looking for good endo in St Louis, MO?

[vickidugg]

Can you recommend a few good endocrnologists anybody?

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

check out aace.com or thyroid.org

[Lynnetteb]

I live in the St. Louis area, and I just recently went to see a new doctor.  I my self messed around with my primary care physician and an endocrinologist in St. Louis for months.  I was feeling worse than ever. Both doctors insisted on synthroid, I have Hashimoto's (hypothyroid).  It was recomended to me to try Dr Wessling.  He is Creve Couer, I believe.  He is an md and and homeopathic dr.  He spent and hour and a half with me on my first visit, immediately switched me to Armour, and put me on some supplements such as, Omega 3, magnesium, and vitamin c. I've felt better this last week than I felt the whole time that I was on synthroid.  I would strongly recomend giving Dr. Wessling a try.  I don't have his number with me, but if you can't find it in the phone book, I can get it for you.  Good Luck!!!!!!!!

[HashiMan]

I know I'm fueling your ongoing debate and was determined not to but your coming in behind all posts to correct everyone about the superiority of Armour will happen anyway, so let me make some suggestions, then you can come behind me and demonstrate your brilliance again. BTW, what did your statement in the reply under Tarheel's post "puke on duke" mean? Also, AGAIN I saw a statement by you toward advice given by Dr. Mark, in regard to TSH to the effect "not as Dr. Mark is saying". I think it is absolutely incredible how far you are taking this obsession you have to impress your forum-group, or whatever that motivation is that makes you go beyond healthy debate, into that sarcastic, insult mode. Did you know that actually takes away from your credibility??
My suggestion is; Take the example of Ancientmariner, whom I respect because though she is just as loyal an Armour advocate as you are, she has been respectful, in the spirit of healthy debate. GUESS WHAT!! Many of us out here actually do believe Amour is a superior treatment for many people (very possibly MOST people) but here's the problem we currently have:
There absolutely MUST BE documentation that proves a medical issue (we are afterall talking about people's lives), that is more recognizable than "my group has found", "thousands of us out here", "it is my opinion", "it has been my experience" etc.... These are all important (especially to you) but they WILL NOT get the attention that actually counts.
What really is needed for "absolutes"??? Answer; You have to conduct actual "research studies", with CONCLUSIONS, that can be medically recognized. It cannot be a research study done by a forum group, within themselves. It would have to be a study with significant numbers of people (not members of a forum group who will obviously be viewed as "biased"). If you have time and effort to hop around to different forums, advocating the same thing continually, then put some of that effort and energy/time into such a study, that will be recognized! When you do that, I guarantee you will have much greater respect and attention for your agenda.
AGAIN, saying "my group of thousands has found", won't cut it. If you already have studies with conclusions, conducted by unbiased researchers, with unbiased patients, could you please give those to us, rather than the insults and cut-down remarks?

[mshypo]

geez hashi...what did I do to get you so upset at me?  
coming behind folks to post?...uh, maybe i've been busy and just haven't visited here for a while.  ya think?  and why are you posting to me in this thread anyway?  i didn't post anything here.  geez.  give me a break.  

puke on duke is what us tarheels say.  the reference is to Dr. Mark saying "go Duke" to the tarheel poster.  

Not quite sure what you mean about needing studies and all about armour.  Hello?  Armour has been around for over 100 years.  There were lots of studies and case histories...just not much since the TSH and synthetics.  Spend a few weeks reading here:  www.thyroidhistory.net which is a compilation of historical data, etc.  quite interesting.  And read all the great thyroid docs - Derry, Barnes, Peatfield...the ones who were in practice forever and got their hypo patients well - and not with a TSH test.

