Yesterday 30 people had been reporting to the authorities in Sweden that they experienced such severe side effects that they felt the need to contact a hospital. Today the number is 140. The swedish newspaper Expressen is the only one in Sweden reporting on these cases and as usual this is most likely only the tip of a rather large iceberg. UPDATE: According to Dagens Nyheter, the number of reported side effects are now a few hours later 190. 1 person dies after the injection but "no direct relation with the injection has been established". The biggest medical scandal in the history of Sweden has just started.
Even so, Annika Linde, director of The Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control (SMI) manages to spin this into something positive by stating "The vaccine has more side effects than the normal flu vaccine. It is a sign that proves that it gives an effective protection."
Thousands of Swedes have been vaccinated so far and the reports of side effects are "flooding in" to The Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control (SMI). Annika Linde: "It is obviously so that the vaccine against the swine flu results in more side effects than the normal flu vaccines. That is because the swine flu vaccine contains adjuvants, shark liver oil, which triggers the immune defense to respond. That also results in that the protection against the virus becomes better."
Several severe cases of allergic reactions are reported to the unit for medicinal safety. "So far the reported side effects are not unexpected", says Gunilla Sjölin Forsberg. This unit has now asked some of the many units that vaccinate to report side effects to better get a grip on the situation. This statement alone is shocking since according to normal practice, all side effects should automatically be reported - right?
A nurse who took the shot on wednesday last week is still feeling sick. She got high fever and shivers from the swine flu shot. "-I was shaking in my whole body. It was so sever that I could not even hold a glass of water in my hand.", Lotta Lindström says.
"- I am now thinking about what it is I have been injected with. I really was affected. It feels really unpleasant."
De blev sjuka av vaccinet - Hälsa - Expressen.se
Maria Strindlund is not so sure she made the right choice to tae the shot. She also got a severe fever and shivering reaction. "- Since I work as a nurse, I decided it was the best thing to do.", she says. At first she felt nothing from the vaccinaton, but a few hours later the side effects kicked in. "- I got a extreme pain in my arm. I could no longer lift it." The came the fever and the shivering. " _ I was lying in bed shivering and was feeling very cold and stood in a hot shower to get warm." She says many colleguse who also took the vaccine have had similar reactons. She has been taking many vaccines in the past without any reactions whatsoever.
Rebecka Andersson was the first person to get the shot in Sweden. She became feverish and felt sick to her stomach from the shot. " - I lost all energy", she says. "-I am normally never sick so I understood it must be the vaccine." Her class mates was vaccinated at the same time and she states that five out of nineteen also got sick from the swine flu vaccine.
Rebecka, 32: "Jag blev orkeslös" - Hälsa - Expressen.se
Lotta Lindström, a nurse, states that she got the shot a week ago and still is not well. "- It feels very worrying", she says. "- I did not sleep anything the night after the shot since the pain in my arm was so severe." The day after, at work, the fever came. She later had headaches. She still today, a week after the shot feels sick.
Lotta, 49: "Jag sov inte något på natten" - Hälsa - Expressen.se
Another nurse, Jennely, could hardly walk five meters after she got sick from the "swine flu" vaccination. She was completely healthy when she got the shot but the day after she had 39 degrees centigrade fever (102.2 F). "- I could hardly walk the five meters I had to the bathroom", she says. The fever lasted for three days. sevreal of her colugueges at work had similar experiences. "- I know of at least ten that got fever , we are about 80 people at my workplace."
Jennely, 26: "Orkade knappt gå fem meter" - Hälsa - Expressen.se
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irina 2009-10-21 18:47:11
thanks for putting all reports together
Lena 2009-10-21 19:38:16
A death from the vaccine - heart attack) mentioned in DN.
Nikolaj 2009-10-21 20:11:37
And it is even on the frontpage of todays paper:
saying "sick from the shot"
SWINE FLU IS FAKE DO NOT I SAY DO NOT TAKE IT. THEY ARE KILLING YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY WANT THE POPULATION TO GO DOWN.
WHAT HAPPEN IN 1918 AND 1978???????
AND 9-11... INSIDE JOB?? KATRINA?? MANY PEOPLE SUDDLY DIEING??
