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Herpes experts please give input on my case
by jj in CA, Jul 26, 2007 01:37AM
Hello,
I really want to post this to the doc on this site but I've tried for several days and it always says "Forum is full". I'll keep trying but in the meantime I would welcome any input from people who have experience with herpes or who can shed any light on my situation.
I think I have an unusual experience with herpes as I have not been able to find anything on forums I've been researching that closely matches my case. I believe there are several factors to consider so I'll try to lay them out as clearly as I can here. I apologize in advance if this post seems overly long, but I wanted to describe everything in detail.
First of all, I'm a 31yr old health conscious male with no previous signs of STDs or any other diseases. However, I do recall that I used to have very serious itching in the genital area when I was in my early teens, and I would scratch to the point of creating large weeping lesions. The itching went away completely in my mid-teens. I hadn't had any sexual encounters at this time in my life, I have never seen anyone in my family with herpes symptoms.
My sexual experience is very limited for a 31 year old, to the point that I can accurately recite my history here. I had condom protected sex several times with 1 woman about 10 years ago, received oral sex once about 4 years ago, and have had mutual masterbation (masturbation)/fondling with a few other women over the years, the last one being about 1 1/2 years ago. I probably transferred vaginal fluid to myself by hand to my own genitals at least a couple of times during these episodes.
Another factor to consider, and I haven't found any reference to this relative to herpes anywhere, is that I am exposed to cadaver tissue at work, especially spinal tissue, and I may have gotten hit with a few splashed droplets on my face/lip area once or twice before I got smarter about it and started using face shields. The spines are usually frozen and thawed if that makes a difference. Is it possible to catch herpes from cadaver tissue?
I also hung out for a few days with a buddy who I know has frequent oral herpes outbreaks, about 3 weeks prior to my first outbreak and may have shared drinking glasses with him. I kissed a woman with no obvious coldsore symptoms at about this timeframe, just a light peck, no open mouth.
Anyway, those are all the risk factors I can think of. Here are how my symptoms presented themselves.
I had my first cold sores on my lips that I can ever recall about 2 months ago. Just about 1 day after the cold sores started, I noticed a slightly itchy area on the shaft of my penis which did not look like blisters but was red and did weep slightly for a day or so before quickly turning into a light scab. The lip cold sore (which covered about 1/3 of my top and bottom lips) lasted about 10 days start to finish and the penis symptoms (very mild, almost unnoticable) went away totally in about 5 days start to finish. Aside from the local sores and scabs, I felt no ill effects from this 1st outbreak, except a shooting leg pain which started at least a week before this outbreak and may or may not be related.
At this point I knew I had oral herpes and I was concerned about my penis but I thought the symptoms on the penis were from simply being too rough during masterbation (masturbation) and/or from overwashing with soap.
A little over a month after the first outbreak, I again got lip cold sores, which were milder than the first time. I did treat my lips with Abreva starting the 2nd day, which may have kept it from getting worse. But at the same time, I got small blisters on the same spot on my penis that were definitely more significant than the first time. The blisters looked just like the herpes pictures I've seen on the internet, just much smaller. However, they didnt' hurt and only itched a little bit when they sort of got a bit wet at about day 3. I didn't really notice they popped and pussed, just sort of got a little sticky and uncomfortable. They again turned into a very light scab, but much later than before at about day 5. The scab took a long time to go away and the penile symptoms lasted about 14 days start to finish.
And, at the tail end of the 2nd lip and genital outbreak (if that's what it was), I woke up to find a red area about the size of an pencil eraser at the corner of my right eye (on the skin, not the eye itself) that looked to me like the same type of blister I had seen on my lips. I quickly dabbed alcohol gel (Purell) on the area which seemed to make the red area subside, and I continued to do this every few hours for 5 days until the area looked like it was completely subsiding. I feel this spot has to be related to the herpes outbreak because of the timing and since I can't recall ever seeing such a thing near my eyes in the past. Too much to be a coincidence.
