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Nongonaccal Urethritis Transmission

Hello

I'm hoping someone can give me some reasonable advice.  About 6 months back I had oral sex without a condom and then vaginal sex with a condom with a woman I didn't know very well.  Two days later I had unprotected sex with my wife.  3 days after that I began noticing symptoms such as a thin clear discharge (it leaves yellowish stains in my underwear), I have a frequent urge to urinate, occasionally I get a sharp shooting pain in my urethra, and some times the tip of my penis is sensitive.  I never experienced the thick discharge or the burning sensation while urinating.  I went to see my doctor he had gave me Ceftriaxone Sodium (250 mg) shot and then a Doxycyline Hyclate (100 mg) 10 day prescription.  He dignosed me with Urethritis.  He took a urine sample and I was negative for Gonorrhea and Chlamydia.  He also examined my urine for increased white blood cells but that was negative also.  I took the prescription and didn't have sex with my wife for 7 days and finished the prescription.  

6 months later I still have the symptoms described above, but I've read a lot on this form that many times the syptoms stay with people.  My questions are:

1.  Is there a good possibility my wife has NGU due to me having sex with her 2 days after I was exposed and has it just been passed back to me?  When I had sex with her two days after my encounter with another woman I don't remember any symptoms except frequent urge to unrinate.  

2.  Is two days a long enough gestation period to where I could have passed it to my wife?  

I've been worried sick for months now due to the fact that I may have passed it on to her.  We have a 2 year old child and I'm sure if I suggested she get checked, it would open up a can or worms and much suspicion, and I know she will probably leave me.  I know anxiety also causes symptoms to remain, but I'm really worried that NGU is present in both of us, and the mental anguish of not knowing and potentially hurting my wife has driven me to the point  of contemplating suicide.  

I know this whole story does not look good and I know the answer is that I probably passed it onto my wife.  Can any health professionals comment on this regarding the two questions above?  

Thank you
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Avatar universal
Same exact situation here, wife , kids, the whole boat... going on 4 years next month... it is ruining my life. Went to a infectious disease doc a few weeks ago. She was pretty sure it was mycoplasma, but tests are negative... not exactly sure what to do about this now. I really hope those other guys come back on here with their success stories!!!
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Avatar universal
Hi I'm in the same situation did you ever find a cure
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Avatar universal
There is too much coincidence for this not to have occured due to my exposure.  Although I know Jessie means well, I can't believe these symptoms just appears out of no where and that they are persistent for months on end, even after antibiotic treatments.  
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Avatar universal
I'm still around.  I really don't have much to add though.  I go to see a urologist next week who can hopefully help me some.  I'm not sure what to ask him or how to approach the visit though.

I recently went a week with no symptoms, then this morning the discharge was back.

JJ2010:  You state: I will close with this, you probably did not developed that NGU from your exposure risk you initially asked about; noticible symptoms are probably coincidental.

How can discharge be coincidental?  Can you elaborate a bit?  Thanks.
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Avatar universal
Hey bigwreck, you still around?  I sent you a message to your inbox
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Avatar universal
I really do appreciate your comments.  It does help to discuss this issue.  

I do hope that you are wrong about the moderators stepping in, because this forum is for information purposes and as you said, there are many people out there still searching for answers.  The way I found MedHelp was through google searches on my condition, and I've learned a lot by reading the archives.  This thread brought bigwreck and I together to discuss many possibilities and It would be unfortunate if this thread is deleted.  
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1318465 tn?1614894302
Hello again NGU_FOOL,

You don't have to apologize for bing a "pill" whatever that means, but it sounds negative.  * laughs * I don't think you're a "pill" at all.  Its okay we are here to help, well as much as we can.  However, it is getting nitty bitty gritty with details here, any further post made by me will be more of on my opinion, and you must remember I am not a physican, only someone who has been there (minus the wife and kids ---I understand your risk involved in all this).   Also, I'm afraid the moderators are going to step in any moment and cut this thread out.  I hope they don't  because, as you've seen many men suffer from this with no real known answers... and that was the purpose of second response to you with the article written by Dr. HHH himself.  I was hoping that though the ironic title of the article, "A few Answers; but mostly Questions", that it would shine some light on your conditions --yes including your wife.    I did not read the thread you've sent because the likely hood is probably that I have before.  

Heres what I think, just know that I've never given this advice out before as your case is particular.   The reason why I cured in a month from my non-chlamydia NGU, is because I abstained from sex altogether for 3 months.   I always use condoms.   I will bet you a nickel that if I have unprotected sex my symptoms will come back.   The difference between you and I, is yes you are married and no doubt are --in a continuum, having unprotected sex with your wife --exposing your inflammed urethra over and over not giving it "rest".     I know getting micoplasma for oral sex is a low risk as well.
Re-read the article link I sent that was titled, "A few Answers; but mostly Questions."

