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should I stay or leave my husband
by want2bhappy, May 09, 2007 12:00AM
Okay, my husband mentally abuses me. He criticizes me, degrades me, makes extremely crudes jokes at my expense, doesn't allow me to visit him at work or invited any of my coworkers to my house, doesn't help me clean our 3500 sq ft house at all even though I work full time and have a part time business (he has a full time job too), we don't have kids but I really want to have 2, he has grabbed my arm and bruised it twice (but not in about a year), we don't enjoy one anther at all, he won't go to church or read his bible any more, he yells at me, if i don't clean to his satisfaction he will take everything and throw it in the living room so i have to clean...
I am scared to leave because I have always wanted to be a wife and mom and feel like if I divorce him that I won't meet someone before I go into menopause and can no longer have children.
I am scared to leave because I have always wanted to be a wife and mom and feel like if I divorce him that I won't meet someone before I go into menopause and can no longer have children.
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It'll only get worse. Trust us on this. He's not going to "see the light" and come around with therapy, talking to the pastor, reading his bible, or anything else.
You don't need to be thinking about meeting anybody else or dating at the moment. Forget about that. You need to be thinking about how to get far away from this guy IMMEDIATELY. That should be your only concern.
IMO, whether or not he reads a bible won't change him or his behavior. Plenty of people who don't read the bible don't abuse their partners.
Good luck to you. Keep us posted on how it goes.
You're worried about being a good wife to him and having children, but he doesn't return the love and respect to you. A marriage is not supposed to be just one spouse doing all the giving and the other all the taking and being an abusive, controlling jerk on top of that. You do not want this man to be a father to your children--he will end up treating them as badly, if not worse, than he treats you.
If your heart's desire is to be a wife and mother, and in a happy, comfortable, loving relationship, don't give up on that. But not with this man. Get out while you can. It's highly unlikely he's going to change.
I try not to ever recommend divorce, but emotional and physical abuse almost never change for the better.
Do you still go to church and read the Bible? Just wondering--if so, I'd love to post back to you with more encouragement from a Christian perspective, if that's okay with you. I know from personal experience that being in an abusive relationship (especially an emotionally abusive relationship) can test your faith and self-worth.
I hope all works out for you, in both your near and distant future.
God bless.
I feel like I will be ostracized by my Christian "brothers and sisters' if I were to divorce.
In response to that other poster --- you know religion didn't help my friend when she was in an abusive relationship. They actually had the gall to tell her to stand by her man !!! It is very important to get help from a professional if you decide to get help.
Did you happen to watch Oprah's show yesterday ? They interviewed a woman who was in an abusive relationship. In fact, 25% of couples right now are in abusive relationships. I've been in one myself and got out. You deserve happiness too and have every right to get out of this relationship that is draining you emotionally and sucking you dry. You deserve to be happy and you can be !
They probably are not going to ostracize you. If they do, then find a new church. I went through this kind of church issue myself, but my family wasn't ostracized, just neglected. My mother got colon cancer, and while in the hospital after surgery, my alcoholic stepfather, who emotionally abused me up to that point, got physically abusive with me. My mom filed for a divorce from her hospital bed the next morning (long story I won't get into, b/c this is about you). Anyway, our church seemed to forget about us through the whole ordeal. I didn't find a new church until last summer, which was 3.5 yrs after my mom's divorce and a move from mid-west US to southern US. But the church I'm in now is wonderful and I know the people there would never do that. A good church is as good as having a good relationship--if both neglect or abuse you in your deepest moment of need, search for something better, and don't give up.
People can be deceiving before a marriage, and even a few yrs into the marriage. My ex-stepfather is a prime example. This is not your fault, I know I don't blame my mom for marrying him. She was deceived. Sounds like you were too. All the more reason to get out--a relationship on a foundation of deceit is usually unrepairable.
Before I have to go, I will say this (and I'll post the Bible verse later, I'm short on time now). A husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loves the church. A wife is to love and serve her husband as she serves Christ (but not before Christ, of course). But if a husband does not have that devout and respectful love for his wife, why should she return the love and service to him? Apparently, you put forth more effort of service and love for your husband than he deserves, and in return, how does he show his gratitude? He tells you it's not good enough, he belittles you, he isolates you, and doesn't do a thing to return a favor or serve you in any way. All he does is dominate and control and degrade. There is nothing you do to deserve this. That is why there would be good reason, IMO, for you to walk away. If he's this bad to you now, what makes you think he's going to give a darn if you go to counselling? Last time you went to counselling, he deceived you, and obviously the counsellors too if they told you to go ahead and get married.