They say it's bad here schools closing and everyone sick but recover within a few days. One NHL hockey team are all sick but
still on the ice but not getting worse. The ones that get the shot will be the sickest and create the pendenic ad however keeps saying that is not a live virus can ....... Sure that's what they say for one particular version but I dont buy it. People I'm Europe and dropping dead and some with severe flu symptoms after getting the shot. Those are the severe cases and I blame the shot. If its so safe according to some of you pro drugs and vaccine doctor loving leaches hen why make special batches for pregnant women etc etc ? The virus is so smart it knows its targets?? Avoiding old people but targetting the young!??? The weaker immune systems would get effected more so dont you think?I still say the h1n1 is a conspiracy. Too bad to those who are itching to fight me on my concerns to do with this subject. Youre safer to beef up your own immunity and the body takes care of the rest. We were born with re ability to fight infections etc naturally we dont need the help of some drug that compremises things.
I am, a senior citizen i had open heart surgery last nov, i have never fully recovered as they said i would and my immune systym is weak, if i get the chance do you think i should take the swine vaccine most meds make me sick, but the flu shot did not or the pnemonia shot do you know any older people that have had the shot jo
Hi jo929, I can't tell you either way whether you should or should not have the shot. I am only expressing my opinion and what is being reported overseas. You are better off talking to your doctor and asking which vaccine is best for you for your condition and asking what the difference between the european batch compared to where ever you are from since the European batch is causing such issues.. I would only pray that the right decision is made for you by you. You may opt to up your immunity naturally and keeing your hands clean,your home and not touching public objects plus covering your face when getting to close to people, using your covered elbows to push doors open, using sanitizers provided at some supermarkets to wipe down the cart handles. I keep my own in my purse to wipe the carts down. OR you can take the vaccine route. But either way you should still do the above (the sanitizing) to give yourself alittle more protection. I personally won't be getting the shot and since I managed to avoid the first wave of the swine flu and be around sick people when out in public and not get anything... I am sure the second wave they are reporting and hyping up won't be any different for me
I do not know any senior who has been given the shot but then again they are saying seniors aren't at risk?! Um ok, strange flu, it's got a mind of its own. It's made up its mind it doesn't like seniors and wants the younger ones. <_<.
You know Jo it may be good the get some advice on this it is so important, so I wouldnt like to give an opinion, I do know a lot of folks arent doing it, its your choice maybe M3lanie has better input ..
You most likely do NOT need the flu shot for H1N1... Older folks have most like already had it - but PLEASE ask your physician. This is the reason older folks are NOT getting it - they've already HAD it.
I read an article that said that CBS did an investigative report. Most cases of this horrendous illness that's going around is not H1N1 OR the seasonal flu! SO, the good ole CDC has decided to just tell people that they have a "probably case" of H1N1 - but most people who presented at hospitals tested NEGATIVE for EITHER flu (H1N1 or the seasonal type).
Everyone needs to read up on what it is that the drug companies are protected FROM if the good ole government declares a medical emergency...like liability on inadequately tested VACCINATIONS/IMMUNIZATIONS.
WATCH OUT ! READ UP ! The stats are being greatly exaggerated.
Are you guys serious? You really think this is some kind of conspiracy? All I know is my son DID have the Swine flu and DID test positive for the flu and was treated for flu lst month. It got serious fast with a high temperature and he had to be hospitalized because it turned into pneumonia. This is one nasty bug, guys. You don't want to get it, I'm telling you! Just be careful and stay safe. Wash your hands a lot and stay away from sick people. They say it could get worse before it goes away. We've already had nearly 100 children die from this in the US only. That's very unusual for flu because it's usually the elderly who are more vulnerable. This time it's the kids who are the most vulnerable. I just saw something on TV that said the elderly were probably already exposed to this strain many years ago and that's probably why they're doing ok but the kids are not.
I really don't believe this is some sort of conspiracy.
no one said the swine flu didnt exist..... everyone will do what is right for them but it's important to let facts be known about what people are going thru since the vaccine shots were given. I for one will be paying lots of attention in weeks to come and this forum about how some people are doing since getting the shot. I dont plan on being the test subject, I'll let the ones that are rushing to get it be the test subjects. I'm sure alot out there are doing the same before deciding to get it or not.