I will close with this, you probably did not developed that NGU from your exposure risk you initially asked about; noticible symptoms are probably coincidental.      Hey man, things happen for a Reason, I know that for sure.
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Avatar universal
JessyJames and bigwreck

This is the reason I cannot accept that everything is fine with me.  The link details the struggle of a few men who are having the same issues as myself.  The thread is very long if you care to read it, but the gist of it is this:  a few men struggled for years with symptoms similar to what I have, and they went to countless doctors who told them they were fine.  Finally they had a PCR done that determined they were positive for a Mycoplasma infection.  They did not respond to treatment.  In addition, the thread is so long because countless other men chimed in saying they have the same issues and the doctors have told them the same things, but still they are having issues.  This thread spans over 2 years!!!!!  Mycoplasma infections seems to be our worst nightmare come true.

http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/showthread.php?s=977a2fd2154aae1b03262f18950583e8&t=32050
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Avatar universal
Hi Jessy,

Thank you for the answers and the link.  I do believe a lot of what you're saying in regards to the mental aspect, but I do have symptoms that remain such as discharge and frequent urge to urinate.  These are unmistakable physical sypmtoms that I cannot get to go away.  The temporarily resolved with the start of each new antibiotic but then returned.  I will try to remain calm but as I said above, there is a lot at stake for me.  I want to get well and I want my family to stay together.  This is very difficult and emotionally draining on me.  Sorry to be such a pill
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Avatar universal
Jesse, i apologize if I came across that way.  I have studied and interviewed over 200 Gulf war soldiers/spouses and Lymes patients/spouses.  Overwhelmingly I have found the spouses infected suffering the same symptoms, with Hysterectomies and ovarian cysts being the norm.  Symptoms are exactly alike across the board.  When tested, all above tested pos for Mycoplasma Fermentans-Incognitus and Borrelia Burgdeferi which are blood borne pathogens.  Just too coincedental for me considering the birth defects that BOTH Lymes and GWI patients suffer.  There is almost NO research being done w/ only soldiers being recognized. Their spouses and Lymes patients /spouses are receiving NO help at ALL.  It's a tragedy.

I asked your "expert" status to find out what type of researcher you were and/or clinician.  most here feel if they get an opinion that has been given by an "expert" it is by an ACTUAL expert, not a voted one.  No offense.
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1318465 tn?1614894302
1.  1 gram single doze.  Treated same day, and I ate something later (I went to Mc Donalds)
2.  Yes.
3.  No.   In fact I become abstinent.   I even stopped masturbating for 3 months  --it was a spiritual growth for me.

ewford: My clinical training.... if that really matters to you: I am a certified phlebotomist, was in medical school, now I am on a leave of absence.   I have a degree in biomedical Engineering, but none of this matters.    Most of what I know is based on my own personal experiences.  But you seem to be talking about political propaganda and governmental complex I am uninterested in, and will get us know where on these forms.  I am here to help people on what are the next medical steps to take to get better; not debate on weather something exist or not or if there is a governmental conspiracy or not.  

Doctors say, "you have nothing to worry about" because, really mostly they don't, the experts are not blind to it, in fact they are looking at it from a long term perspective, in that in the end the condition should resolve itself.    True STD's MAY cause still births...  but really really, the main cause stillbirths and deformed children  is not NUG's and STDs, its genetic factors, environmental factors, fetal alcohol syndrome... drugs, mom being overweight etc.  The research is there, one is not expected to know everything as many doctors out there don't know everything; however lets not discredit them.  


NGU_Fool:
I don't know what else to say to you to help you, you appear to be doing the correct things.  In time you should get better.  

Here's a entree I wrote that I found has helped people:
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/221430/psychological-aspect-of-STDs-on-these-forums?personal_page_id=1411239  ;
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Avatar universal
I misstated that I went 14 months before symptoms.  I had a sore penis, drip, gonad pain, clear discharge.  Those were the FIRST symptoms.  The others came along and they are all Syphillis symptoms, but my 3 RPR tests were neg as were all my tests during that period.  But Lyme/Mycoplasma symptoms are what I have, and I tested pos for them from the "sites" you call missleading.  You can't tell me my symptoms are in my head.  That is exactly the reason the Dr's are missdiagnosing this.  

