Nocturnal Body vs. Diurnal Life

[lj007cool]

All my life (17 years) I have been the kid that could never be asleep before everyone else, and the one who thought being up for school at 8am was a real torture method! (*laughs*) However over time my sleeping patterns just keep falling further back on the clock. So now it's stopped and has been for a couple of years been me falling asleep at around sunrise (5am-ish). (This is my natural time... I have been able to move it back a bit to around 2-3am during the school days). If let be I will have my full 8 and a bit hours sleep and wake up on my own (of course by then it's 1 in the afternoon). As you could tell with our diurnal lifestyle and school times, it gets rather annoying. Leaving me sleep deprived or slightly dehydrated (due to the sun warming my room whilst I sleep).

So now that you understand the "problem" I will present the "complications"...

Let's get the simple stuff out of way first. The problem is me not feeling tired and lying in bed for hours and hours until sleep finally hit me at about 5am. The trick is... my diet isn't all salads but it is pretty good (esp. compared to a lot of modern day people). I do not drink excessive soft drink(of course I don't smoke/drugs/alcohol etc etc). I read books, listen to classical music, am pretty comfortable, and go to the GYM and exercise.

In unnatural ways; being woken up at an early time just sleep deprives me. It has an effect on my sleep pattern by maybe an hour at the most and as soon as the early wake ups stop I go back to normal patterns within the day. Recently I wondered with my doctor if it was stress/anxiety based as I am in a high pressure school at the moment so he prescribed some pills to calm me before I sleep (TEMAZE TABLETS - take one before sleep) which had no effect at all (this is my third night taking them and I do feel more calm etc. but not "going to sleep now" and once more I was up those nights until the sun came up.

~MAY NOT BE RELATED!~
I haven't experienced this for a few months now but a while back when I was asleep and my parents came in to wake me up or tell me something before they leave I would often be asleep when I replied. Which is not that uncommon except it was a normal conversation. (aka: "Do you have any assignments due soon" my mother asks. "A couple. Mainly English and ToK that are coming up but I have already finished them." I replied despite the fact I was asleep). I would have no memory of the conversation. (My parents said that one time they tricked me as they naturally though I was faking it to get out of having to get up or do a chore. But quickly discovered it wasn't some act.). As far as I know there was no actions done with this other than speaking however I don't know.

~YOU CAN SKIP THIS HOWEVER THESE ARE TOPICS OF MY MED. HSTORY INCASE SOMETHING CATCHES THE EYE~
-Born with a dilated left kidney (not removed - was thought to be gone but in a scan for something else I may have to have it checked out again).
-Haven't had the test done yet but it seems like I have an allergy to opiates (esp. morphine)
-Had a perforated appendix about 6 months ago and got it removed about 3 months ago
-High pain tolerance
-ingrown toenails ~Genetic (though no one in our family has be known to have it)~

(about all I can think of... ask if you would like any of this in further detail or anything else)

Thanks for any light you can shed onto this matter  
Jon

[Toughcheesesmallpaws]

Night nookie does NOTHING for me.  My husband will be zonked out and I'll be in bed jealous of his sleeping while I'm now wired (and it's not like I didn't enjoy it- the opposite really- not getting into details though).
I think I might suffer from hypothyroidism (considering my doctor wants to watch it) and it's only been getting worse the last year or so.  I've always naturally been a night person, and during the day I get so tired, especially under lights. I could sleep anywhere!  But at night... once the sun goes down my energy goes up and I'm wired.  Not like I do anything exciting or party.  I just can't sleep.  It's soooo annoying!  I've been living with my peculiar sleeping habits for 28 years now.  :(

[Esofia]

This doesn't sound like insomnia or bad sleep hygiene (although the latter will aggravate a sleep problem), it sounds like Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS), which is most likely genetic.  Google it and you'll find a fair bit of information on it. I'm treating mine using light therapy and darkness therapy, which is doing quite a good job, and have a blog/site about all of this at http://insearchofmornings.wordpress.com/ which you should find helpful, the links section if nothing else.

[Pres0081]

I have incredible insomnia but it's a side effect caused by meds. I'm so jealous of all of you that fall asleep around 2-3am. I fall asleep around 7-8am and don't wake up till 3-4pm. I can sleep for 12 hours straight but still won't be refreshed. I hate it!!!

I tried everything and nothing has work but since it's caused by meds, I figured I'd share a few things with the hopes of it working for any of you.

Gravol:

That's what it's called here in Canada. Over the counter med. You can even get it at Wal Mart. Very inexpensive. It's for nausea and motion sickness but it helps with the sleep. You may feel groggy for a few times but it will settle. Try to take it around 8-9pm. Takes about 30 minutes to kick in. Take it b4 your nightly routine.

Melatonin:

Natural sleep aid. Not too expensive and you can again, get it over the counter. You can get it in pill or liquid form. I found that the liquid form can upset your stomach.

