Should I break up with a friend?

[mayflowers]

I've known this woman for a few years and we got to be really good friends, taking trips together, talking about our dating experiences, just regular fun stuff.  However, there were times that I noticed she would lie to get out of doing something with me (I found out later she was lying but she doesn't know I found out.)  I let it go because I just figured this was her.  She can be manipulative and very conceited too.  

Also, she can be really jealous of me and will say mean things to me.  Once she said she thought she was prettier than me!?!?  Another time she told me I looked chunky in pictures.  One time she brought up a particularlly embarrassing moment of mine when I was vulnerable.  Now, we are women in our 40's so we are not in high school.

Basically, all she is concerned with is getting married. I've been there, had boyfriends and right now, just want to live my life free and clear of relationships unless a great man comes along.

I really don't want to be friends with her.  I have been ignoring her emails hoping she would get the message but today she sent me another email asking if something is wrong or has she done something wrong.  I'll admit, I should have been more honest with her before this.  Should I just ignore her email again or should I actually say something to the effect "I don't want to be friends with you".  How can I say it without being mean??????

ANY advice would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[RockRose]

mayflowers - I really don't think you should say "I don't want to be friends with you".  That just burns bridges,  and you will never feel comfortable with her again,  ever,  at a party.  Also she'll tell everyone she knows and you'll look petty.

Just say something like "I've been really busy",  "I'm kind of into a lot of different project and missions right now",  etc.

She'll get the hint.  I know it isn't as honest as just saying I don't want to be your friend,  but in my circle of friends there are a couple people who've done that,  as much as 10 years prior,  and the feelings don't ever heal.

Best wishes.

[bip]

I would do the same tell you been very busy with stuff  you have alot going now. Its hard telling a friend you don't want to be friends with them I been there and all I said is Im busy and they got the hint. good luck

[mayflowers]

Thanks for your advice....I always wonder if there is a way of being honest that will help someone but I think it will just cause more hurt feelings and I don't want to hurt anybody.  She just isn't a healthy friend for me.  There has been so many times  I've come away from spending time with her  just to feel bad about myself and my life.  Like a black cloud hanging over me....

She also comes to me to help her with her problems but if I got a problem I know I can't talk to her about it because she has thrown things back in my face when I am vulnerable.   She is one of those people that just drains the life out of you but then asks you if it's ok.  Oh well, I am actually busy so at least that's not a lie :o)  Thanks again!

[bip]

It's hard breaking up a friendship. You sound like you will do fine.  You don't need friends treating you like that. I had so many friends in the past would treat me like that. I had enough with it. You'll be fine. Keep us posted let us know how everything went.

[anxiousmomtobe?]

And I would call her out when she says mean things...
"Thanks for the support....."
"I think I look great."
"Thanks for keeping my private things private"....

Don't let anyone speak unkindly to you.

[PlateletGal]

I have different thoughts on this. I think honesty is always the best policy. Otherwise people never learn anything or know what they are doing wrong. This is someone you've been friends with for so many years --- she deserves that. You would actually be doing her a favor if you told her that you know she's lied to you in the past and that has hurt your feelings. She's probably done it to other friends and unless someone says something to her, she will never know what is wrong. Since you don't want to be friends with her anymore, you may want to consider saying something like "I just think we are growing apart and moving in different directions".  

So that is my .002 cents worth. Whatever you choose to do, good luck !

[jojo24]

I agree with the above poster about being honest. But I also agree about not burning bridges with her either.  It's hard to open up to people and tell them what you really feel, but it needs to be done or she will never know why your friendship ended.  And maybe she will change.  Just tell her the reason you have been avoiding her is because of all of the mean nasty things she has been saying and doing to you and that you don't appreciate it.  Don't worry about hurting her feelings when it's obvious she never cared about yours.  If your honest with her it would probably be a slap in the face for her.  Don't be mean or say hurtful things to her, but just tell her the truth.  If you guys cannot resolve the issue after talking about it then go your seperate ways, but don't just come out and say that you don't want to be her friend anymore without telling her why.  She may learn a thing or two from what you say.

[PlateletGal]

Well said, jojo. I think avoiding the situation isn't healthy for both parties. It is so easy to play games and just ignore the person, but it really takes guts to do the right thing and be honest with them. By being honest with them, you could give your relationship a chance to heal or cut the ties for good. It is no different from ending any other relationship. I think the best way to do is not to be agressive, but be assertive, but also very compassionate. Do it when you aren't emotional. I think this advice will help the poster and her future relationships as well. She won't continue to let people walk all over her in the future.