  Eight diff doctors wanted to give me 8 diff meds for symptoms when in reality this is an intracellular bacterial chronic infection.  
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Avatar universal
Please tell me your clinical expertise and training.  More often than not, I have seen some experts here say "you have nothing to worry about" and in reality they have ALOT to worry about.  Is it because the "experts" are complicit or is it they are blind to all of the people that have unexplained medical issues that are sexually related.  If these illnesses are causing stillbirths and deformed children, you have to demand more research.  I don't believe a darn thing the IDSA has to say or the CDC in regards to this.  How can you get published papers and peer reviewed papers when the govt denies the existance of something.  And yet the evidence is there. The govt denied AIDS as well, look where THAT got us.
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Avatar universal
I believe the CDC does have information on M. Genitalium.  I think I saw something that was dated 2011, so there is current information.  They do know it's a problem, but the issue is lack of reliable and accessible diagnostics.  As you know, it's very difficult to detect MG and must be done via PCR.  Still they are reluctant to classify this as a known STD because.....you guessed it, more studies need to be done.  

Like I said before, from doing your own research you can see this is a major problem and epidemic.  However, the government is slow to put themselves out there and actually state this is a known STD and that doctors should check for it.  Unfortunately the private sector works a lot more quickly than government.  Part of the issue seems to be a lack of funding for large scale studies on the subject.  
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Avatar universal
Here is a quote

"Many of the symptoms are similar to AIDS because they are both immuno- suppressive and attack the immune system. Most victims will have half to two-thirds of these symptoms (some more severe than others). Wives married to GWI victims are likely to get the disease via sex and other close contact, and their symptoms can even include cervical cancer, ovarian cysts, ovarian tumors, endometriosis, painful intercourse, chlamydia, and herpes. About 90% of the wives of veterans who are sick with GWI are now complaining of these symptoms."

And

  "99.9% of the medical doctors in America can't recognize GWI, don't believe it even exists because of the government and medical establishment saying it doesn't exist, would have no idea how to test for it and even less idea how to treat it. Most alternate medical practitioners are in the same boat although many of them would try detoxification and immune system therapy which would be helpful. These are answers (if the disease is not too far advanced) both in the tradition (mainline) medical area and in the alternate" medicine field which will be discussed in Section VI below. If you or a family member reading this report are discouraged at this point, turn to Section VI on Methods of Treatment before continuing].

  ^^Sounds like thats sexually transmitted to me^^.  Bumps on my penis, sore skin, tingling in groin, painful urination.  Leading to an autoimmune illness just like Syphillis. But your RPR test will be NEG Sure sounds like a STD to me.  This is something new, and I think it's been engineered to be more virulent.  And if you think the Gov't would never do such a thing, go back and look at the Tuskeegee Experiment.

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Avatar universal
Right.....and my penis pain is not related with a tingle in my scrotum.  Once again you are overlooking that.  there were over 23 KNOWN genital affecting agents used as bioagents during the gulf wars and soldiers are experiencing these issues now.  Go look and see who many posts are like mine that you and others have dissmissed.   Lymes disease/ Mycoplasma Fermentans Incog and M. Genitalium DO EXIST.  You just have not done enough research to be aware of it.  Tell me why the CDC and IDSA have no information about them avail.  If you were hiding something, you would certainly not post it.

  Please tell me why as well Govt biowarfare labs are studying ovarian cancer.  Why are Gulf War spouses and Lyme spouses experiencing Hysterectomies.  This IS an STD.
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Avatar universal
Thank you for your response.  I have a few questions for you since you brought up your own bout of NGU, if you dont' mind.

1.  what did your azithro treatment consist of?  Dosage and length of treatment?  
2.  I'm a middle aged guy, and I've never been prone to NGU, and I've had a lot of sex, protected and unprotected.  Are you suggesting I may be continuing to have symptoms because I'm predisposed to genital bacterial infections?
3.  during the month it took to resolve your issue, did you have unprotected sex with anyone?

Yes, I'm still having symptoms, that was the point of this post.  It's been more than a couple weeks that you suggested and multiple antibiotic treatments with no resolution.  There has only been slight improvement when I began Azithro, and then a few days later symptoms returned.  With Moxiflox my symptoms cleared up, only to return a few days later.  So you can see why this post continues at length, there hasn't been a resolution of symptoms for myself or bigwreck, and now ewford has come forward to say he's experiencing the same symptoms.  Although his symptoms are far beyond anything I have, he is still experiencing them after over 14 months and mutiple treatments.  