I can completely understand people wanting to wait or choosing not to get it. I agree with you there M3lanie, everyone absolutely has to make the choice that is best for them. As always, I respect peoples right to do what they think is best for them and their families. The reality is that like any drug on the market today, from tylenol to penicillian to stronger drugs like heavy pain killers, some will have adverse reactions to it. No doubt about it. What I cannot buy into is a conspiracy theory. That would have to mean that all the Dr's, pharmaceutical companies, scientist's working on it, gov'ts of many large countries, etc. are working together to accomplish...what? Seems awfully far fetched to me. I still firmly believe that people should get the facts...talk to your Dr. Also, look at your situation. How likely are you to be exposed? This flu can be nasty as many who have had it can attest to. For me personally, there is no doubt it is in mine and my unborn babies best interest to get it. It is true that the mist is a bit of live vaccine. The shot however, like the seasonal flu shot is a dead DNA strand. So that may be the best choice for many. For women under 20 weeks pregnant, or certain underlying medical conditions, waiting until the thermisol free is available seems to be the best choice. Just be careful...there is a lot of obscure, non factual information out there, so try to make sure you are getting your information from a credible source. Then make the decision you feel is the best one. Good luck everyone and stay healthy!
No I dont think it's a conspiracy ,I do sympathise with parents having to make a descision about their children and whether to get it done, its a dilemma but its true you make your choice then have to live with it.Are all areas getting it now , we know nothing here ..
They just started to administer it here yesterday (I am in Calgary, Canada). It is available at 4 clinics right now, first come first serve only, so of course the line ups are huge. I am waiting a few days to see if they calm down. Hoping to have it by friday. I had my seasonal yesterday, they gave it to me at our medical clinic at work, so no wait time at all. I will definately feel better when I am fully protected, right now I am worrying. I am in and out of our cities local homeless shelters weekly and so my exposure risk rate is pretty high.
I may not get much a choice. I haven't seen the shot available in MN. In my parents' state, they are limiting the shot to people aged 2 to 24.
I'm kinda worried about getting the h1n1 flu because I'm forced into public transportation getting to and from work and I work in a mall now. That means for part of each week I will be exposed to all kinds of people and kids. Just no way to avoid it other than not eat with dirty hands, try not to rub my eyes, etc...
And no quitting my new job and living life as a hermit is not an option.
The H1N1 vaccine is the exact same technology as the seasonal flu vaccine.
Flu mutates all the time, and each year they make a new vaccine. If the swine flu continues to be an issue, it will be incorporated into seasonal flu.
The seasonal flu kills 30,000 Americans each year. Many of those deaths can be avoided by timely vaccination.
H1N1 is more difficult to figure in terms of death rate. It kills children and young adults, and pregnant women. If you are pregnant, and you get H1N1, and get a complication, you have a 1/3 chance of death.
Unlike seasonal flu H1N1 does not seem to kill older people with the same frequency.
There is nothing scary, weird, or conspiratorial about a vaccine. All it does is trick your body into thinking it is sick. That, in turn, causes your immune system to make antibodies. Its the antibodies that protects you.
It is not available here 2 drug stores I went in have big notices up simply saying No Vaccine .....so even if it was being used by us all its not there ....my daughter has said the same , if I wanted it....... Its not availble .....
MJIthewriter, Margypops, and anyone else who hasn't gotten the H1N1 vaccine, I'd be grateful if I were you... By declaring this bogus "pandemic," the vaccine manufacturers have been granted their own "immunity." See if the following makes sense:
According to a separate CBS News report, the U.S. government is now funding newer unprecedented technologies to speed up vaccine production, including one that involves growing the virus inside animal cells and another that involves flu proteins grown inside insect cells.
The risks of these, and the current fast-tracked swine flu vaccine, are truly unknown at this time.
There is NO Incentive for the CDC or Vaccine Manufacturers to Care About Safety
You may think that the CDC and the vaccine manufacturers must be concerned about safety, as if they released a dangerous vaccine and promoted it to the American public, imagine the lawsuits they would face.
This is actually no longer reality as the U.S. government has granted vaccine makers total legal immunity from any lawsuits that result from the new swine flu vaccine.
In fact, drug manufacturers got a major boost in protection and were granted unprecedented powers to experiment on the population with the passing of the 2006 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (the PREP Act).
