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Overmedicated?
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Overmedicated?

Hi everyone, I have a quick question.  I've talked about it briefly with some of you on here, but am looking for some feedback.  This past year, I have been suffering with Hashimoto's.  I started on 50mcg, than 75mcg and than 100mcg, just in a matter of a month and a half to 2 months.  Since my diagnoses back in October, I have suffered from Heart palps, chest pain, and shortness of breath, these have been my most troublsome symptoms.  My endo started looking into other hormonal problems, cause I still was such a mess yet TSH was always normal, starting with a .9, and than a 1.3.  I've lost practically every hair on the top of my head, all the hair on the sides and back is thick still.  My question, I had a flare up a few weeks back, this is what i call it, when I swing into hyper mode and start having Nausea, and losing weight like crazy.  This only will last with me about 3 days or so, and than I get real tired and swing hypo, real bad like, and start to gain weight like crazy, and get very tired, and generally yes, my hair will start to fall out again, and I break out in acne all over.  this last time however, after feeling crummy through both my swings, I came out feeling great!!!!!  this makes no sense to me, my dose never changed, but yet now, I don't have heart palps, or chest pain or shortness of breath or any of those symptoms as before.  I have little bothering things such as acne, but even my weight has stabilized.  I'm not losing of course, but this is the first time in a year, that I just maintain, no matter what.  Is it at all possible to have been
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The palpitations may have been your body getting used to the increasing synthroid doses.  Even with the normal TSH, patients with Hashimoto's often feel better with treatment.  As long as the TSH does not get too low (ie, <0.4) then it sounds like you are doing well.
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overmedicated?  Even though my TSH and other thyroid tests came back in excellent range, is it indeed possible, that I was on too much medication?  My mom who has thyroid problems as well said that she will gain weight like crazy if she is on too high of a dose or too little, she said, it has to be just right.  I got to thinking that if I was overmedicated maybe that is why my hair didn't grow back after starting treatment, not even alittle.  When I started synthroid, my hair loss stopped, but none of it ever grew back.  Now also a few weeks back I stopped taking my propranalol.  This too, could have been why I felt so terrible.  I have been on it for a year, even after my initial hyper crisis, when it was first prescribed.  After quitting the propranalol, I'm not as tired, have more energy, no more dizziness, lightheadedness, or orthostatic intolerance, it's all gone.  I just feel like I was on too high of a dose, cause after my flare up, which in my experience has been the thyroid getting more killed off, it all leveled out.  I'm awaiting a thyroid panel now, my endo wants to see what my level is when I feel so good, just to see what's going on.  Hope I will hear soon.  Any comments?  shannon
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Hi Shanniek, did you ever hear back from your endo with the results of all the tests?

I can't comment about the over-medication, but maybe you were experiencing some adrenal problems like some of us here on these dosis? I have no idea and it's only an idea as I'm not a Dr.

Also, were you able to get the name of the water/salt test your endo was going to order for you?

