STDs Community
Nongonaccal Urethritis Transmission
About This Community:

This forum is for questions and support regarding STD issues such as: Chlamydia, Crabs (pubic lice scabies), Gonorrhea, Hepatitis (viral), Herpes, HPV, Molluscum Contagiosum, PID, Rectal Infections, Syphilis, Trichomonas, Warts, Yeast Infection

For questions and support for HPV/genital warts, please visit our HPV Community. For questions and support for Herpes, please visit our Herpes Community.

Please note, this forum does not cover AIDS/HIV issues. Please visit our HIV Prevention Community for information and support.

Font Size:
A
A
A
Background:
Blank
Blank
Blank
Blank Blank

Nongonaccal Urethritis Transmission

Hello

I'm hoping someone can give me some reasonable advice.  About 6 months back I had oral sex without a condom and then vaginal sex with a condom with a woman I didn't know very well.  Two days later I had unprotected sex with my wife.  3 days after that I began noticing symptoms such as a thin clear discharge (it leaves yellowish stains in my underwear), I have a frequent urge to urinate, occasionally I get a sharp shooting pain in my urethra, and some times the tip of my penis is sensitive.  I never experienced the thick discharge or the burning sensation while urinating.  I went to see my doctor he had gave me Ceftriaxone Sodium (250 mg) shot and then a Doxycyline Hyclate (100 mg) 10 day prescription.  He dignosed me with Urethritis.  He took a urine sample and I was negative for Gonorrhea and Chlamydia.  He also examined my urine for increased white blood cells but that was negative also.  I took the prescription and didn't have sex with my wife for 7 days and finished the prescription.  

6 months later I still have the symptoms described above, but I've read a lot on this form that many times the syptoms (symptoms) stay with people.  My questions are:

1.  Is there a good possibility my wife has NGU due to me having sex with her 2 days after I was exposed and has it just been passed back to me?  When I had sex with her two days after my encounter with another woman I don't remember any symptoms except frequent urge to unrinate.  

2.  Is two days a long enough gestation period to where I could have passed it to my wife?  

I've been worried sick for months now due to the fact that I may have passed it on to her.  We have a 2 year old child and I'm sure if I suggested she get checked, it would open up a can or worms and much suspicion, and I know she will probably leave me.  I know anxiety also causes symptoms to remain, but I'm really worried that NGU is present in both of us, and the mental anguish of not knowing and potentially hurting my wife has driven me to the point  of contemplating suicide.  

I know this whole story does not look good and I know the answer is that I probably passed it onto my wife.  Can any health professionals comment on this regarding the two questions above?  

Thank you
Related Discussions
58 Comments Post a Comment
Blank
1318465_tn?1340571541
Hello

1. The chance your wife has an NGU due to having sex with her 2 days after your potential exposure is low.   In fact I would bet money on it that she doesn't have an NGU infection.

Note to answer the second half of your question about passing back to you; you can get NGU from having monogomous sex  some men are prone to gential (genital) infections such as NGU.  

2.  The answer is yes, but I doubt you passed anything to her.   The chance of that is minimal, I would nod my head for NGU.

Finally it has been 6 months since, and you  didn't infect her with an NGU infection as she doesn't appear to have any symptoms.   Please try to believe the fact that you did NOT infect her with anything.    Your closing paragraph is incorrect.    
Blank
1318465_tn?1340571541
ah, yes,... I had lost the link to this article but here it is:  Please read it.

http://www.region8ipp.com/Docs/Articles/35538.pdf

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the reply and the link to the article.  I read it but it still does not give me much reassurance.  My wife and I have been together for 11 years and I've not had this issue prior to this inccident, so it does not appear I'm predisposed to genital infections.  

Regarding my wife not having symptoms, isn't it common for females to be asymtematic?  So she could have it, and not show signs?  In addition, if we ever have another child, and she does have NGU, can't there be complications.  

Also, is there an equal chance of a male transmitting NGU to a female and female to male?  Or does one gender typically have a greater probability of contracting NGU?

I'm sorry I'm throwing things out there as if I'm doubting, but I have been researching this for some time and cannot find anything to calm my fears.  I do the best I can to manage my anxiety and live a normal life, but it's difficult.  I hope you understand and don't take my response the wrong way.  
Blank
101028_tn?1348750963
ngu is basically an uti for males.  like some women get them frequently after sex, some males are prone to it after sex, especially oral sex. what is normal flora in the  mouth, isn't always so normal in the urogenital tract.    

is this an issue for your wife? no it is not.

continue to follow up on your symptoms with your provider. at this point a visit to an urologist is probably your best course of action.  have they checked your prostate?  have they done additional cultures?

grace
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks Grace.  No additional cultures have been done.  Prostate was checked and doc said there doesn't seem to be an issue there.  

