Aa
Negative tests, but still symptomatic
My situation:
On 10/5/12 I had protected intercourse with SW. Engaged in brief "69" position, with my mouth on her, unprotected. Towards the end, she pulled me out, and with the condom on, started to perform oral. Eventually, she pulled the condom off, and finished unprotected oral. I noticed, that at one point, she spat down into the opening of my urethra.
Soon, I started getting the "classic" HSV symptoms: tingling in the lower back area, the jaw area, and small blisters in groin area. I also, developed two small spots on the inside of my lower lip, that eventually went away, and have not returned.
Subsequent testing:
10/18 PPH, all STDs tested, to establish I didn’t already have something. All negative, no fresh lesions to swab. At 3 month mark. Planned Parenthood, HSV 1&2 (IGG) testing. Blood hemolyzed in transit, had to come in for redraw at 3.25 months. Still negative. Tried again at 4 months, also PPH, same tests. All non-detect.
Following a legal massage at 5 months, small blisters have also shown up on my arms.
At the 6 month mark, tried different clinic, lab on demand place, tested for HSV 1&2, and HIV. Again, all non-detect. Thinking I am in the clear, I bought some trail mix. I’ve been avoiding high arginine foods as much as possible. The very next day, several blisters pop up on both my inner thighs. I believe that given my symptoms I have herpes, and am someone who seroconverts slowly. I know that the only way to be sure, is to have swab testing done. But, I have an erratic schedule so it’s hard to schedule around random lesions.
So, my main question is, do you know of anyone that offers a test at home type of kit for a herpes swab, that is reliable? And I've already spent a bit on all this testing, with nothing to show for it. Also, how long after appearing and left alone, is a herpes blister a viable candidate for swabbing?
Thoughts, recommendations? Other culprits to consider? I’m not sure what my next move is
On 10/5/12 I had protected intercourse with SW. Engaged in brief "69" position, with my mouth on her, unprotected. Towards the end, she pulled me out, and with the condom on, started to perform oral. Eventually, she pulled the condom off, and finished unprotected oral. I noticed, that at one point, she spat down into the opening of my urethra.
Soon, I started getting the "classic" HSV symptoms: tingling in the lower back area, the jaw area, and small blisters in groin area. I also, developed two small spots on the inside of my lower lip, that eventually went away, and have not returned.
Subsequent testing:
10/18 PPH, all STDs tested, to establish I didn’t already have something. All negative, no fresh lesions to swab. At 3 month mark. Planned Parenthood, HSV 1&2 (IGG) testing. Blood hemolyzed in transit, had to come in for redraw at 3.25 months. Still negative. Tried again at 4 months, also PPH, same tests. All non-detect.
Following a legal massage at 5 months, small blisters have also shown up on my arms.
At the 6 month mark, tried different clinic, lab on demand place, tested for HSV 1&2, and HIV. Again, all non-detect. Thinking I am in the clear, I bought some trail mix. I’ve been avoiding high arginine foods as much as possible. The very next day, several blisters pop up on both my inner thighs. I believe that given my symptoms I have herpes, and am someone who seroconverts slowly. I know that the only way to be sure, is to have swab testing done. But, I have an erratic schedule so it’s hard to schedule around random lesions.
So, my main question is, do you know of anyone that offers a test at home type of kit for a herpes swab, that is reliable? And I've already spent a bit on all this testing, with nothing to show for it. Also, how long after appearing and left alone, is a herpes blister a viable candidate for swabbing?
Thoughts, recommendations? Other culprits to consider? I’m not sure what my next move is
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
"When I notice them, I lance them with a clean needle, apply hydrogen peroxide, which does fizz quite a bit (leading me to believe that some pathogen might be present), and dress with Neosporin."
If the lesions were due to herpes, these measures would have absolutely no benefit. As long as the virus continues to reproduce in the tisses -- which continues for 2-5 days -- there will be no healing. And neosporin is an antibiotic, which by definition has no effect on viruses. In other words, your follow-up statement "They seem to heal rather nicely, and quickly, using this approach" is itself evidence against herpes as the cause.
