OMG Is she doing this stuff on purpose or freaking what

[cdm763]

So I finally, after two or three days of trying to find a way to talk to my wife about our situation (Not ABOUT to go back over everything here, you can see the two threads titled "How upset should I be, if at all?", and "Question for the ladies" if you need or want some background on the situation). I finally decide to try and let her know whats going on with ME, and what I've been doing to try to help the situation (The situation being our marriage and/or sex life), and giving her some idea of the many different comments/advice that I've seen and read online, etc... So I basically told her (And I would be happy to copy and paste exactly what I sent her this morning, just to show that I worded everything VERY CAREFULLY, so as to make sure she understood that I wasn't trying to start any type of argument, but rather I am simply interested in making our marriage better) that I loved her very much, that we've been together for the better part of 10 yrs, and that I've been thinking about it, and I feel that I have been guilty of allowing our sex to feel "10 yrs old" as well. I put everything on me, my fault, and made it clear that I was ready to fix that mistake. I explained that a lot of my research has lead me to believe that the best, fastest, and easiest way to handle this type of situation is to simply focus on becoming exactly what your spouse wants/needs in every area of your marriage, including (And some say ESPECIALLY) the bedroom. I explained that the one thing every single website, comment, etc, had in common was that the obvious thing to do, especially if you've been together long enough to be comfortable with each other, is to simply communicate. I explained to her that when I woke her up yesterday morning with a massage, followed by 20 to 30 minutes of slow, sensual touching and kissing, that it wasn't by accident, that I was trying something different than normal, hoping that it would be a noticable difference for her. I then explained that I was a bit shocked and disappointed that there was actually no response at all, no reaction out of the ordinary from her, no mention afterwards about anything at all. However, I explained that it was OKAY, that I have also learned that what works for most or some women, may not for others. All women are different, have different bodies, like to be touched in a different way or in different areas to really get them going, so I explained that its NOT her fault. I said it was more my fault because I didn't take the most agreed upon advice I was given, to COMMUNICATE, and so that was the purpose of my message to her this morning. I told her that I was willing to try different things, and continue to make every effort on my end because she was that important to me. I then explained that in order for this to be effective though, we are going to need to communicate. I went on to say that I know she is usually not into the same type of romantic stuff that most women are, and thats okay, but that if she doesn't let me know that, then I won't know that I'm wasting mine and her time spending 30 minutes on a massage and rundown and all that stuff. Also, that if there's something or thingS that she likes that I don't do, I'll never have any way of knowing if he doesn't tell me. I also reminded her that I hope she doesn't take the message the wrong way, but instead I hope she sees it for the positive side, that she has a husband devoted enough to her that he's willing to go through all this just to make sure that she is and always will be totally satisfied with every aspect of our marriage.

I poured my heart out (Against every manly instinct in my body) to this woman, and awaited her response. It came, and it read as follows:

Hey big daddy. No don't worry honey, I didn't take it the wrong way and you are the best husband I could ever dream of having. Love you too.

Thats it!!! Nothing else... Not a "Hey baby that sounds great and I can't wait to get started tonight"... Or "Actually honey, I'm sorry if I didn't make it noticable, but I really did enjoy that yesterday morning. It was a very pleasant surprise"... Or even "Well, I'm glad you feel that way baby, because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, but I wanted to tell you that you know I'm not into all that roance stuff"... I mean, ANYTHING!!! Something to show me she's on board... Something to show that I'm not the onloy one trying here... This is just unexplainable... I don't know what to say...

[cdm763]

Specialmom: I was diagnosed with depression right around the end of 2006, about a yr and a half before we split up... Yes, the depression was a major contributor to our unhealthy relationship back then, in my opinion. I've actually been doing A LOT better over about the past year, as it appears my dr has finally found a combination of meds that work for me. However, I certainly DO NOT discount the possibility of you being right on the money on that statement. I might would have argued 3 yrs ago, but after dealing with depression for 5 yrs now, nothing surprises me anymore about its underlying effects.


womanontop: Lol, yes I read the replies, I just choose to ignore the ones that disagree with my way of thinking... No, seriously, I try and take in the advice whether the person agrees or disagrees with me. I'm probably not the best in the world at listening, as you and Ashelen both stated. I'm definately a talker (Been a car salesman for 10 yrs now), and my wife is NOT very good with expressing herself through words. I was thinking about it last night, trying to "make excuses" for her (I know, couldn't think of a better way to say it) in my mind because I WANT DESPERATELY for this to work this time. The one thing that did cross my mind was that, at this point, could it simply be that she is almost "afraid" to say too much for the fear of saying the wrong thing? I could buy that argument. In fact, I think there's a real possibility thats exactly what the issue is at this point, since anything and everything she's said has caused more harm than good. I really believe she loves me, and she made a nice effort last night that was certainly a step in the right direction to remove any doubt about whether or not we love each other on the same level. I was actually, genuinely impressed, and told her as much as I thanked her for her words and actions. Honestly though, the time we spend together in the living room, or at the movies as a family, etc, is the easy part to work out, that just takes minimal effort on her part, which she put forth last night. In fact, thats really all it took for me on that issue. I'm done with that now. I have no doubt that she is willing to put the same effort into this as I am, and therefore I'm satisfied with that aspect of the situation. Its those 8 or 9 hours in the bedroom every night that I honestly no longer see, as of right now at least, any way of resolving.