I've got to go now, but I will post back later...promise. :-)
God bless.
Not all Christians will ostracize you, trust me. I thought the same thing about myself when I got pregnant 3 yrs. ago...but you know what? I never had that problem from true Christians, they were supportive, understanding and forgiving, as Christians should be. If your church does shun you for pursuing a divorce, find another church.
You have every right to give up and get out of this marriage. He has deceived you, has no respect for you. Do you think he'd be willing to die for you as Christ did for us? Probably not. Do you think he loves you and cares for you as he does for himself? Doesn't look like it. Is that how a loving, honorable, faithful husband should treat his wife? Absolutely.
You said you've heard many a story from the pulpit of women who stand by their man in the toughest times of marriage, and ultimately their marriage is saved. I've heard the stories too, and congrats to the couples who acheive that. It truly is honorable. So, if you *really* want to reconsider and try to save your marriage b/c divorce is strongly discouraged in the Bible (except for marital unfaithfulness), I'd go with the advice from 1 Corinthians 7:13-14. The *note* in my study Bible says, "The separated or divorced couple are to be reconciled. Clearly the idea is that marriage should not be permanently disrupted." If you'd feel more comfortable doing this, it's *your choice*.
But, like you said, God does not change people, and other people do not change people, a person has to change themselves. When willing to do that, only then can God and other people help them to change. Does your husband show *any* potential of changing? If not, divorce is justified IMO b/c he is not faithful to you (not in the sense of cheating on you, but rather, not faithful in holding up the *required values* of being a husband).
Plus, your heart's desire is to be a wife and mother. Don't deny yourself the happiness of this desire with a Godly man that will cherish you and a family. God cares about seeing your genuine desires fulfilled. If you divorce your husband, have faith that God will see you through and guide your life in the right direction if you let him. Luke 11:9 says, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened."
Getting away from your emotionally abusive husband and trusting God to guide your life and fulfill your heart's desires will do wonders for your self esteem. When you meet someone new, don't ever let him be mean to you. You said "Of course, he was MUCH nicer before we married. He was mean sometimes, but not like he is now." It's one thing to be upset, aggitated, or angry, but it's another thing to be mean.
Oh, I noticed that I said, "Is that how a loving, honorable, faithful husband should treat his wife? Absolutely." That sounded wrong...I meant that a good husband *does not* treat his wife the way yours treats you. I hope I didn't throw you off.
Anyway, I was finishing up about meanness. If someone loves you, whoever it may be, they have no excuse to be mean to you. If they are, let that be a red flag to you from now on. And don't make excuses for them. No one should be mean if they love you.
Stay strong in your faith and keep living your life. Don't let yourself be held back from any happiness.
If you are on a guilt trip, you were taught to do that. Some Christianist somewhere sometime took advantage of your emotional fragility to instill in you guilt, fear, and inability to recognize and utilize your rational thought processes and reasoning abilities.
Of course, Christianity itself is rooted in GUILT. The whole concept of “original sin” sets the stage for the mind-control of the susceptibly simple-minded, of which there appear to be untold numbers.
I don’t understand how anyone with an IQ over room temperature can so wholeheartedly throw reason and logic and fact overboard to embrace “teachings” and ideologies so firmly rooted in fantasy and wishful thinking.
And I'm not sure how believing in a fictionalized bearded patriarch will help you get out of the situation you are in. Picking up the telephone and calling a friend or a women's shelter makes more sense. But that's just me.
Whether or not anyone posting is a Christian shouldn't matter to anyone but Want2bhappy.
I was posting advice for Want2bhappy from a shared perspective of Christian belief and lifestyle. If that offends anyone other that Want2bhappy, too bad. But no one can say that I'm advising her to *stay* married. I gave Biblical reason for her to divorce if she wants to do that, and WITHOUT FEELING GUILTY ABOUT IT. She also has Biblical reason to stay married if she chooses. But a divorce is definitely justified, b/c her husband has been unfaithful to her by not faithfully holding up the *required values* of being a husband. And marital unfaithfulness is a Biblically justified reason to seek divorce.
Original Poster: I agree with AJH84, however I will say that it is quite possible that those in your church will not respond kindly should you choose divorce. I know because it happened to my mother. But if this happens, then I agree that you are in the wrong church!
You have done something wrong, but it's not like some kind of "sin". What you did, to get yourself in this mess, is marry a man that you knew full well was mean, and it was a mistake going in, but you wanted to do it because you didn't think another man would come along and you wanted to have kids, and so you gave up and picked a guy you knew was a bad choice.
There is no big shame in admitting a mistake and correcting it. Please don't have kids with this man - that's further down the road to misery.