Yes, this has been very frustrating and I'm sure this post is beginning to generate a lot of attention.  I'm happy for the people who have been cured of this terrible infection, but as for myself and bigwreck, this has been nothing but a living hell for us.  If you dont' have a wife or kids, you can go on with life and get treatment without having to worry about anyone else, but if you're like myself and bigwreck, you worry constantly because there are other people involved and the thought of losing everything you hold dear to yourself (family, wife) is devastating and depressing.  I do appreciate you sharing your experience with us and the comments you have provided, but the fact remains that we still have symptoms and we are still searching for a way to get better.  
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1318465 tn?1614894302
Hello again, guys.

ewford: your symptoms for 14 months are NOT STD related, "Headaches, stiff neck, eye pain, stabbing pains occasionally in my stomach, penis pain, bowel issues, joint and muscle pain, fatigue."

NGU fool:   as far as what Dr. Handsfield has said, "NGU is cause either by chlamydia or MG.  When unprotected oral is recieved, typically chlamydia isn't the cause but other bacteria, noteably MG, is the cause, but some times the cause is never known".    

Just to clarify, yah the likely cause of NGU in about 30% of cases is chlamydia, and then in another 30% of cases its caused by a bunch of other bacteria ... so then Dotcors will treat it.  With best hopes it goes away.   It took 1 month for my NGU to go away after treatment (Azithro), and read up extensively as you guys have.   Then I found out I was more prone to gential bacterial infections so I stopped having sex.   And I don't like to have unprotected sex as it irriates my urethra like what happend a couple weeks ago.  I expalin it to my girlfriend that when I have unprotected sex it almost always irriates my urethra.  I did experience a couple symtpoms like tinggling, urinating alot, slight discharge after urinating recently after unprotected sex; But now I am completely fine.   This is why you need to give it a couple weeks so see if this mysterious disease cures itself.  If not continue to work with a urologist on it.    

Are you still having symptoms?  I sure hope not.    Best of luck with this, I know its kinda frustrating not knowing but the your main goal should be to get better physically and physcologically.  Again, you did NOT infect your wife and you're going to be fine.  

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Avatar universal
You have presented quite a case and a lot of information.  I do not dispute any of it and it sounds like you may be onto something here.  

One thing to keep in mind, is the "experts" or doctors here cannot say very much on the subject.  There hasn't been substantial research for them to go on record with some of this stuff.  I've read a lot of research, but everything I read concludes in the same manner, stating that "more research needs to be done on the subject."  Thus far, nothing has been issues by the CDC or any other large health organization that classifies Mycoplasma Genitalium as an STD or something that should be screened for.  However, based on the all the reading I have done, this seems to be a very dangerous bacteria that can cuase adverse health problems and has the ability to spread very rapidly and easily (via unprotected oral, vaginal, and anal sex, and some times through contact with sex toys or hands that have been touching vaginal fluids).    If you have read through a lot of the posts on this web site regarding NGU, many men on here have contracted NGU from sex workers, massage parlors, or escorts.  That is very telling, that this disease is very easy to spread and is rampant throughout the sex worker community.    

You're correct, Biofilms do exist.  This can be seen with bacteria in the mouth.  Some bacteria of the mouth are immune to mouth wash, unless their bio film is broken either through scraping, brushing, or flossing.  This is a known fact.  

Azithromicyne seems to have a high failure rate against MG, as found in studies.  However, Moxifloxacin seems to have better results against fighting this bacteria, but this is a very potent antibiotic and can have severe side effects that can cause lasting damage to the body.  I will say this about Moxifloxacin - It gave me instant relief with in hrs, all symptoms were gone, but by the end of day two, symptoms began returning.  Not all at once, but one at a time, here and there.  I do not believe the course of Moxifloxacin will work since symptoms are returning.  I'm not sure what else to do after this.  

I have not read any research on the complications that gulf war vets are having with mycoplasma, but I may begin looking into it.  I have been focusing on M genitalium as an STI and have only searched for research on that subject.  Thank you for providing more information, I will look into it.  

You said you have gone 14 months with these symptoms?  Have you had any successful treatment or are you still struggling with this?  How were you tested?  
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Avatar universal
oh, btw, these Mycoplasmas can "flip themselves inside out" and protect themseleves with a biofilm (research that) hence the high failure rate w/ Azithromiacin.  These types of drugs (Zithromax, Minycycline, etc) disrupt the ability of the bacteria to replicate. The mycos are very slow growing and they do not divide exponentionally (explosive growth) like standard bacteria sometimes dividing every 4-7 days or longer.. (one reason they are hard to culture)  The Mycos protect themselves from large dosing of ABX with this biofilm hence the higher failure rate.  Experts here can check my facts.  Biofilms DO exist.  That is one reason for chronic persistant illnesses.
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Avatar universal
Here's a quote from a military testing site:  

The Gulf War Mycoplasma Study showed that nearly all the Gulf War veterans who tested positive for mycoplasma infections were positive for Mycoplasma fermentans. Mycoplasma genitalium was also found and a very small percentage tested positive for Mycoplasma pneumoniae.

