Just need some support :(

[waringblender]

Hi, I've been dating a guy since the end of February or so. We started having sex around the end of March. Our "agreement" was that we were not exclusive and could see other people or sleep with other people. Around the same time we started sleeping together, the guy sprung the news on me that he was involved with a married woman (!!), and this relationship of his was "on the wane" only because SHE was pushing HIM away. However, he was still seeing her every couple of weeks for sex and said he had feelings for her.

I was of course upset at this news but decided to keep seeing him and we saw each other a couple of times a week, including (safe) sex.

Soon after that I realized I had no interest in seeing other people so I was unhappy with our "free agent" situation. Meanwhile, the entire time we were dating, this guy kept busy during his evenings by attending informal social groups around town - These groups attended  movies together, restaurants, he joined a reading group, went out to bars and socialized, etc., etc. Not once was I ever invited to one of these shindigs with him, and several times I received text messages from him while he was AT these social events, saying he just "wanted to say hi" and was about to start dancing in some bar or whatever.  

I finally threw in the towel with the guy last Monday evening after receiving yet another text message from him while he was out at a social group situation. I spoke to him and told him that I realized this non-exclusive stuff wasn't working for me and I needed him to be monogamous if we were sexual. I reminded him that I was unhappy about the married woman stuff as well. He refused to agree to be exclusive. I cut it off.

Can any of you share how you deal with sex in new dating relationships? Do the women here expect the guy to be monogamous right from the beginning sexually if you decide you like the guy and want to explore a possible relationship?

This was the first time I've ever encountered a man not wanting to be exclusive (or at least coming out and telling me that is what he wanted). It threw me off my game and I agreed without really thinking it through. I since realized it wasn't what I wanted. If I am sleeping with a man that I feel I have potential with as a partner, I feel like I'm not emotionally secure enough to open up completely without us being exclusive.

I suppose I should be grateful that the guy told me about the married woman. It's becoming more and more clear that he is emotionally unavailable since he spends his time chasing unavailable (married) women.

Thoughts?

[megochick101]

Whenever I was in a new relationship I never really discussed if we would be exclusive or not. That being said, once our sexual relationship was started I expected that the man i was with would be only with me. I think once you have sex with someone(being a woman and the way most of us think) that that really starts the beginning of a committed relationship, where neither partners should stray at all. That's how I've always looked at my relationships. From the sex point on, in my mind, we were a couple and I expected fidelity.

[waringblender]

Thanks. That was very succinctly put and exactly the thoughts that were swirling around in my mind but had trouble articulating. :)

I'll also be running the other way the minute a man tells me he's seeing a married woman! Don't know what's up with that except that available women probably scare the **** out of him. It embarrassed me when he described the "agony" he was in with this woman - he was attempting to "reconcile" with her and get the situation going again, and she was pushing him away. I was embarrassed for him that he would engage in such behavior, and I was embarrassed for me that I put up with him being involved with her. :(

Appreciate the input.

[teko]

I would think if you are to the point of having sex, monogomy is a given? Oh well, telling my age again.  First of all, I would not have sex without being serious about someone and know the feelings are mutual. Otherwise, no relationship. you can give yourself sexual release if need be, gotta be something more on the table so to speak. I think you did the right thing. Definately!

[waringblender]

Thanks! I'm no spring chicken - 50 years old. All the more reason to cut them off if I am not getting what I want.

Still kicking myself for proceeding with him after learning about the married broad, but whatever. It happened and it's done. I learned something. :)

[ItalianGirl330]

"Can any of you share how you deal with sex in new dating relationships? Do the women here expect the guy to be monogamous right from the beginning sexually if you decide you like the guy and want to explore a possible relationship? "

Waring, at least this guy was honest with you.  You really can't expect a guy to be monogamous right away (or a man can't expect that of a woman).  It sounds like this guy wants to be free to do whatever he wants and you really don't have the time for someone like that.  That fact that he is sleeping with a married woman sort of says to me that he doesn't really take committment very seriously.  I know some marriages are a sham but then why don't those people either seek counciling or get divorced?  I don't understand why people stay in unhappy marriages and don't do anything about it.  Just my thoughts, I try not to judge other's situations.

You learned something from this situation.  If he won't take you out with him, it means he wants to be free to meet other people.  Do you really want that type of man?  He should want to show you off and include you in his life.