I won't venture a guess as to other causes of the lesions you have been experiencing. My advice is that when they next appear, you leave them alone and see a doctor right away, within a day or two of onset -- preferably a dermatologist, STD specialist, or other herpes expert.
I am unaware of any data on the biological reasons for the tropism (biological attraction) of HSV-1 and 2 for the oral and genital area, respectively -- or for the corresponding differences in both recurrence rates and asymptomatic viral shedding.
If the lesions were due to herpes, these measures would have absolutely no benefit. As long as the virus continues to reproduce in the tisses -- which continues for 2-5 days -- there will be no healing. And neosporin is an antibiotic, which by definition has no effect on viruses. In other words, your follow-up statement "They seem to heal rather nicely, and quickly, using this approach" is itself evidence against herpes as the cause.
I won't venture a guess as to other causes of the lesions you have been experiencing. My advice is that when they next appear, you leave them alone and see a doctor right away, within a day or two of onset -- preferably a dermatologist, STD specialist, or other herpes expert.
I am unaware of any data on the biological reasons for the tropism (biological attraction) of HSV-1 and 2 for the oral and genital area, respectively -- or for the corresponding differences in both recurrence rates and asymptomatic viral shedding.
Thank you for your response. The character limit limited my post a bit, but I understand the need to have one.
One thing that I had to leave out: I've actually never allowed my lesions to get very large. When I notice them, I lance them with a clean needle, apply hydrogen peroxide, which does fizz quite a bit (leading me to believe that some pathogen might be present), and dress with Neosporin. I do this because my job requires a lot of activity, and I don't want large, painful blisters to slow my work down. They seem to heal rather nicely, and quickly, using this approach. And without a diagnosis, I had no antivirals.
I would dearly love to believe that the tests are correct. So, assuming they are, what else might be the culprit? Nothing else in my routine has changed, and I'm not particularly allergic or been exposed to anything out of the ordinary. Are there general purpose swab testing that can differential several different causes? I can believe that it isn't herpes, but I can't believe that nothing is amiss.
I won't keep bugging you, but on a side note, does anyone know the physiological reason why oral HSV 2 rarely recurs? I know that it isn't the virus' "preferred" location, but what is it about that nerve cluster that seems to inhibit recurrences? It almost seems like a primary oral HSV 2 infection would be a blessing: it doesn't bother most people, is rarely contagious, and would at least confer some immunity to genital HSV 2. I am just curious.
One thing that I had to leave out: I've actually never allowed my lesions to get very large. When I notice them, I lance them with a clean needle, apply hydrogen peroxide, which does fizz quite a bit (leading me to believe that some pathogen might be present), and dress with Neosporin. I do this because my job requires a lot of activity, and I don't want large, painful blisters to slow my work down. They seem to heal rather nicely, and quickly, using this approach. And without a diagnosis, I had no antivirals.
I would dearly love to believe that the tests are correct. So, assuming they are, what else might be the culprit? Nothing else in my routine has changed, and I'm not particularly allergic or been exposed to anything out of the ordinary. Are there general purpose swab testing that can differential several different causes? I can believe that it isn't herpes, but I can't believe that nothing is amiss.
I won't keep bugging you, but on a side note, does anyone know the physiological reason why oral HSV 2 rarely recurs? I know that it isn't the virus' "preferred" location, but what is it about that nerve cluster that seems to inhibit recurrences? It almost seems like a primary oral HSV 2 infection would be a blessing: it doesn't bother most people, is rarely contagious, and would at least confer some immunity to genital HSV 2. I am just curious.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your question.