[RockRose]

Hmmm.  I think she needs to decide:  1.  is the problem fixable?  2.  Do I still want her for a friend if she changes,  which is likely that she will when she hears the problems?

Honesty isn't the best policy.  Honesty can cause huge rifts,  and if you don't want to be friends with someone because you've discovered you really don't like their character,  it's best to keep your mouth shut and go on with your life and just quietly cut ties.

If this were a dear friend who has a fixable problem (her breath is horrible,  or her house is full of fleas,  or she's very chronically late,  etc.) then speaking up would be great.

If she's just a jerk,  and has never been a loving friend,  helping her figure that out isn't the hill I'd want to die on.

(Been there,  watched other women die on that hill,  glad it wasn't me!)

[mayflowers]

Thank you all for your responses.  This is very hard for me because  I don't like hurting people's feelings and I do think that honesty is a good thing.  Yet, I don't want to burn bridges with her in case we ever have to work together again.  There is so much lying when it comes to why any relationships ends.  One of the things that I keep thinking about is how she really never considered my feelings when she said inappropriate things or cancelled a dinner to go out with a guy (but said she was "sick").  Or when I caught her in lies and watched her try to weisel her way out of it. I want to say my piece so that I will feel like I did the right thing for both of us.   Thank you all for sharing and I will let you all know how this turns out.  Pray that I find the right words at the right time....:o)  

[PlateletGal]

One thing you keep talking about is hurting her feelings, but what about your feelings ?

Good luck with your decision. I had to learn the same lesson a few years ago myself.

[barn babe]

I agree with PlateletGal about just being honest with her. If things aren't working out with her as a friend, just tell her that. Hell, maybe she will see the light and get her own house in order and you may be able to continue seeing her, but who knows?  But you should be honest with her.

I'm astonished  at the advice given around here to "skirt issues," not tell the truth, and generally condone dishonesty when dealing with those in our lives. RockRose especially appears unable to confront reality and never advises open honest communication when these questions arise.

I don't condone dishonesty - with children or with other adults. Honesty and open communication are always best. And if it's a child you are dealing with, then be honest using  age-appropriate language.

[RockRose]

barnbabe - I've been honest with dear friends before,  and that works.

If someone I know pretty well turns out to be a jerk,  and I don't want to be friends anymore,  I just back off.

That was the sagest advice my mother ever told me,  and led by example - don't pick fights with people.  

I AM very honest when a dear friend asks for honesty - is something wrong with my child,  do you think I'm making a mistake marrying him,  etc.

Different strokes,  I guess.  I'll be honest where it warrants,  but I'm not creating rifts with people who I think aren't worth being friends with.

And as a result,  I've lived in this small community for 22 years and there's not one single person here in the town I am uncomfortable meeting on the street.  Not one,  literally.  

But I do host parties where I have to pick and choose the guest lists based on who's had this or that rift with another potential guest.

Just my opinion.

[mayflowers]

Rockrose & PlateletGal, you're both on the mark. Reading and writing this post has clarified my feelings.  She really isn't someone I want to stay friends with.  We've known each other off and on for years, had some good times, yet I knew something was "off", I learned the hard way that opening up my heart to her looking for support or some good advice and all I got was condemnation and then later, had it thrown back in my face.  This isn't a relationship I want in my life because she will always be sucking the life out of me when she "needs" too.  People like her don't change even when you are honest with them, you're right about that.  I think I just want to be on good enough terms so that if we run into each other we won't feel uncomfortable yet she will know that I'm not open to a friendship anymore.  Is this possible??? Maybe I'm dreaming on that one...

To all -  I have been honest and defended myself when she said or did something against me. The thing is, she would be ok for a while and then go back to her usual self.  It's like even being honest with her - she didn't "get it".  Some people are just clueless to how to behave, even when your honest.  Which then just leaves me with screaming at her and really hurting her but then I will feel terrible about ME and I'm getting a pissed off about feeling bad about myself around her.  

[PlateletGal]

This is a good discussion.

Mayflowers --- I'm happy that you came to a conclusion about this relationship. I can tell you from what you've posted, that my thoughts is that this woman doesn't know how to be a friend. In addition, she sounds very insecure (trust me.... all conceited people really are) and her intentions towards you aren't sincere. I've dumped any and all friends that didn't have good intentions towards me. Friends that are real friends are the ones that are happy when you achieve something.... they aren't jealous or try to make you feel bad about yourself.