We recommend that all Gulf War veterans also get tested for: uranium poisoning from exposure to depleted uranium, antibodies to experimental vaccine adjuvants such as squalene, and if there has been any exposure to organophosphate pesticides or sarin nerve gas get tested for the blood enzyme, paraoxonase.

In addition, Veterans have experience long term side effects from prescription drugs such as:
pyridostigmine bromide, given to troops to protect against nerve gas, and the antimalarial drug Lariam (mefloquine).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

These are from leading researchers, not someone trying to "suck you in".  Your symptoms will get worse if untreated and you need to keep an eye on your spouses/childrens health for any unexplained issues that dont seem to go away.
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Avatar universal
  BTW, all my previous posts on this subject have been removed for some strange reason.  I wonder how long it will be before this "dissapears".
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Avatar universal
I have the exact same situation as both of you.  I have posted many times. Dr Hansfield dissmissed my concerns.  I went 14 months being told over and over that there was nothing wrong, until I started getting weird symptoms all over my body.   Headaches, stiff neck, eye pain, stabbing pains occasionally in my stomach, penis pain, bowel issues, joint and muscle pain, fatigue.  hansfeld and all the "experts" said it was not a STD issue.

  Well, in research and proper testing, I found I had contracted Mycoplasma Fermentens Incognitus, Borrelia Burgdorfer bacteria (Lymes) and Mycoplasma Genitalia.  I contaracted these after finding out that most Gulf War vets and Lymes patients have these same co-infections along with Bartonella, Babesia, Erlichia, etc.  Soldiers have been infected either by vaccines or bioagents in the gulf region and are passing these on to their spouses/girlfriends.  The girlfriends are passing it on to other males/ repeat the cycle over and over.  I'm not a gulf war vet, or a soldier.  Understand?

  This is the next STD that the "normal" doctors have never seen.  There is no Labcorp test or Quest.  There are several labs around the country that are able to culture this bacteria by propogating it.  Mycoplasmas are NOTORIOUSLY slow growing.  Plus, your body will not make antibodies to these bacteria/fungal infections.  They are INTRACELLULAR bacterial/fungal infections.  The labs have to use a special flourescent staining technique and DNA sequencing to find out EXACTLY what types of  Myco/Mico plasmas are involved.

  Your best bet is to NOT get answers here from some here that have never seen this type of disease.   I will give you an example:

  I spoke to a woman whose husband was a MP.  He "came down with" a giloblastoma.  His best friend (an MP) contracted the EXACT SAME TYPE of giloblastoma.  They both died fro this brain cancer.  Now both wives have medical issues including Mycoplasma Fermentans Incognitus, Myco Genitalium and Lymes.  And the doctors are telling you this is is not a STD.  That is unconceiveable.  They are finding the bacterias in all human body fluids, including semen and vag fluids.  Why would this not be?  

  Any expert want to refute this?  Yes, the Mycoplasma Fermentans bacteria is in its true form innocuous, but not the M Fermentans Incognitus.  I'll stack my rescources and literature against the experts here.  No goverment testing/research is being done here because some very damaging info might come out for some group or country or agency.
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Avatar universal
Thank you for passing this on, I believe I did read this thread.  It's kind of confussing to me because while Dr Hansfield says that, it's really strange that in other threads I've read, he does say that NGU is cause either by chlamydia or MG.  When unprotected oral is recieved, typically chlamydia isn't the cause but other bacteria, noteably MG, is the cause, but some times the cause is never known.  He does seem to contradict himself at times when he says it's probably harmless, but then other times he says both partners need to be treated to ensure no chance of re-infection.  This doesn't make a lot of sense to me that he would state that MG is normal in the genital tract and could be harmless, but then states that both partners need treatment just to be sure.  I've been looking for research and things that have been published within the last year because older studies indicate that a strong link between health issues and MG hasn't been made.  Current studies suggest MG is indeed harmful to male and female health although the exact extent is unknown.  In addition, Azithro has a high failure rate (25%-30%) against MG, which may explain recurrent NGU.  That's just my 2 cents.  

I agree with you that anxiety is high and I should look into something for that.  Thanks for your reply and comments.  
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