I still have the urge to urinate, even after I just went, random stinging or shooting sharp pain the urethra.  Perhaps you're correct and it's time for more follow up with a urologist.  My GP never did a swab test, but did a urine culture.  How reliable is the urine culture in detecting Chlamydia?  Could it have been missed in the first culture my GP did?  I gave them a sample 6 days after my encounter with a potentially infected woman.  I'm a little worried that perhaps they got a false negative.  I've read a lot of about different ways to give samples, but I was not instructed on how to do it, nor did they ask the last time I urinated.  They just sent me in the bathroom with a cup.  I swabed the tip of my penis with a anti bacterial wipe they gave me and then urinated in the cup.  Could this have give a false negative if the anti bacterial mixed with the urine?  
Blank
101028_tn?1348750963
urine testing is fine for chlamydia and gonorrhea testing.
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
NGU - I am in a very similar situation as you.  You can see my interaction with Dr. Hook here:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/NGU-or-prostate-or-nerves/show/1467460?personal_page_id=1992223#post_6673973

It started a little over 6 months ago for me. Unprotected oral, protected vaginal sex. Negative testing 2 times for chlamydia/gon.  Many examinations for WBC in urine...all showing none.  Over 1 month of levaquin and a couple of weeks of cipro.

Since my last post there, I am still experiencing the slight discharge a couple of times throughout the day.  I sometimes have frequent urination...though I drink a lot of water because if I don't urinate for a couple of hours the discharge is there.  I also get the odd twinges, discomfort and feeling that something just isn't right.

My urologist won't see me anymore..."there is nothing wrong with you urologically".  This was a week or so ago after yet another UA with no white blood cells detected.  That is my 6th or so. No explanation for the discharge though, other than "sometimes your glands can do that after extended antibiotics".  Not a satisfying answer.

I'm seeing a different urologist, but can't get in for a month.  In the meantime the anxiety has been horrible for months now.  I wake up in the morning and my first thought is NGU.  It really is quite terrible.  I, too, know my wife would leave me and take the kids if I gave her anything.  Please though, put thoughts of suicide away (though I know they've popped up to me too).

I wish there were a way to tell what the heck that discharge is.  I wish I knew that if I did have NGU it would not effect my wife in any way.  I can live with slight discharge I suppose but what do I need to do to *know* these things?

I didn't mean to jump on your thread.  I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in what you are experiencing.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for the link to your interaction with Dr Hook.  In closing, you said you felt comfortable knowing you didn't have NGU after your visit with the urologist.  Has that changed?  Based on your reply to my post, it appears you're still having issues?  

These symptoms we are both having seem manageable, even though at times they can be uncomfortable.  I share your concern, in that I wish I knew what it is exactly that is going on.  I haven't had extensive testing like you've had, just the treatment described above.  Based on my research, it appears these symptoms can linger with the patient for years after a bout of NGU, even though there is no infection present.  However, it is not comforting to know that there is not a lot of information out there on non-gonorrhea, non chlamydia NGU and that I'm still having these symptoms.  It makes it impossible to put your mind at ease and just move on as Dr Hook suggests.  What someone tells you and what you feel and experience are two different things and it's hard to ignore the physical evidence.  

I have a question for you....Has your wife ever expressed that she had any sypmtoms similar to NGU or chlamydia?  I know it can be asymtematic in women, but I also understand it can manifest it's self in very horrible ways.  

I do not begrudge you in any way for jumping on my thread.  I totally appreciate additional information.  Please keep me posted if you find out anything new with your condition.  I also appreciate your words regarding my mental state.  I can see that you also understand how anxiety can grip you and make you do and feel things you normally wouldn't.  After this experience I now know what it's like to be paranoid, however no one else knows except me, so it makes it even more difficult.  People have noticed a change in my mood and persona.  People have commented many times asking if anything is wrong and that I seem different.  Although I try to maintain a normal life, the guilt, worry, anxiety, fear for my wife's health, etc., has piled up and impacted me internally and externally.  I know people will read this and say I should have thought about this before I strayed from my relationship, but the fact is people do things for various reasons and I've already made my mistake, so there is no room for that talk anymore with me.  People can judge me, but it is what it is, and I'm trying to move on with my life but all the factors listed above make it difficult, and maybe that's my punishment for the wrong that I've committed.  Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a mental health thread.  
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
You're welcome.

I did feel comfortable about not having NGU for a while.  I stopped looking for discharge as much and there were even a few days where I did not think about it at all.  However, the discharge was still present at times and, as you know, its just about impossible to ignore.  Any attempt to research it only leads back to STDs.  And then, a couple of weeks ago, I had a couple of instances of a split urine stream, a couple of slightly painful urinations (which went away) and then my prostate area started tingling.  It felt like a cell phone vibration.

This is when I submitted my 6th urine sample to my urologist.  It was taken first thing in the morning and with the first of the urine. It came back negative for any sign of infection.  Though I had an appointment with the urologist scheduled for four days later, he told me there is nothing urological going on with you and you should follow up with your PCP.  I was not satisfied with that evaluation and made an appointment for my PCP, though I know he will be no help, for next week.  I also set up an appointment for a different urologist, but can't get in until next month.

I agree that having the symptoms makes it just about impossible to "just move on".

My wife has never told me of any symptoms.  But we have not had sex in quite a while due to my anxiety.  She has had a couple of yeast infections since my exposure, which are probably unconnected but increase my anxiety nonetheless.

