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Social Concerns and HSV
Good morning,
I’m a 34-year woman who was diagnosed with HSV 2 six months ago, the result of, what I thought to be, a low risk encounter, my first sexual contact after my husband passed away from cancer three years ago. My questions are a mixture of social and medical:
a) I can’t help but wonder if I’m being punished by a higher power. First, my husband develops cancer only two years after we married and died one and a half years later (he was only 37). Then, 2.5 years later I contract HSV 2 from the first guy I’m with after my husband (not even full intercourse). I’m cursed! Most women I know are married with small children, worried about baby strollers and mortgage payments; instead I am searching the medhelp site about HSV.
Based on your clinical/social observations, what are my REAL chances of finding someone who would accept me, and, go on to have a NORMAL sex life that doesn’t include constant hand-washing, religious condom use and fear about transmission? Don’t worry, you can level with me.
b) My initial outbreak was on the buttock and all recurrences have been on the same spot. It’s been very painful. I’m fearful of the implications of suppression. Is this a lifelong sentence to those blue pills?
c) Is it possible that I am only infected with the disease at the buttock (not the entire genital area) since it was my initial (and recurrences) outbreak site and I didn’t have sexual intercourse with the guy who passed this on to me?
d) I’ve read that most people who contract this disease tend towards substance abuse and promiscuity. I’m a post doc. (not doing well with her research now) with no history of drug use. I’ve only had three sexual partners, including my husband. I only had unprotected sex with my husband. Not sure what my question is. If I were 21 years old this would make better sense, but I am 34…Contracting HSV at this age is simply inexcusable on my part.
I’m drowning without a raft…Need some honest advice.
I’m a 34-year woman who was diagnosed with HSV 2 six months ago, the result of, what I thought to be, a low risk encounter, my first sexual contact after my husband passed away from cancer three years ago. My questions are a mixture of social and medical:
a) I can’t help but wonder if I’m being punished by a higher power. First, my husband develops cancer only two years after we married and died one and a half years later (he was only 37). Then, 2.5 years later I contract HSV 2 from the first guy I’m with after my husband (not even full intercourse). I’m cursed! Most women I know are married with small children, worried about baby strollers and mortgage payments; instead I am searching the medhelp site about HSV.
Based on your clinical/social observations, what are my REAL chances of finding someone who would accept me, and, go on to have a NORMAL sex life that doesn’t include constant hand-washing, religious condom use and fear about transmission? Don’t worry, you can level with me.
b) My initial outbreak was on the buttock and all recurrences have been on the same spot. It’s been very painful. I’m fearful of the implications of suppression. Is this a lifelong sentence to those blue pills?
c) Is it possible that I am only infected with the disease at the buttock (not the entire genital area) since it was my initial (and recurrences) outbreak site and I didn’t have sexual intercourse with the guy who passed this on to me?
d) I’ve read that most people who contract this disease tend towards substance abuse and promiscuity. I’m a post doc. (not doing well with her research now) with no history of drug use. I’ve only had three sexual partners, including my husband. I only had unprotected sex with my husband. Not sure what my question is. If I were 21 years old this would make better sense, but I am 34…Contracting HSV at this age is simply inexcusable on my part.
I’m drowning without a raft…Need some honest advice.
Our providers typically don't talk to us about herpes testing ( or that it's not being done on us when we ask for std testing ). Most folks aren't getting tested to know their status unless they get obvious symptoms ( and sometimes that's just when we get the herpes symptoms so obvious even a first year medical student can recognize them, not the more subtle signs we are more likely to get of herpes that should be leading to testing ). It's hard to tell when you picked it up and from whom sometimes. It can be with your very first sexual contact or it can be from someone in between even. There are always exceptions to the general rules- they are general rules because for the vast majority of folks, they are the rules. always someone who falls outside those parameters. could that be you? yes it could be. At this point you might never figure it out and what's important to know is what you have so with future partners you can take precautions to reduce their risk. It's good that your provider recognized the symptoms that led to you getting properly diagnosed. You can't take active measures to protect a partner unless you know what you have. Imagine if you had just been told it's a bug bite or something and never found out you had hsv2 so that you can take control of things? genital herpes is something you have, it's not who you are. You don't have to put up yellow caution tape within a 3 foot radius of yourself and consider yourself a walking biohazzard because of it either unless of course it makes for a really cool ( and sexy ) halloween party costume :) You can pop a pill or two a day and control it very well - much easier to deal with in a relationship than someone who is in their 30's and still can't manage their money, a drug addiction, ex spouses or even someone who still thinks that lazy is adorable and expects you to do it all for them. This is something that you can control for the most part. You can never get the risk down to zero for a partner but you can get it close.