See - you're saying we need to REPROVE Armour is superior.  that's silly.  It's already been proven.  It worked fine.  Folks didn't have the problems they do today synthetics.  End of story.  What are you missing about that?  

now - sorry to come off a bit sarcastic.  Don't really mean anything that personal.  You seem like a nice guy.  And I'm a Christian gal too.  But you're just a little to eager to kiss up to the medical profession.  And I'm just not gonna do that anymore.  I said "yes sir" and Yes madam" to the medical profession for most of my life.  See- that's because I saw them all the time with my "normal" TSH.  In and out of GPs and specialists offices all the time.  So I know that kind of attitude can kill you and keep you sick.  Also cost you lots of dollars.  And I just hate to see it happening to other folks...and when they ask for help, i tell them what will help.  Sorry that offends you.  well actually, I'm not.  I'm more concerned with helping those folks with miserable hypo symptoms because they're on a T4 synthetic med. Shame on me, huh?

[HashiMan]

Thanks for proving my point! A "bit sarcastic" is a huge understatement and again, you took the opportunity to do the same thing again.
Here again, you go from the actual point, into your predisposed position, that just automatically pops out, no matter what some else is saying.
Did I say Armour wasn't proven? Did I say it needs "reproved" (you're right, that is silly). Did I bring up anything about "TSH"?
What medical professionals am I "kissing up to"? Are you talking about Dr. Mark, the only medical person you are aware of, that I have supported (shame on him for helping patients)?
How about this question; Who makes this forum you come on to, to put forth your opinions, possible??????????
What do you find so wrong with Dr. Mark, who VOLUNTEERS his time on here?
I know you'll still shoot past this but let me give it one more try.>> The point is not to prove Armour works well, this IS NOT the problem. The problem is in saying it is superior in every case, for each patient and that Synthroid/synthetics ALWAYS "keep people sick", causes "osteoporosis and high cholesterol" etc... You mention Dr.s who have written about this, I've read ALL OF THEM (you listed) but this is not the "medically recognizable" conclusions that will get attention/cause change! In fact without the documentation I listed in previous post, the rest of the medical community sees these other Dr.s as "quazi-psuedo".
By my stating it needs medically documented, is not a kiss-up to medical community, it is because "PATIENTS" can't benefit, if it doesn't first go through medical channels (if it's a condition that must have medical treatment). It is disheartening to patients when you cause them to lose confidence in treatments they are already on!!
I say KEEP pushing to get info out you believe in but to extend that into huge accusations against the other treatments will backfire on you and the 'taking shots' at people in a sneaky way and other times directly insulting them, cheapens your campaign. Why are you not seeing this??
I'll end in your style; "geeze, ya think so?, huh"

[mshypo]

why are you attacking me?  
I had not even posted in this thread...and you start up on me for no reason that I am aware of.  
I have answered your accusations about me.  There's not much more I can do.  
You obviously don't like the message you're hearing from several posters here...and for some reason decided to take it out on me.  

Yes, I suppose I do come off as sarcastic.  Maybe it's my age.  I'm 50 years old and I wasted far too much of my life (and money) listening to doctors tell me your thyroid is "normal".  So I don't pussyfoot around.  I say it like i see it.  I'm blunt.  Direct.  To the point.  As in "armour works" or "drop the T4 med, get on Armour".  Either people "get it" or they don't.  It's fine with me either way.  It's their health. At least I won't feel guilty for not having spoke.

And speaking of studies, have you seen that study where when they first made synthetics, they compared synthetics versus desiccated thyroid extract to see if synthetics were better before they started giving it to everyone?  

Also, ever wonder why if desiccated thyroid extract was working...why they would even make a synethic?  you ever think about these things?

[mshypo]

btw, i have nothing against Dr. Mark.  He actually mentions Armour and that is a heck of a lot more than the vast majority of endos.  He's a rare endo for doing that actually.   And I've enjoyed reading this forum and learning from his posts.  Great info about lots of thyroid issues. Do I agree with him on everything?  No. Does he know everything there is to know about hypothyroidism?  I would still say no.  Does that make me disrespectful? No, it doesn't.

