Cessation of breathing upon entering deep sleep cycle

[frogturtle]

For the past 2 1/2 years I've been experiencing strange problems when falling into a deep sleep.  My body stops breathing but it almost feels as if my tongue, throat and sometimes chest are the culprit.  I may snort when it happens.  It wakes me right up and then I have to try again to go back.  It is very frustrating and causes me a lot of anxiety.  The strange thing is there are times (rare these days) where it didn't happen at all.  I went an entire summer where it did not happen.  When it first began, it was very random and I did not think much of it.  I was also not stressed but when it started to make it very hard to fall asleep or go back to sleep after getting up to use the bathroom, it began to consume me.  I couldn't make a connection at the beginning to anxiety because I felt very calm and relaxed. Since it all started, I began seeing a neurologist who has sent me for a sleep study.  I could not sleep the first time so on the second try, they gave me Ambien and the problem did not happen. Since I know when the problem does occur, I left that test knowing they would not find anything.  My doctor at that point still not knowing the cause, prescribed Klonopin which seemed to help for a time but now I'm waking up early and upon trying to go back, the breathing episodes will occur.  My neurologist has said that the body will get used to Klonopin and so we have to find out the cause and another way to deal with it.  So he prescribed a saliva test to check cortisol levels and then he said we'll go from there.  Anyway, I'm quite sleep deprived most days and fear this will lead to my demise!  I asked my doctor if he could prescribe a medication to help breathing but he was 100% sure I do not have central sleep apnea.  My gastro doctor checked for apnea when he performed my endososcpy saying he saw no signs.  Even though I was under with Propofonal (spell?) he says he would normally see it.  So I'm at a loss and very frustrated.  it is hard to live this way day to day.   I've always dealt with insomnia (20 years) but had pretty much overcome it and was doing very well until this new physical symptom that interferes.  I 'm writing with hopes that you may see something we aren't.  I am not overweight and I don't have anything enlarged in my mouth to cause OSA. Thank you!  

[Jerry_NJ]

I was diagnosed with mild obstructive sleep apnea in a Sleep Study.  I am aver 6'5" and weighted 240 and more.  I lost about 20 pounds and the mild OSA stopped, by my measure.  I have not tested to check.  The Phonologist suggest just doing an overnight at home recording Oximeter test could be used to verify the weight loss is sufficient.

I may purchase a recording sleep device to add to my home medlab set of equipment.  I have a finger Oximeter and checking when I wake up at night to go to the bathroom generally shows my oxygen saturation level in the high 90% range.  This testing at home is what led me to seek help and to eventually undergo an expensive and through doctor supervised Sleep Study.

I think OSA is a widely undiagnosed illness, and indeed dangerous.  Years ago an engineer reporting to me died in his sleep at about the age of 60. He was overweight and his death was caused by apnea.

[ill13632]

yes OSA CSA is a terrible killer disease and can damage your brain and give you diabetes and heart damage, arrythmias.  AHI of 61 is really high my O2 was 75% at the sleep lab and I wake up with headaches and exhaustion and heavy fog.  
The klonopin helps a lot, it doesn't seem like it messes up your memory and diamox may help.  has anyone found a drug or machine that helps?
I even tried trach but was trached incorrectly on a shiley 6

[tom_h]

Interestingly, Klonopin is often prescribed for Centrals.  

Your symptoms sound so familiar.  I too use to feel my throat begin to collapse as I drifted off to sleep.  I could actually hear my own snoring for a short time, but I was so tired there was nothing I could do about it.  My snoring was more like a constant gasping.  It could be heard from a floor away which is where my wife often slept when it started which was almost nightly. At her urging, I had a sleep study done.  My Apnea Hypopnea Index (AHI) was 61.  My pulse ox was dipping into the low 80's throughout the night, and a blood test revealed secondary polycythemia, or blood overly rich in red blood cells from the low oxygen levels.  CPAP immediately corrected my OSA and slowly my blood returned to normal levels.

If you find yourself bolting up in the middle of the night taking large gasps of air, you may perhaps have some form of Sleep Apnea.  OSA is a slow killer, and often leads to a debilitating demise. Keep at this for a solution!

[frogturtle]

I may try that.  My tongue is moving toward the roof of my mouth and I think somehow, a suction is being created like it is pressing so hard against it that I either snore or I can't breath.  I don't know if it is some kind of hypnic jerk but it doesn't happen quick and stop.  It stays there.  It is maddening! I may try some dry mouth remedies just to see since I am so desperate.  I don't understand why my tongue presses so hard and the upper part of my mouth seems to go with it.  It is so very strange and not typical apnea symptoms at all.  Thank you for replying and for trying to help me.

[Jerry_NJ]

Tongue, what is it "doing"?  Dry mouth almost burns the tongue in my experience.  I suffer from that some but it due to nasal congestion that means I have to breath through my mouth - that's what causes the dry mouth.  

Some people may breath through their mouth even with a clear nasal passage, I think that is not normal.

There are good dry mouth products on the over-the--counter market - look on Amazon or ask a pharmacist.  I'll not make any specific brand recommendations there are only a couple on the shelf at Walmart anyway.  I like the paste better than the mouth wash....seems to work better in part because it is not rinsed out.

[frogturtle]

Hello, I didn't realize someone had replied to my post long ago and I thank you for replying!  I am still having this problem and I will ask my doctor about getting a home oximeter test.  He sent home an EEG at one point which came out fine.   I just wish my tongue would stop doing what it does.  It is so frustrating to fall asleep and have it happen over and over.  I'm basically severely sleep deprived.

[Jerry_NJ]

I don't know if obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) can be intermittent, but it is usually worse (maybe only) when one sleeps on their back.  A bit over weight can make OSA worse, I have mild OSA.   I lost 20 pounds and it has stopped as far as I can tell, but I haven't been retested (sleep study, or even just an overnight at home Recording Oximeter test).

I think age is also a factor, I had no symptoms until I reached a "senior" age.

In a case such as yours I'd try to buy/rent or get a doctor to prescribe an at home Recording Oximeter test, and run it every night until you had it recording during a night you had sleep symptoms.  If it showed you had a low oxygen saturation level, you have apnea I believe.

No other ideas.  In my case an over night Oximeter test led to a Sleep Study at the hospital and both indicated mild OSA.  A physical examination of my throat by the Pulmonary doctor (sleep test) led to the idea my weight may be causing all o part of my problem.  I was not "fat", just overweight at about 245 and 6' 5".

I also had lung x-rays looking for lung problems, none were found...thank god, I was a smoker for about 30 years, but quit that over 25 years ago.  That was a good move on my part, but not likely related to my mild OSA problem.