HIV testing

[morestup]

Hi Doc, I was on your threads on two occasions asking about the possibilities of acquiring HIV whilst having Unproctected Oral Sex.  Your answer both times was Nada.  Just to remind you I still have a persistent red scrotum and a slightly red penis which itches from time to time and my glands around the pelvic region are still swollen.

I had an ELISA test in Spain 7 weeks after possible exposure (with high risk persons).  It came back negative.  So this relieved me somewhat but not entirely.

On looking at other threads you claim that any tests after the 6 week mark (since exposure is approx 95-99% accurate).  On other threads you have asked to get a test at three months.  

My wife is now pregnant by IVF treatment (after 8 years of trying) and now I find that if I have acquired any STD (all which are negative) or HIV, then how could I live with the thought that I may have passed on HIV to her and my twins.  This weekend she complained about two blisters on her tongue, this after receiving a negative result earlier on the week for HIV.  So it sent me into yet another panic attack and got myself tested again, now at 9 weeks. I will get results by Thursday.

My questions:

1. What would be the reason that a person to seroconvert late, say after 7 weeks?
2. I have just gone for another test today (at 9 weeks since possible exposure), would you call this second test conclusive?  Or would you still suggest 3months and 6months like the official guidelines inform?  
3. Are the Elisa tests in Spain reliable?
4. When you say that no symtoms are reliable, then in your own opinion and personal experience, what have you seen to be symptoms of HIV?

I'd like to take this opportunity in thanking you for the great service on helping individuals at a time when they are extremely alone, confused and scared and for all the information and links sourced from here have also been excellent.

Well Done!

Now lets hope I come out negative on Thursday.

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

1) The reasons for late seroconversion are not known.  It is rare.  Based on the risks you cite, it doesn't apply to you.

2) I consider the tests you already have had to be conclusive in your case.  But feel free to be tested as frequently and as far in the future as you like.  It's your decision, and you do not appear to be particularly interested in an objective assessment of need.

3) I have no knowledge about HIV testing in Spain.  But it is a medically sophisticated country, at least in the major cities, and I have no reason to doubt the test performance there.

4) Too complex a question. The potential symptoms of HIV can fill many pages.  You undoubtedly have seen them listed in various places, including many websites.  The issue isn't whether HIV can cause symptoms, but the specificicty of those symptoms.  With very few exceptions, every symptom caused by HIV is caused much more frequently by other conditions.

Your risk of having HIV doesn't strike me as any higher now than before.  You are being irrationally obsessive about this. This will be my only reply; and if you post any more new threads on this issue, they will be deleted without response.

HHH, MD

[FULL OF REGRETS]

The Doctor isn't going to try and explain ARS Symptoms to you, for they vary from person to person. I can tell you that if in fact he is concerned that your symptoms are ARS associated with HIV, he will certainly tell you.

You test results in Spain at 7 weeks are conclusive, although the DR. is going to tell you that this was a little to no-risk exposure and you probably didn't need testing anyway and that there is no need for another test.

I can tell you that Red scrotum and these other symptoms you mentioned are in no way related to HIV. Symptoms for HIV will usually appear in the 2-4 week post-exposure anyway.

Be happy with your new pregnant wife & relax. You are fine and just feeling guilt from exposing yourself to an otherwise harmless situation. Enjoy the holidays.

[morestup]

Thanks Doc.  Thanks fullofregrets.

I shall take the 9 week test as conclusive.  And from the Docs reactions, I can now sleep better since he takes the 7 week test as conclusive.

Just for your info, the red and uncomfortable scrotum and penis have been since almost 1st week of exposure.

I will keep you updated on this thread on Thursday.

All the best and yes Happy Holidays

Morestup-id

[strangeworld]

Yes sir,
I am sure it will be negative, keep us posted.

All the best

[morestup]

The only problem is I didnt give more details to the Doc.

I have been having nausea on and off, and today have diarrhea for the second time and although i did not vomit, it felt as if i was going to. And further at times i think i am going to black out, feel weak.

My stomach is also bloated and tight.

