.  I, of course, can't say for sure but that is not an uncommon pattern.  That then changes her psyche.  When you say it is mutual . . .well, if she had been abused then her thought patterns may be damaged in how she sees men and her relationship to them.  This is horribly sad.  

I don't know if it was wise to invite his daughter to stay with you.  Where is her mother?  What does her mother have to say about this?  What does her mother say this man did to his children?  Are drugs or alcohol involved with either him or the mother?  Mental health issues?  Something is quite wrong with this picture.

I'll be bunt.  I'd move yourself out of that house immediately and call this girl's mother as to why you are going.  Don't be mad at his daughter.  I think she is a product of great instability and abuse.  The man you are living with sounds like he has a serious problem and one that you can't stick around for.  And don't be surprised if his raging temper doesn't return over this subject.  

She is no longer a minor or I'd be requesting you call child protective services but this girl should not be living with him.  

I'm not going to say anything like 'get counseling' or anything like that.  This is way beyond that.  Your sexual history with him in and of itself was an issue.  Do NOT be a co conspirator in his sickness.  Move out.  

After you have moved on with your life, self reflection is important.  You may consider a therapist just for you as to why you chose this man, why you lived with him with the lack of intimacy you've shared, and basically why you stayed as long as you did.  Codependence is something to get a handle on so that it doesn't repeat in some way.  I commend you for doing the hard thing and taking an honest look at the man you are with.  good luck

[froggie2233]

i don't think your being crazy at all. I could never imagine my father or anyone the age of my father doing any of those things.  I definately don't think your over-reacting either because if i were you i would have reacted alot more than you did so if i were you i wouldn't worry about that. id do what you feel is right for yourself and his daughter.