Take care and I'm glad you're starting to feel better!
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Hi Ladies,
Shannon, may the Propranolol was the culprit. I know when my very first Doc put me on a similar med, atenolol, I did have a bad reaction to it. One thing is that it made my Orth. Intol. much worse and it fatigued me. Depression is also listed as a side effect of beta-blockers. I am really glad though that this last increase of Synthroid is working best it ever has, this may be an ongoing trend for you and it's about time!
Ar, I told you this last dose increase for me, also made me feel better than I have in a while but, the next day after I mentioned that in the e-mail, I sort of crashed again. Just a very stressed out feeling, with worse O.I. and bad fatigue. This again makes me thing "cortisol" or other adrenal hormone imbalances. It was disappointing but maybe it will level out because I don't plan to reduce dosage but ride it out to see what happens.
Ar, we've been over so many things that I forgot if you've mentioned this but did/does your reaction cause joint pain too? Sorry if I asked this before, just curious.
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Drmark, This is just a comment, please don't feel a need to reply unless you would like to.
I just wanted to comment that I believe the reason so many on this forum have the unresolved joint pain is because people without this or other problems would have less reason to come onto a message board seeking answers. My VERY FIRST post on here several months ago, was in regard to joint pain.
I do know joint pain is rare with emotional disorder and so is severe fatigue. A PhD Phsychiatrist for the American Pshyciatric Association, Dr. Thomas L. Price, states that less than 30% of patients with "Major" Depressive Disorder, have problems with fatigue and is not the severe type as is seen with CFS and other disorders. He also states that if a patient has low-end cortisol levels, the cause is not depression/anxiety but possibly CFS.
I passed the ACTH Stim. Test well but every free-cortisol level test I've had was low, including a 24-hour urine one, at "10.7". So, my adrenals respond well to ACTH but for some reason, don't produce even up to mid-normal for every day use.
One factor that might be VERY IMPORTANT, is sleep patterns. The reason I mention is because for over 11 years, I have worked as a Stub-Driver for my State Newspaper, being up each morning from 2:00AM to 6:00AM. I started this as a side job, back when involved during the day with product marketing. I licensed the patented product but kept the early morn. job because it pays very well for this area. I get at least 8-hours, usually 9, of sleep but is broken up. I'm beginning to wonder if circadian rhythms are off and supressing my HPA Axis. Anyway, just a thought.
It probably seems we are wanting perfect results or are being overly concerned with minor things but I think I speak for others as well as myself by saying that if my symptoms were not severe, too frequently, I would not be researching. Excuse our frustration at times, we know you have not accused us of the above things at all (imagining or exaggerating symptoms) but we just feel a need from time to time to express this because our Docs continually claim physco-somatic. My latest Doc changed about this somewhat when he saw how high my antibodies were, after more than two years on thyroid replacement. Thanks for your ear.
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I was definitely overmedicatd. Evidently, I'm replacement sensitive. I started with a hypotyhroid level of 20 and was placed on 25mcg. of Synthroid. My level dropped to a 13. I wasn't feeling better, and my dr. placed me on 75mcg. That's when everything went wrong. He said I just needed to be increased to 125mcg.But before doing so, my bloodwork was taken and I was at a level 2.So he said to stay on the 75mcg. I continued to feel worse.He switched me over to Armour Thyroid at 60 mg.I waited a wk. between stopping and starting. I felt better. But when I started the 60 mg. of Armour, the pain, etc. returned. I realized that a thyroid level 2 is too low for me. I called my dr. and told him that I was decreasing my Armour to 30mg. I didn't want to have a heart attack like my mother, grandmother, and grandfather just to please him. I'm beginning to feel much better.I think that your body knows what is right for you no matter what the general guidelines are. Take care.
Cat
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Hi JimLow,

No, I don't have joint pain, maybe ocassional but not chronic. Have you been tested for reumathoid arthritis?

Take care
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Jim, I had minor RA (runs in the family).I didn't start popping and creaking until I was placed on too high a dose for hypothyroid.When I decreased the hypothroid med that suits me, my creaking noises and joint pains are decreasing. Just a thought.Everybody reacts differently. It's amazing though, that some of us are having this problem with hypothroid.
Cat
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Ar, Yes, I tested negative for RA. I also had uric acid levels checked because elevated causes gout but was negative. I also tested neg. for ANA (helps rule-out other A.I. Diseases). My ESR (sedimentation rate-inflammation) was only a "5" and you can have up to a "20" before concern
Dr. Mark Lupo said "fibromyalgia" is more common in Hashi's, which I have but he said it was common in both hypo and hyper patients but should resolve significantly with proper treatment. I hace always felt my symptoms were similar to that of Fibro., in fact if you go to sites listing symptoms, most include orthostatic intolerance and so does CFS.
My belief is that there is a common component to all of these, including MVP. BTW, did you get your echo results back?
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Hi, YES!, I too truely believe my joint pain & creaky-crunchy sounds increased after starting thyroid med.! My wife has said she observed this in me too! ShannieK had same problem and others on here, in regard to thyroid med, making joint problems worse. I honestly believe there is a connection but whether we'll ever truely pinpoint as to "why" this happens in some people, may never happen. This is one of those areas Dr.s probably can't look in to. It will have to be a medical research project with documented findings.
I do know that Mary Shomon, in her book about autoimmune diseases states that MANY thyroid patients have sub-clincal symptoms of other A.I. diseases, they never completely manifest. There are so many opinions out there that I hace to admit it does get confusing at times!
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Hey you guys,

I have had joint/tendon issues for about the last ten years.  It is localized in all the small ligamentous places all over my hands, feet and back.  Hip ligaments as well.  It would go away for long periods of time and then flare up again.  Since I got off the Birth control pill, I notice it only happens right before I menstrate.  Two days before my hands will ache severly.  My one doc said maybe it was water retention.

The worse spells seemed to coincide with when I am the most fatigued.  I honestly assumed I had "the middle age woman disease" (okay I was 25) that seems to run in my family.  We hit our late 20's and start hurting and feeling bad and get told it is in our heads.  So I just figured I'd ignore it and excercise more.  I used yoga to keep my back from hurting and when my hands, feet and back hurt I would go run.   Even if I started tired I would feel better after the run.