I see myself in the mirror and look fine, but keep searching for traces of rashes, which do seem to come and go.

I am hoping that the 9 week test is negative but i will probably test again at 3 months (in another 4 weeks) as no one has indicated why i am experiencing such symptoms and why low risk and high risk has anything to do with it. because as Strangeworld agrees why is 6 week conclusive for low risk when it could also be high risk

in which case i feel i was since i went back to get an answer from the two women at the party i attended and the owner did not give me a direct answer. this is why i am worrying so much.

And then when the Doc gets upset at questions which you feel is so important cos its your life or death, you cannot understand why he could not be compassionate and get a more direct answer. so if i ask him again, if both the women that i had oral sex with were both infected with HIV, would you still say 6 weeks is conclusive?

Doc, please say something?

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

You misunderstand the main purpose of the STD Forum.  It is a place where people can get factual answers; and where those answers will provide useful information to all forum users.  It is not to provide individual medical advice or reassurance.  Only your own provider can do that.  I bow to nobody in my compassion, but psychological support is not the purpose of the forum and I do not accept any implied responsibility in that arena.

The facts about your virtual zero risk for HIV (based on the exposures you describe) are as stated in my original reply; if you turn out to be HIV positive, it will because you acquired somewhere else, not during the oral exposures you describe.  Your additional symptoms do not suggest HIV any more than the first ones you mentioned.

This is my last reply.

HHH, MD

[strangeworld]

Your proved today that there still good human being alive like yourself who are indeed compassionate.

I use to think this world has stopped making good hearted people.

God bless you HHH

[strangeworld]

My stomach is also bloated, tight and makes lot noises too and also, i also look for rashes and everything what you do, but i try to divert my mind of it because its not worth it my dear freind. Keep in touch. and relax

[morestup]

Thanks for reply both of you again.

Strangeworld, I wonder what got into me as to why i had this risky behaviour encounter over 9 weeks ago with these two women and put myself at risk to such a potential and dangerous virus and other possible STDs.  Was it the excitement? the adventure? i really do not know.  

It was totally out of my character and i do hope that as the Doc says virual zero risk for unprotected oral sex and that tomorrow i get the negative, which from what i see is considered more than conclusive based on my oral sexual activity.

But one think i know today for sure, is that I really love my wife very much and I would hate to think that I have put our lives on the line just cos i wanted some kinky sex from strangers.

This is a message to you all out there, listen to your head bewteen your ears and do not use your the head between your thighs.  If you have a fantasy or desire, keep it that way, or better still go and masturbate to cool yourself down, cos any risk associated with people you do not know (eg sex workers) is just not worth it.  in fact you will feel dirty after such an encounter and hence look at me here, imagine what some of you must also be also going through.  And if your married, the guilt and anxiety will itself probably bring on more of those weird symptoms related to HIV.

Once this blows all away, I want to be able to raise a campaign for HIV/STD awareness as I do believe we are all living in a very precarious world, and possibly we do not have all the correct facts out there for the public to know.

Thank you very much Doc, no more questions for you, promise.

Strangeworld will confirm results tomorrow to you and Doc.  And you too pleae sit and relax.

[strangeworld]

thanks for your reply morestup, Don;t be so hard on yourself, we all make mistakes because we are humans, let it go, i m doing the same thing, i feel the same way you feel, nobody told me that unprotected oral sex for risky, i use to think that only unprotected vaginal and anal sex was risky for HIV ingection but my exposure to oral sex for 15 to 120 secs, i read couple of websites and freaked about and could not sleep or eat or do anything, i still get panic attacks sometimes but slowly coming back to normal and i m going to test @ 12 week mark just to be on the more conservative side.

I do promise myself that i will educate people on HIV/AIDS on a big scale, i hope some day we will make a difference to this world by educating people around us.

Keep me posted and i will do the same to you, once i test on my 3 month mark which is 4 weeks away. Pray for me and i am praying for you.

Take Care my freind ... Let go you guilt .. Forgive yourself

[morestup]

9 weeks test from HIV unprotected oral exposure = Negative!