This will get better I assure you :)
grace
This will get better I assure you :)
grace
Grace,
You just saved me with your comment. I''m drowning is a sea of sorrow of unimaginable proportions. I never imagined it possible to feel such grief. The HSV is compounding the loss of my husband a thousandfold, that's for sure. Thanks for your sweet concern and hope for the future. You sound doubtful about having contracted HSV from my most recent partner. I hope you are right. To have contracted it from a previous partner, like my husband, is far preferable than having contracted it from the most recent encounter. I know this sounds odd but its true. I'd rather have it from my husband than from anyone else.
You just saved me with your comment. I''m drowning is a sea of sorrow of unimaginable proportions. I never imagined it possible to feel such grief. The HSV is compounding the loss of my husband a thousandfold, that's for sure. Thanks for your sweet concern and hope for the future. You sound doubtful about having contracted HSV from my most recent partner. I hope you are right. To have contracted it from a previous partner, like my husband, is far preferable than having contracted it from the most recent encounter. I know this sounds odd but its true. I'd rather have it from my husband than from anyone else.
"what are my REAL chances of finding someone who would accept me, and, go on to have a NORMAL sex life that doesn’t include constant hand-washing, religious condom use and fear about transmission? Don’t worry, you can level with me. "
There is no reason to suspect that you won't find a partner who will accept your genital herpes. You can get the risk of transmission to an uninfected male down to 1%/year if you take daily suppressive therapy and use condoms. that's the same risk of you getting pregnant while on the pill with ideal use. I think we can all agree that a baby is much more of a complication than genital herpes is!! I know in my own experience, having had hsv2 for over 20 years now, only 2 partners have ever decided the risk was too much for them to take a chance with me. It really hasn't been a big issue. most of my friends with herpes, have never even been turned down once. You are an intelligent female and have very many things going for you even though right now you feel like you should be singing that song from "hee haw" about if it weren't for bad luck you'd have no luck at all. Don't allow yourself to think that now that you know you have hsv2, it'll keep you from finding a partner to spend your time with. 1 out of every 4 women in the US has hsv2 - it's very common.
Even though you potentially were the exception to the general rules about contracting genital herpes ( I assume you and your partner never had igg blood testing at the time of your lesion cultures? ), the odds of that happening again with you and any future hsv2 negative partners is incredibly slim.No need for any excessive handwashing - just wash your hands after using the bathroom. You can take daily suppressive therapy to further protect them. Your sex life will be completely normal except for if you have an ob or anything going genitally then you avoid sex. Even if you do nothing but avoid sex any time you have anything going on down yonder, your partner is still WAY more likely NOT to contract hsv2 from you. Anything over and above that you and your partner do just puts the odds more and more in his favor. don't let a fear of transmission to a partner consume you - odds always are that your partner won't contract it . of course convincing yourself of that is easier said than done.
hang in there - this is all new to you. Come visit us at the herpes forum here too. Lots and lots of posts there by others who are newly diagnosed and learning to deal with herpes.
grace
There is no reason to suspect that you won't find a partner who will accept your genital herpes. You can get the risk of transmission to an uninfected male down to 1%/year if you take daily suppressive therapy and use condoms. that's the same risk of you getting pregnant while on the pill with ideal use. I think we can all agree that a baby is much more of a complication than genital herpes is!! I know in my own experience, having had hsv2 for over 20 years now, only 2 partners have ever decided the risk was too much for them to take a chance with me. It really hasn't been a big issue. most of my friends with herpes, have never even been turned down once. You are an intelligent female and have very many things going for you even though right now you feel like you should be singing that song from "hee haw" about if it weren't for bad luck you'd have no luck at all. Don't allow yourself to think that now that you know you have hsv2, it'll keep you from finding a partner to spend your time with. 1 out of every 4 women in the US has hsv2 - it's very common.