Best wishes.
Anyway not to take from the poster
You are in an abusive relationship. You need to leave now. You need to focus on yourself and your future. When you are strong and independent you will meet your true life partner.
Some people may judge you. If they do so, according to Scripture they are sinning. You are only accountable to God and the conscience that He gave you as a guide.
There are other Christians who will come along and support you through this difficult time.
As for all you christain bashers, I feel sorry for you. I myself am not a religious person. I do not follow any "religion", because I feel like it is a bunch BS (for lack of better wording). Religion was "man made". More people have died over religious beliefs as long as we have existed. Still today, religious fanatics are terrorizing millions of people. However; being a christian does not mean that you are religious. Barn Babe, shame on you for refering to Jesus Christ as a bearded patriarch (or whatever you said). Do you not believ in God? Jesus? Salvation? I do know that whether one is "religious" or not your prayers will always be answered if you have faith in your heart that God is listening. I cannot even tell you how many times in my life I felt that I had no where else to turn but to God. As far as I am concerned there is only "one true church" and that is in your heart. So, if these church members ostracize you for defending and preserving your own life, then so be it. The Bible is book that is interpreted in many different ways (i.e. all the different religions)Who's to say that your church interprets it correctly or not. What I do know is, you need to leave, you have EVERY right.
Yes. It's not a coincidence that the rise of this fervent evangelicalism takes place in areas that, for the most part, are economically depressed and lack a sufficient sense of community. In other words, people lack hope, and when they lack hope and feel enormous despair, they often do desperate things like become fundamentalism "born-again" Xtians or, in the case of the Muslim countries, they become suicide bombers. Both of these phenomena arise from the same culture of poverty and despair.
Not all Xtians are from such embedded economic and social isolation, but you can't tease out the rise of Xtian fundamentalism from the economic and social catastrophes that have taken place in Amerika, including the loss of our manufacturing base and outsourcing of jobs and the concomitant lack of federal and state assistance to those in need, including cuts in public education. This history can be traced back to when Reagan became elected, and the timeline is extraordinary when you look at it. People who feel a sense of community loss, abandonment, no social support systems, and despair about their economic future are more vulnerable to seeking "comfort" with the mystical and magical thinking that underpins Xtianism. It's easier to believe that somehow you are "blessed" and that there is some sort of "apocalypse" that is preordained, instead of looking at the pragmatic and realistic scenario that our government has simply failed millions of people by allowing corporatism to run rampant without tighter regulatory controls and not providing funding for social programs that benefit those in need.
The red states, which vote Republican and have large evangelical populations, also have higher murder rates, teenage births, and divorce rates than the so-called blue states. The highest divorce rates are actually in the "Bible Belt" in the south. Massachusetts, probably one of the most liberal states in the nation, has the lowest divorce rate.
The goal of this sick hypocritical movement is a theocracy in the U.S. And that starts with the subjugation of women and the acceptance of homosexuality as a threat.
The OP might want to not only toss her husband overboard, but also her bible.
As a Christian, I posted my support for you and advice to you as a fellow believer, and it was not directed at anyone but you. I hope you found it helpful and encouraging. I had no intention of sparking a debate.
God bless you and give you peace to move on with your life and have your heart's desires fulfilled. You deserve it.
-AJH
Number of Divorces in 2005
Massachusetts - 14,308
Alabama - 22,076
Mississippi - 12,968
South Carolina - 12,423
Tennessee - 27,575
Michigan - 34,747
Here's just a few states. You can't really divide it by red and blue or north and south. You can find the numbers for all of the states on page 6 of http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_20.pdf.
I was looking at number of divorces instead of divorce rates. When it comes to divorce rates, yes, I have found that Massachusetts is on of the lowest states.
Number of Marriages in 2005
Massachusetts - 39,074
Georgia - 62,893
Tennessee - 62,320
Alabama - 43,308
Mississippi - 17,190
South Carolina - 35,351
Michigan - 61,496
Divorce Rates in 2004 (remember, divorces per total population)
Massachusetts - 2.2
Georgia - n.a. (3.9 in 2000)
Tennessee - 5.0
Alabama - 4.7
Mississippi - 4.5
South Carolina - 3.2
Michigan - 3.5
if not then that would be the only hope for this case. In this life, we always have to struggle or we would not be a strong person. I believe something would happen somehow.... God bless...
and remember,
"Those who doesn't have commited sin, would be the ones to throw the first stone...."
The true christians will not insult you or look down at you just because you left your husband...
What a load of ****. And unfortunately it is this type of BS advice that puts women in DANGER and keeps them in an UNHAPPY, ABUSIVE relationship for a longer period of time. Which obviously means, they suffer more. An abusive husband can kill his wife in an INSTANT.