This law allows the DHHS Secretary to invoke almost complete immunity from liability for manufacturers of vaccines and drugs used to combat a declared public health emergency, which the "swine flu pandemic" qualifies as.
The PREP Act removes your right to a trial jury unless you can provide clear evidence of willful misconduct that resulted in death or serious physical injury. But that's not all. First you must apply for and be granted permission to sue by the DHHS Secretary.
The most problematic aspect of the PREP Act is that it removes all financial incentive to make a safe product.
In fact, vaccine makers now have a negative incentive to test it for safety, because if they are aware of problems, then they could potentially be held liable for willful misconduct!
As long as they can prove they "didn't know" of any problem, they will not be liable for damages. Hence it's in their best interest to know as little as possible about the adverse reactions it might cause.
It seems unimaginable, but you and your children are now being enlisted as an unpaid human trial subjects for experimental, fast-tracked vaccines like the swine flu vaccine.
I have no intention of getting any kind of flu shot I was horribly sick 10 years or so ago, after having a flu shot, turned to pneumonia, I have never had one since ...i have to admit a negligance in bothering listening to what is happening with it, I have been far more concerned with the fast demise of this country as we know it, and anyway this 'government' cant even get enough vaccines out for folks, wait for the lines of the wonderful Healthcare they are ramming down our throats as we speak.
I'm not getting any of the flu vaccine shots, either. I got one maybe 3 years ago with my son but won't do it again. He got sick afterwards. I don't need to worry about the H1N1 flu with him now because he already got it last month. I'm wondering if my daughter and husband might have gotten a mild case of it too, since they were sick for a few days but had mild symptoms, nothing like my 5 year old had. I hope this thing dies down soon!
I ALWAYS GET A SEASONAL FLU SHOT, NEVER ANY SIDE EFFECTS,,,BUT THIS YEAR, MY IMMUNE SYSTEM IS WEAK, AFTER TAKING CHEMO AND RADIATION, AND NOT EATING MUCH; I ASKED THE RADIATION NURSES IF I SHOULD HAVE THE FLU SHOT, SHE SAID, YOU DEFINITELY NEED TO TAKE IT. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE H1N1 VACCINE, THOUGH; I GUESS I'LL WAIT TO SEE WHAT SIDE EFFECTS OTHERS TAKING IT HAVE, ALSO. ESPECIALLY WHEN I HAVE MVP AND HBP.
I have renal failure, so I get the regular flu shot every year, and as soon as it is availbale i will be getting the H1N1 vaccine...they are not going to put out a vaccine that is overly dangerous to people...and I am sorry anyone who takes to heart anything that CBS news reports, ought to really check things out.....the media has the nation so scared about the flu and thats on both ends of the spectrum ones that believe in the shot and the ones who dont...it's like anything else the shot may not prevent you from getting the H1N1 but will hopefully not get it as bad......and common sense has alot to do with any flu...wash your hands stay away if you can from sick ppl, if you are sick try tio limit contavct with other ppl and if you are feeling that bad or that sick call your family dr. or get your butt to the ER
I am having no side effects whatsoever except stiffness in the arm I got it in. I had to go into the hospital last night, was in labour and delivery for a bit (unrelated issue). I was saddened by the number of pregnant women in the hospital with H1N1. They are not letting anyone except patients and spouse in now...no visitors at all. I have no regrets in getting this vaccine at all.
A few years ago, vaccine makers almost stopped selling vaccines in the US because of liability, after that Congress took action to address the issue.
Now the situation is that if you get a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine and can scientifically prove it, you are compensated for actual injuries.
There are many documented in the US court system where people are compensated not for actual injuries, but because of emotional circumstances.
People are not faking their illness. They are, in fact, actually getting sick and in some cases dying. Thus, there isn't any justification fo calling the pandemic a fake.
Everyone who is in a high risk group should be vaccinated. It is a simple basic step that could save your life, the life of your neighbor, or the life of a child.
A number of people have commented that they got sick after getting a flu shot. Such an illness could be, 1) a cold or something unrelated to the vaccine, or 2) a strain of the flu that isn't in the vaccine. That experience is a caution, but not necessarily a contraindication. Its worth talking over with your doctor.
You cannot say that the vaccine will not kill you. No one knows for sure if or who it could give a severe reaction to. The regular flu vaccine causes major health problems and some deaths just by having an allergic reaction so it is untrue to say that something cannot kill you. Heck, noone truely knows when they will die.