Even though you potentially were the exception to the general rules about contracting genital herpes ( I assume you and your partner never had igg blood testing at the time of your lesion cultures? ), the odds of that happening again with you and any future hsv2 negative partners is incredibly slim.No need for any excessive handwashing - just wash your hands after using the bathroom. You can take daily suppressive therapy to further protect them. Your sex life will be completely normal except for if you have an ob or anything going genitally then you avoid sex. Even if you do nothing but avoid sex any time you have anything going on down yonder, your partner is still WAY more likely NOT to contract hsv2 from you. Anything over and above that you and your partner do just puts the odds more and more in his favor. don't let a fear of transmission to a partner consume you - odds always are that your partner won't contract it . of course convincing yourself of that is easier said than done.
hang in there - this is all new to you. Come visit us at the herpes forum here too. Lots and lots of posts there by others who are newly diagnosed and learning to deal with herpes.
grace
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
These questions have been answered. Reread my previous replies.
Thank you again Dr., I will follow your suggestions. One very last thing I wanted clarification on is, in light of the additional information I provided on the exposure (on genital to genital contact at all) and initial outbreak location, the buttocks, do you think it is possible that I only have the infection at that site, the buttocks? Or do you think this is a previously acquired infection from years ago, only now manifesting itself?
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Nobody ever said that HSV cannot be acquired by non-insertive sex, including manual contact. It's rare, but this might well explain your infection.
The large majority of people with genital herpes acclimate to their disease and in the long run it typically becomes a relatively minor nuisance. Getting to that point, however. often takes time. That's why I recommended some excellent educational resources. Also, if you followed the link to Westover Heights Clinic, the home page has a link to Terri's excellent book -- which is designed precisely to help people get to understanding and acceptance of genital herpes.
That will have to end this thread. I hope we have you started on a path to successful living with your herpes. Good luck.
The large majority of people with genital herpes acclimate to their disease and in the long run it typically becomes a relatively minor nuisance. Getting to that point, however. often takes time. That's why I recommended some excellent educational resources. Also, if you followed the link to Westover Heights Clinic, the home page has a link to Terri's excellent book -- which is designed precisely to help people get to understanding and acceptance of genital herpes.
That will have to end this thread. I hope we have you started on a path to successful living with your herpes. Good luck.
Thanks again, Dr.,
You are very kind person, indeed. I've spent the afternoon reading over the resources on offer. Many things about my situation are even less clear than before
I understand that an initial infection requires virus, friction and heat to take hold. And, for very obvious reasons, this most often takes place in the genital area. I also understand that mutual masturbation is not likely to transfer the virus, except in rare cases. However:
1) It's fairly clear the initial infection came from my most recent partner (the timing and severity of my symptoms, his positive status). However, what isn't quite clear to me is how it happened. We were only together sexually once and that time consisted of mutual masturbation and outercourse (he was wearing boxer shorts at all times). He did massage my buttocks, legs and vagina with a fair amount of intensity. However, at no time did our genitals rub directly together. I guess he likely had some virus on his hand (how I am not sure) and then it transferred to my buttocks? Although he did massage that area, it wasn't to the point of abrasion. Or, perhaps the virus took hold by his hand in my vagina and then the virus made it way through the nerve networks to the buttocks. What seems more likely?
2) Do most people with this condition eventually live their day-to-day lives without thinking about it all the time? Or does it always loom like a heavy weight? Have you seen normalcy in the midst of HSV?
You are very kind person, indeed. I've spent the afternoon reading over the resources on offer. Many things about my situation are even less clear than before
I understand that an initial infection requires virus, friction and heat to take hold. And, for very obvious reasons, this most often takes place in the genital area. I also understand that mutual masturbation is not likely to transfer the virus, except in rare cases. However:
1) It's fairly clear the initial infection came from my most recent partner (the timing and severity of my symptoms, his positive status). However, what isn't quite clear to me is how it happened. We were only together sexually once and that time consisted of mutual masturbation and outercourse (he was wearing boxer shorts at all times). He did massage my buttocks, legs and vagina with a fair amount of intensity. However, at no time did our genitals rub directly together. I guess he likely had some virus on his hand (how I am not sure) and then it transferred to my buttocks? Although he did massage that area, it wasn't to the point of abrasion. Or, perhaps the virus took hold by his hand in my vagina and then the virus made it way through the nerve networks to the buttocks. What seems more likely?
2) Do most people with this condition eventually live their day-to-day lives without thinking about it all the time? Or does it always loom like a heavy weight? Have you seen normalcy in the midst of HSV?
