thyroid meds.

[hashi]

I was diagnosed with low thyroid function,and put on .25mg. of synthroid and that worked for about 3 1/2 yrs. Then I started to feel yucky again. Then doctor did a antibody test and found out I have hasimoto disease. Then further found out I have wilson temp. syndrome also. I'm off synthroid and treating my low temp. with straight T3 and got my temp. up, so now I am weaning myself off of T3. My question is will I be put back on my synthroid for my hashimoto disease and on some T3 to keep my temp. at bay. I'm not feeling quite up to par and I have read that taking some T4 and some T3 will usually help you feel better.I'm not working because I want to hopefully feel much better before I go back and who would hire some one who has good days and bad days? Another thing I noticed is that my blood pressure is lower than it used to be 3 weeks ago especially the diastolic number.It went from 70-80 down to 50's.I have been gauging my diseases by symptoms not tests results which to me is better. Just because a number says your levels are in normal range doesn't mean you feel well. If you could shed some light on my situation before I go to my doctor.

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

May be that a combo of t3/t4 will be best for you -- I would not likely put you back on synthroid alone given your history of not doing well with that recently (presuming that you are feeling better with some T3).  With the low BP - check cortisol level to exclude the unlikely adrenal insufficiency.

[ArmourGal]

There are those who think Wilson's Syndrome is just another way of saying "hypothyroid".  In fact he has received considerable criticism for naming a syndrome that is just symptoms already common to hypothyridism.  Hypo folks often have a low temperature and have trouble converting T4 to T3, etc, so they often need T3 anyway.  If you do a bit of research, you'll find the "success" rate of Wilson's protocol is quite low.  And I assume that's because these folks being diagnosed with Wilson's are just plain old hashi's/hypo.

That being said, I believe a lot of hypos do better with the addition of T3.  I take Armour Thyroid, desiccated thyroid extract which has All the thyroid hormones plus calcitonin (for bones) and I think it's nothing less than a miracle drug.  It has eliminated all my hypo symptoms and given me back my life.
Cindi
  

[constellation]

I am on T4 medication for 2 weeks now as I am newly diagnosed with hashimoto's.

I have most of the classic symptoms of hypothyroid. but i also have another symptom that's not quite hypo, ie rapid heartbeat / heart palpitations at night or when I just wake up in the morning.

My question is, would it be safe for me to switch to Armour if I have symptoms of heart palpitations already?

[ArmourGal]

your question about armour and you already having heart palpitations is one best addressed by the doc - so i hope he might see it and comment.  

however I can tell you that my observation of dozens of thyroid forum folks has shown that many have heart palpitations just from hypo and that the Armour has helped them in the long run with the palps, although they had to go slower on reaching their optimal dose because of already having the heart palp problem.   It's a funny thing - the heart problems start because of the lack of T3...and then it's difficult correcting the problem with the T3 because the heart has gotten so weak and often enlarged.  

Also, many hypos have MVP (mitral valve prolapse) which can cause some heart symptoms.  

But again, I think anything heart related needs to be carefully followed and monitored to be sure there is nothing else going on and that indeed it is just a manifestation of untreated/undertreated hypothyroidism.
cindi

[ArmourGal]

Two other things that might be causing some of your symptoms...which seem to be common with hypos, are low Ferritin (iron storage) and/or adrenal dysfunction.  So that is also something to think about having checked.
cindi

[hashi]

