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HSV-2 through social kiss and utensil-Dr.hook
Hi Dr. Hook,
I have been reading about herpes quite a lot since I found out its possible to spread it via oral sex and HSV-2 can manifest itself orally.
I am totally confused and worried about somethings which I just cant understand. For one, HSV-2 is said that it cannot be passed on by kissing on someones cheek(lets assume that it has touched the lips several times while kissing), another scenario is of sharing of drinks which all literature says that its close to impossible to pass HSV-2 when sharing a drink.
Then there is this thing about viral shedding, now surely with millions of millions of people sharing drinks and kissing on the cheeks, how is that HSV-2 does not infect the person. Even with viral shedding. An example is a social kiss.
Is there some enzyme in the saliva which disables the virus? But then again its possible to spread via oral sex.There must be something which disables the virus which prevents it to spread via either kissing or sharing a drink.So whats the difference with oral sex and sharing a drink?
With my little research over the internet I came about this article in pubmed which states that saliva has anti-viral properties and inhibits HSV in the mouth, so i figured that has something to do with it with low concentrations of HSV-2 saliva will make it impossible for HSV-2 to infect.
Could you help me to understand it much better so that I can put this misunderstanding behind me. I was thinking of being a father in about 2-3 years but all this information on the internet has kind of freaked me out since I wouldnt want lots of people kissing the child. I rather wait for another 8 years or so until there could possibly be a vaccine by then.
I have been reading about herpes quite a lot since I found out its possible to spread it via oral sex and HSV-2 can manifest itself orally.
I am totally confused and worried about somethings which I just cant understand. For one, HSV-2 is said that it cannot be passed on by kissing on someones cheek(lets assume that it has touched the lips several times while kissing), another scenario is of sharing of drinks which all literature says that its close to impossible to pass HSV-2 when sharing a drink.
Then there is this thing about viral shedding, now surely with millions of millions of people sharing drinks and kissing on the cheeks, how is that HSV-2 does not infect the person. Even with viral shedding. An example is a social kiss.
Is there some enzyme in the saliva which disables the virus? But then again its possible to spread via oral sex.There must be something which disables the virus which prevents it to spread via either kissing or sharing a drink.So whats the difference with oral sex and sharing a drink?
With my little research over the internet I came about this article in pubmed which states that saliva has anti-viral properties and inhibits HSV in the mouth, so i figured that has something to do with it with low concentrations of HSV-2 saliva will make it impossible for HSV-2 to infect.
Could you help me to understand it much better so that I can put this misunderstanding behind me. I was thinking of being a father in about 2-3 years but all this information on the internet has kind of freaked me out since I wouldnt want lots of people kissing the child. I rather wait for another 8 years or so until there could possibly be a vaccine by then.
A related discussion, can I pass hsv2 to my child by kissing him? was started.
A related discussion, Oral HSV2 ??? was started.
I was just wondering if you know of any studies which looks into the fragility of the virus such as the temperature difference and the lack of moisture. Would be great if you can suggest any, it sure will be helpful to read. Thanks
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
The problem with threads like this is not only the reasonableness (or lack of it) in the concerns expressed. It is tone, anxiety, and the purposes of the forum. In addition to answering a questioner's personal concerns related to STD, MeHelp seeks to be a useful educational resource for others who may access its forums. Repeated questions for clarification or expansion on a personal concern, often anxiety-driven, do not serve that broader need. (This thread had even more of that than you can see; some comments were deleted without reply.) Finally, our experience is that the individual questioner often is not served by responding to all such concerns; the more questions there are, and the more arcane and/or anxiety driven they appear to be, the more a distant online source becomes unsuitable and may serve to simply reinforce those anxieties.
It is not my intent to initiate an ongoing dialog on this. That will definitely be the end of this thread.
It is not my intent to initiate an ongoing dialog on this. That will definitely be the end of this thread.
Personally as an outside observer I think Glen_stewartt had perfectly valid and reasonable question. I also fail to understand why someone should not fear contracting HSV1 since it can be spread to the eyes and it has been linked to a much higher risk of alzheimer's.
Thank you for your reply. I am new to HSV and had many questions in my mind. The little discussion I had in this thread was very helpful in my understanding.I know some of them may have sounded ridiculous but I had to ask, in a way its better to ask then not at all.This thread might be a refence to the overly curious such as myself.
Anyhow I thank you once more for your patience and especially your professional attitude in replying to my many queries. I understand that you do have limited time and I appreciate your replies as above.
Anyhow I thank you once more for your patience and especially your professional attitude in replying to my many queries. I understand that you do have limited time and I appreciate your replies as above.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Good grief. Now you're worried about catching HSV-1 by sharing drinking glasses. With or without beer in the glass, there is a theoretical risk. You, my friend, need to get a life and work to get herpes out of your head. You probably would benefit from counseling about it, which I suggest from compassion, not criticism.
But this forum is not the place for the emotional support you apparently need. Therefore, that is all for this thread. If you post another comment, the entire thread will be deleted. And please do not start a new question on this topic on this forum, which would be deleted without response.
But this forum is not the place for the emotional support you apparently need. Therefore, that is all for this thread. If you post another comment, the entire thread will be deleted. And please do not start a new question on this topic on this forum, which would be deleted without response.
I understand soap and water kills of the HSV virus, are there any data which indicates that beer with a content of 4-5% alcohol is sufficient to kill the virus? Thanks
Alright thank you for the answer and your point of view on that paper. I would also like to thank you for all the contribution you and your team are working hard towards running an online forum such as medhelp which helps many people around the world.I apologise to you if I could have come about being "annoying" which was not my intentions at all as I was just searching for some answers and a better understanding.
Please note that I also appreciate the time you take to answer such unusual questions.