[HashiMan]

I do appreciate what you said in those last two posts. I thank you too for saying that about Dr. Mark and simply supporting a Dr. in certain areas does not mean we agree with them on everything.
Also, I didn't know about the study you mention but would go a long way with me, if it was conducted as one is supposed be. Would you have a link for that one? I'm not being argumentative by asking that, I really would love to read one with significant conclusions and am asking in sincerity.
Please don't be hurt by my former statements, I didn't mean to be attacking, I hope you believe that.
I too am of Christian Faith and am sorry I came across harshly, forgive me for any offenses I brought to you. I never like disagreements that turn into hurts, it puts a terrible feeling inside me.
What I say to you, I want to say to everyone on here; I commit to never become argumentative to that point again, I'll drop off the forum again before I'll do that. I hope everyone can express disagreements in a more polite way because as I said before "healthy debate" actually helps bring perspective.
To give you an idea of where I actually stand, in a statement; I would suggest natural to synthetic to a patient 100% of the time.

[mshypo]

Thanks...i appreciate the kind words.  Honestly, I did not mean to offend you by anything...but i guess I posted something that hit you wrong.  I certainly don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but I can see where my direct manner might come across that way.  But i'll try to watch it in the future.

Now - about that study I asked you about.  Hashi, there wasn't one.  That's the point of the question.  Armour thyroid had been used for over 100 years successfully.  And when they formulated a synthetic thyroid hormone, there were absolutely NO studies done to see if the synthetic worked as well as the desiccated thyroid extract.  Does that make sense to you?  I mean they were exchanging a product with T4, T3, T1, T2 and calcitonin for a T4 only medication.

The way I see it, it was not that Armour wasn't working. It was working quite well.  But the pharmaceutical companies needed something new with a patent because that would be high $$$ for them.  And that's how we got Synthroid...a more expensive patented synthetic chemical hormone.  

It was supposed to be wonderful and scientific and they came up with the TSH test that was supposed to work wonderful too. Which by the way no one did any studies comparing whether treating hypo by symptoms worked as well (a happy and well patient that is) as treating them by the TSH number.  

So I guess I get a little agitated when someone starts talking about studies and such.  There is no science that shows synthetics are better FOR THE PATIENT than desiccated thyroid extract...in fact the historical and current anectodal evidence is in favor of Armour.  

there are lots of stories of folks who were doing just fine on Armour and when synthetics came out, their docs told them how wonderful this new drug was and switched them...and then the patients later begged to be put back on Armour.  

Honest to goodness, Hashi...it's the best choice for hypothyroidism.  Now you would say that it doesn't work for everyone.  Sorry, I just haven't met that person yet.  But I've met dozens of folks for who T4 meds don't do the job.  

anyway, I'm running on and on here.  but let's be friends.  God's children shouldn't be against each other i don't think.  I'll try to watch my words in the future.

[vickidugg]

Thanks for the info. I looked in the phonebook. Is it Christian Wessling in Webster Groves??? He is MD/Family practice. If not can you give me the correct phone#
Again thanks for the input.

[Lynnetteb]

Yes,  that is him.  He is a family dr, but he is a homeopathic physician, so his approach was more thorough than a regular md.  He looked at the whole picture.  He looks at supplements that help too.  It's helped me so much.  If you need anymore info just let me know.  I would be happy to help.  Good Luck.
You'll love him.  I feel better in 3 weeks on Armour than I ever did on Synthroid.  Good Luck.

[AK19]

I recently started seeing an endo at Barnes Jewish, Dr. Simon Fisher.  He specializes in thyroid disorders...not just diabetes!!  He spent over an hour in the room w/ me on the initial appointment and I liked him very much.  I was hyper then did RAI and now hypo.  During the initial appointment I brought up the standard issues educated patients have regarding thyroid testing and replacement drugs...Dr. Fisher was very open to any testing I was requesting such as tsh, ft4, and ft3 etc.  He was not arrogant by any means, genuinely felt he actually wanted to help me feel human again.

Hope this helps!!