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Thanks for clarifying. Clearly you caught it from your new partner. Whether the initial symptomatic outbreak really was the first infection remains less clear and it remains possible there was a component of genital involvement. But maybe not. Yours might be a situation in which it would be helpful to test for genital asymptomatic viral shedding. This can be done by self collecting several swabs from your labia and vagina and having them tested by PCR (polymerase chain reaction) for HSV-2. Westover Heights Clinic sometimes has arranged this for patients in distant clinics; consider contacting them. (You would have to stop suppressive treatment for a couple of weeks before collecting the specimens.)
Thank you, Dr.,
Yes, it was diagnosed by viral culture, type 2. The partner has HSV 2, also diagnosed by viral culture. So, yes, I was infected by him. I've never had any genital problems beforehand and after one evening of semi-clothed mutual masturbation and outercourse I end up with a buttock lesions and terrible groin pain. The chances of having had it for at least three years, with no symptoms and then five days after sexual contact with a known carrier of the virus, ending up with lesions just seems way too impossible to be a prior infection. This just seems medically impossible.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks
Yes, it was diagnosed by viral culture, type 2. The partner has HSV 2, also diagnosed by viral culture. So, yes, I was infected by him. I've never had any genital problems beforehand and after one evening of semi-clothed mutual masturbation and outercourse I end up with a buttock lesions and terrible groin pain. The chances of having had it for at least three years, with no symptoms and then five days after sexual contact with a known carrier of the virus, ending up with lesions just seems way too impossible to be a prior infection. This just seems medically impossible.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the STD forum. I'm sorry to hear of both the loss of your husband and your apparent bad luck with your first post-marital sex partner. But maybe that luck wasn't as bad as it seems, as discussed below. Some of your questions are social more than medical, but I'll try to address the medical and prevention aspects.
You don't say how your genital herpes was diagnosed, which would be helpful. Do you know whether you are infected with HSV-2 or HSV-1? Recurrent herpes on or near the genitals, including buttock lesions, probably is HSV-2, but it would be good to know for certain.
It is improbable that your initial infection actually involved your buttock. Even your apparently first outbreak probably was in fact a recurrence. Genital herpes almost always is acquired directly in the genital area, typically the labia minor or vaginal opening in women. That's because infection usually requires the virus to be massaged into the tissues, so that initial infection is pretty much limited to those areas that get the maximum friction during sex. And research shows that 40% of people with apparent initial herpes in fact have been infected for months or years. The initial infection is often entirely without symptoms. Or, if you ever had a past problem with unexplained genital pain, discomfort, sores, etc, that might have been the initial infection -- even if the symptoms were very mild.
For these reasons, it is not necessarily true that you caught herpes from your new partner. You might have been infected for years, perhaps even before your marriage; or perhaps you caught it from your husband. Have you discussed this with your new partner? Does he have known genital herpes? Has he been tested to see if he is infected with HSV-2? If not, that should be done -- if you still are with him, or at least in touch with him. If he has a positive HSV-2 blood test, he could have been the source of your infection, or he could have caught it from you. If negative, it will show he was not the source of your infection.
Having said all that, the rest of this response assumes you indeed have genital herpes, very likely due to HSV-2. To your specific questions:
a) You're not "cursed", as you undoubtedly realize. If indeed you were infected by your new partner, it was just bad luck, nothing more. In the US, around 20% of adults have HSV-2; most don't know it and therefore are not necessarily to blame when transmission occurs. If and when you follow my advice above to ask your partner to be HSV tested, it should be done with sensitivity in case he isn't aware, and without blame or accusation. (Of course this might be different if it turns out he knew he had herpes and never said anything about it.) As for chances of finding a new partnership, herpes can make it more difficult but by no means impossible. This is one of those social issues beyond the scope of this forum. However, excellent resources are available; see at the end of this reply.
b) There are few if any "implications" of suppressive therapy. The drugs are extremely safe, with no side effects for the vast majority of people, even after years of treatment. Aside from the cost, this really shouldn't be an issue for you.
c) As discussed above, you should assume your initial infection was genital, and that even without symptoms the virus is periodically present on or around the genital area and transmissible by sex.
d) All STDs are more common in populations like you describe. However, the difference is minor for herpes. Genital herpes is extremely common across all socioeconomic groups. You are not at all alone; plenty of people with genital herpes have had sexual lifestyles just like yours. As for "inexcusable", that's nonsense. In fact, herpes tends to occur MORE often in slightly older sexually active persons than younger ones; the rates of new infection are higher at age 25-35 than at 15-25.