To be honest with you, a lot of the time I logically accept that I do not have NGU.  I am not worried at all about chlamydia, for some reason I can accept those negative tests results, especially when combined with Dr. Hook stating in 100s of threads that it is not spread orally.  If I were you, I would stop worrying about chlamydia.  Though, yes, I totally know easier said than done.  Testing for it is really good though, not much chance of false negatives.  

Repeated testing of my urine shows no sign of infection.  Dr. Hook and my first urologist indicate that that is enough evidence to prove NGU. Add on top of that well over a month of levaquin, and it makes logical sense that there is no STD problem. I don't know why I can't accept that, beyond anxiety and the discharge.  The timing of my infidelity and this discharge is just too coincidental to me.

I don't know what it will take to convince me unfortunately.  There must be some test to show just what the discharge is...Cowper's gland fluid? Prostatic fluid?  Plain old mucous? I just can't get an answer to that.

I would also like to be reassured that even if it is NGU that there will be no health effects, or even symptoms in my wife.

Like I said, we're in the same boat.  It sucks...a lot.  I'm always anxious and distracted.  I get very little pleasure out of life, it is *always* in the back of my mind.  I find myself yelling at my kids more, and its just horrible.  My business is suffering too since I can't seem to care enough to return calls, do my work, or whatever.  I can't even make plans with my friends.

Hang in there though, that's all we can do.  I will for sure let you know of anything further that I learn, and I hope you do the same.  I understand you didn't want to make this a mental health thread, but in all reality there's a good chance that is what is going on with both of us.  If it wasn't for the discharge....
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
wow, I know the feelings.  It sounds like you're describing my life.  

I know what you mean about moving on with life and feeling confident that you don't have anything.  You just can't do it when you're still experiencing symptoms.  I know I didn't have these issues prior to my encounter, so it seems there is still something wrong with me.  In addition, everything I'm reading says to continue to see your health care provider if symptoms persist.  

So when you say you haven't had sex in quite a while due to anxiety, is she pressing you as to where and why this anxiety is coming up?  My wife and I had a very active sex life, but now it's difficult for me.  Although I don't have any ED issues, I find I don't have the urge and I don't get the same pleasure because it's in the back of my mind during sex.  

Also, what does your wife say about your repeated trips to the doc?  My wife would wonder what the heck is going on with my health if I went so often.    

Much like you, I do not get much pleasure out of life, my work product has been suffering, etc.  It has been a lonely and miserable  life since I contracted this infection.  Thanks for keeping me informed.  If I find anything I will share it with you as well.  
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
We have never had an extremely active sex life, but yes, she is bringing up sex. A number of years ago I had some prostatitis issues.  Most of my current "problems" can be tied to that.I don't think I can hold out much longer on the sex thing.

Its so odd. Logically, I don't think any infection can hide from 6+ UAs, considering the symptoms being present.  But I can't get any other answers, so frustrating.  Dr. Hook thinks that the UAs are enough, but Dr. Hansfield often says that UAs will often be normal.

I wonder if anyone else has some insight?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hmmm.....I've been doing quite bit of research and there seems to be conflicting information.  Dr. Hook and Dr. Hansfield seem to feel there isn't much research out there to determine if nonchlamydia nongonoccal NGU is harmful to a sex partner.  However, there seems to be a lot of research on Ureaplasma and Mycoplasma, which are believed to be the main causes of this infection.  From what I'm reading it's widely believed that these bacteria are just as harmful and can cause complications and adverse health problems in women.  They are also very difficult to kill, therefore extended treatments of antibiotics are usually required or you run the risk of transmitting it to your partner.  So it appears these bacteria or just as dangerous as the chlamydia and gonorrhea type NGU.  

In defense of Dr Hook and Hansfield, they do mention these bacteria and they do say it's best that both partners be treated.  

google nonchlamydia nongonoccal urethritis and you will find a ton of information.  I'm sure you probably already have done this and I'm not trying to increase your anxiety, but perhaps this is the reason we are still experiencing symptoms.  I have only done one round of doxy for 10 days, so maybe I need a longer treatment.  I'm not sure.  

Regarding your UA's, were they testing for the bacteria listed above?  Apparently it's difficult to test for and requires sophisticated testing methods not commonly available, therefore many doctors just treat with antibiotics and do not try to test for these bacteria.  I'm no doctor, just recounting what I've read.  
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
The UAs look for the presence of white blood cells in the urine, an indicator of infection.  They don't look for any specific bacteria.  NGU diagnosis requires the presence of a certain amount of WBCs.  This is why I can sometimes convince myself that I don't have an infection.  I've had at least 6 of these done since December and all were clear.
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
Also, from what I read, both Dr's are not sure that Mycoplasma or Ureaplasma can be acquired through an oral exposure...but they believe it does not occur.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
This is most comprehensive piece of reading material I've come accross.  It appears these can be acquired from oral exposue.  

http://healthplanet.wordpress.com/category/ureaplasma-infection/
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Also, is the presence of white blood cells indicative of Mycoplasma or Ureaplasma?  I'm not sure that they can tell if these are present by looking at WBC count.  From what I'm reading, it requires sohpisticated testing to verify if mycoplasma and ureaplasma is present and WNC count does not always give an indication of these being present.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
In addition.....accoding to the link I sent you, mycoplasma is becoming resistant to doxy, which doesn't sound good for me.  
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
Have you considered asking the doctors your questions in the experts forum?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
As you can see, I'm pretty much driving myself crazy in the process of researching this stuff.  Indeed, it probably adds to my anxiety over the whole situation.  