I felt much worse during the 2nd outbreak as far as feeling sick, loss of appetite, loss of mental focus, as well as some mild shooting pains in the left upper leg etc which seemed to go away at the tail end of my 2nd outbreak, but has since come back sporadically and seems to also be happening now a little lower in the quadricep. Another strange thing is that I had this leg pain for at least a week PRIOR to my 1st ever outbreak, which probably means it's not psychosomatic but real since I had no reason to suspect I had herpes then.
I did go see my doctor near the end of the 2nd outbreak, but unfortunately it was too late in the process and all he saw was the residual light scab on the penis and the subsiding red spot near my eye (which he thought was not herpes but I think my application of Purell may have affected how it looked). He gave me a prescription for antiviral medication just in case the eye thing spread, but we agreed that we should wait to see if there's another outbreak on the penis so we can take swabs. He saw no point in doing a blood test since I obviously had cold sores on the lips (and thus probably HSV1), he just wasn't sure if I also had genital herpes too since my symptoms had largely disappeared by the time I saw him. However, now I'm wondering if we should have done a blood test anyway to see if I also have HSV2?
So my questions are these:
1. Given my limited sexual history, what do you think was the most likely cause of my initial infection with the virus, whether it's HSV1 or HSV2? Why would I have an outbreak now? Prior to these outbreaks, I would have called this one of the least stressful periods of my life.
2. I could see how I could have caught oral herpes since I've kissed probably over a dozen women over the years, but how did this thing get on my penis and my eye?
3. Is it normal for oral and genital herpes outbreaks to occur and recur together? I thought I read a post from a doc on this forum that this doesn't happen.
4. How likely is it for me to keep getting recurring outbreaks in either location?
5. Is there any benefit to getting a blood test now or should I just wait for another outbreak to take a swab like my doctor suggested?
6. Will taking the antivirals (I haven't taken them yet) help me feel better as far as feeling sick? The scabs are all gone but I still feel tired and have those leg pains I talked about, as well has weird random itching which may be the 2nd outbreak in its last throes, or may be mental. I also get a warm feeling in my testicles sometimes, even though they are not actually warm to the touch.
7. Anything else I should be doing so as to make myself better physically and more informed about my condition?
Thank you for getting through this very long post. Thank you very much for any insight you may have on my experience.
I really want to post this to the doc on this site but I've tried for several days and it always says "Forum is full". I'll keep trying but in the meantime I would welcome any input from people who have experience with herpes or who can shed any light on my situation.
I think I have an unusual experience with herpes as I have not been able to find anything on forums I've been researching that closely matches my case. I believe there are several factors to consider so I'll try to lay them out as clearly as I can here. I apologize in advance if this post seems overly long, but I wanted to describe everything in detail.
First of all, I'm a 31yr old health conscious male with no previous signs of STDs or any other diseases. However, I do recall that I used to have very serious itching in the genital area when I was in my early teens, and I would scratch to the point of creating large weeping lesions. The itching went away completely in my mid-teens. I hadn't had any sexual encounters at this time in my life, I have never seen anyone in my family with herpes symptoms.
My sexual experience is very limited for a 31 year old, to the point that I can accurately recite my history here. I had condom protected sex several times with 1 woman about 10 years ago, received oral sex once about 4 years ago, and have had mutual masterbation (masturbation)/fondling with a few other women over the years, the last one being about 1 1/2 years ago. I probably transferred vaginal fluid to myself by hand to my own genitals at least a couple of times during these episodes.
Another factor to consider, and I haven't found any reference to this relative to herpes anywhere, is that I am exposed to cadaver tissue at work, especially spinal tissue, and I may have gotten hit with a few splashed droplets on my face/lip area once or twice before I got smarter about it and started using face shields. The spines are usually frozen and thawed if that makes a difference. Is it possible to catch herpes from cadaver tissue?