Here are some resources for you. First are links to three other threads on this forum that address genital herpes symptoms, transmission, and diagnosis. Then there are links to the American Social Health Association and the Westover Heights Clinic of Portland, OR. They have excellent information, including personal counseling by phone (at ASHA), books and other written materials about living with herpes. (Disclosure: Dr. Hook and I are on ASHA's board of directors, and WHC is owned and run by Terri Warren, moderator of MedHelp's herpes forum.) Finally, MedHelp's herpes community forum is an excellent resource about the social and relationship aspects of herpes, moderated by highly experienced herpes counselors.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1090378
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1129740
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1137092
http://www.ashastd.org
http://www.westoverheights.com
Sorry for such a long response, but I think you'll find it helpful. I'm also going to bookmark it for future use in responding to other similar questions on this forum.
Best wishes-- HHH, MD
You don't say how your genital herpes was diagnosed, which would be helpful. Do you know whether you are infected with HSV-2 or HSV-1? Recurrent herpes on or near the genitals, including buttock lesions, probably is HSV-2, but it would be good to know for certain.
It is improbable that your initial infection actually involved your buttock. Even your apparently first outbreak probably was in fact a recurrence. Genital herpes almost always is acquired directly in the genital area, typically the labia minor or vaginal opening in women. That's because infection usually requires the virus to be massaged into the tissues, so that initial infection is pretty much limited to those areas that get the maximum friction during sex. And research shows that 40% of people with apparent initial herpes in fact have been infected for months or years. The initial infection is often entirely without symptoms. Or, if you ever had a past problem with unexplained genital pain, discomfort, sores, etc, that might have been the initial infection -- even if the symptoms were very mild.
For these reasons, it is not necessarily true that you caught herpes from your new partner. You might have been infected for years, perhaps even before your marriage; or perhaps you caught it from your husband. Have you discussed this with your new partner? Does he have known genital herpes? Has he been tested to see if he is infected with HSV-2? If not, that should be done -- if you still are with him, or at least in touch with him. If he has a positive HSV-2 blood test, he could have been the source of your infection, or he could have caught it from you. If negative, it will show he was not the source of your infection.
Having said all that, the rest of this response assumes you indeed have genital herpes, very likely due to HSV-2. To your specific questions:
a) You're not "cursed", as you undoubtedly realize. If indeed you were infected by your new partner, it was just bad luck, nothing more. In the US, around 20% of adults have HSV-2; most don't know it and therefore are not necessarily to blame when transmission occurs. If and when you follow my advice above to ask your partner to be HSV tested, it should be done with sensitivity in case he isn't aware, and without blame or accusation. (Of course this might be different if it turns out he knew he had herpes and never said anything about it.) As for chances of finding a new partnership, herpes can make it more difficult but by no means impossible. This is one of those social issues beyond the scope of this forum. However, excellent resources are available; see at the end of this reply.
b) There are few if any "implications" of suppressive therapy. The drugs are extremely safe, with no side effects for the vast majority of people, even after years of treatment. Aside from the cost, this really shouldn't be an issue for you.
c) As discussed above, you should assume your initial infection was genital, and that even without symptoms the virus is periodically present on or around the genital area and transmissible by sex.
d) All STDs are more common in populations like you describe. However, the difference is minor for herpes. Genital herpes is extremely common across all socioeconomic groups. You are not at all alone; plenty of people with genital herpes have had sexual lifestyles just like yours. As for "inexcusable", that's nonsense. In fact, herpes tends to occur MORE often in slightly older sexually active persons than younger ones; the rates of new infection are higher at age 25-35 than at 15-25.
Here are some resources for you. First are links to three other threads on this forum that address genital herpes symptoms, transmission, and diagnosis. Then there are links to the American Social Health Association and the Westover Heights Clinic of Portland, OR. They have excellent information, including personal counseling by phone (at ASHA), books and other written materials about living with herpes. (Disclosure: Dr. Hook and I are on ASHA's board of directors, and WHC is owned and run by Terri Warren, moderator of MedHelp's herpes forum.) Finally, MedHelp's herpes community forum is an excellent resource about the social and relationship aspects of herpes, moderated by highly experienced herpes counselors.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1090378
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1129740
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1137092
http://www.ashastd.org
http://www.westoverheights.com
Sorry for such a long response, but I think you'll find it helpful. I'm also going to bookmark it for future use in responding to other similar questions on this forum.
Best wishes-- HHH, MD
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