I had a follow up visit with my doctor some time back and let him know I was having major anxiety issues and I'm probably just being more conscious of the area, but there are symptoms for sure.  He examined me and said everything looks fine and told me my risk of contracting something is low unless there were open sores in the mouth.  But how do you explain the lingering syptoms (symptoms)?  

I haven't asked a question in forum because I don't want the charge to show up on my credit card statement or anything like that.  The wife and I share the finances so she would wonder what's up with the charge.  I know, this sounds like a lame reason, but that's the reason I've resisted.  
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
The internet is full of sometimes misleading information, and much of it tends to be alarmist in regards to STDs.  I stay away from searching the internet and stick to here.  Ironic, I know, considering how I am having trouble accepting what Dr. Hook has told me, but there it is.

I would recommend trying to find a way to ask the doctors here a question, it may help.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Yes, some things on the net do tend to be alarmist, that's why I stopped concentrating on a lot of the public information and outreach stuff.  It all assumes NGU of the chlamydia type, which is not what I have.  Therefore the information isn't that relevent.  The link I pasted above is the best thing I've come accross.  Here is another active thread on the topic.  

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Need-opinion-on--NGU/show/1515493
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
I guess I'm not totally sure.  It seems to conflict with Dr. Hook in my thread where he states:
"Yes, a negative UA is strong evidence that you do not have NGU."
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I re-read your post that you've had "Over 1 month of levaquin and a couple of weeks of cipro."  If indeed you have Mycoplasma, then these drugs may not have been effective.  Here is a link on the effectiveness of certain antibiotics against Mycoplasma.  

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol12no07/05-1558.htm

I've had Doxy and Azithro treatment and still symptoms are persisting.  The Azithro has helped somewhat, but I still have the urge to urinate, as well as the sharp shooting pain and some clear discharge.  Azithro decreased the sharp shooting pain, but that's it.  I'm trying to get my GP to prescribe Moxifloxacin but he doesn't seem to anxious to help at this point.  I believe he's a little upset that I'm diagnosing myself.  He doesn't feel there is an infection based on the test results, but I've also read a urine WBC count will not reveal if Mycoplasma is present, which Dr. Hansfield has also confirmed many times.  You need a swab test done and specific testing for Mycoplasma.  However, my GP will not go to this length of testing because he think's I'm over reacting.  This is becoming very frustrating, but I'm sure I have a lot more insight than him on the subject of mycoplasma after all the research I've done.  I'm not saying I know more than him, but perhaps I'm a little more up to date on the current studies at this point.  

Perhaps you may want to try a different antibiotic and see if you can get a swab test done.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Have you had intercourse with your wife yet or are you still hesitant?  
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
Yes, we had sex this weekend.  There is really nothing else I can do about it.  Except try to trust Dr. Hook and the urologist I saw.

Regarding MG: Infectious urethritis is defined by WBC  Any infectious cause of it will be associated with increased WBC.  I know that a UA may not be as good as a swab, but I've now had 6 of them that have been totally negative for WBC.  I would doubt that it would be missed by 6, especially in the presence of symptoms.

As for antibiotics for MG: perhaps levaquin would not be adequate, but I took a higher dose for a longer time than in that report you linked to.  The report indicates that symptoms improved on levaquin and then came back later, indicating at least an inhibiting  activity vs. MG.  My symptoms didn't really decrease if I think about it.

I just got put on Celexa for anxiety.  I recommend looking for ways to deal with your anxiety, as I am working on mine.  Chances are good we're both fine!
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/NGU/show/1507516

Thread from April of this year:

"No STD experts test people for mycoplasma or ureaplasma except in research settings.  They probably are never transmitted by oral sex; their role in NGU and other problems remains uncertain; and for the most part they appear to be entirely harmless organisms that are simply normal in many person's genital tracts.  The websites that offer them are taking advantage of people's anxeities.  Don't let them suck you in."
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for passing this on, I believe I did read this thread.  It's kind of confussing to me because while Dr Hansfield says that, it's really strange that in other threads I've read, he does say that NGU is cause either by chlamydia or MG.  When unprotected oral is recieved, typically chlamydia isn't the cause but other bacteria, noteably MG, is the cause, but some times the cause is never known.  He does seem to contradict himself at times when he says it's probably harmless, but then other times he says both partners need to be treated to ensure no chance of re-infection.  This doesn't make a lot of sense to me that he would state that MG is normal in the genital tract and could be harmless, but then states that both partners need treatment just to be sure.  I've been looking for research and things that have been published within the last year because older studies indicate that a strong link between health issues and MG hasn't been made.  Current studies suggest MG is indeed harmful to male and female health although the exact extent is unknown.  In addition, Azithro has a high failure rate (25%-30%) against MG, which may explain recurrent NGU.  That's just my 2 cents.  