Tricks:

-Warm bath before bed. Try some Baby products. They have this lavender baby wash that you can use as a bubblebath and the matching lotion. It clearly says on the bottle that it helps babies to relax and fall asleep. Girls: Smells great! Guys: It's not the manliest thing out there but women love the smell so it could work out to your advantage! :)

-Drink warm liquids like decaf tea.

-Put on some music... try to stay away from heavy metal and stuff lol

-Actually, stay away from "exciting" things. Don't watch action movies or read a thrilling book. If ur mind is too busy, you won't sleep.

-Turn a fan on! That's what helps me. If I didn't have it, I'd never sleep.

-Meditation: dudes, don't knock it till you try it!

-Last and probably the best one, so I've heard... late night nooky! I know, I know.... but it is proven to help you sleep. Do it safely!!! Saying that makes me feel better knowing that I just suggested to total strangers to get it on lol

Best of luck to all of you!

[Lisa_G]

I have this too.. it used to be stable I'd wake up at 11:00 at around 19 then 12:30 at 20ish then way later 1:30 cause I had an odd nap in the night then woke up at 6am then slept in til 1 and now just recently I can't seem to even sleep predictably at 6am .. I sometimes feel tired at 6am but now I'm awake as can be. too much mental stimulation I guess. I'm trying to fix it but once it migrates it seems to get stuck *cries* I  was happy at 11:00am or 12:00 pm ... so annoying and no I don't want DRUGS I would like to try something natural though.

[kanorshkan]

Hey man I've recognized nearly all of that in my sleep patterns. I continually go to sleep later and later and wake up later and later (not a problem for me besides freakin school.) I remember I tried counting sheep once. Due to my ADD that was a futile and yet somewhat hilarious attempt that resulted in me coming up with some crazy off the wall story about flying a space ship in space and crashing on a nother world. My sleep pattern is currently ... 10:00 pm go to bed ( lay in the bed anyways). 1-3 am go to sleep. 5:45 Am get up and catch the bus. That kills me. I go through school and then literally crash when I get home. I've done all that **** about "no stimuluses an hour before bed" and the stop playing games for a week and well, you know they all just don't work. In fact it seems to make it worse. The only thing that's helped me sleep so far was minor depression and that shouldn't happen too often. Oh the doctors put me on some med's called Melatonin once. It seemed to help me get a better sleep but not get to sleep faster. It was only 5mg though. And coffee/energy drinks make me feel tired instead of hyper.  Unrelated subject, I think I may have Asperger's disorder. I've never slept through someone trying to talk to me. In fact when someone opens my door I usually wake, even if I am dead tired. Yet somehow I've managed to sleep through about 3 tornadoes.... Someone explain that to me please. I have noticed that I can sortof change my sleeping patterns a little through a lot of work but in the long run I always end up going back.

[KD9ER]

Wow!  Your sleep schedule sounds like mine!  And yours started about the time mine did.  I was about 17 when I noticed the same things happen.  Although my sleep talking only started this past year when my husband will swear up and down he told me something or that I responded...I have NO CLUE what he's said to me while I'm asleep.  I even weave the phone ringing into my dreams.  

I'm 24, almost 25 and I'm still having issues.  Recently I was told to see a Neurologist as sleep meds do not work for me.  I am now at my worst.  If I do get to sleep I do have to sleep at minimum 9 hours before I feel remotely rested.  But I walk around not knowing the last time I truely felt rested.  I have Thyroid issues and seem to be more Hypothyroid than Hyper.  I would start with your Primary Care Provider (PCP) and have some lab tests run.  I would then request two sleep tests, one night time study and one day time sleep study.  The night one may come back normal, but it's the day time one you want to pay attention to.  If you fall asleep easily during the day time one then you may have a very mild form of Narcolepsy.  It is very treatable with meds and allows you to get back to a more normal sleep schedule.  I am awaiting this last test.  The Neurologist will tell you if your brain chemestry is off.  Mine is.  My negative receptors are too "open" to meds, which causes me to react very extreme to meds.  For example, taking a sleep aid and not going to sleep.  This can be very revealing in that you can find some sleep issues stem to your brain chemestry being too "open".  Those are not technical terms, but it was how it was explained to me.  I'm not very scientific in nature---I'm more history/literature.  Hence being a teacher of Secondary Ed US History.  

I recommend you start with the labs and the sleep studies with a consult to the Neurologist.  It can be very trying.  Especially with parents who may not fully understand this isn't something you can control.  

I wish you the best of luck.  Keep posting and let us know what you find.

-KD9ER

[KatEyes]

My sleep doctor has been adamant about me following good sleep hygiene and getting myself on an earlier sleep schedule. Says the hormone levels conducive to sleep fluctuate and I'll get more benefit from my sleep if it starts between 9 and 10pm. My habit of staying up at night came with multiple sleep disorders, and now it's just habit. What I did do was commit to getting up early a few days in a row and take no naps. By the 3rd day I was watching the clock waiting for 9pm so I could go to bed. Problem is I'll relapse if I allow myself to get back off schedule for any reason, then have to start over.