I think you lucked out by dumping this guy.  He doesn't sound like much of a prize except maybe he's a good lover (which is always nice).  

50 is young, you're probably really attractive and smart, and have no problem meeting men.  Just take this experience as another life lesson and gleen from it what you were supposed to learn and then go out and have some fun.  

I think when you finally do meet a good guy for you, I don't believe there is just one person for everyone, you will be so happy you're no longer with this guy.

Good luck.

[vmvnpv]

I, like you, expect it to be monogamous when a sexual relationship begins.  With that being said, he told you right off the bat that's not what he was looking for and you agreed to that.  You can't change the rules because you want him to be monogamous unless it's something he wants too.  That's why friends with benefits rarely ever works out because chances are someone (usually the woman) gets emotionally invested in the partner but the partner likes it the way it is.  Good for you for breaking it off but I applaud him for being upfront about everything with you so you knew what you were getting yourself into.  He could have been a jerk and made you believe your relationship was monogamous and then cheated on you.

BTW~run the other way, not only if he's seeing a married woman, but also if he's looking for a friend with benefits (which is what you were).  Otherwise this will happen all over again.

[waringblender]

He's called several times since last Monday when I broke it off. I got a different "reason" for his not wanting to be monogamous during each phone call. Claims he may be "making big mistake." His first reason last week was not enough dating experience after a long marriage and a married lover (I was the third woman.) Another reason was he didn't want to just **** or date a bunch of other women (!!) but was wanting to shore up his "social" skills in these social groups because he is terrified of being alone!

The other reason was that any relationship we have is bound to end, and then he'd be lonely and alone again, "facing" his "abyss," so what was the point? He's big on describing himself as always "teetering on the edge of an (emotional) precipice."

I kept phone calls as short as I could. I did not respond to a message he left yesterday. I told him very clearly that he needed to be monogamous and he needed to cut it off with the married broad, and that was my position and wasn't going to change.

Did I forget to mention he is already in therapy 2x a week.

He exhibits classic commitmentphobic signs and really did from the start. I'm glad I got out of it as quickly as I did.

Appreciate everybody's input. Helps to have some tough love. :o)

Have a first meeting tonight with a 57-year-old guy who spent 45 minutes on the phone with me talking about how much money his last girlfriend took him for after they split up. :o( Should I even bother. Another thing he mentioned on the phone is that he has several "blogs" where he outlined his entire relationship with the last woman and how the break-up affected him.  Holy cow, the last thing I want if something goes south is my personal life splashed all over google.

Are there any non-traumatized men in my age group. :o(  

[teko]

LOL! You are too funny! I hope he is worth your time, if not I want the link to his blog! Have a great time tonight! lol

[waringblender]

I am somewhat prominent in my local community in relation to certain civic issues. I'm terrified he'll ask what my last name is, and if he's crazy, there's no telling what he'll say on his "blog." :o(

[ItalianGirl330]

I am 49 and I can tell you that there are very men out there who have it together.  Most have been traumatized by some "woman" in their past who took advantage of them either emotionally or financially.  

Men, for some reason, can seem to bounce back from bad stuff that happens to them.  I had a guy show up to a date so drugged out from pain meds that he made no sense. He also talked about his 2 ex-wives, a son who wants nothing to with him, and a girlfriend that he loves (she's the love of his life) but she's....married.....and can't get out it.

The first guy is screaming insecurity to me.  He's afraid of being alone?  Most men are afraid of being alone which is why they usually hook up with the first girl they meet after they break up with someone else.   Just tell him that you wish him well but what you need is someone willing to be committed to YOU and not because he's afraid of being alone or because you will leave him.  There are no guarantees in life.  You could get married and then die in a car wreck 2 weeks later.  Or get cancer.  Sadly, I don't have much hope for him except it's a shame he won't take the chance of being monogomous.

The guy tonight.  Go out, have some fun, meet a new person, but he doesn't sound like someone to get involved with .  You don't want your personal life on a blog somewhere and it sounds like that's what he does.  I would just go out with him to see if there is any chance (could be slim) that he's a good guy for you but that's it. More curiousity than anything.

[ItalianGirl330]

Sorry, I was typing fast.  

My post should read:

I am 49 and I can tell you that there FEW are very men out there who have it together.

and

Men, for some reason, can't seem to bounce back from bad stuff that happens to them in relationship.  I don't think our culture helps them, but there is plenty of help for women.  We like to talk to each other about feelings and men.

