Relationship: Not wanting kids

[Treeleaves]

I am 36 and my husband 38 and we have been married 3 years and know each other now for 5. I have wanted kids for 2 years now and have been waiting for my husband to be ready. He has used a list of excuses for delay, from not having medical insurance to me being not a good mother. The situation is perfect ; we both have well paying jobs, insurance, settled. Now he has come up with the excuse that he is questioning the marriage. This last excuse he has been using for the past 8 months. However we are happy when together, we spend weekend away, enjoy time with each other and are affectionate romantically and sexually. We have our disputes and failed expectations, but nothing more than in a normal marriage. This feedback I have received from our family and his brother who is a psychiatarist He has told my husband that I do have the right to have kids in this marriage especially since nothing was mentioned about not having kids before, and if nothing is wrong with me then he should fulfil this, or if the marriage is not suiting him he should decide. Now he has dragged this on for almost another year. If I do not bring up the children issue, he is fine in his everyday living, very loving etc. However he did once only admit he has irrational fears, and his mother is a borderline and has left the family after some fights with the kids and the father.

What do I do. He says he loves me, and expresses it, and in no way shows he wants to end the relationship. However on the kids issue, he expresses his dissatisfaction with the marriage. We went to counselling for several months but little issues were sorted out first, when it came to talk about the baby he stopped going saying the counsellor was biased since she was a woman. Now more than wanting kids, I am filled with resentment at being blamed and treated this way. He is not giving any deadline on making a decision. My love for him and respect are waning fast.

Confused and desparate to have kids.

[anxiousmomtobe?]

Well first of all, if he is saying he has doubts about the marriage, I wouldn't be  getting pregnant.

I guess you will have to decided if you can live without kids, if you can't, you may need to leave the relationship.

[jd1419]

I would maybe sit him down with his brother--if he feels comfortable--lay out that you are not getting younger (both of you) and you need to decide by this time frame if he is really committed to having children.  If he can not committ you are going to have to go your seperate ways and find someone new.  If his mother has some mental problems maybe he is scared that he will pass this on to his own children or if he has kids that his mental state will detroiate with the stress of raising kids.

[Jordy]

I have to disagree with the advice of sitting him down with his brother.  I believe there is professional conflict of interest or something like that; psychiatrists are not supposed to "treat" family members.  I think therapy definitely is in order to get you two on the same page and make some real decisions about the future of your marriage, but NOT with his brother.  That's just asking for trouble.  An unbiased, unrelated "stranger" for a therapist is in order.

[barn babe]

They already went through therapy, "Jordy." The guy bailed when the important issue of the baby was brought up. Clearly, he's stuck on it and doesn't want kids.

The problem is that the OP is looking  at a biological clock issue, unless she wants to adopt. And I agree with the other poster that you certainly don't want to get pregnant with a guy who is ambivalent about starting a family.  

The line of reasoning that the kid thing wasn't mentioned in the beginning of the marriage is bogus.  People change all the time, throughout the course of their lives. That's why relationships are so hard.  A good partner who is committed to you and to the relationship will be able to handle changes that occur in the relationship and in their partner.

I see no "conflict of interest" in discussing anything with the brother who happens to be a shrink. This stuff happens all the time. My sister is a foot surgeon, and I get advice from her all the time about my sports injuries. My current partner is an ER doc, and he always answers whatever medical questions I have.  I'm a lawyer and give my opinions to my family members and friends all the time; they are welcome to take it or leave it, and I certainly don't "charge" them for my expertise. Plus, we are talking about a family relationship. If he's close to his brother, it doesn't matter that he's a  shrink.  The guy still might have an opinion about it, for heavens sakes. Most docs are well aware of the business about not treating family and friends, but I've got plenty of friends and family members who are doctors, and we have conversations all the time about medical issues where it's just free flow of information and giving opinions.  Nobody's "treating" anybody.