I thought I did enough research on wilson's temp. syndrome. I got it from his web site and found it helpful to me, so I thought. My temp. is staying on average above 98.0 as I am weaning myself off it.Hoping it will stay up there for awhile.
It was a naturapathic doctor that I went to out of curosity that suggested that my temp. could be part of my unwell feelings.All I want is to feel better like I did when I first went on synthroid 4 years ago right after the death of my husband.I would say I am feeling about 70% better since I was before my thyroidism started giving me problems again.When I started feeling lousy at that time that's when my doc thought hey we'll jusy increase her synthroid and she/ll feel better. Well my thyroid was being over stimulated and tried to get to see my doctor for three days and was put off by his wife who happens to be his recetionist. So I decided to go see the naturopathic doc to tell him how I felt and when he saw me and took my blood pressure, it was something like 184/100something. He told me I was headed for a stroke or heart attack and to quite all my meds til my blood pressure came down. Boy was I pissed at my docs wife. She kept telling me to relax and have a friken cup of tea, meanwhile I was jumping out of my skin. The only complaint I had when I went to see my doc before he increased my synthroid was that I was feeling a little more tired than usual. Well two days after quitting my meds as told by naturopathic I ended  up in emergency feeling very unfunctional and hopeless. The doctors there were not impressed that I was told to actually quit all my meds. I am on propranalol for heart palps, clonazipam for 19 years of anxiety,
very tramatic birth experience, hormones for meopause,which happened same time thyroid acted up, and of course my synthroid.
needless to say it tooke me awhile to feel better after that one.The thing is I don't feel safe in my docs care sometimes, but he is more knowledgeable in the bio-identical hormone area, which is what my meno meds are. I think he thinks I'm a hypocondriac at times. but I feel I have alot at stake her,right my life, or am I exaggerating.I'm depressed because I had to quit work because I found out I have osteoarthritis in my spine and it was getting difficult to work. Got that feeling better through exercise and then thyroid acts up. Been off work for a year and going bananas, besides having one daughter(21) moving out of province and my youngest (19) moving out, in same city, having a new husband and trying to get him to understand this whole hypo thing is all going to give me a nervous
breakdown I feel some days. Anyway I've gone on long enough. I'm glad I came across this web site. It's good to talk to someone with the same disease. I feel there is not enough support out there for us and right now I feel I need alot of support. I live in Brandon,Manitoba, Canada. By the way Dr., I will suggest the cortisol to my doc and see if I can get some where.Thanks

[hashi]

By the way where do you get all your info from? I thought I checked out dome good websites, but maybe I haven't.

[ArmourGal]

As for where I get my info, I have read every book on the market about hypo (about a dozen), Werner & Ingbar's "The Thyroid" (a clinical text), a few psychiatric books on the thyroid gland, read PubMed abstracts and medical journal articles and probably everything to be found on the Internet...plus, I've been a member of yahoo's Natural Thyroid Hormone internet forum for over a year which is I think is the most informed group available.  Many members have studied different aspects of hypothyroidism and are quite knowledgeable.  It's hard to beat "listening to the patient" to really learn about this disease.  I think that's one big problem - doctors have been trained to look at labs and diagnose...and I think often they don't even realize that a patient complaint is still a hypo one because they really don't know the vast array of symptoms.

Oddly enough, back in 2004 I had given up on ever being diagnosed hypo...and had gone for an evaluation for Wilson's Syndrome myself after reading his site.  The ENT I went too was a friend of Dr. Wilson's...and he told me that he had told Denis that the folks that thought they were "Wilson's syndrome" were just plain old hypo folks...and he of course told me I probably was too..and sure enough, i had thyroid antibodies and my TSH had finally (15 years of checking it) risen high enough to receive a hypo diagnosis.  So for sure, many of Wilson's folks probably feel better with the addition of T3...but my understanding is that many of them just have to repeat the protocol time and time again.  And I'm like "duh"...if they're hypo, they need T3 too.  
cindi

[hashi]

Thanks for your input. Guess there is alot of reference out there for us, I just have to keep looking.I bought a book today called The Thyroid Solution. I heard its a good book. But anything to make money from a book,right. I go to my doc tomorrow and we'll see what he says about where to go from here when I'm completely off T3.  I will suggest a cortisol level to see if that's what causing my low blood pressure like suggested by Forum M.D. Thanks. You know when you're having a good few days and its great and then you have some bad days, that's when I get depressed. You just want the normal feeling back in your life. I just got remarried on Sept. 24 and have had alot of not so good days (crying spells), what a way to start a marriage, poor guy. Ihaven't educated him on the hasimoto yet. He thinks that if my temp. is above 98.0, that's good, well I guess from his point  it is, but I tell him we have to sit and He has to be educated about what else is really going on with me. He's trying but not sure he understands completely why his wife is crying so much, moody etc.

Take care and will let you know how I make out at the doc.

Hashi

[hashi]

Igo to see my doc today about our next move after I'm off T3.
My concern this morning is that When I took my blood pressure at 8:00 a.m. it was 88/50. Went back to sleep til 10:00 and took it before getting out of bed again and it was only 86/47.
What's going on? I'm scared to death. I know I see my doc today but I'm really worried. This is the lowest it's been.  Help!

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

The low BP is not necessarily dangerous -- many cardiologists say that the BP is too low only if it consistently causes dizziness when you stand up --- if the BP is not symptomatic, the lower the better usually.

