TSH > 5.0 for 4 years

[cuch5]

I am a 39 year old female.  6 months after my 4th child I went to see the doctor about symptoms of tiredness, dry skin, hair loss.  I had blood draw and a physical.  The doctor then called with a concern about my cholesterol, but never mentioned my thyroid.  I never asked for a copy of the results and just chalked it up to motherhood.  Fast forward to 1 year ago now.  I had my OBGYN do blood work for my thyroid.  This time it came back high.  Since I had to get a new General Practionar because I had moved I decided to ask for my old results.  These are all my blood work up till Oct

5/6/02

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

the labs were cut off but if the TSH has been >5 for 4 years, sounds like you are clearly hypothyroid - would complete the eval with thyroid antibodies to document the likely diagnosis of Hashimotos (chronic destruction of the thyroid from an immune system attack -- usually not associated with other immune system problems...) and start treatment.

[cuch5]

I hope I can add to this post

5/06/02    TSH 5.98    t4,total    4.9
5/24/02    TSH 3.81
12/02/04   TSH 5.63

Went to new doctor she started me on 25mg synthroid

Still having most symptoms

6/21/05    TSH  5.14    t4 free  1.3
10/12/05   TSH  4.76    t4 free  1.0

I asked to doctor about upping the synthroid as I still have many symptoms.  She was more concerned with my cholesterol total 241.  I asked about the connection between the 2 and she was not in agreement and will retest in Feb.

Ugh what to do now

[Chocobabe]

Your doctor doesn't agree there is a connection between hypo and high cholesterol?? But there is! All you have to do it go to google, type in cholesterol and hypothyroid, and read! And there are LOTS of folks on the natural thyroid hormones site on Yahoo, for example, who state that once they started on thyroid and got it high enough to rid themselves of symptoms, their cholesterol DROPPED.

[ancientmariner]

Dr. Broda Barnes said that cholesterol will only be high if your thyroid is low. Cholesterol is fueld for your body, and your thyroid regulates your metabolism (how efficiently your body uses the fuel). So, if your thyroid is low,m you aren't using all the "fuel" aka cholesterol, and it builds up in your blood.

Did you also know that high cholesterol was not a concern until the TSH test and synthroid came into being? That's because as soon as doctors started diagnosing by TSH instead of by symptoms, and started prescribing Synthroid instead of Armour (desiccated pig thyroid), thyroid patients were, for the most part, undertreated. That is, they remained hypo, in spite of the "normal" tests. Suddenly, new health issues appeared: high cholesterol, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia.....coincidence? I don't think so.

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

The comment about high cholesterol not being noted until the advent of TSH and synthroid is absolutely ludicrous.  Hypothyroidism is one cause of high cholesterol - but there are other causes and most often it has nothing to do with thyroid.

The synthroid dose is too low - if you are otherwise healthy would move to 75mcg and recheck in 6 weeks.  Target TSH is about 1.0.

Armour is an option if synthroid does not improve your symptoms, alternatively could add cytomel (T3) to synthroid.  Armour works well for some, not so well for others.....

[ancientmariner]

I did not say that high cholesterol had not been noted, as Dr. Barnes noted it in his book. What I DID say is that it wasn't considered a "health problem" until the 1970s. In 1973, the TSH test was created, and in 1976 Merck became interested in a Japanese study of statin drugs. Chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia were first noted in 1980. My contention is that the TSH test, which is flawed, has kept hypothyroid patients undermedicated since 1973, and has caused the creation of new diseases that most doctors say "can't possibly be related to your thyroid".
And in addition, the drug companies are making millions of dollars on drugs for these new conditions. Abbott Labs made $541.3 million in 2000 on Synthroid alone, yet in 1999, the NEJM published an article that indicates that people feel better on natural desiccated thyroid.

[mmfd]

AMEN!  Thank you so much.  Diuretics are also a cause of high cholesterol.  I get concerned when I see so many symptoms attributed to hypothyroidism by the Armour *natural* thyroid forum advocates.  Many of them are very vague and could easily be due to a totally unrelated medical problem.  Low body temp is usually just that, low body temp.  Mine has been 97.4 or so for years and I am now very hypERthyroid.  I had very thinning hair but am also on Coumadin and Coreg and figured that was why.  I had dry skin and an inability to lose weight, and was always tired and so on and so on, and I am VERY hypERthyroid!!  If doctors went by symptoms alone I would be dead from thyroid storm!  I am also concerned that some seem to be treating themselves by adjusting their own doses of Armour.  Correct me if I am wrong girls!  IMO, if it is true, it is irresponsible to mention it in a public forum where some folks with less knowledge read something and think it is gospel.  And, yes, people frequently believe whatever they read, and don't even question it!