Sounds like you might end up throwing this guy under the bus, unfortunately.  He has to come to this decision, either with help from you and/or a therapist, or on his own. If he doesn't, and you are set on getting pregnant, I guess it won't be with this guy.

[2om2om]

he seems to love u, but kids are important. and choosing to have them is a big deal And all the love in the world from a man is not more important then him saticfiing u in this department, it's not like ur asking to have a three sum, if he keeps putting it off, and i hate to say this But then you should get out. Kids r kids u have then u raise them they r a part of life the best part, I have no kids and don't want any but i how this is causeing a rift, becuse although the problem is with him not wanting kids, it will effect and hurt u emotionally,  and make u question ur self worth,and that is not good, an u arn't getting younger u don't have alot of time left to choose, I would say to put it all on the line if ur desire to have kids is greater then ur love for ur husband, i am not for devorice but kids r kids.... And u seem to really want them. I say tell him he has got a month to think it over kids and you or no kids no u... then ask for a devorice, let him know u love him and u r not trying to back him into a corner, but u feel like ur life is not as complete with out taking this next step, y should u be left out. He might become very aggetated at this and agree to a divorice, but if u don't u may never know the joy of holding ur own child in ur arms. There is not time limit on finding the love of ur life, u have ur whole lifetime, but there is a time limit on having a kid of ur own. Y should u go through life feeling unfullfilled

[Jordy]

Barn babe, I mentioned distance from using the brother as a "therapist" only because people are specifically mentioning "sitting down with the brother."  Specifically, the brother.  Why not other family members too?  If so, I can see it, but the mention of the brother only points to the fact that people are viewing the brother as a specific authority based on his profession.  All I meant was that could get messy if THAT is the intention.  If it's casual family viewpoints, then no problem.

[peekawho]

This is a major problem.  If he won't go to counseling with you, go alone. Or perhaps try a male therapist.  

But in any event, it seems he has made his choice about children, and you need counseling NOW to make your choice about the marriage.  

If he won't explore this furthur with you, go alone.  Good luck!

[Stratusphr]

did y'all discuss this before you got married?  has he changed his mind or was it not talked about?  i'd be throwing the BS flag down when he starts using all those excuses to avoid having a child.  he is using all the excuses to avoid the real issue, whatever that may be.  you need to get to the bottom of it and then make a decision.  he is going to keep on and may cause damage that can't be repaired.  you may want to move on one way or the other.  good luck.

[Treeleaves]

Thank you for your support and feedback. I feel the relationship is questioned only when kids are brought up. His mother was borderline and abusive to them in different ways. I understand he has a skewed view of women and maybe fears I will be like this or use the kids against him maybe like his mother did with his father. However the point is not this, the point is how can he come around to seeing this and working on it. Otherwise it just seems that he is happy with life and gets on with doing things that he enjoys. This kids issue does not bother him unless I bring it up. It is his indecision that is bothering me and the fact he does not want to work on himself to make the decision. His brother will not give him therapy but sit with him including his father to let him know that his dragging the issue on is not fair to me and he needs to make a decision. Sometimes we all question our relationships and are unhappy at times, but we keep strengthening them. If there comes a point where it is downhill and keeps downhill then it is time to leave. This is as good as it gets and he needs to understand that. Maybe he thinks it will get better, but because the issue is causing rift it is making the relationship worse. If his fears are irrational and i am guessing they are, wouldn't having the kids anyway be better, once they are there he will be okay, and if not I can leave but have a child that I want so badly.

[peekawho]

I think that is an incredible jump to make, and a selfish one.  If you deliberately become pregnant hoping he'll come around and he doesn't, you are taking the chance of thrusting an innocent child into the midst of a potentially chaotic and unpleasant situation that was of YOUR choosing.  

Having a child is an incredible stress on the BEST of marriages.  

The ADULT thing to do is to tackle this head on, right now, no holds barred.  You want a child.  He needs to get counseling to either join you in this life-changing event, or you need to get out if he will not.  