I agree with you that anxiety is high and I should look into something for that.  Thanks for your reply and comments.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I have the exact same situation as both of you.  I have posted many times. Dr Hansfield dissmissed my concerns.  I went 14 months being told over and over that there was nothing wrong, until I started getting weird symptoms all over my body.   Headaches, stiff neck, eye pain, stabbing pains occasionally in my stomach, penis pain, bowel issues, joint and muscle pain, fatigue.  hansfeld and all the "experts" said it was not a STD issue.

  Well, in research and proper testing, I found I had contracted Mycoplasma Fermentens Incognitus, Borrelia Burgdorfer bacteria (Lymes) and Mycoplasma Genitalia.  I contaracted these after finding out that most Gulf War vets and Lymes patients have these same co-infections along with Bartonella, Babesia, Erlichia, etc.  Soldiers have been infected either by vaccines or bioagents in the gulf region and are passing these on to their spouses/girlfriends.  The girlfriends are passing it on to other males/ repeat the cycle over and over.  I'm not a gulf war vet, or a soldier.  Understand?

  This is the next STD that the "normal" doctors have never seen.  There is no Labcorp test or Quest.  There are several labs around the country that are able to culture this bacteria by propogating it.  Mycoplasmas are NOTORIOUSLY slow growing.  Plus, your body will not make antibodies to these bacteria/fungal infections.  They are INTRACELLULAR bacterial/fungal infections.  The labs have to use a special flourescent staining technique and DNA sequencing to find out EXACTLY what types of  Myco/Mico plasmas are involved.

  Your best bet is to NOT get answers here from some here that have never seen this type of disease.   I will give you an example:

  I spoke to a woman whose husband was a MP.  He "came down with" a giloblastoma.  His best friend (an MP) contracted the EXACT SAME TYPE of giloblastoma.  They both died fro this brain cancer.  Now both wives have medical issues including Mycoplasma Fermentans Incognitus, Myco Genitalium and Lymes.  And the doctors are telling you this is is not a STD.  That is unconceiveable.  They are finding the bacterias in all human body fluids, including semen and vag fluids.  Why would this not be?  

  Any expert want to refute this?  Yes, the Mycoplasma Fermentans bacteria is in its true form innocuous, but not the M Fermentans Incognitus.  I'll stack my rescources and literature against the experts here.  No goverment testing/research is being done here because some very damaging info might come out for some group or country or agency.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
  BTW, all my previous posts on this subject have been removed for some strange reason.  I wonder how long it will be before this "dissapears".
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Here's a quote from a military testing site:  

The Gulf War Mycoplasma Study showed that nearly all the Gulf War veterans who tested positive for mycoplasma infections were positive for Mycoplasma fermentans. Mycoplasma genitalium was also found and a very small percentage tested positive for Mycoplasma pneumoniae.

We recommend that all Gulf War veterans also get tested for: uranium poisoning from exposure to depleted uranium, antibodies to experimental vaccine adjuvants such as squalene, and if there has been any exposure to organophosphate pesticides or sarin nerve gas get tested for the blood enzyme, paraoxonase.

In addition, Veterans have experience long term side effects from prescription drugs such as:
pyridostigmine bromide, given to troops to protect against nerve gas, and the antimalarial drug Lariam (mefloquine).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

These are from leading researchers, not someone trying to "suck you in".  Your symptoms will get worse if untreated and you need to keep an eye on your spouses/childrens health for any unexplained issues that dont seem to go away.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
oh, btw, these Mycoplasmas can "flip themselves inside out" and protect themseleves with a biofilm (research that) hence the high failure rate w/ Azithromiacin.  These types of drugs (Zithromax, Minycycline, etc) disrupt the ability of the bacteria to replicate. The mycos are very slow growing and they do not divide exponentionally (explosive growth) like standard bacteria sometimes dividing every 4-7 days or longer.. (one reason they are hard to culture)  The Mycos protect themselves from large dosing of ABX with this biofilm hence the higher failure rate.  Experts here can check my facts.  Biofilms DO exist.  That is one reason for chronic persistant illnesses.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
You have presented quite a case and a lot of information.  I do not dispute any of it and it sounds like you may be onto something here.  

One thing to keep in mind, is the "experts" or doctors here cannot say very much on the subject.  There hasn't been substantial research for them to go on record with some of this stuff.  I've read a lot of research, but everything I read concludes in the same manner, stating that "more research needs to be done on the subject."  Thus far, nothing has been issues by the CDC or any other large health organization that classifies Mycoplasma Genitalium as an STD or something that should be screened for.  However, based on the all the reading I have done, this seems to be a very dangerous bacteria that can cuase adverse health problems and has the ability to spread very rapidly and easily (via unprotected oral, vaginal, and anal sex, and some times through contact with sex toys or hands that have been touching vaginal fluids).    If you have read through a lot of the posts on this web site regarding NGU, many men on here have contracted NGU from sex workers, massage parlors, or escorts.  That is very telling, that this disease is very easy to spread and is rampant throughout the sex worker community.    