I also hung out for a few days with a buddy who I know has frequent oral herpes outbreaks, about 3 weeks prior to my first outbreak and may have shared drinking glasses with him. I kissed a woman with no obvious coldsore symptoms at about this timeframe, just a light peck, no open mouth.
Anyway, those are all the risk factors I can think of. Here are how my symptoms presented themselves.
I had my first cold sores on my lips that I can ever recall about 2 months ago. Just about 1 day after the cold sores started, I noticed a slightly itchy area on the shaft of my penis which did not look like blisters but was red and did weep slightly for a day or so before quickly turning into a light scab. The lip cold sore (which covered about 1/3 of my top and bottom lips) lasted about 10 days start to finish and the penis symptoms (very mild, almost unnoticable) went away totally in about 5 days start to finish. Aside from the local sores and scabs, I felt no ill effects from this 1st outbreak, except a shooting leg pain which started at least a week before this outbreak and may or may not be related.
At this point I knew I had oral herpes and I was concerned about my penis but I thought the symptoms on the penis were from simply being too rough during masterbation (masturbation) and/or from overwashing with soap.
A little over a month after the first outbreak, I again got lip cold sores, which were milder than the first time. I did treat my lips with Abreva starting the 2nd day, which may have kept it from getting worse. But at the same time, I got small blisters on the same spot on my penis that were definitely more significant than the first time. The blisters looked just like the herpes pictures I've seen on the internet, just much smaller. However, they didnt' hurt and only itched a little bit when they sort of got a bit wet at about day 3. I didn't really notice they popped and pussed, just sort of got a little sticky and uncomfortable. They again turned into a very light scab, but much later than before at about day 5. The scab took a long time to go away and the penile symptoms lasted about 14 days start to finish.
And, at the tail end of the 2nd lip and genital outbreak (if that's what it was), I woke up to find a red area about the size of an pencil eraser at the corner of my right eye (on the skin, not the eye itself) that looked to me like the same type of blister I had seen on my lips. I quickly dabbed alcohol gel (Purell) on the area which seemed to make the red area subside, and I continued to do this every few hours for 5 days until the area looked like it was completely subsiding. I feel this spot has to be related to the herpes outbreak because of the timing and since I can't recall ever seeing such a thing near my eyes in the past. Too much to be a coincidence.
I felt much worse during the 2nd outbreak as far as feeling sick, loss of appetite, loss of mental focus, as well as some mild shooting pains in the left upper leg etc which seemed to go away at the tail end of my 2nd outbreak, but has since come back sporadically and seems to also be happening now a little lower in the quadricep. Another strange thing is that I had this leg pain for at least a week PRIOR to my 1st ever outbreak, which probably means it's not psychosomatic but real since I had no reason to suspect I had herpes then.
I did go see my doctor near the end of the 2nd outbreak, but unfortunately it was too late in the process and all he saw was the residual light scab on the penis and the subsiding red spot near my eye (which he thought was not herpes but I think my application of Purell may have affected how it looked). He gave me a prescription for antiviral medication just in case the eye thing spread, but we agreed that we should wait to see if there's another outbreak on the penis so we can take swabs. He saw no point in doing a blood test since I obviously had cold sores on the lips (and thus probably HSV1), he just wasn't sure if I also had genital herpes too since my symptoms had largely disappeared by the time I saw him. However, now I'm wondering if we should have done a blood test anyway to see if I also have HSV2?
So my questions are these:
1. Given my limited sexual history, what do you think was the most likely cause of my initial infection with the virus, whether it's HSV1 or HSV2? Why would I have an outbreak now? Prior to these outbreaks, I would have called this one of the least stressful periods of my life.
2. I could see how I could have caught oral herpes since I've kissed probably over a dozen women over the years, but how did this thing get on my penis and my eye?
3. Is it normal for oral and genital herpes outbreaks to occur and recur together? I thought I read a post from a doc on this forum that this doesn't happen.
4. How likely is it for me to keep getting recurring outbreaks in either location?
5. Is there any benefit to getting a blood test now or should I just wait for another outbreak to take a swab like my doctor suggested?