[mami1323]

Who hasn't been through bad stuff.  It's called life experience.  I'm so tired of men using their past as an excuse to be cold and completely afraid of commitment because of a horrible break up from 1985.  Date a man who from the get has his sh!t together.  Don't go for a man who is already whinning and moaning about what his ex did to him.  The fact that he talks about his breakup in a blog is a scary thought, what is he John Mayer...lol.  Look for men who are looking for the same thing you are and if they seem weird from the start, walk the other way.

[waringblender]

Yeah, the men tend to isolate themselves - until they meet a new women. We don't allow men in this culture to express many emotions, especially with other men. Anger is always "allowed," but that's about it. :( Which may be one reason men like the connection to women.

My girlfriend told me over the weekend she heard a psychologist on a radio show (male psychologist) and he said the 3 things men need are 1) having a claim on a woman (they want the monogamy, or being the boyfriend/girlfriend or cementing the "relationsihp" somehow); 2) they want to take care of the woman (not necessairly financial, but their right- braininess and problem-solving abilities come into play here: and 3) they want sex.

And if the only thing a guy wants is #3, that's not going to work for me. :(

I also am trying not to idealize the guy who didn't want the monogamy. We had incredible conversations and incredible dates, and great sex in the short time we dated. But he had a rage-aholic wife (22 years) and I could see behaviors and remarks coming out of him where it was clear he was probably trying to provoke me to get angry - and I wouldn't fall for it. I'm the type that shuts down when threatened or provoked. I don't lash out.

I don't blame him for doing it, it is what he was familiar with - a woman who treats him like dirt. I treated him wonderfully, and he just didn't know where to go with it! :o/

It's only been a week but I'm still kinda comparing these other guys to him. :( I know he had his flaws though. Yikes.

The guy tonight: Yeah, it'll just be a nice way to meet someone but I don't hold out much hope. I need to be very careful not to reveal too much about myself. I can do that - talk about my career, etc., without getting into too much detail.

Also he sounds like a guy who is more into talking about himself than listening, based on our phone call. So I'll just let him talk and then beat it out of there. :D

[waringblender]

Mami - thanks. Well said. Jesus christ, these men who make the women the targets of their past dysfunctions gets so old after a while.

I'm sure women do it too, for pete sake, but being a straight woman, I'm coming at it from the perspective of the men. Not wanting to get together because the "relationship will end eventually" is just b.s. cowardice.

Lame excuses with clueless guys.

Enough said.

[vmvnpv]

lol.  The first guy sounds like a doozy!  I say meet the other guy tonight.  Hopefully he won't talk too much about the money or anything else that shouldn't be shared on a first date.  Good guys are hard to come by but they are out there.  Good luck with your date tonight!  

[imanaddict]

This guy doesn't want a relationship, plain and simple. He wants his cake and eat it too. The messing around with a married woman is proof right there! He wants to be able to have his "fun" with no strings attached. It's nearly impossible to "change" a man, and trying would probably be a waste of your time. He made it clear in the beginning of his expectations, and if you were not okay with that, you should walked right then and there. It's really hard for us women to separate love from sex and we get our feelings involved even when there's a big red flag flashing in neon bold letters saying "NO". it's just the way we are wired. My advice is to move on and find someone else who IS willing to put YOU as a priority, and no one else. Good luck!!

[waringblender]

I love this forum. :o)

Incredible moral support here. Wow. You guys don't know how morale boosting it is to hear your opinions and your experiences shooting from the hip. It's worth a lot.

[imanaddict]

I can definitely relate!! I come here for answers a LOT! People that don't even know me, can give me the best advice ever, and I usually alway listen to it too. Medhelp is like a family to me, and it will be for you too :)

[waringblender]

Especially when you realize your feelings about an issue are back and forth (which is normal), it's good to hear the perspective that you made the right decision. :o)

[waringblender]

Oh good lord that guy for the meeting tonight is calling me on the phone while I'm at work to chat! Can't he wait until 7 p.m. Jesus, what kind of needy bast***d am I dealing with here.

Plus he's bragging about how much money he made selling his software companies. I'm a fricking Communist - I don't give a rat's *** about his money. :o/

[teko]

LOL! Take the money and run, dont be stupid! lol  He has really got the hots for you, look out!!!

[vmvnpv]

I hate to say it but he sounds like he has issues too.  Either that or he's really trying to impress you!