[hashi]

I went to my doc yesterday. He said yes that the blood pressure is okay if unless I get dizzy or lightheaded or fainting spells. I have't had any of these. It's just that when you see a diastolic of 43 you would be concerned, I said to him. About my meds, he said when I'm finished them to watch my temp., make sure it doesn't go down and watch my symptoms. If I start to have any problems, we will have some blood work done and go from there,just to see what the levels are at. He's realizing to go by my symptoms now and not by numbers finally, hopefully. I asked him about my level of hashimoto antibodies and he said they were very low. I don't have as severe  symptoms as alot of you do but anything can happen right. Here's to hope. Sorry I didn't know you could only ask 2 questions in a six month period. I guess I missed seeing that somewhere. I greatly apalogize.

[hashi]

This is for anyone that can shed some light on this low blood pressure that is only low when I take it before I get up in the morning? Sorry to be stuck in this one but I was talking to a guy who said his mothers blood pressure got so low that her heart just quit. What if my blood pressure drops very low through the nite. I'm sorry to be stuck with this but when he said that it got me to thinking. Okay, so I'm a hypocondriac, but if anyone can give some input into this really big dilemma I am having, I would appreciate something.  It's okay during the day. Would alot of exercise help to get the blood flowing better so it isn't so low in the morning? Maybe the propranalol is reducing my heart rate too much. I haven't had any heart palps for about a month and maybe should reduce the dosage?

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

talk to your doc about decreasing the propanolol - that sounds reasonable

[PNWBabe]

Hi Hashi!

I would look in to taking a saliva test to see if your low blood pressure is being caused by adrenal insufficiency. There are several well respected labs that you can order this test yourselfand get a good comprehensive report back.

Low blood pressure as low as you have it should concern you even if it didn't concern your doctor. In my experience, it seems that we are being forced to stay ill so that others may stay busy. Good total overall health should be the goal. Not staying sick due to the incompetence of others.

PNWBabe

[hashi]

Thank you for your input about my blood pressure. Like I said it is that low when I take before getting out of bed after just waking up. During the day when I'm up and around it can goes as high as 134/80. I talked to a nurse on a med link phone number and she said when you are asleep your blood pressure drops because you are inactive.I read in  my book The Thyroid solution it can go low while you are asleep. When my diastolic goes down into the 50's, even 40's that one time that means my heart isn't expanding like it should. To me that's not good.
I feel that my doctors going to write me off when I go to him about things that I think are an issue and he doesn't. I don't know what to do. It is causing me alot of anxiety, I had to go to a mental health services and get linked up with a intake worker. I'm hoping to hear from them on Tuesday who I see.
I don't know if my doctor will do these tests or things mentioned by everyone. I hate to stop seeing him because he is fairly knowlegable in the area of bioindetical hormones, which is what I take. Then there is getting past his wife,(his receptionist). She'll ask you what's wrong and she'll say well the doctor will probably say such and such. Last time like I said When I got no response when my thyroid was over stimulated from increase in med  I ended up in emergency. I don't know of any good doctors in Brandon.Some days I'm really afraid for my health. Is it that he can't be bothered or he thinks I'm a hypocondriac, or it costs too much money to do these tests.
HELP!!!!!!

[PNWBabe]

I get so tired of doctors who think that we (women) are hypocrondriacs.grrrrrr. We are there asking, sometimes begging for help and we get told it's nothing, or we are too worried, or some other way to placate us. Then we are told that we should take this anti anxiety medication or antidepressant. HA! From my experience and reading, it sounds like you have some kind of adrenal issue going on and it would benefit you to look in to a 24 hour saliva test for cortisol. You might also benefit from a support group, something like the natural thyroid group on yahoo. Hang in there, don't give up and if this doctor isn't helping you, remember, he is YOUR employee, YOU are paying to see him and if you don't like his care, find someone who will treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve.

PNWBabe

[hashi]

I'm going back to my doctor today because I want to decrease my propranalol. It's leaving kind of lifeless. Sometimes its hard to get enough air to yawn properly and I have to take alot of breaths just to feel relaxed. It's a hard thing to explain, but it's slowing my heart rate too low I think. I feel tired, but not the thyroid tired kind. I got onto another website where people are feeling some of the things I am from the propranalol.I'm afraid to take it at bedtime in case it slows my heart rate too low. I don't have the energy I used to have, and like I say its not from my throid,I can distinguish the difference. I will mention the adrenal thing and I want a whole lab worup because I haven't had one for three months since I started my thyronine ( natural T3). Yeh, its like take this and hope its gets your temperature up and then when you wean yourself off it we'll do some lab work. I tell somedays, as you say gggggggrrrrrrr!!!!! Thanks for being so sympathetic. Who else is right. Sorry don't mean to knock you down Dr. Mark, you gave me some good advice ,more than I got from my own doctor.
Wish me luck!!!!!