6. Will taking the antivirals (I haven't taken them yet) help me feel better as far as feeling sick? The scabs are all gone but I still feel tired and have those leg pains I talked about, as well has weird random itching which may be the 2nd outbreak in its last throes, or may be mental. I also get a warm feeling in my testicles sometimes, even though they are not actually warm to the touch.
7. Anything else I should be doing so as to make myself better physically and more informed about my condition?
Thank you for getting through this very long post. Thank you very much for any insight you may have on my experience.
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I disagree with your doctor about all of this. I think you need to get a type specific herpes igg blood test for hsv2 and hsv1. Your last possible exposure was long ago so it is worthwhile to get the blood test and see what your status is. It's not unheard of but to be infected for this long without any symptoms and then suddenly to be having frequent symptoms orally and genitally is a signal to not just assume this is herpes but to do a more thorough work up. You might also have a bacterial or other viral infection too so it's worth doing a thorough work up and not just assuming it's herpes. Hsv is not the only cause of oral lesions even though it is the most common one. You work with cadaver tissue which isn't a risk for herpes but it is for mrsa and other infections. Also you have a history of skin issues from long ago - this could be a flare up of something you've had for years and never got a complete work up for long ago.
Your symptoms are healed - no reason to take antivirals at this point.
grace
grace
As far as the childhood itching, it was different as far as I remember - it was itchy all over my genitals including the testicles and the lesions were from my scratching, not from blisters that pussed. The recent outbreaks are confined to one elongated dime size spot on the left side shaft of the penis.
In my recent outbreaks, both my oral and genital happened at the same time both in the first and second outbreaks and the skin looks like the pictures I've seen of herpes, just not as severe as the internet pics. In fact, this is my biggest question since I have never read about anyone who had simultaneous symptoms in both areas repeatedly.
People seem to be interested in the cadaver aspect. If it sheds any light on the issue, the tissue I work with is usually frozen during shipment but thawed to room temp before we work on them and then refrozen if we want to work on it later. Does a few hours at room temp kill the virus even though it's in the dead tissue?
I have been tested recently for the common stuff that has to do with specimen handling, such as hepatitis, TB, and it was all neg.
I suggest seeing a dermatologist for a further work up. You need complete herpes testing as well as testing for other causes. It might even be something wacky like an allergic reaction to latex ( take off your gloves and the powder is still there with latex particles in it and then touching your face and then your penis when you use the bathroom would transfer the powder there ) or from a product you use everyday at home or at work. I certainly wouldn't assume this has to be herpes - get a full work up from someone who is more willing to get to the bottom of this than you regular doctor seems to be.
When you do get answers - stop back and update us!! enquiring minds wanta know you know!
grace
Your last post touched off some ideas in my head about latex allergies. The day before my 2nd outbreak, I had spent the whole day with powdered latex gloves on working on my car in hot and humid conditions. And looking back on my calendar, about 2-3 days before my first outbreak, I went to work in a hospital to observe a case where I wore gloves and a mask for several hours. However, not too sure if those gloves and mask had any latex in them.
Some internet research turns up that Type IV allergies to latex can have effects within about 48 hours of exposure, so the timeframes are close enough. But why wouldn't I have any reactions on my hands themselves? Also, do I touch my mouth and penis so much that I would have had allergic reactions in the same local spots twice in a row? Can allergic reactions only happen on sensitive spots on the body and not on other spots?
Definitely something to investigate though - I'll ask my doc about it next time I see him, as well as get a blood test done for herpes. Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes, my history and environment should have put me at low risk for contracting herpes. However, I did experience very definite symptoms twice in two months and I'm just trying to figure out what's going on since the way the symptoms happened are not typical of the way herpes normally plays out. The doc on this forum says he's never seen another case of simultaneous oral and genital outbreaks, which I have no doubt I had.
Hopefully a trip to the derm doc clears this all up for you so you can stop worrying so much :)
grace