You're correct, Biofilms do exist.  This can be seen with bacteria in the mouth.  Some bacteria of the mouth are immune to mouth wash, unless their bio film is broken either through scraping, brushing, or flossing.  This is a known fact.  

Azithromicyne seems to have a high failure rate against MG, as found in studies.  However, Moxifloxacin seems to have better results against fighting this bacteria, but this is a very potent antibiotic and can have severe side effects that can cause lasting damage to the body.  I will say this about Moxifloxacin - It gave me instant relief with in hrs, all symptoms were gone, but by the end of day two, symptoms began returning.  Not all at once, but one at a time, here and there.  I do not believe the course of Moxifloxacin will work since symptoms are returning.  I'm not sure what else to do after this.  

I have not read any research on the complications that gulf war vets are having with mycoplasma, but I may begin looking into it.  I have been focusing on M genitalium as an STI and have only searched for research on that subject.  Thank you for providing more information, I will look into it.  

You said you have gone 14 months with these symptoms?  Have you had any successful treatment or are you still struggling with this?  How were you tested?  
Blank
1318465_tn?1340571541
Hello again, guys.

ewford: your symptoms for 14 months are NOT STD related, "Headaches, stiff neck, eye pain, stabbing pains occasionally in my stomach, penis pain, bowel issues, joint and muscle pain, fatigue."

NGU fool:   as far as what Dr. Handsfield has said, "NGU is cause either by chlamydia or MG.  When unprotected oral is recieved, typically chlamydia isn't the cause but other bacteria, noteably MG, is the cause, but some times the cause is never known".    

Just to clarify, yah the likely cause of NGU in about 30% of cases is chlamydia, and then in another 30% of cases its caused by a bunch of other bacteria ... so then Dotcors will treat it.  With best hopes it goes away.   It took 1 month for my NGU to go away after treatment (Azithro), and read up extensively as you guys have.   Then I found out I was more prone to gential (genital) bacterial infections so I stopped having sex.   And I don't like to have unprotected sex as it irriates my urethra like what happend a couple weeks ago.  I expalin it to my girlfriend that when I have unprotected sex it almost always irriates my urethra.  I did experience a couple symtpoms like tinggling, urinating alot, slight discharge after urinating recently after unprotected sex; But now I am completely fine.   This is why you need to give it a couple weeks so see if this mysterious disease cures itself.  If not continue to work with a urologist on it.    

Are you still having symptoms?  I sure hope not.    Best of luck with this, I know its kinda frustrating not knowing but the your main goal should be to get better physically and physcologically.  Again, you did NOT infect your wife and you're going to be fine.  

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for your response.  I have a few questions for you since you brought up your own bout of NGU, if you dont' mind.

1.  what did your azithro treatment consist of?  Dosage and length of treatment?  
2.  I'm a middle aged guy, and I've never been prone to NGU, and I've had a lot of sex, protected and unprotected.  Are you suggesting I may be continuing to have symptoms because I'm predisposed to genital bacterial infections?
3.  during the month it took to resolve your issue, did you have unprotected sex with anyone?

Yes, I'm still having symptoms, that was the point of this post.  It's been more than a couple weeks that you suggested and multiple antibiotic treatments with no resolution.  There has only been slight improvement when I began Azithro, and then a few days later symptoms returned.  With Moxiflox my symptoms cleared up, only to return a few days later.  So you can see why this post continues at length, there hasn't been a resolution of symptoms for myself or bigwreck, and now ewford has come forward to say he's experiencing the same symptoms.  Although his symptoms are far beyond anything I have, he is still experiencing them after over 14 months and mutiple treatments.  

Yes, this has been very frustrating and I'm sure this post is beginning to generate a lot of attention.  I'm happy for the people who have been cured of this terrible infection, but as for myself and bigwreck, this has been nothing but a living hell for us.  If you dont' have a wife or kids, you can go on with life and get treatment without having to worry about anyone else, but if you're like myself and bigwreck, you worry constantly because there are other people involved and the thought of losing everything you hold dear to yourself (family, wife) is devastating and depressing.  I do appreciate you sharing your experience with us and the comments you have provided, but the fact remains that we still have symptoms and we are still searching for a way to get better.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Right.....and my penis pain is not related with a tingle in my scrotum.  Once again you are overlooking that.  there were over 23 KNOWN genital affecting agents used as bioagents during the gulf wars and soldiers are experiencing these issues now.  Go look and see who many posts are like mine that you and others have dissmissed.   Lymes disease/ Mycoplasma Fermentans Incog and M. Genitalium DO EXIST.  You just have not done enough research to be aware of it.  Tell me why the CDC and IDSA have no information about them avail.  If you were hiding something, you would certainly not post it.