[hashi]

I went to the doc today and got him to send me for a cortisol test. I also got him to decrease my propranalol to 30mg instead of 40 mg.  Let's see if tha helps. I see him in two weeks for cortisol test results and to see if the decrease in propranalol helped. God I hope so! Like people with thyroid disease they only want their lives back!!! Talk to yuou later.

[PNWBabe]

Your body seems to be crying out for all thyroid hormones, not just straight T3. You might consider researching natural dessicated thyroid. What type of cortisol testing is your doctor going to do? Think about joining a support group, like the yahoo natural thyroid group. It's a very active group and doesn't limit posts!

[hashi]

thanks for your comment. The requisition just says collect 1 SST tube. Is that a saliva test. This is new to me. Why do you say my body is crying out for more hormones more than just T3?
Something I noticed this morning before I went to the doctor was when I went to check my b.p. and pulse, I checked it while standing up and pulse was 99. Took it sitting down and dropped to 74. Everytime I stood up up it went, one time to 104. I had my finger on my  pulse on my neck and as I stood up I could feel it go up. What the heck is going on. I missed a dose of propranalol two days in a row .Could that be it. I.M AFRAID TO REDUCE IT NOW. cAN ANYBODY OUT THERE SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS BEFORE i GO CRAZY.  Thanks again PNWBabe

[PNWBabe]

That drop in pulse/BP is a sign of adrenal issues. The one tube test I am not familiar with and not sure what they pinpointdiscover with one draw at one point in time. A 24 hour saliva test from ZRT labs or Great Smokies Labs would give you more information. If it was me, I would be seeking out more help! Have you been doing any research on your own?

[hashi]

Thanks again for your input for my situation.My doc said he didn't think it is a adrenal problem, but we'll check it any way. That was his ***** remark. I hear that alot, I don't think its this or I don't think its that.It was a cortisol blood test that they did. One in a.m. and one in p.m. No, I haven't really done any research on the adrenal problems. I guess I should. These saliva tests, can you get them for home and have the results done at home? I'm getting near the end of my rope. I called my doctor yesterday just before lunch because I had a full tight feeling in my chest and his wife his (his receptiomist) said well I don't know what to do he's just getting ready to leave,and finally put him on the phone.I told him what was happening and he says come in tommorow and we'll send you for a chest xray. Alot of good it did me at that time. It lasted about half an hour and worried me. If it was a heart problem he obviusly didn't give a damn. Sorry I had enough. My anxiety level is getting high and is not helping my health at all.Anyway enough, I'll quit rambling. Sure he's busy, but I thought as a patient, I was to be cared for. I think he is tired of me and my problems and that's causing me to be depressed. I have to go have another good cry. Later Babe

[ancientmariner]

I hear you!!! I think that's the big problem with a lot of doctors today - they don't really care about us as people, we're just $$$ to them. I was at the pediatrician's office recently (a large group which my son's doctor just joined) and I heard the receptionist and a nurse talking about him - about how SLOW he was. He had only seen a few patients that day, in comparison to other doctors. The nurse says, well, that comes from being in private practice - he likes to take the time to talk with his patients, but he'll learn soon enough.

That seems to be the attitude with most of the doctors (and nurses) I've seen lately. The ones that actually take time to listen to you cost a lot, and generally don't take insurance. So, what do you do?

[hashi]

My doctor has his own private practice.and still doesn't take the time he should with his patients. I had him send me for a chest xray because I want to find out if there is anything going on with my heart or lungs or whatever. It kind of feels like ashma type symptoms,sime tightness, can't get a full breath in my lungs, feeling stuffed up frrom my head down into my chest. An awful feeling. Seems to come and go. I.m not going to give up til I find out what is going on.He'snot that busy that he can't take the time to find out what's wrong. He says come back in 2 weeks, sorry doc you've got one week and I will have the results of my cortisol and chest xray and will have been off my thyronine for a week. If my temp. going to drop and symptoms come back a week is sufficient I feel.See you then Doc. THANKS AGAIN AND YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!!!