This guy obviously had problems before he married this woman. Men who are abusive have self-esteem and control issues. That is why I suggest getting help from a professional who has experience in counseling victims of abuse.
The Church I now attend, as I have moved 3 hours from where I was is also great. they do not promote divorce, but they do promote what is beneficial to the persons involved.
If you would like to talk in private feel free to email me at ***@****
God Bless you and you know in your heart of hearts what needs to be done, if you asking advice from a wordly standppoint, then that is what you will get. Ask God, and trust your heart.
Wow. Unbelievable. Just...unbelievable.
I don't believe in the mythological god b.s. for the same reason that I don't believe in unicorns. Do you believe in unicorns, "cloey?" As I said to another poster around here somewhere, please tell us you don't believe in unicorns, otherwise we may have to slap a DSM-IV psychiatric diagnosis on you that might override even your densely delusional thinking about a bearded patriarch "rescuing" the original poster in this thread. There's no evidence that unicorns exist, is there? No. Show me the evidence that your god, a Muslim's god, or any other religious fanatic's "god" exists.
In other news, your hero Jerry Falwell is dead. As a doornail. Now I haven't given this a**hole much thought in years, but I must say I felt a sense of relief at knowing he bit the dust.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/hustler.html
I can summarize it for you: This is the landmark Supreme Court case that made parody protected speech in this country. Thanks to your guy Falwell, the legal world and the entertainment/communications industry were altered FOREVER.
What did this case do? Essentially, "cloey," it put to rest the notion that you can win damages against someone for hurting your feelings. When it concerns a public figure like Falwell, you can only prove libel if someone makes a false statement of fact that they know to be untrue, or recklessly disregards whether it's true, and only if it causes them harm.
Larry Flynt lost the first two rounds. Falwell asked for millions and was awarded $200,000. Nobody thought this case would be heard by the Supremes, but Flynt refused to settle and petitioned it to the S.Ct. They heard the case, and their decision was UNANIMOUS. All nine judges ruled in Larry Flynt's favor.
Thanks to Falwell, celebrities, politicians - anyone - is fair game, and the T.V. shows, comedy sketches, comedy routines, and other venues of entertainment reflect this and are a main staple of many programs.
So I guess one good thing did come out of Falwell's existence, eh "cloey?"
LMAO. Objective evidence, "cloey." I'm talking objective physical evidence. Don't insult us with comments about "miracles" of childbirth and death, when both of these are normal biological states.
You never answered my question, "cloey." Do you believe in unicorns? There's no evidence available that these mythical creatures exist, is there? Why is believing in a mythical authoritarian patriarch any different from believing that unicorns exist? There's no sound evidence for either one of these creatures actually being real, is there? I mean, I'm open to hearing it. If you say your god exists, then I'm interested in hearing about where the f*ck this clown resides. No person who believes in religious myth that I've ever interacted with has EVER been able to prove that their god exists. Never. Not once has anybody ever said, here's the objective physical proof that this guy exists. Oh, yeah, they twist themselves into knots talking about miracle this and prayer that and joy within themselves, and all the rest of the subjective claptrap that they try and make into their objective reality.
Why can't you folks just admit that you've been manipulated? That you have an emotional dependence on magical thinking? There's no need to be "ashamed" of this - just acknowledge it, get help, and get back into the reality-based world where the rest of us are living not being driven by fear, shame, and guilt.
In the end, my feeling about people like you, "cloey," is that you are emotionally disturbed, mentally deranged. In a sane society, you would be ignored, or treated perhaps, but never taken seriously. There actually is a coded psychiatric diagnosis for delusional thinking. Which pretty much sums up the psychological state of anybody who believes in mythological figures, including unicorns, the tooth fairy, and bearded old white guys with misogynistic and patriarchal attitudes.
but then, If physical evidence is what we should base it to then i guess God doesnt exist..
But there a thing called "FAITH" which absolutely means believing and trusting without seeing it. I believe in God and not on any religion made up by man.
god bless all people.. strong and weak.
I just want to say this to want2behappy....
I have never been for divorce. The bible even says that God hates it. I've been married for 24 years and have worked through a lot....... but while walking through the divorce with my friend I realized something very important and that is.....GOD LOVES HIS CHILDREN no matter what mistakes we've made, are making or will make. Jesus died in our place for our past, present and future sins. Yes, divorce is a sin, according to the bible, because it is breaking an oath to God. BUT my point is this....... because we are God's children, I believe with all my heart that he does not intend for us to stay in an abusive relationship. He is a father...our Heavenly Father. No earthly father who truly loves his kids would advise a child to stay in an abusive relationship...nor would your Heavenly Father! He WANTS you to be SAFE, believe me.