You also cannot say that it is a easy decision for someone since you are not in their shoes. Some of us are pregnant and do not want to put something like this into our bodies and into our unborn child. This has only been tested since September for Pregnant women and only a few months for others. So, it is NOT an easy decision.
I realize that you are a nurse but remember you are not able to make that call on whether this vaccine will hurt someone or not. You do not have all of the facts and cannot possibly have them. So be very careful what and how you say that something will not kill someone when you do not know the specific reactions or allergies that someone has.
It is a decision that everyone must make but each of us should not be criticized for not getting or getting the vaccine. It is a personal choice. And please do not tell people or scare people into the thought that they could kill someone else from passing on the flu. You are not guaranteed to not pass the virus on to anyone just cause you got the vaccine. So, just be very careful what you say since their are many people on this site that have mixed opinions.
The biggest problem with this whole debate is so many are not going to credible sources for their information. People are feeling frightened and finding info on the web that backs up that fear, even if it is based on nothing but speculation and rumour. Remember that people can post anything..if you are afraid or paranoid about anything, I guarantee you will find information on the internet that will feed into that fear. Do not buy into conspiracies or paranoia. It is not really necessary to test the vaccine thoroughly. If you look into it you will find that it is essentially exactly the same as the seasonal flu vaccine. The don't test that every year either, they just alter or change the DEAD dna strand that they use. The protocols are exactly the same. It has been tested thoroughly on pregnant women and proven safe. Will some people have a negative reaction? Of course they will, no doubt about it. But if you have safely taken the seasonal flu vaccine in the past, which changes a bit every single year, then you are pretty safe with this one. Make your own decision, but make an educated one. This is not a gov't conspiracy, what could possibly be the motive? And please don't tell me it's population control. We are not being used as human guinea pigs. We have a new strain of flu virus that is making some very very ill. Is it even remotely possible that they are trying to protect us? Does that not make a bit more sense? Yes, some get sick from the seasonal flu vaccine, but a whole lot more get much sicker from not getting it. I am not here to try to tell you what to do. You are all grown ups and more then capable of making your own decisions. But for heavens sake, make a properly informed one. Don't just look for information, check out the source.
Before giving the shot, the nurse asks about allergies to eggs, or other allergic reactions in the past. Pregnant women are being strongly encouraged to get the shot, in fact they are a priority. Doctors are having their children get the vaccine, which I highly doubt would happen, if they had any doubts about the safety of the vaccine.
Expressen and DN are two of the greatest tabloids in Sweden. Allthough it is important to check credibility of information, I am pretty sure any newspaper with big headlines about SIV sells quite good these days.
Nothing bad about Expressen or Dagens Nyheter but had media not made a circus and instead stayed to basic info, panic hadn't been created.
Media - this is my personal opinion - is supposed to inform in crisis situations, not cause more panic than neccesary.
The swine flu needs attention and there's a great big black hole on the side-effects (at least here in Norway) but isn't it so that we fear what we don't know instead of calming down at what we do know?
Yep, absolutely I will get it. I was in ICU for a week with the regular flu some years back.
I have a flu shot each year after that. I learned first hand what "just the flu" can do. This year, I've already had the regular flu shot, and hopefully this week will get the H1N1 vaccine.
I will certainly stand by my statement that contracting the flu yourself puts others at risk for infection. So its not only about what you decide for yourself. It would be nice to believe that your personal decision not to get the vaccine affects no one else, but it does.
I've been taking care of some VERY ill pregnant women with H1N1 already this year. One just got off a ventilator. Perfectly healthy before that.
I get vaccines to protect myself from people who DON'T.
I am one of the high risk chronic disease people who are on the priority list. I do get the regular flu shot each year as a result. My family doctor said I had H1N1 a few weeks ago but no test was run. I checked the Lupus Foundation of America sight and they are advising people with Lupus (like me) and especially if on immune suppressants to ensure we get one but to ensure that we get the non-live one. My son has ulcerative colitis and is on immune suppressants and the Crohn's & Colitis Foundation is saying the same thing. I do trust these groups.
You can get the vaccine in you want that is your choice. I already had H1N1 just a month ago and actually my OBGYN said that I do not have to get the vaccine since I already had it. So, I am sticking to my decision.