Kind Regards,
Please note that I also appreciate the time you take to answer such unusual questions.
Kind Regards,
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Your attempted follow-up comments were deleted, both here and in another thread, because there is no obligation for MedHelp moderators to respond to follow-up questions that are deemed not contributory to the discussion. Some moderators set their browsers so they never even see follow-up comments. Your accusatory/challenging tone also is unwelcome.
The paper you keep citing is a highly theoretical laboratory study whose important to HSV transmission is impossible to judge.
The paper you keep citing is a highly theoretical laboratory study whose important to HSV transmission is impossible to judge.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
I'm still at a loss why you are so concerned about all this. HSV is such a minor health problem comapred to so many other serious infections that are much more common, as well as more severe, in either children or adults.
In any case, herpetic whitlow occurs almost mostly in health care workers who screw up and fail to use gloves when doing medical procedures on or near the mouth of a patient with an active cold sore or, less commonly, in people who are suffering their first episode of oral or genital herpes. I doubt it ever is acquired by handshake or other personal contact.
In any case, herpetic whitlow occurs almost mostly in health care workers who screw up and fail to use gloves when doing medical procedures on or near the mouth of a patient with an active cold sore or, less commonly, in people who are suffering their first episode of oral or genital herpes. I doubt it ever is acquired by handshake or other personal contact.
Thank you for your reply. I think understanding the mechanics helps to make sense in understanding that its purely a sexually transmitted disease. The internet can be a place of so much of misinformation and misunderstanding. I stumbled upon the materials over the internet by accident and initially it comes as a shock to see those photographs of lesions located around anywhere around the body(hands,face, mouth, etc.), the unconcious mind begins to wonder or question that if herpes really is a sexually transmitted disease and whether is it possible for other non-sexual ways of transmission.Some of the literature stating the lesions to be extremely contagious is confusing too.
Your professional advice and explaination has been very helpful to put the facts straight. I am ready to move on now.
Just a last question, I guess I already know the answer but shall ask anyhow to finally close this chapter. I guess herpetic whitlow cannot be transfered via a handshake or a quick touch?I believe there is no documented case about this as well?Its the same as the answer above that it has to be messaged onto the hands?
Thank you doctor, that is my last question and I am done with the topic of herpes.
Your professional advice and explaination has been very helpful to put the facts straight. I am ready to move on now.
Just a last question, I guess I already know the answer but shall ask anyhow to finally close this chapter. I guess herpetic whitlow cannot be transfered via a handshake or a quick touch?I believe there is no documented case about this as well?Its the same as the answer above that it has to be messaged onto the hands?
Thank you doctor, that is my last question and I am done with the topic of herpes.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the STD forum. Dr. Hook and I take questions interchangably. We have worked closely together for 3 decades and for practical purposes our opinions and advice are identical, although our wording and styles may differ.
Reacting first to the opening paragraph: Although technically correct that oral HSV-2 can be acquired by oral sex, the "tone" of your comment is wrong. As you were told by Terri Warren on the herpes forum, oral HSV-2 is very rare.
In theory could oral HSV-2 be transmitted by kissing? Sure. But if so, it is exceedingly rare; to my knowledge there is not a single report in the medical literature of it ever happening. As for "social" kissing, definitely not. HSV-2 is not transmitted at all by fleeting, brief contact of the sort implied by social kissing. The virus has to be actively massaged into tissue for infection to take hold, which is why initial genital herpes almost always appears at sites of maximum friction during sex, like the penile shaft, the anus, or the vaginal opening.
In other words, the mechanics of transmission probably have more to do with the rarity of oral HSV-2 and oral-oral transmission than the antiviral effects of saliva. I am unaware of any data or research on HSV inhibition by saliva, although this makes sense, since saliva indeed inhibitis some viruses, such as HIV. But I can't say more.
Both these questions and the ones on the herpes forum suggest you tend to be over-interpreting things you have found by intensive internet searching. It is not reasonable to worry about a future child catching oral herpes due to HSV-2. Lots of kids catch HSV-1, but mostly from other children -- and it isn't anything to lose sleep about. But no kid ever caught HSV-2 unless born to a mother with the virus, or as the result of sexual abuse.
I hope this information helps. But let's not get into an extended exchange of follow-up comments as in your previous thread.
Regards-- HHH, MD
Reacting first to the opening paragraph: Although technically correct that oral HSV-2 can be acquired by oral sex, the "tone" of your comment is wrong. As you were told by Terri Warren on the herpes forum, oral HSV-2 is very rare.
In theory could oral HSV-2 be transmitted by kissing? Sure. But if so, it is exceedingly rare; to my knowledge there is not a single report in the medical literature of it ever happening. As for "social" kissing, definitely not. HSV-2 is not transmitted at all by fleeting, brief contact of the sort implied by social kissing. The virus has to be actively massaged into tissue for infection to take hold, which is why initial genital herpes almost always appears at sites of maximum friction during sex, like the penile shaft, the anus, or the vaginal opening.
In other words, the mechanics of transmission probably have more to do with the rarity of oral HSV-2 and oral-oral transmission than the antiviral effects of saliva. I am unaware of any data or research on HSV inhibition by saliva, although this makes sense, since saliva indeed inhibitis some viruses, such as HIV. But I can't say more.
Both these questions and the ones on the herpes forum suggest you tend to be over-interpreting things you have found by intensive internet searching. It is not reasonable to worry about a future child catching oral herpes due to HSV-2. Lots of kids catch HSV-1, but mostly from other children -- and it isn't anything to lose sleep about. But no kid ever caught HSV-2 unless born to a mother with the virus, or as the result of sexual abuse.
I hope this information helps. But let's not get into an extended exchange of follow-up comments as in your previous thread.
Regards-- HHH, MD
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