  Please tell me why as well Govt biowarfare labs are studying ovarian cancer.  Why are Gulf War spouses and Lyme spouses experiencing Hysterectomies.  This IS an STD.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Here is a quote

"Many of the symptoms are similar to AIDS because they are both immuno- suppressive and attack the immune system. Most victims will have half to two-thirds of these symptoms (some more severe than others). Wives married to GWI victims are likely to get the disease via sex and other close contact, and their symptoms can even include cervical cancer, ovarian cysts, ovarian tumors, endometriosis, painful intercourse, chlamydia, and herpes. About 90% of the wives of veterans who are sick with GWI are now complaining of these symptoms."

And

  "99.9% of the medical doctors in America can't recognize GWI, don't believe it even exists because of the government and medical establishment saying it doesn't exist, would have no idea how to test for it and even less idea how to treat it. Most alternate medical practitioners are in the same boat although many of them would try detoxification and immune system therapy which would be helpful. These are answers (if the disease is not too far advanced) both in the tradition (mainline) medical area and in the alternate" medicine field which will be discussed in Section VI below. If you or a family member reading this report are discouraged at this point, turn to Section VI on Methods of Treatment before continuing].

  ^^Sounds like thats sexually transmitted to me^^.  Bumps on my penis, sore skin, tingling in groin, painful urination.  Leading to an autoimmune illness just like Syphillis (syphilis). But your RPR test will be NEG Sure sounds like a STD to me.  This is something new, and I think it's been engineered to be more virulent.  And if you think the Gov't would never do such a thing, go back and look at the Tuskeegee Experiment.

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I believe the CDC does have information on M. Genitalium.  I think I saw something that was dated 2011, so there is current information.  They do know it's a problem, but the issue is lack of reliable and accessible diagnostics.  As you know, it's very difficult to detect MG and must be done via PCR.  Still they are reluctant to classify this as a known STD because.....you guessed it, more studies need to be done.  

Like I said before, from doing your own research you can see this is a major problem and epidemic.  However, the government is slow to put themselves out there and actually state this is a known STD and that doctors should check for it.  Unfortunately the private sector works a lot more quickly than government.  Part of the issue seems to be a lack of funding for large scale studies on the subject.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Please tell me your clinical expertise and training.  More often than not, I have seen some experts here say "you have nothing to worry about" and in reality they have ALOT to worry about.  Is it because the "experts" are complicit or is it they are blind to all of the people that have unexplained medical issues that are sexually related.  If these illnesses are causing stillbirths and deformed children, you have to demand more research.  I don't believe a darn thing the IDSA has to say or the CDC in regards to this.  How can you get published papers and peer reviewed papers when the govt denies the existance of something.  And yet the evidence is there. The govt denied AIDS as well, look where THAT got us.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I misstated that I went 14 months before symptoms.  I had a sore penis, drip, gonad pain, clear discharge.  Those were the FIRST symptoms.  The others came along and they are all Syphillis (syphilis) symptoms, but my 3 RPR tests were neg as were all my tests during that period.  But Lyme/Mycoplasma symptoms are what I have, and I tested pos for them from the "sites" you call missleading.  You can't tell me my symptoms are in my head.  That is exactly the reason the Dr's are missdiagnosing this.  

  Eight diff doctors wanted to give me 8 diff meds for symptoms when in reality this is an intracellular bacterial chronic infection.  
Blank
1318465_tn?1340571541
1.  1 gram single doze.  Treated same day, and I ate something later (I went to Mc Donalds)
2.  Yes.
3.  No.   In fact I become abstinent.   I even stopped masturbating for 3 months  --it was a spiritual growth for me.

ewford: My clinical training.... if that really matters to you: I am a certified phlebotomist, was in medical school, now I am on a leave of absence.   I have a degree in biomedical Engineering, but none of this matters.    Most of what I know is based on my own personal experiences.  But you seem to be talking about political propaganda and governmental complex I am uninterested in, and will get us know where on these forms.  I am here to help people on what are the next medical steps to take to get better; not debate on weather something exist or not or if there is a governmental conspiracy or not.  

Doctors say, "you have nothing to worry about" because, really mostly they don't, the experts are not blind to it, in fact they are looking at it from a long term perspective, in that in the end the condition should resolve itself.    True STD's MAY cause still births...  but really really, the main cause stillbirths and deformed children  is not NUG's and STDs, its genetic factors, environmental factors, fetal alcohol syndrome... drugs, mom being overweight etc.  The research is there, one is not expected to know everything as many doctors out there don't know everything; however lets not discredit them.  


NGU_Fool:
I don't know what else to say to you to help you, you appear to be doing the correct things.  In time you should get better.  

Here's a entree I wrote that I found has helped people:
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/221430/psychological-aspect-of-STDs-on-these-forums?personal_page_id=1411239  ;
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Jesse, i apologize if I came across that way.  I have studied and interviewed over 200 Gulf war soldiers/spouses and Lymes patients/spouses.  Overwhelmingly I have found the spouses infected suffering the same symptoms, with Hysterectomies and ovarian cysts being the norm.  Symptoms are exactly alike across the board.  When tested, all above tested pos for Mycoplasma Fermentans-Incognitus and Borrelia Burgdeferi which are blood borne pathogens.  Just too coincedental for me considering the birth defects that BOTH Lymes and GWI patients suffer.  There is almost NO research being done w/ only soldiers being recognized. Their spouses and Lymes patients /spouses are receiving NO help at ALL.  It's a tragedy.