[mshypo]

Your post comes across a bit odd to me.  For one thing, the medical literature is pretty clear on hypothyroid symptoms and it is a LONG list.  So if you have someone with low body temperature and several hypo symptoms....and their Free levels  are in the pits...well uh...it sort of makes sense to address that cause the probability is that the hypo symptoms they are experiencing are indeed due to their low thyroid hormones.  But it is true that medical professionals, just like you did, try to say that hypo symptoms are vague and can be due to something else.  But until you raise Free levels in a hypo person (not to going hyper of course), it just doesn't make sense to me to be running around trying to blame something else.  This is when the poor hypo folks start getting prescribed all the other medications...when all they need is just some more thyroid hormone.  

As for being "concerned" about Armour Thyroid advocates, i think you just don't get that they are enthusiastic about the product because it has eliminiated their hypo symptoms.  Speaking for myself, when you have suffered for so long and the quality of life was so affected, it is indeed a miracle to find that Armour thyroid and getting Free levels high enough...finally make your life worth living...and downright joyful.  So we want to share that good news whenever possible. Ya see, we are living a miracle in our eyes...a miracle we didn't know was possible because many of us were told your TSH is "normal" or "synthroid is the best hypo med"....and we found out after years of suffering, that it wasn't true.  

My other question to you regarding self medicating would be:  Is it better to let a doctor keep you sick and risk your health and evern death (where did you think all those women's heart disease cases were coming from anyway?) when you have the means to treat yourself and get well?  i think that is the dilemmna facing many in this day of the TSH.  If that was your choice, what would you choose?  

As for being irresponsible...I guess there's a lot of ways to look at that.  Some might think it's irresponsible Not to let others know that there are doctors who think the TSH lab is useless and that desiccated thyroid extract is the superior medication for hypothyroidism.  Just because someone else disagrees for whatever reason doesn't make those statements irresponsible.  The evidence is actually on the side of the Armour advocates when you examine this issue historically and anecdotally with an open mind. But pharmaceutical influence is quite strong with endos.  Is that a irresponsible statement?  Or a true one?  Would it be irresponsible to suppress that information?  Or should thyroid patients have access to all info?

[ancientmariner]

I'm just curious - what is your basis for your hypERthyroid diagnosis? And are you taking meds to suppress it? I'm just curious, because I had all the symptoms you mentioned (thinning hair, dry skin, inability to lose weight, always tired) and was hypOthyroid. These symptoms stayed for 3 years on Synthroid, but now on Armour, they have improved dramatically. My PCP told me I was hypER based solely on low TSH after I had been on Synthroid for 2 years. Of course, I believed him because, after all, he's a doctor and I'm not. But the reduction of my Synthroid dose made me so much more hypO I could barely get out of bed. After retesting, he ended up increasing me back to my original dose. Atthis point, I decided I had better start learning about thyroid myself, so this didn't happen again!

Many symptoms that my endo told me "could not possibly be thyroid-related" have been relieved by Armour, including carpal tunnel and arthritis symptoms. So it's hard for me to believe that they weren't thyroid related when taking thyroid hormone has relieved them.

As for self-treating, I don't believe I have seen anyone here state that they are self-treating. I am not - I found a wonderful naturopath who allows me to increase Armour as needed, using strict guidelines. I was hypER when this all started, and had my thyroid killed by RAI, and there's no way I want to overmedicate and feel that way again. But by the same token, I don't want to take so little that I don't feel well, either. I want to feel like ME again, and if self-treatment were the only option, then I would certainly consider it!

After suffering for 3 years, is it any wonder that I want to share word of the success of Armour with others?

[mmfd]

mshypo:  Of course I would advocate treating someone for hypothyroidism if their labS were abnormal and were doublechecked  4-6 weeks later.  Many of the symptoms that suggest hypothyroidism would probably improve.  I'm just saying that not all hypo symptoms are actually from the thyroid.  This echoes what Dr. Mark says also.  Even after being diagnosed with hypo, it is possible to have symptoms from something else!

A.M.:  I am glad to hear that your dose is adjusted according to strict guidelines.  I guess I just don't understand.  Oh, and my hyperthyroidism is due to a drug I used to be on called Amiodarone.  I was very surprised when they came in the CCU and told me I was hyper!  Hypo I would have believed in a flash!  In fact I asked the doctor why I hadn't been losing weight rapidly if I was so hyper!  My TSH was unmeasurable and my free T4 was 7 times normal.  I forget the other stuff except that the antibodies were normal twice.   My TSH is still only .008 THREE months later.  Well, let's all feel well and you both have a nice holiday season.