Peekawho, You do whatever you please but do not criticize others for making a choice for themselves. This is America and for right now we are able to have the freedom to choose what goes into our bodies. I probably would get the vaccine if i was a nurse or doctor and was around all those sick people but I do not need to since I already had the virus.
Like I said it is a choice and my choice is to not get it and I totally respect yours and others for what they decide.
God Bless everyone.
Okay so where is this vacine you are all getting ,a few moms here want to know ,maybe they need to put it into the search engine and travel a few hundred miles ......I am glad to rest found it easy to get .
I have emphysema. I can get the vaccination, or I can risk my life literally by getting the flu. I will opt for the shot. When you have any vaccine, you will always have people who get a reaction or even die from it. This has always been the case. We must look at how many shots given as opposed to number of deaths. For instance, back in 76, I think 40 million shots were given or something like that and 2-400 deaths. Not too bad actually when you look at it like that.:)
I got the shot on thursday i have a bad immune system and i got a headache anf lfu like symtoms and i was a but tired but aopart from that i am ok, i read a lot about it and wasnt sure if i should get it but my docotr sadi i needed it as i had had 5 lots of bronchitus already this year and he was worried if i got it i would be in trouble so imhappy to say i have had it and so far so good.
It says people who have a egg allery shouldnt have it
"Everyone who is in a high risk group should be vaccinated."
Not everyone. Many fibromyalgia and CFS patients relapse after getting vaccinations. I can't even tolerate allergy shots ! The fibro/CFS experts are aware of this dilemma and so sometimes they advise their patients not to get the flu vaccinations.
ignorance is bliss unbelieveable. Don't ever say ppl like myself who are trying to make ppl open their eyes don't care. I give you information on how bad vaccines are from a true expert and ppl just ignore it. I don't give a damn about what ppl do to themselves to be honest since they're being ignorant but when a child has no choice and has things forced into them, that is my problem. This reminds me of jonestown. Poor kids. Sorry I'm just so damn mad. I'm just glad I'm able to get thru to the smart ones and I'm happy to live amoung the ones who are like me and don't administer junk into them. High temps are necessary in order to fight what is inside of us and that's how we get better. It is called our own immune systems doing the job naturally.
Okay well it seems some folks have been able to get it where I live, but its gone very quiet ,I am not certain if there are any new cases,.maybe the President will come out and tell us he has lifted the state of emergency......
It seems like here in NC I have not heard of any one being able to get the H1N1 shot. I do not know whether the doctors are not giving out the shots or what. My mom has trouble breathing and her doctor told her he had not received any of the vaccinations and that she would definitely get if if they got any in. She does not need to be sick with her breating problems and unfortunately she has already been sick. All she could get was the pneumonia shot and regular flu shot. My doctor told me that this doctor's office did not get any in so therefore I could not get it. I did take the regular flu shot though, like always. I do not know what is going on here with the H1N1 shots.
Im 10 weeks pregnant and my immune system is not the best !! I got the flu shot last week and the only side effect i had was soreness in my shoulder where i got it!! That comes with the seasonal flu shot as well ( for me anyways) also both my kids have had it last week as well as my mother my father and several family members..distant and close...NONE of them got sick from it! but as always everyone is to there own! Get it or dont its your own dsecision! But i would tell you if i didnt think my kids or me NEEDED it i prob would not have gotten it! I just dont want to chance tthem getting the swine and ending up in the hospital from it or dieing! I would never be able to live with myself for that! Also some people that claim to have gotten sick from the vaccine prob had the swine before they got it and never relized it! Then saying they got it from the shot..the swine has an incubation period as every other flu/cold/disease does! But everyone IS going to react different to this vaccine as not everyones body is the same!! I believe if you can gett it...then get it while you can because there isnt enough out there for EVERYBODY! But again personal opinion that i wanted to share and add..its totally up to you..Good luck and i hope noone that dont get the vaccine ends up with swine..! ( if that makes sence)
It's so funny how you are pushing people's choices and that includes the choices they make for their children, yet if they don't agree with you they are ignorant and dumb. Little bit conflicting response from you. What child is going to say, um mom I want the flu shot? You think parents would purposely try to hurt their children? I mean come on. This debate is ridiculous.
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