I lived up north in MI for several years and in the fall it would be terrible.  As the days got shorter I would get very depressed and hurt so much I didn't want to walk up and down the stairs anymore.  Around midnovember it would get better.  Took me two years to figure out what was going on so in the third and fourth years I at least understood what was happening.   In the summer I would border on mania at times running 15 miles a day.  I am back in TX now where it isn't so extreme and I don't notice the day length any more.
Very crackly joints since I was a teenager.

So as I was reading I found an interesting description of one of the symptoms of glucocorticoid withdrawal-small aches in the hands.  Hmmm....

Another chunk of information I guess
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Hi! I can not seem to post any questions in the last 48 hours!!!(Sorry ShannieK for posting under your question) Someone mentioned Propanolol - I have recently started on it aND PUT ON 3kgs in less than a week (6lbs) & its real fat not fluid. What is going on????????????
I am very frustrated. Although my resting heartbeat has dropped from arounde 100bpm to 85bpm. Would this cause weight gain?
I have Graves and haven't lost any weight at all so I am paranoid i will gain weight from treatment.
You guys are great. I love reading all the info (even when it doesn't specifically relate. Unfortunately I have nothing to educated to add as i basically still have no idea.
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Hi, don't be sorry about the postings, I have had the same difficulty, they must be changing things in regards to this forum, you use to be able to get on and post anytime, but I have only had success in this, one time, in the last week.  In regards to Propranalol, I guess it really screwed me up, and I never even knew it.  It was my miracle med that they put me on when I was having hyper symptoms last year, and it made me feel so much better.  However when I bounced down to hypo mode, I was never taken off of it.  I have one of those at home blood pressure monitors at home, for my high blood pressure, and my pulse while on meds, always came back a 59 or 60, pretty low I think, and I have gained so much weight in this last year, I mean a ton.  I always associated it with the thyroid, since it's a common hypo symptom, however since I stopped taking it 3 weeks ago, my weight has not gone up at all, I was gaining an average of 6 to 10 pounds every week and really getting upset.  I have not lost any weight, but to be able to maintain, has been wonderful.  I'm not sure in your case, With Graves and your heart rate so high, I know you would need something, I wouldn't think with 85 pulse rate you would be gaining, but perhaps, just cause your body is not use to it being so low.  Which isn't  low, but low for you.  I don't know if any of this helped.
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Hi there.  I wanted to comment back on one of your responses to me.  See, that's just the thing, i'm not on a new dose or any new meds.  I was put on 100mcg of Synthroid last year when I was like in hyper crisis.  I have been on the same dose for the last year.  I have had many flare ups and such, but my symptoms were always the same, heart palps, chest pain, shortness of breath and so on, this was a normal every day thing for me.  But for some reason this last flare up, leveled me out.  I am exactly on the same dose, but yet all the symptoms I have had this last year are totally gone.  Heart palps, chest pain, shortness of breath, OI, and sweating for no reason and my excessive weight gain.  I didn't change my synthroid at all, but yet feel normal again.  This is why I wondered if maybe I was overmedicated?  My TSH was always normal, but i feel so much better now, don't know what my TSH is now, have had it tested so my endo can see where I'm at when I feel better.  I wonder if I was overmedicated or if that propranolol, really messed me up that bad, cause I feel terrific.  Any thoughts?
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Hi, that test I was talking about, something having to do with the salt and water balance is the aldosterone I guess, I've had it  few times, and it has always come back normal,  this last time my endo did a test of my aldosterone and renin ratio, sorry not really sure what that is to diagnose, I should ask more questions, but my ratio, too, came back normal.  I hope this helps.  Shannon   Sorry so quick.  I hope you are feeling well these days, has been pretty hard to post on this forum, here latley.
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Hi Nomes,

I really don't know why you gained weight. I can only tell you that when I was dx with graves and had these very bad symptoms (resting HR 126) I was put on a beta-blocker which helped with my HR and taken off as soon as my thyroid med started to kick in. However, I did not gain weight (I was on it prob a month only). I started to gain some of my weight back once my thyroid was under control (I had gotten as skinny as a spaguetti!). Did they switched your thyroid meds? maybe they're starting to kick in and that's the reason you're gaining weight. However, your HR needs to be under control, otherwise it overworks your heart and it's s/t you really don't want to. I remember having so bad tachycardia and arrhitmia that some times I thought my heart was going to give out and stop -it was just so bad- it happened because my HR was so elevated for too long and my heart was suffering. Hope this helps!
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Hi Shanniek,

Good thing you're feeling better. I don't know why you were not taken off the beta-blocker. Do you still have OI? your HR was low. I just read somewhere that brachycardia can cause OI (Jimlow this for you too). I'm not sure what technically is considered brachycardia but jimlow I think you said once that you do have brachycardia. Could this be causing the OI? or at least helping? Shanniek, in your case, prob the beta-blocker side-effects were screwing you up and maybe you're not overmedicated -otherwise your levels would be off I think?