[Pelini]

Hi, just wondering if anyone has any suggestions out there for me.  I started out 9/05 with a tender spot near my Thyroid area but did not think much of it.. then got hoarse later in the week. The next week went to my GP and he thought Thyroid at first but tests came back neg. Gave me antibiotics thinking throat infection, they did nothing. Went to ENT. had endocope X2 and neg. he thinks Thyroid and sends me to Endo. She said I had Thyroiditis. She said Thyroid was swollen but hugely.
In 10/05 I feel like a lump in throat and cannot swallow it.. Had MRI of neck=neg.  Had barrium swallow= neg. Have had 2 ultrasounds(one was uptake scan which my numbers were so low they could not even do it, but they did and showed chronic thyroiditis they said. Meanwhile in 12/05 I start feeling pain in my thyroid when I yawned,coughed etc and I start to feel pressure on windpipe/esoghphus.  I was put on prednsone 40mg X 5 days then tapered off for 6 weeks.. All the prednisone did was take the pain away.. Then I started getting uneven swelling in my neck from my collar bone up for the last 6 weeks or so.  My Endo says the Pred could cause fat pads  but I do not think these are fat pads..because I also feel alot of tightness in my neck and that has to come from the swelling. Then I demanded a FNA to rule out Riedels thyroiditis. the FNA came back non fibrous, not sure if a FNA can really diagnose Riedels.. The second ENT says she saw some acid reflux in next scope and gave me nexium.. not buying the GERD DX either as I do not think the Gerd would make my neck to the point it is.. My thyroid test were normal in Sept/Oct.then in Dec my TSH went down to 0.09 which is very low and then 2 weeks later my TSH went up to 1.88 then 4 weeks later and my last test my TSH was 3.44 I went to the "Top Thyroid Surgeon" asking him to do an open biopsy but he did not want to he said all he would do would be cut the isthmus to relieve the compression on the windpipe. Any help would be appreciated.. P.S. how do you post a question to Dr. Mark.. everytime I try it says not taking questions at this time.  I would love for Dr. Mark to read this and get his opinion. I have lived with this uncomfortableness for almost 5 mos.and need relief..

[NURSELPN]

For some reason the site is ot accepting new questions right now. Maybe Dr. Mark is out of town???? But keep trying & if you post this as a question he will give you an answer. ok
Good Luck, Jean

[HashiMan]

I wanted to give you guys Tabtool's web address. Her thyroid pages, are for information purposes and are well put together. The website is of course non-profit and contains really good info., plus tools for helping get thyroid info out to others.
Here's that link, you must type it in EXACTLY as I list it:

http://earthlink.net/~tabtools/TAB.htm

I hope everyone on here will make a visit to the site!

[HashiMan]

I'm so sorry, I left a word out of that link!
Please note the corrected address below!!

http://home.earthlink.net/~tabtools/TAB.htm

(The one in the above post won't get you there, this one will!)

[miraclemom5]

Hello i am new here but i see dr.breckenridge at Center for advanced medicine at barnes jewish and they have been just great with me. And trust me i have been very bad at times but they always catch it and always know how to fix it or at least try.she is very compassionate a caring.
hope this helps.

[NURSELPN]

There's a new post below that you would probably be better to address about adrenal problems...posted by a symptomatic student RN. Post is below...Jean

Q: Hypothyroidism, Hypoparathyroidism and Kidney Pain - Layny 01/15/2006
A: Hypothyroidism, Hypoparathyroidism and Kidney Pain - Forum-M.D.-ML 01/15/2006

[HashiMan]

I wanted to let you know I replied to RNstudent's post in the thread with the heading about parathyroid glands & adrenals.

NurseLPN,
I wonder what will happen when these threads get so filled up, there's no space anymore? You may remember Dr.Mark was on vacation last year and this same thing happened but could be a different reason this time, hard to know with Med-Help not filling us in but they're not obligated to explain or to even have this forum. Even if it changes, I appreciate the time they gave us.
Maybe you and I can get in communication, through the tabtool website, if this forum is discontinued.