I layed on the couch last night trying to sleep, and I seriously (And not sarcasticly) wondered if I would be okay with a marriage in which we love each other, we show affection, the whole nine yards, but we sleep in different rooms and only have sex on those rare occasions, if at all. I wondered if she'd be okay with that, assuming I could live with it that way. I THINK I could, I really do, as I've always been (Even as a young man in my early 20's) very capable of turning down sex at any given time. It was actually a trait that I was kind of proud of back in the day, as it set me apart fromt he other guys, and I was sort of "known" for it among the females in the small town that I grew up in. Funny thing though, its not neccesarily the sex in general that I don't know if I'm willing to live without (Again, I know 100% that I can do that if I want to), but its simply not fair (Yeah, call me a spoiled child) that I should have to live like that. I love her, people. More than anything. I can't believe I opened myself up to a woman who probably has every reason in the world to want to "give me a tatse of my own medicine". I'm out for now. As always, thanks for all the replies, and believe it or not, I DO read them, and I make an honest effort to see all sides of the issue. I wouldn't be putting this stuff on here if I were simply interested in MY OPINION, I already know what that is....

[Ashelen]

I agree with Woman and Specialmom...PLEASE listen to them. You're reacting, not acting. And you're reacting to something you've imagined is happening - to the rest of us, objectively, it doesn't seem to be the way you think it does...I really wish you would think about that for a minute!

[specialmom]

In life, sometimes we create our own problems and drama.  I think you are falling into this category.  I'm going to ask you a serious question------------  do you possibly have depression or depression with anxiety?  I hear a hint of it in your writings.   And often in men, anxiety/depression surface as anger. As it seems that you are being irrational, I'd hate to see you blow a good/decent relationship over manufactured problems.  And if it is stemming from things going on within you, that would be even more of a shame.  
good luck

[Womanontop]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    

Woa! Simmer down boy! You are one red blooded passionate male! That is hot! I ask you... in all honesty... Are you reading the posts people have been suggesting to you?

Honestly, it looks like she is not putting too much in to this re relationship because she is waiting for you to screw this up again. Don't fail this test bro. She is expecting you to crack under the pressure/ You need to back off on up out of this painting of frustration and take a good look. Do you want her love under your terms and conditions or are you going to love her unconditionally. Ask yourself this one question..."Do I want to grow old with this woman?" She is watching your every move to see how sincere you are. You said you have changed? Then don't morph back into your old self if you do not get the reaction you are looking for. It is totally a natural human thing to do I will admit. You seem like a tlker. Try becoming a listener. Your wife may not say much but that is because she makes every word count. Listen to her silence. Listen to her actions. Her language is not your language. So unless i am totally wrong about this, you need to turn of the sirens for war very soon before you rationalize her away again. Good luck. I think I am going to put something on this post to catch your attention and make sure you are reading them. Like I said become a listener. There are good things right in front of you. Don't scare them off in anger....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[cdm763]

Yeah, whoever said that it seems that we have each assumed the role as the opposite gender, it seems you're right. Funny thing is how far the exact opposite was true during our first seven years. I guess when I came back I wanted to show her that I had changed, and I have. Its not fake. Our two plus years apart gave me an appreciation like I'd never had before about the whole concept of family. What I find rather odd is how much more respect I got when I was a complete joke of a husband. I always SAID thats how a lot of women are, but I don't know if I really believed it, or I was just making excuses for my behavior. Either way, I see it now. It probably won't matter much pretty soon because I can slowly feel my self on the inside turning back into the jackass that I used to be. She wants a MAN rather than a doormat?? Well, guess what?? She's about to get one, just like she had the first damn time around... I've had about enough of it....

[TTinKKerBBell]

I LOVE how Your wife answered You -  it was Good and I thought Very, Very Sweet!!) It sounds to me exactly what You were looking for - but in HER words - not Yours..  You can't choose someone else's words but in Her Own words it sounded like what You are hoping to achieve.  (I STILL think You are OVER thinking this)   You want to choose the words???? HER words are good too - just not YOUR words.  Look at the sentiment here -not the choice of words BUT THE SENTIMENT.
I think You and She are doing GOOD.
That being said, I'm totally impressed by Your Involvement/Interest/Concern inYour Relationship with Your wife

[brice1967]

I'll add this.  Communication is difficult.  Sometimes we read too much into things, sometimes we walk away from a conversation feeling empty or as if we apparently missed the point.  This is where clarification becomes important.