Take care and let us know how's everything. Did you get the results back about your ct scan and mri? mine were normal. JimLow, no, I haven't received my echo results back so I'm assuming they're ok. You know, when they find s/t really wrong they call you immediately, if they take some time then it's not bad (at least with my docs). Although one can't be sure about that and if more than a week passes by should call to inquiry.

Take care both

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Ar, Thanks for the info, I do have bradycardia at times but usually only when resting, sitting or lying still. At sleep it probably goes even lower. Normal resting H.B. is supposed to be above 60 BPM, mine stays at between 50 & 55.
I hope you don't have the MVP but if I might just say, that I would specifically ask them this because it's my understanding many Docs don't even acknowlege it because they feel it is too common to mess with.
I hope to get an answer concerning my question to Drmark above. I had too many CBCs at borderline low and a couple flagged low. I'm too young to have weak blood. I was really young, having anemia as a child, I think age-6. Anyway, I just want to rule out all possibles for the symptom flare-ups, so I can quit being a hypochondriac (Ha, Ha!).
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Hi. Thanks.
I am feeling very frustrated and it si good to ask people who have been there.My heart rate has slowed down so much already!!!(In 3 days)From 100 bpm and now its 58 bpm!!! (resting) It feels so slow and weird - like every now and then it skips a beat, which is normal I suppose.
I was all pumped for free weight loss - perhaps the only good symptom (at least temporarily). I have been eating right and trying to exercise when I am not sick. But I seem to be putting it on and it is driving me crazy. Anyway, I suppose that is the least of my problems.
Thanks guys. At least my heart rate is down, so I'll keep up the drugs.
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Joint pain is a symptom of hyperthyroidism not sure about hypo.  Especially in the legs.  I have Graves disease which has it's own battery of symptoms with or without hyperthyroidism.  My endo. keeps saying that as long as meds. keep your thyroid normal, symptoms should be controlled.  Not sure I beleive that.  I am now having to face the decision to have redioactive iodine treatment and am very apprehensive about it.  Also, so many autoimmune diseases have very similar symptoms,i.e. Lupus, Fibromyalgia, Thyroid, Wegeners Syndrome, Sjogrens, just to name a few.  Blood tests ususally rule "in" most of these and sometimes are followed with more tests.
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I think I agree with you that the beta blockers really messed me up.  I cannot believe how much better I feel.  My thyroid was always looking normal, and i was such a mess.  I was having test after test after test done to figure out what was wrong, and everything came back ok.  I cannot believe that a medicince can have such a side effect of feeling so awful.  I cannot believe that that medicine is what was making me gain all that weight, and as soon as i stopped taking it, I have not gained a pound in like 3 weeks.  Now maybe some exercise and diet, will make a difference, where before I still gained.  It is true, on the meds my Heart rate was always around 55 or so, now that i'm off the medicine, my Heart rate is around 76 to 80, I am not so tired and dizzy and the OI, that I have experienced for the past year is totally gone.  Now I can truely feel as well as I'm suppose to, with a level of 1.3.  My MRI of my pituitary came back just fine, and they never did the CAT scan of the adrenals, because tests were coming out normal again, dr.  said there was no need to check it any futher, and that I had no symptoms of adreanl insuff.  I am so happy that I  found the reason for me being so sick, and am mad at myself that I didn't think of it sooner.  This forum is a god send, without it, I never would have questioned the beta blockers.  You asked why they kept me on them, I always assumed they did, cause my blood pressure was so high.  In fact even on medication with the propranalol, I averaged 150/102, generally.  Now that i have stopped taking the medicine, my blood pressure today was 130/82, that is so good for me.  it's funny the medicine they gave me to feel better, made me feel worse, I'm thankful that it was figured out before it did some serious damage.  Having solid heart palps and chest pain and shortness of breath for one whole year, and it could have been longer.  Now that I read more on the med, it says in the side effects that if any of the above happen to tell your dr. as soon as possible, it also says hair loss, and weight gain can occur.  Could I really be on the road to recovery.  I feel so guilty with so many of you feeling so crummy, but so happy at the same time.  I hope I will start to see some hair growth come back, maybe that medicine too, kept my hair so thin.  I hope my story on this forum, will prove to be helpful for others who might be experiencing the same thing as I did.  So many of us are put on so much medication to help our symptoms, wonder how much of it, makes us worse.  God bless, shannon
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Dear Shanniek, I'm really glad that you feel ok now!!!!
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