RockRose --- I disagree with you on this one because if Mayflowers ignores her so-called friend, then her friend will be upset. Either way, her friend may be upset. But this really isn't about her friend as it is about Mayflowers. I know that when I did the same thing years ago with one of my "friends", I felt so good about myself afterwards. It was the way I handled it that made me feel so good. I handled it honestly and in my opinion, I took the high road. And guess what ? I still talk to this person, but not as often as I used to. At least now, she doesn't disrespect me.

[RockRose]

See,  I don't think that's the high road.  I think the high road would be to quietly back off and let the friendship drop,  and don't give her anything to gossip about you for,  and don't gossip about her.

(Not saying that you have,  but I'd bet REAL money that she's gossiped to anyone who will listen,  over and over,  about you telling her off).

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.  ;D

[barn babe]

I like the comment about taking the high road. That's a good point about how YOU felt about the way you dealt with it, Platelet Gal. Because that's ultimately what it's about. Rock Rose, I understand about not wanting to cause rifts, but rifts happen. Hell, they happen when we think we're being totally cool about situations and didn't know we "did anything" to cause them.

So I say be as open as possible and let the chips fall where they may. The most common form of learning in our culture is modeling. That means that it's very possible that the person to whom you are addressing the open communication will take something from it that can help them improve their own behavior. Sometimes not, but you never know.

I also think if you end up not being honest, it sort of turns into a cancer inside yourself. You end up burying a lot of the emotions, like anger, or frustration, or hurt - whatever it is that triggered the need for the communication - because you haven't put it out on the table. They are going to respond how they are going to respond. You can't control that. All you can do, like Platelet Gal said, is take the high road and put it out there, so at least they know know how you feel.

I used to have a lot of trouble with past partners with this issue - being honest about what I wanted and needed from them and communicating that to them. I had no trouble in my career and did it all the time as an attorney. But in my personal relationships? I stank. I couldn't bring myself to be honest about what I wanted. I finally went to a therapist who said, look, each time you have to do this, when you have to talk to your lover about something important, look at it as "practice" in improving your skill set.  That's all.  Don't think about the "consequences." Don't think about his feelings or how he might respond.  It's just practice to gain a new set of skills. So if you "botch" it somehow, you can just tell yourself you tried. And you'll do better next time.

And for some reason that tactic worked for me (probably because I'm sort of practical anyway in my day-to-day life and approach problem-solving in this way anyway). I just looked at it as practice. And each time I did it, it got easier. And not only that, the guy I was with at the time appreciated hearing it! So it had an unexpected positive outcome  anyway.

[RockRose]

barn babe - I think you've kind of misunderstood my whole premise here.

I don't have any trouble at all - being honest with people I love and care about.  Sometimes it's a little painful and prickly,  but that's what great relationships are all about.

On the other hand,  I wouldn't even entertain the thought of telling someone I thought was a jerk,  that I don't want to be friends with them.  Why bother?  They're a jerk,  I don't want to be friends,  don't call me I'll call you.  Not.

We all have circles of friends where you hold  some are extremely close and will trust them with your most intimate feelings,  and some are circles and circles out from there because they aren't trust worthy or they act selfish or hurtful very often.  They're on the outer loop,  they're fine in a group or at a happy hour,  not closer than that,  and they don't deserve an explanation from me as to why they aren't my best friend.  If they don't know,  I'm not telling them!!

So there are two things here - do you be honest with your dearly beloved (yes) or do you be honest with people you don't want to be friends with anymore (no).  

My opinon only.

[PlateletGal]

Barn Babe nailed it. You know so many people in society today try to avoid rifts and what they do in the end is create more even more rifts. You can't tip toe around problems and expect not to have the same problem pop up over and over again.

RockRose -- you mentioned people gossiping about me. The great thing is that since I took my power back, I really don't give a u-know-what. Why should I ? But to be honest with you, my friend has changed. I changed and then she started to change and now she's a happier person. There is no unfinished business between us. I wonder how many people are gossiping in your small town and especially when they can't be honest with one another ? What Barn Babe said about negative feelings building up inside like a cancer is so true.

[koukla29]

With friends like this, who needs enemies?  It's your choice how you decide to deal with this person, but obviously she is not a friend.  You can blow her off, just not take her phone calls, or you could confront her.  However, I doubt she will begin to understand the errors of her ways if she is in her 40s and still treats women this way.  She lacks social skills and self esteem - things no one can give her.  