Let's start by correcting a very basic misunderstanding you have picked up somewhere along the line. The symptoms you describe are anything but "classic" for herpes! A classical initial herpes infection starts with very superficial cutaneous red bumps that within 1-2 days become blister-like lesions, then over the next 10-20 days become pustular (containing yellow fluid, i.e. pus), then open up to ulcers, then scabs, then healing. They are typically quite painful. Usually there are no neurological symptoms (tingling, etc). That sometimes comes with recurrent outbreaks, but rarely the initial infeciton - and even with recurrent herpes, symptoms like tingling or various aches and pains are generally localized to the same area where the outbreak is about to apepar, preceding it by a day or two. It is an urban myth that herpes cause various aches and pains, in the back or anywhere else, that are not associated with obvious, easily visible outbreaks. Finally, when there are recurrent outbreaks, they are no more often than once a month -- typically 3-6 times a year for HSV-1, once a year or less for genital HSV-1 -- last 1-2 weeks -- and between those episodes there are no symptoms of any kind. Also, another feature of recurrent herpes is repeated outbreaks in more or less the same spot every time (give or take an inch or two), and generally always on the same side of the body's midline.
I'll bet that description doesn't sound very much like what you have experienced. Your back pain, thigh lesions, and nothing else you mention is highly suspicious for herpes. And I haven't yet said anything about the sexual exposure -- but it was low risk. The chance of HSV-1 or HSV-2 transmission from any single exposure, with a partner not known to have herpes, is probably one in a few thousand. And given the condom use, even lower than that in this instance.
So we can assess three main factors: the risk of infection, your symptoms, and your diagnostic test results. None of these is perfect in predicting the likelihood someone is infected. But the statistical chance that someone has an HSV infection when not one of those factors supports it is, for practical purposes, zero.
Your "next move"? First, accept the rock-solid scientific evidence you don't have herpes. Second, don't worry about your symptoms; they do not sound at all serious. I'm sure they don't suggest anything that will ever harm you or a current or future sex partner. Third, if the latter is a problem for you, discuss it again with your doctor -- and don't be surprised if s/he suggests a potential psychological origin, perhaps related to a sexual decision you regret.
This may not be what you were expecting to hear. But the news is good, i.e. you don't have herpes. I hope this has been helpful.
Regards-- HHH, MD
Let's start by correcting a very basic misunderstanding you have picked up somewhere along the line. The symptoms you describe are anything but "classic" for herpes! A classical initial herpes infection starts with very superficial cutaneous red bumps that within 1-2 days become blister-like lesions, then over the next 10-20 days become pustular (containing yellow fluid, i.e. pus), then open up to ulcers, then scabs, then healing. They are typically quite painful. Usually there are no neurological symptoms (tingling, etc). That sometimes comes with recurrent outbreaks, but rarely the initial infeciton - and even with recurrent herpes, symptoms like tingling or various aches and pains are generally localized to the same area where the outbreak is about to apepar, preceding it by a day or two. It is an urban myth that herpes cause various aches and pains, in the back or anywhere else, that are not associated with obvious, easily visible outbreaks. Finally, when there are recurrent outbreaks, they are no more often than once a month -- typically 3-6 times a year for HSV-1, once a year or less for genital HSV-1 -- last 1-2 weeks -- and between those episodes there are no symptoms of any kind. Also, another feature of recurrent herpes is repeated outbreaks in more or less the same spot every time (give or take an inch or two), and generally always on the same side of the body's midline.
I'll bet that description doesn't sound very much like what you have experienced. Your back pain, thigh lesions, and nothing else you mention is highly suspicious for herpes. And I haven't yet said anything about the sexual exposure -- but it was low risk. The chance of HSV-1 or HSV-2 transmission from any single exposure, with a partner not known to have herpes, is probably one in a few thousand. And given the condom use, even lower than that in this instance.
So we can assess three main factors: the risk of infection, your symptoms, and your diagnostic test results. None of these is perfect in predicting the likelihood someone is infected. But the statistical chance that someone has an HSV infection when not one of those factors supports it is, for practical purposes, zero.
Your "next move"? First, accept the rock-solid scientific evidence you don't have herpes. Second, don't worry about your symptoms; they do not sound at all serious. I'm sure they don't suggest anything that will ever harm you or a current or future sex partner. Third, if the latter is a problem for you, discuss it again with your doctor -- and don't be surprised if s/he suggests a potential psychological origin, perhaps related to a sexual decision you regret.
This may not be what you were expecting to hear. But the news is good, i.e. you don't have herpes. I hope this has been helpful.
Regards-- HHH, MD
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