Or you could move to another part of the country or world where what comes natural to you is in line with their time.

[lj007cool]

Thankyou everyone for your swift responses. To answer some questions... I do go to bed early it's just that I lay in bed (lol I remember when I was 11 I was quite annoyed at the counting sheep as I couldn't be bothered to continue past a thousand! No joke!) twisting and turning waiting to go to sleep. For example today (again the meds. didn't work) I was woken up before my 8 hours etc and a few hours later I'm still really tired. even now I'm struggling to stay awake. But then the later it get, the more awake I become until around 5am-ish when I finally fall asleep. I go to the GYM most days and play tennis on the other days. I have been trying for months to change this sleeping habit however with obviously little success (even after speaking to my doctor about the best methods).
Interesting about the Narcolepsy (LexiFaye) because in the year I've been searching for help about this and the talking in my sleep that has come up a few times. I do note that I seem to go into REM sleep rather fast (in under 5 mins.) and the closest thing I could find that described my conversational sleep was this http://en.allexperts.com/q/Sleep-Disorders-2557/Sleep-Amnesia.htm which said it was hypnangogic hallucinations which I thought to be a bit extreme and disregarded it... But still I haven't had paralysis or any other Narcolepsy thing that makes me think otherwise.
On another note. I had another conversation in my sleep today despite not having one for several months...
Are there any other thoughts than habitual? Because I feel that I could affect it even a little but if I wanted to. As in if I was tired and went to bed early and didn’t stop myself from falling asleep then surely I’d fall asleep?
(not sure if I mentioned this before but when I saw the drugs aren’t working  I mean I don’t/can’t feel stressed after I take them but still I just lay in bed waiting for sleep to hit me and it never does before the sun rises).
Thank you again for the information you have all been providing: D
Jon

[randomvisitor]

Ahhh yess i am in that nocturnal club which depresses me, as I know someday I will be a mother who has to wake up at 6am to make breakfast for family and get ready for work. I get naucious thinking about it as I can barely wake up before 11am or sleep before 3:30am, but alas this is life.

So first, u are wondering the cause of such nocturnal approach to life. It is habitual. Yes, that's all it is. Just habitual. So apparently we nocturnal people got into habit for years after years of setting our sleep clock to be like that. And it makes sense why they urge parents to give a bedtime to kids (i had a bedime but it was never enforced really.) Also this is why they have elementary school start so early so kids learn to wake up so early at a young age and get into the daytime life. This is based off of my personal research for quite  awhile.

Ok now, what to do! Please do not take the medicine, if you do not need it 100%. There are so many other ways to go to sleep and although u might be under-pressure (i am a pre-med student myself and under so much stress) there are other ways to relieve the stress. To fall asleep, try the wonderful sleep aid Unisom. So take it at 9pm then u will get drowsy and fall asleep maybe a couple of hours later. Even if u fall asleep at 2am and it takes that long to work, it'll still be before 5am.

So try Unisom. Other things u could try to sleep is any antihistamine such as Benadryl (makes me so so drowsy), also Nyquil. And these are all non-addictive and safe to use every night no problem. They work for me. I don't sleep at 10pm, but I do sleep at 1am which is better than before! Good luck and take care!

[LexiFaye]

My parents caught me one time! I do the same thing! I didn't vacuum. I actually moved the vacuum to look like I did, and they busted me. But anyhow... I believe I may even be on the same meds as you. The silly thing for me is I have Narcolepsy, and sometimes I have trouble sleeping. Don't stress too much about not sleeping. I can imagine that may make it worse?

I think though that talking in your sleep can sometimes be from stress. If you're at a high pressure school that would make sense. Besides medicines, which sometimes can seem like the easy way out, try taking a look at habits. Do a little sleep journal, search on the net, do it for a couple weeks. Then you can see what exactly your days are like when you have trouble getting to sleep, or if it's purely a terrible habit. Possibly take that back to your doctor, or even research relaxation techniques.

I was quick to judge the relaxation techniques at first, but when you get real tired, you don't so much anymore. Like B said, it may just take time to get into a sleep routine. You just may be the type that HAS to keep the same sleep routine. Figure one out that will work for all aspects of your week, every day of the week.

Good luck though... When all else fails go back to the doc.

[bee_ryan]

I developed the same problem you're having over time.  I kept staying up later and later.  Now i find myself going to sleep around 2am.  I think that if your sleep cycle gets out of wack it's just hard to get it back in order; I don't think drugs are really the answer since you can sleep you just can't sleep when you want to.

There are two ways I've heard of, from doctors, to address the problem.  Go to bed a 1/2 hour earlier every three days and wake up consistently at the same time.  Or stay up 24hrs and try to get to bed early the next evening.  Personally I think the only thing that works is gradual.  But prepare for sleep; get exercise, make sure your bed is ready and you have something to drink etc and turn off all the stimulation.

Good luck,

B