She is what I call a toxic friend.  I think we all have had a friend like that in our lives.  I did confront a friend I had who sounds very similar to your friend.  I used a lot of "I" statements and explained how her behavior made me feel.  For example, "When you brought up that personal thing I told you, it made me feel very hurt because I told you that in confidence."  She could not handle being confronted and we never talked again.  Luckily, I didn't have to see her in my day to day, and mutual friends had moved away from her as well.  To this day, I feel good about confronting her because her behavior was steadily getting worse, and I didn't want her in my life anymore.  However, it didn't make a difference in her behavior as she continued to walk around with her head held high not seeing past her own nose.  

Personally, I think you should confront her because it will make you feel validated.  Good luck:)

[koukla29]

I think Rock Rose is trying to say pick your battles - and there is nothing wrong with that advice.

[barn babe]

RockRose keeps bringing up "gossip." You must live in a small town. I've NEVER lived in a small town, but even in my circle of friends, "gossip" just isn't on my radar as a reason not to discuss something. But I still have to side with Platelet Gal on this one - who cares who is saying what about who?

I like the analogy of the circles of friends moving outward. I'd say I have three close friends in my "inner" circle. I have a couple of women and one man who are in the next rung out; we mostly talk professionally, but as we continue to get together, personal stuff starts coming into the conversations, and I mean personal. As in we  were discussing our sex lives last week when I had lunch together with one of these women, and we ended up hugging after the lunch was over. I generally save "hugs" for the inner circle babes! :)

I think no matter which circle people are satelliting on around you, you can still be up front in  a way that doesn't leave you hanging emotionally. It's akin to using "age appropriate" language with a child. You have to tell them something, don't you? You just have to word it in a way that is understandable  to them while still telling the truth. But I think Rock Rose is still talking not about close friends that go south, which was the OP's concern, I guess. If  you meet someone and they treat you like a jerk (I can think of a couple of men in this scenario, frankly), yeah, you just forget about them. But in the case of a friendship that's gone on for a while? I don't think I could just let it hang and make an exit without saying something.

I have a male friend, he's been married for years, we've been platonic friends longer than he's been married, and he used to make these...shall we say "unkind" remarks towards me when we were hanging out. Backhanded comments, bringing up stuff I had shared with him about my life from the past, or whatever. Not all the time, but occasionally. I always loved having him as a friend, his professional advice, his outlook on the world, etc., but finally, after years had gone by and I had just let these offhanded remarks go, I just came out and said, you know, you have to stop with this stuff. It's hurtful to me, and it makes me feel like at some level you don't like women generally. (A lot of the remarks he made were kinda sexist. 'Nuff said.)  

And his response was, jesus, I'm so sorry, I had no idea. And I said they'd gone on for years, and he said, man, why didn't you say something sooner? And he  never did it again. It would have been better for me to call him on it IMMEDIATELY. Like after the first one. Instead, I just sat on it. But that's how I handled sh*t when I was younger - by NOT handling it.

I guess I can't relate to the "gossip" dynamic. I never worried about that with my friends.

[barn babe]

The asterisked word should have been b-a-b-e-s.  Didn't know that was disallowed.

Where is the edit function on this forum!

[Trialanderror]

I had a "friend" just like this throughout university. It evolved because we were stuck doing projects together and after a while the joint venture experience seemed like friendship. She was clingy and toxic at the same time. I gradually reduced the contact only to find her almost stalking me or coming up with phony midnight emergencies to get my attention. At some point I told her exactly how many times per year I would be willing to spend time with her less the toxic moments and she got used to this schedule...It was rare enough so she would not pull her toxic stuff on me and vice versa. It lasted for a while until she turned malevolent towards my best friend. Then I pulled the plug.
Listen, life is too short to be someone else`s dumpster. Prioritize yoor precious time and if there is a bit time left for toxic waste, sure, go for it but there is nothing wrong with getting people who just drain your energy out of your life. Friendship nees to be earned, through integrity in my opinion. Manipulative people are rarely the right material fro true friendship. Yes, break up.

[JohnnyV]

Oh my God, Mayflower, I'm in my late 30s and it's so funny, I just had the exact same experience with this guy who's been my buddy for 9 years. I totally feel for you. While everyone's perspective on it has been good, I think the best thing to do is at least to tell your frenemy that she's done something wrong. Explain to her how you feel, in a very objective, non-aggressive, straightforward way.