[HashiMan]

A link I found on a National Institutes of Health website, cites conclusions from three studies that confirmed that Hashimoto's patients, can develop "anxiety disorders", in addition to depression, even before actual hypothyroidism sets in!  
They list "Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder and Social Phobia" in that list. What this confirms for me, is the fact that the "antibodies" themselves cause these, apart from low-thyroid hormone. The same difference would be true of a patient taking thyroid replacement, yet still having elevated antibody levels. They may still experience the above emotional problems and is why in my opnion, Dr.s should not claim  patients emotional disorders are not thyroid disease-related, simply because their hormone levels are at "normal" levels. That link>>
www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1308833

[mmfd]

I guess Dr. Mark is still out of town??  I hope the forum won't be shut down.  I have a question for all you out there!  As some may remember, I was very hyperthyroid from Amiodarone.  I was initially on PTU 150 mg. three times a day, since about Labor Day.  Gradually, very gradually, my TSH came up.  When I reached a TSH of 10, my PTU was again lowered to 150 mg per day.  MY TSH reached 16 a couple of weeks ago, and my PTU was lowered to 50 mg/day.  How long does it take for the TSH to gp back to normal?  My next labs are in about 2 weeks and I expect the endo to finally stop the PTU.  He does expect my thyroid to return to normal, as I don't have Graves or Hashim.  We will see, but in the meantime I have gained a little weight and am panic stricken.  I have no other symptoms.  Can anyone guess?  TIA.

[mmfd]

Is anyone willing to help me??

[NURSELPN]

mmfd,
I don't know any answers for you but, try e-mailing this person. She has done extensive research on thyroid disorders.
***@****
She would be better prepared to help you.
                        Good Luck, Jean

[ancientmariner]

I have heard of people being on PTU for a while who then end up hypo. Apparently the PTU suppression of the thyroid winds up being permanent and they end up on thryoid replacement for the rest of their lives. Is it possible this is what happened to you? How long will your doctor wait for your thyroid to "restart"?

[sindylou]

hi i wrote here in 05 but no one got back to me please can any one tell me if these tsh results are normal.  TSH.5   T415.3  THAT WASIN JUNE AND HERE ARE THE TESTS DONE JANUARY06    0.146  AND T4.14-----I HAVE HYPERTHYRIOD SYMPTOMS MY GP SAYS THAT IAM NORMAL  I LIVE IN ENGLAND ALSO CAN YOU TELL ME YOUR RANGE FOR THESE RESULTS. THANKS SINDYLOU

[HashiMan]

Your first TSH reading looked to be borderline low or very close to borderline and your second one was below normal, which usually indicates hyperthyroidism.
TSH usually has the lower range set at from 0.3 to 0.5 and the upper range is from about 3.0 to 5.0, depending on the lab.
Your second reading was below normal, even at that lower cut-off range. I've read on UK thyroid websites and this was true for theirs as well. Somewhat different standards apply to people already on thyroid hormone medication.
It doesn't surprize me that your Dr. states nothing to be wrong. It has been incredible to me, how often I hear the stories of people with obvious abnormals on lab results, that are told everything is "normal". Can't explain this trend but no for a fact its been going on for years.
My guess has always been that some Dr.s are overbooked, short on time and lacking the compassion needed to serve in the health profession.

[nelsonchatham]

no one has been answering questions here in so long that i guess they have shut down this section.  there's a great new site at www.stopthethyroidmadness.com that has forums for questions.  perhaps some people could get help there.

[ancientmariner]

I've been checking it out - looks like a great site to get thyroid information! I would recommend it!

[UpThatHill]

I hope these provide some qualified research that you both were missing in your previous conversation.

Here is a excellent study on T4 and T3 thyroid meds like Armour. You'll need to set up a free account with NEJM to read the entire thing.  Here is a link to the abstract.
"Effects of thyroxine as compared with thyroxine plus triiodothyronine in patients with hypothyroidism."

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/340/6/424

Also, here is another study that specifically assesses Armour Thyroid. Open Adobe Acrobat first

"Sub-laboratory hypothyroidism and the empirical use of Armour thyroid"

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/9/2/157.pdf

Take care,
UpThatHill

[UpThatHill]

Are you in NC? If so, where? I am in Raleigh and looking for a docs who are open to Armour. If you are in the Triangle area, who have you found? Thanks for sharing.

UpThatHill