If you deceive him and conceive without his knowledge and agreement, there are no words for what you've done besides despicable.  Adults don't do this.  

If he doesn't agree to having a child, and you still want one, separate and use a sperm donation to have your child if you must.  That way, an unwilling partner won't be duped into creating a child and paying for it for the next 18 years.  If you want and can afford a child by yourself, then do it.  But don't assume your husband will just magically be overjoyed by your unilateral decision.  If he isn't totally on board with this, he'll seethe privately and rightly feel used.  

[barn babe]

Great comments, peekawho.

"It is his indecision that is bothering me and the fact he does not want to work on himself to make the decision"

Well, this speaks volumes, doesn't it? It may be "as good as it gets" for you, but again, this guy may be having second thoughts about the entire relationship if it means having kids.

[anxiousmomtobe?]

I agree with peek, tricking a man and getting pregnant is despicable.  A child deserves to enter the world being eagerly anticipated by both his parents.  Can you imagine the outcry on this forum if the story was reversed and he had tricked you into getting pregnant?

If you want kids and he is not sure, leave.

[Treeleaves]

Thank you for your feedback. And it makes me think about this. I live in a conservative country where marriage and children are the backbone of society and existence. It is funny the perspective you give is very western, here all the women here have said, 'it is your right to have kids in this marriage and go ahead and have them' and it comes from the fact that marriage means kids here. he has dragged this issue on for 2 years, and it seems does not care if i am getting older or will lose my chance to have a baby. seeing his attitude, i guess i do not care whether he feels duped or not. he is in the marriage and in a culture where marriage means kids, and he has kept saying, no yet, soon, soon and when push came to shove, used the relationship as an excuse.

and if it were the other way around, i would say i would never drag it on for 2 years in the knowledge that he may not be able to have kids later. i would give it 6 months and make a decision since i know he is waiting around for me. that is the right thing to do.

otherwise he is great with kids and has no aversion to them in any way. i hate to think the decision is mine...it is only mine once he says yes or no....if he keeps saying soon, or i will let you know...it is terrible for me to make the decision and i find it unfair.  

[Treeleaves]

yes and having a child for me would mean i can support it. in my country women do not have much rights be it in a divorce or alimony. i am more than happy to bring up the child on my own. i am educated, have a great job, have my parents around, and a lot of help. this country is slow paced and easy place to raise kids. i do not want him to contribute or participate if he does not want to. it is a male dominant society and his lack of empathy at my dilemma also comes for an innate sense of male privilege.

[waitingwithhope]

I think the thing is that you have a desire for something that your husband, although he seems to realize it, he does not want to fulfill it. Usually when men don't want to have kids and they come up with all sorts of excuses as to why it is either a) financial (but in your case it is not), b) he is thinking that the relationship is rocky. He would feel it is a threatened relationship and he does not want to have ties to a relationship so that he can leave, c) he already has established a new relationship and he does not want to financially support a child from another relationship or d) he is scared to be a father due to issues with his past and he can't handle that commitment on top of being a husband. In any of these cases, I would not want to have a child with him because you only want to have a child in the best relationships because in any shaky situation (even if he is emotionally not ready), this will threaten the whole relationship. And.. you would always have to have contact with him in some way for the rest of your child's life. I would suggest to him that you will support him in getting the help he needs to feel ready, but I also would tell him that you want to know point blank, right now, if he feels he might never be ready. He does owe that to you to be honest with you. If he feels he would never be ready, then you can then decide on your next steps. The resentment towards him might eventually grow to the point where it ends in a divorce--so you might as well find out the truth right now, whatever that truth is. He also is smart enough to know too that if he holds off long enough, you may past the period where you will be fertile and can have children and if he does that on purpose without letting you first decide if you can handle that, then that is both controlling and selfish of him to do that. He has to let you know what his true feelings are and then you can decide how you feel about everything once it is out on the table. Good luck...I know how hard it is to want a child...