[waringblender]

The guy spent the majority of our meeting talking negatively about the ex who took him for a ride financially. He used a very sadistic voice when he said something like "I've got me a ******* great lawyer if  any woman even thinks she can do that to me again!" He also mentioned the blog stuff again - I couldn't believe how off-the-cuff he was in recounting how he splashed their entire relationship out in public like that. He had people visiting his blog and "commenting" on his relationship with the woman. :O

I was horrified. :( Yeah, a lot of men get screwed over, but jeez, do you have to dwell on it? Just move on and try to enjoy any future partners.

He never asked what my last name was, so I dodged a bullet as far as ending up as a potential train wreck on his "blog." Jesus. He's called me twice this morning  (it's only 10 a.m. here!) and in the second call I told him it wasn't him, it was "me," and I realized I wasn't "ready" to see people since I just got out of a breakup. I thanked him for the nice evening.

Okay, next! :D

[mami1323]

Lol...I can't stand men who call you like the next morning after a date.  It's like let the dust settle a little please.  He sounded like he was going to be a potentially bad date but it's good that you got out there.  Did you at least get a free meal out of it?  He's obviously 1. self absorbed and 2. emotionally traumatized by his past relationship.  Better to know now than later.  Good luck with the next one, keep us posted.

[BearHitch]

Well... I think it is good you broke it off.  However, to me, to say you are dating would assume being exclusive anyway... let alone the fact you were having sex.  I never really understood the concept of seeing lots or several people at one time and sleeping with them too.  My sister does that and I think she uses the term "open relationship."  So - to me, dating is an actual relationship with 2 people.  Just what I think.

[teko]

I think you need a change in venue! Visit a country club or learn to golf or play tennis. Go where the rich and unattached are.  If I could do over, I would definately look for more lucrative surroundings.  That way if it dont work out, I am not any worse for wear, so to speak! lol  Yuck! It makes me glad I am married! What a nightmare!

[vmvnpv]

It's stories like these that make me glad I'm married too!  I don't think I could survive singlehood again.  I'm glad you got through the date and hopefully he won't call you after you spoke to him today.

[waringblender]

Yeah, it's a cold cold dating world out there. :( You should be glad you're married. It's tough, especially as you get older. I refuse to buy into the statistics too much, though. All I need is one! :o)

I'm taking a break for a few days. Sometimes you just don't want to focus on all the dating sh!t.  :(

[ItalianGirl330]

You did a good thing.  A man that still talks bad about a past relationship has not learned anything from that .  He played a part in it as well.  In my experience, if you let someone take advantage of you, they will.  It sounds like that's what happened with him and now he is mad but putting all the blame on the ex.  I would love to hear the ex's side.

Move on girl.  There's someone out there that will be a good fit for you.  Someone that will really be committed and watch out for your best interest. I've know several women who get married for the first after 50.  I don't believe those statistics either.  All we need is one, that's it.  It's just finding him.

I also agree wtih you about the casual sex thing.  If you don't have deep feelings for someone, sex can stay casual and your emotions don't get hurt if that person moves on.  But if you like someone, and think there's a future, casual sex is too hard.  At least that's been my experience.  When I really like someone, I want them to be exclusive with me and hopefully move on to a more permanent relationship.

For those of you in happy, satisfied marriages, kiss your hubby's and tell them you love them.  Marriage isn't easy, it's not a fairytale, but it's nice to know that you have someone who cares about you and wants the best for you.

Pleasant thoughts for everyone today.  

[waringblender]

Yep, that's why it's a total turnoff to hear the incessant bad-mouthing about exes. I don't do it but doing it on a first date is such bad form.

And you are so right about hearing her side.

We all as women seem to want to engage in the fantasy that we are the only "good" woman for any of these guys. The truth is that most women are probably "good" women! And good women hook up with bad guys ALL THE TIME.

I've always thought there was an underlying patina of misogyny about these men who bad-mouth their women. When you think about it, there is just something very distasteful and unseemly about it. They purported to love this person for a period of time; to want what was best for them.

So yeah, you always have to keep in mind that you are hearing one side of the story and leave it go. I actually tried that tack the other night with the guy - "Well, enough about her, eh? Let's move on to happier topics!" I really tried to steer him away, but he was persistent in wanting to keep on about her. That tells me that he is also not "over" her.

Unresolved issues, unresolved issues, unresolved issues. Neon signage not even required. Unresolved issues.