My thoughts are that you separate from this man and ask him to get godly counsel....separation can sometimes get a person's attention before an actual divorce. I've seen it happen several times. If divorce does come down the road, you will be able to say you did all you could do to save the marriage. While you are on your own get all the support you can through prayer, a good/supportive bible believing church ... Ask the pastor if he knows of a older and wise woman who can walk through this adversity with you. Read the Psalms for comfort. Psalm 91 is great...
Over time you will know what to do....God will give you peace. My bestfriend is surviving on her own because she had no options and you will do fine if you have to do the same.
Everything is going to be okay. BIG HUGS!!!!!!!!!
"Selective literalism" in action, folks. Check this gem out:
"Yes, divorce is a sin, according to the bible, because it is breaking an oath to God. BUT my point is this....... because we are God's children, I believe with all my heart that he does not intend for us to stay in an abusive relationship."
Hilarious. This poster has "interpreted" a passage of this mythology to fit her worldview. The authoritarian in the flowing robes says "divorce is a sin," but, it's okay for "her" or anybody she "advises" not to follow this particular "passage."
That's called cherrypicking, "re-interpreting," distorting, or simply ignoring what they choose to overlook in order to fit their own subjective viewpoint.
You either conform to the "tenets" of your book of fantasy completely, or we can all agree that it's a wash. You can't have it both ways, people.
Hypocrisy doesn't begin to describe you folks. Really.
This place is crawling with magical thinkers.
A few sentences later, Singforjoy says, "My thoughts are that you separate from this man and ask him to get godly counsel....separation can sometimes get a person's attention before an actual divorce. I've seen it happen several times. If divorce does come down the road, you will be able to say you did all you could do to save the marriage."
HOWEVER, nowhere in the Bible does it say that divorce is a sin. It is just not recommended. Malachi 2:16 says that God hates divorce. God does not tell us to sin. Hating the action is not the same as it being a sin.
Singforjoy has not made "selective literalism." Perhaps there was just a misunderstanding.
You then tell Christians, "You either conform to the 'tenets' of your book of fantasy completely, or we can all agree that it's a wash. You can't have it both ways, people."
If you go back through this post and re-read my comments to Want2bhappy (#10, #11, and #15), you'll see that I've pointed out the "tenets" of the Holy Bible and divorce. Want2bhappy has Biblical justification for divorce, but also to remain in the marriage if she wishes. At this point, it is entirely up to Want2bhappy.
"For I know the plans I have for you says the Lord, plans for good and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11
"Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich told Liberty University’s graduating class Saturday to honor the spirit of school founder Jerry Falwell by confronting “the growing culture of radical secularism” with Christian ideals.
"A growing culture of radical secularism declares that the nation cannot profess the truths on which it was founded,” Gingrich said. “We are told that our PUBLIC schools can no longer invoke the creator, nor proclaim the natural law nor profess the God-given quality of human rights.
“In hostility to American history, the radical secularists insist that religious belief is inherently divisive and that public debate can only proceed on secular terms,” he said.
Gingrich also decried what he called judges’ overreaching efforts to separate church and state.
“Too often, the courts have been biased against religious believers. This anti-religious bias must end,” he said.
And this is just f*cking scary:
Gingrich said after his speech that Falwell’s death would not slow the Christian right’s efforts.
“Anybody on the left who hopes that when people like Reverend Falwell disappear that the opportunity to convert ALL of America has gone with them fundamentally misunderstands why institutions like this were created,” Gingrich said."
“All” of America. Just like a freaking cult.
Thanks for the recommendation - I've always enjoyed fiction.
Anyway, want2behappy, I am in a 8 year marriage (ten yr relationship) with a man who has mentally and emotionally abused me. I am just, within the past couple of years, realizing it isn't fair to me or my children to stay in this relationship and I am separating from him. He also criticizes me, puts me down, makes crude jokes at my expense...everything you are describing. It's possible for a man to change, but it takes something drastic to open his eyes. Counseling never worked for us because he felt like he was being attacked. I too felt like maybe there was something I had done wrong for the longest time. That is his passive-aggressive beahvior making you feel that way. "Crazy-making", if you will. Google passive-aggressive and read up on it. You'll be amazed how much it fits your husband to a "T".
My advice to you is, tell him you want a trial separation and move out. If he really loves you, he will see that you are serious and he will change his ways. If not, then you need to go on with your life and find someone who respects you for who you are.
Good Luck hon,
wildflower77