And then, to tell you the truth, I think you should be gracious to her when you find yourselves in the same place at the same time. Be polite. Or, as my wife always tells me, "be Jesus for a few hours 'til you can get somewhere private and scream." Some people put you through these hardships, and it's always tempting to say you're going to "cut off" the friendship. But I believe in a kind of karma. How do you like it if someone cuts you off, without a word, because of things you said and did without realizing you were being hurtful? Haven't we all been that "bad friend" at some point in our lives, usually when we're depressed or down or angry and don't have an outlet?

In my case, I'm a guy and my friend was a guy -- so it's a little different. Guys tend not to have this kind of friend drama stuff going on. But this friend of mine, I have no idea why he is a guy at all, he acts like such a woman when it comes to gossip and social drama. For years, he would constantly say biting and harsh things to me, and then he would mention painful, personal stuff at moments when he knew it would get me really upset. And then, when I reacted, he would make a big deal about my reaction, and manage to get everyone, including his wife and my wife and other people, talking about what I did (as a reaction), while managing to erase the fact that he'd been needling me. One night we were at an ethnic restaurant and he kept on making racist comments about the race of me and my wife; everyone but us at the table was white. Then the waitress, who was of the same race, would come by, and my friend would flirt with her and talk to her like she was a cheap bargirl; as soon as she walked away, he would make the same racist comments again. So finally, at the end of the night, when the waitress came back, I told her, "I think you should know, this guy you've been flirting with, has been making racist comments for the last two hours." My friend went ballistic and rallied everyone against me, and said I "made him and everyone uncomfortable." He got everyone thinking that I had created a problem out of nothing.... he's really good at playing head games like that.

But in my case, I sat him down and told him exactly what was going on. I said, you can't push my buttons like that for two hours, then get mad when I react. If you're not gonna stop saying these things simply by me saying I find them objectionable, then yeah, I'm gonna embarrass you.

We haven't really hung out since then, but we are cordial. We go to the same parties and socialize respectfully; we just don't hang out in small groups or alone. I think you can make a similar transition with your friend, but you should do it via an honest discussion of what's been happening. And don't make it about ending the friendship, just about cooling off your relationship and spending more time away from each other.

J

[socgirl]

hi there,

I once had a "toxic" friend.  She was my roomate in college.  She never berated me or anything like that.  However she was extremely clingy and needy.  She hated being by herself and couldn't even stand watching tv by herself.  I, on the otherhand, enjoy my privacy and my space.  i, of course, didn't mind spending time with her...we had alot of good times together...but i needed that alone time too...and going to my room to read or something like that was the perfect way for me to get away.  Things were somewhat tolerable with her, albeit a little annoying at times, until i started dating this guy.  It didn't matter who the guy was, she hated both guys i dated while i was living with her.  It turns out, she was extremely jealous of my bf.  It got to the point where she made stuff up about what he was doing, began telling me i wasn't allowed to have him in our apt, even though i paid rent as well.  her reason for not liking him was he just "made her uncomfortable,"  she never gave any specific background for this feeling she had or providied any evidence that he was up to no good.  Anyway, where i'm going with this is that i eventually had enough and i was very honest with her about it.  I told her there were some things i liked about her, but it just wasn't working...her being too needy, clingy, jealous, etc...i had enough.  So, i moved out and got my own apt.  we didn't speak to each other for about 6 months or so.  Then we became friends again and started hanging out again...we're not as close as we used to be, but we're still friends and in this case, honesty worked best for both of us.

[mayflowers]

thanks so much for answering my post.  both your insights are really great. At least with both of you, you told your friend off and things got better.  I've told this woman off and things don't get better, she acts like I never said anything.  It's like she doesn't get it!!!  I've realized that this woman is more than just jealous, she manipulative and out for herself.  I just want this person to move out of my life.  I don't know why she keeps bothering me since I have been limiting my communication with her.  We really don't have much in common when you think about it.  I don't think that she has a good character or any integrity.  What is the best way to "move her on her way"?  Is email good enough?  What should I say?  I realize this is immature of me to not know what to say, but I've seriously never had to do this before.  

[Miffy6]

Im goin thru this now too, i wrote a massive email bout it to her, she was shocked by it and now shes angry at me but im angry at her too for how long ive put up with being made to feel guilty and a bad friend.
So at the mo were not talking, and im fine with it, she obviously thinks she dosnt have a problem when she does and one day she will see it for herself.