I asked your "expert" status to find out what type of researcher you were and/or clinician.  most here feel if they get an opinion that has been given by an "expert" it is by an ACTUAL expert, not a voted one.  No offense.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi Jessy,

Thank you for the answers and the link.  I do believe a lot of what you're saying in regards to the mental aspect, but I do have symptoms that remain such as discharge and frequent urge to urinate.  These are unmistakable physical sypmtoms that I cannot get to go away.  The temporarily resolved with the start of each new antibiotic but then returned.  I will try to remain calm but as I said above, there is a lot at stake for me.  I want to get well and I want my family to stay together.  This is very difficult and emotionally draining on me.  Sorry to be such a pill
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
JessyJames and bigwreck

This is the reason I cannot accept that everything is fine with me.  The link details the struggle of a few men who are having the same issues as myself.  The thread is very long if you care to read it, but the gist of it is this:  a few men struggled for years with symptoms similar to what I have, and they went to countless doctors who told them they were fine.  Finally they had a PCR done that determined they were positive for a Mycoplasma infection.  They did not respond to treatment.  In addition, the thread is so long because countless other men chimed in saying they have the same issues and the doctors have told them the same things, but still they are having issues.  This thread spans over 2 years!!!!!  Mycoplasma infections seems to be our worst nightmare come true.

http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/showthread.php?s=977a2fd2154aae1b03262f18950583e8&t=32050
Blank
1318465_tn?1340571541
Hello again NGU_FOOL,

You don't have to apologize for bing a "pill" whatever that means, but it sounds negative.  * laughs * I don't think you're a "pill" at all.  Its okay we are here to help, well as much as we can.  However, it is getting nitty bitty gritty with details here, any further post made by me will be more of on my opinion, and you must remember I am not a physican, only someone who has been there (minus the wife and kids ---I understand your risk involved in all this).   Also, I'm afraid the moderators are going to step in any moment and cut this thread out.  I hope they don't  because, as you've seen many men suffer from this with no real known answers... and that was the purpose of second response to you with the article written by Dr. HHH himself.  I was hoping that though the ironic title of the article, "A few Answers; but mostly Questions", that it would shine some light on your conditions --yes including your wife.    I did not read the thread you've sent because the likely hood is probably that I have before.  

Heres what I think, just know that I've never given this advice out before as your case is particular.   The reason why I cured in a month from my non-chlamydia NGU, is because I abstained from sex altogether for 3 months.   I always use condoms.   I will bet you a nickel that if I have unprotected sex my symptoms will come back.   The difference between you and I, is yes you are married and no doubt are --in a continuum, having unprotected sex with your wife --exposing your inflammed urethra over and over not giving it "rest".     I know getting micoplasma for oral sex is a low risk as well.
Re-read the article link I sent that was titled, "A few Answers; but mostly Questions."

I will close with this, you probably did not developed that NGU from your exposure risk you initially asked about; noticible symptoms are probably coincidental.      Hey man, things happen for a Reason, I know that for sure.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I really do appreciate your comments.  It does help to discuss this issue.  

I do hope that you are wrong about the moderators stepping in, because this forum is for information purposes and as you said, there are many people out there still searching for answers.  The way I found MedHelp was through google searches on my condition, and I've learned a lot by reading the archives.  This thread brought bigwreck and I together to discuss many possibilities and It would be unfortunate if this thread is deleted.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hey bigwreck, you still around?  I sent you a message to your inbox
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
I'm still around.  I really don't have much to add though.  I go to see a urologist next week who can hopefully help me some.  I'm not sure what to ask him or how to approach the visit though.

I recently went a week with no symptoms, then this morning the discharge was back.

JJ2010:  You state: I will close with this, you probably did not developed that NGU from your exposure risk you initially asked about; noticible symptoms are probably coincidental.

How can discharge be coincidental?  Can you elaborate a bit?  Thanks.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
There is too much coincidence for this not to have occured due to my exposure.  Although I know Jessie means well, I can't believe these symptoms just appears out of no where and that they are persistent for months on end, even after antibiotic treatments.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi I'm in the same situation did you ever find a cure
Blank
Post a Comment
To
Blank
Weight Tracker
Weight Tracker
Start Tracking Now
STDs Community Resources
RSS Expert Activity
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
The 3 Essentials to Ending Emotiona...
Sep 18 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
Control Emotional Eating with this ...
Sep 04 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
Emotional Eating Control: How to St...
Aug 28 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
Top STDs Answerers
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
deksman2
Croatia
101028_tn?1348750963
Blank
gracefromHHP
PA
3149845_tn?1386354841
Blank
Life360
fort lauderdale, FL
580755_tn?1357673215
Blank
Vance2335
Buffalo, NY
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
Dallasfan
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
Stanislo
Philadelphia, PA