Her comment to you sounded short and sweet to me.  Perhaps, as suggested above, you're a communicator and she is not.  It can be that simple.  (My wife and I are both good talkers/orators, but we both are working on communiction skills... there is a difference.  Communication has a lot to do with hearing, therefore clarification is key.)

She should be willing to tell you what she wants.  You seem willing to do whatever.  Let me ask you this.... what is it that you are not getting out of the relationship?  Not trying to be offensive but, the problem may be more yours than hers.  Take a step back and reevaluate all the advice that's been given to you.  You can ask what it is that you can do better, that does no harm.  But listen.... clarify if need be... then move on.  If you don't believe what she is saying, that is your problem and you need to figure that out.  Has she given you reason to doubt?

[Ashelen]

Once again, I really hope you read my original response to your original post because you asked me to elaborate, and I did. I think you are way overthinking this.

I think stepping back and letting things get simpler will do you some good, I really do. Stop over-analyzing everything about yourself and everything she says or do - neither of you will win, if you do this. If every single move, twitch, breath, word you made/said was analyzed to death, you would be doing something wrong too no matter how hard you tried...so give her a break, and give yourself a break. things sound like they're going FINE :-).

[penswriter]

I'm with rockrose. What she said was sweet and quite honestly is sort of like something I'd say to my husband.

So it wasn't exactly what you wanted her to say but it wasn't negative. At all.

[specialmom]

Well,  first let me tell you that in a public format like this you really do have to give a little background whether you had another post or not because going back and reading old posts is time consuming.  I was away for a couple of days and do not know your situation and am going to respond anyway.  I feel confident those here gave helpful comments for you---------------  and will leave it at that.  I want to help but find if something on the internet is too complicated----------  I leave it.  That is an FYI.  These posts become part of an archive and get pulled up at random so background provided briefly and succintly on each post is really helpful.

Okay.  Without knowing the history-------------  heck.  I think she gave a really sweet response.  I am not a huge fan of writing out all of our inner feelings and giving it to someone.  I think a better idea is to write it out, read it a few times and then tell her you want to talk.  Then talk about it.  Writing to her means she can respond with a short, sweet message and feel like she did her part.  If you want to have a deep and meaningful conversation with her------------ make it a real conversation in which you talk face to face.  If you can't do that------------------  THAT is a problem.  

good luck

[RockRose]

cdm,  the other day when I said she was mean spirited, it was before you posted what she actually had said to you.  I thought at first,  she just stared at you and blew you off,  so that seemed mean.  What she says is so sweet,  and complete,  I don't think she needs to go on and on and on and on with her response - what she said covered it.

It looks like  you two have your roles pretty much reversed from the average couple.  Your behavior is very female,  and her response is male.  Which is fine,  that's how the two of you work together.

But I think at this point,  she's maybe reaching the point of saying OH FGS WHAT NOW???

Like when you explain a joke it becomes not funny,  when you over analyze sex moves and responses, it loses it's appeal.   Confidence is so much more sexy than self-doubt.

Enjoy her.  She's ready to enjoy you.  

[anonymous3691]

Talk to her casually about what kind of stuff SHE likes? Or watch some romantic movies and see where she is most interested at,
You seem nice tho, so don't give up easily :) !

[Womanontop]

Sorry you did not get the response you wanted. I think she has you by the balls bro and she is enjoying it. Has she always been a taker? Or has this been since you two go back together? I have a husband that acts very much the same. Not very responsive in the bedroom no matter how sexy I tease. I tie him up... no response... just like a retarded school boy looking dumbfounded.... I continue and get aggressive, maybe strip tease and dance for him... Nothing. I finally dominate and get mine... Ok there it comes.. a little moan from him but only at El Grand Fin! So I hear your efforts. In the end I am just thankful I get my daily dose of sex! Look at the bright side... you still get some and from the woman you love. Things could be worse, she could refuse you altogether. Give her some time to regain her trust in your relationship. It is all in her head and it sounds like there has been some damage done in there rattling around somewhere. I ask you this, have you broken her trust? Unfaithful to her? Well for some girls/ guys, that'll do it! Never say die bro. Keep try'n. Maybe she will come around, or maybe she won't. Either way, do you love her enough to put up with this "nonsense"? Only you know. (Sounds oddly similar to my situation) Thanks for sharing.

[jenkaye21]

It does sound like you are trying very hard.  Good for you.  Truth is, some women just aren't that good at communicating, either.  Don't give up.  Keep trying to get her to talk.  Maybe she will be more open in person than thru e-mail . Maybe she just didn't have much time to reply.  IDK.  But keep trying. She should be glad to have a husband willing to make such an effort.