My Doc says this is conclusive and no more tests are required since the results showed very low points to assume even the thought that I could still be in seroconversion.  I was also negative for Gonnorhea, Chlamydia, Herpes and Syphilis.

This does say alot cos I am pretty sure that at least one of the females performing unprotected oral sex on me was infected.  Though it was not confirmed to me later, the answer as to their possibility that they were infected were never confirmed and the question was shrugged off on three several occassions when i had called them back about my concern.

So lets take it like this, Unprotected Insertive Oral Sex is "almost" impossible with an infected person.  The "almost" bit is the slight and possibly unusual circumstance that may occur when there are apparent sores, cuts or ulcers in the infected mouth that comes into contact with a sore, cut or ulcer on the uninfected penis.  So even though the official guidelines state that "Oral sex can also transmit HIV" without detailing explanations and the very very low risk if any, is not generally correct.  They are absolutely right that it can be transmitted, but it is so extremely low to be even considered.  

Therefore my conclusion, from my own personal experience, is that our Doc HHH is correct and that it would be difficult to acquire HIV from Oral Sex unless you are the one in a million chance with all the factors as mentioned above.  And talking about chances, the possibilities of you walking out today and getting hit by a bus is far greater.

I would still say, play safe dear friends, and if you are married dont play...watch a horny movie and just come on your own ;)))

And to my dear friend Strangeworld, take the test now if you want, but if you want to hold on until the 3 months are completed and are not too anxious about it, then do so.  You will be negative anyway.  You dont have HIV from the exposures you describe.  Full Stop!

And to our great compassionate ;) Doc HHH, this service is greater than any I have seen, and not because I was negative today but for the wealth of experience and detailed information that you have provided all of us.  Well Done!

On a last note, I still have gases in my stomach, my scrotum is red and uncomfortable and my penis is slightly red, slightly painful groins particularly on right side with glands still very swollen.  This is still fact but unanswered, and all these symptoms have remained with me throughout the last 8 weeks approximately.

Furthermore, in the window period, I have experienced abdominal pains, general weakness and feeling of unwell, nausea, pain in butt and shooting down my right leg, whitish film coated tongue with numbness on the tip, itchiness, excema and rash on parts of the body that has never happened before, swollen glands and enlarged and hurting lymph nodes above groins, under armpits, knees, and back of neck, feeling of vomit, had diarrhea on three occasions, pain in lower back (still there), headache and migraine, loss of appetite, numbness on limbs..........so what does this tell us:

ITS IN YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[strangeworld]

Morestup---

A very good news my dear freind. Congrats for the negative results.

Thanks for the update, i will test soon  :-)

Are you going to visit this forum anymore? Are you going to test after 4 months mark?

Please do let me know.  And please enjoy now

[strangeworld]

Sorry,
Correction: I meant in 4 weeks NOT 4 months, i am sure you don;t need it but just wondering?
Thanks

[morestup]

Yes i probably will test for the sake of it, but rest assured, I feel fine and I am not worried anymore!

Of course I shall come back to this forum, cos I think its my duty to assist those in a similar situation, there is a saying:

"A problem shared is a problem halved"

I hope you stay in the forum and i am sure we shall be posting comments together.

Keep me updated with your results :)

[strangeworld]

morestup: i am really scared to get tested, should i test now or in 4 weeks? i don;t know i am really confused.

[morestup]

If you can test now, do it!  But i'm going to do it again in 3 weeks.  Just to reconfirm.  But i know its negative cos my doc said so and so did doc HHH for my 7 week test.

[strangeworld]

So what do you think my chances are... i had only had 15 to 20 seconds or insertive oral sex unprotected? with a sex worker exactly the same week as you did. I hope i will be negative when i test in four weeks. But i am really scared to get tested.

[Imdumb]

Your chances of getting HIV from that activity (insertive oral) is ZERO!

Enjoy the holidays, you are fine.

[morestup]

I agree with Imdumb.

You dont get HIV from Unprotected Insertive Oral Sex, whether the partner was high risk or low risk or whether it was 15-20 secs or 15-20 mins.  

Best Wishes.