[waitingwithhope]

p.s. I think the man also owes you his definition of soon (as in how many months, etc) if he keeps saying soon to you. Soon is the same thing as saying "maybe, maybe not" I think deep down he knows the answer as to whether or not it is yes or no.

[peekawho]

Sounds like you've already decided to trick him into it, then.  So what do you want with our opinions?  Go for it.  He'll feel used and angry eventually, divorce you, and then you'll have what you wanted all along--a child.  Hope it will be worth it.

You don't want an honest discussion with him, b/c you don't want to hear the answer.  You'd rather just be dishonest and create a child that YOU want.  

[anxiousmomtobe?]

In the perfect world, every child would have two loving parents who eagerly anticipate his/her arrival.

If he does not want a child, divorce him and visit a sperm bank.  To trick him into an unwanted (on his part) pregnancy is vile.  Imagine if he tricked you into getting pregnant....

Where in the world are you?  Surely it cannot be a completely male dominated society, especially since you are well educated and financially secure.  You need to either come to an agreement with your husband or leave him and find a new husband who will share your desire to have a family.

[peekawho]

I think we're wasting our breath.  I feel like the decision was made before she asked the question here.  Probably thought she'd hear a lot of poppycock about how he would grow to love the baby and everything would be ok.  

[Treeleaves]

this is a country, where women are stoned to death, domestic violence is not a crime, and rape is considered the crime of women and the women can go to jail for it. i am lucky to be 8 percent of the population who has an education, money and privileges...and i say privileges because these are not my rights.

aside from that, like I said, I have been holding off for two years in not having a baby. it is not like he said ' i am not sure' and i said okay i better start trying. secondly, a woman tricked into having a baby has more consequences than men because it affects their bodies for 9 months and afterwards, and also they are usually the main caregivers. thirdly, like i said, if i dragged someone along for 2 years then well someone will be tricking me soon.

i agree that ideally i should remove myself from the situation, go to a sperm bank but here that is a crime to have a baby without a father, the consequences and stigma for that baby will be more than the one for a divorce.

i agree that the relationship could end up in divorce, but the question is that is it not better for me to have a divorce with a child at my age. this society has already written me off, and it will be very hard to find another man at my age and outlook and education. because if he is not giving an answer than for me that is unacceptable and i will divorce him anyway.

his issues are deep rooted and his blame is usually projected on to me about why he does not want to have a child. in his anger he has said that i will never have children and i don't deserve them...i think the anger is more steming from his anger towards his mother....i will try to get him to counselling once again.

your comments have made me think. but i think you will in a very different society.

[anxiousmomtobe?]

Thank God we live in North America.  I gripe and complain about Canada all the time, but I have the ability to make my own life here.  I don't think she can even understand what we are saying as her culture is so removed from ours.  

I still say it is never right to trick a man into getting you pregnant, no matter what your culture is.  It is dishonest and disrespectful.  But obviously the op isn't going to listen to us anyways.  She has already made up her mind to do this wretched thing and has made excuses so it is appropriate behaviour.

[barn babe]

"Thank God we live in North America. I gripe and complain about Canada all the time, but I have the ability to make my own life here. I don't think she can even understand what we are saying as her culture is so removed from ours."

Don't be so hard on Canada! Hell, you guys have nationalized health care, gay marriage, and abortion rights. Here in Amerika, we're stuck with right-wing neocons in power (who got there illegally by stealing elections) and the hateful vile-spewing bigoted misogynistic religious fanatics trying to get rid of the separation of church and state.

****, I'd move to Canada in a heartbeat if someone up there would hire me. I don't know the ins and outs of your legal system, but I have a law degree from a top tier law school and a C.V. a mile long. My partner is an emergency room doc. Believe me - we've discussed getting the f*ck out of Dodge. This country sucks rocks right now, IMO.