[ancientmariner]

By the way, asthma symptoms and shortness of breath/tight chest can also be symptoms of hypothyroid. And so is depression and low BP and lots of other things!! You are hypo and need meds. Good luck to you - it's so hard when you can't find a doctor who will actually treat you, but just gives you antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds and sends you on your way.....when I was on propranolol, the pharmacist told me to stop taking it if my heart rate got below 60 - how is your heart rate? Have you checked out the Natural Thyroid hormones group on Yahoo? There is a lot of good information there....

[hashi]

I just finished ready your comment and now I'm sitting here crying because I don't know what to do anymore.As for my heart rate I take it before I get out of bed after waking up and its anywhere from the 50's and up. I talked to a registered nurse on medlink and she said your heart rate is at its lowest when you are asleep and of course when you wake up and don't get out of bed it will be low??????? During the day, I take my resting heart rate and it can once in awhile be in the 50's but usually in the 60's and higher. I feel like I'm going to have a nervous breakdown My doctor thinks that if my temp. stays up and I feel fine I shouldn't need any thyroid meds. I'm hypothryoid, I need some kind of thyroid med. With my hashimoto disease, I would think I would need some thyroid support of some kind, but it sounds like he feels I may not. To me over time that is going to make me get worse over time.My body is destroying what hormones I have left, so I should need some form of hormone replacement??????? Maybe I should just go back to the doctor that I saw who is also a naturopathic just to get his opinion on all of this. He is also a medical practicioner. I just want to crawl away in a hole and stay there. My body could slowly be being destroyed because my doctor thinks I.m just ******* fine.I'm not going to bore you anymore with my problems. Have a good day! Thanks

[hashi]

I went down to talk to the doctor who was the naturopathic on Friday. He was not there so I talked to his female associate. She helped me alot. I asked her for her opinion. For one she said to try and go off the propranalol that she feels I don't really need it because one night I had a palpitaion and don't need it for high blood pressure,also  she explained the tests results that the naturopathic doc got from doc.She says my estrogen levels are high because I'm probably on too much estrogen.All I was having was hot flashes when my doc put me on it.Normal range for me postmenopausal is 100-150,my is 273.01, my pregesterone level is 12,7 and normal for postmenopausal is .6-2.6,TSHis .41, freeT4 is 15.2, my anti thyroglobulin antibodies is 7 and my TPO is 63. I understand those a little bit more. She suggested I get  atotal thyroid panel done because I have't had one done since June, which is bull !!!!!!!.There is obviously some meds I can reduce or not need to be on at all. SO I WENT STRAIGHT TO MY DOCTORS OFFICE AND SAID TO HIS WIFE TO TELL HIM I WANT A REQUISITION FOR A THYROID PANEL AND GOT IT.When I called to see if he had my cortisol results, she says to me there were normal, where the ***** heck is patientdoctor confidentiality, sure not in that office,and how does she know normal. No wonder my mind and body is so screwed up. I'm seeing a pshychologist on wed. and he is going to hear everything.I'm making another apptment with my doc for Thurs. to get my results and not leaving there til I am satisfied, and I want a copy of my test results like the other doc gave me so I could show my husband. He couldn't believe it. Im angry now. Today I walked a mile and I that was as far as I could go.Iuse to bike 5-15 miles with hubby and now whatever is wrong is leaving me so out of shape, I feel like an 80 yr, old woman not 50. Anyway I guess we have to get mad and really push to get some satifaction. Here goes     Hashi

[ancientmariner]

I don't think you need to see a psychiatrist. And beware - many of the anti-depressant meds contain lithium or fluoride, both of which suppress thryoid function - so if you take them you could make yourself feel even worse. I really think you need to stick with a doctor who will treat your thyroid. You'd be surprised how many symptoms can be associated with thyroid dysfunction, yet doctors don't diagnose it, and give us all the other meds. There's a natural thyroid hormones group on Yahoo that I also belong to - there are some very knowledgeable folks there who have gone through what you're going through, and have done a lot of research and have gotten well! You might want to check them out, too.

[hashi]

i FOUND THE WEBSITE I THINK BUT I'M HAVING PROBLEMS USING IT. i DON'T MEAN TO SOUND DUMB. iPOSTED A QUESTION BUT DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GET A RESPONSE

[ancientmariner]

If I recall correctly you have to become a member (doesn't cost anything), and it takes some time for the owner to approve you, so I don't know if you really did post something....but normally you just go to the website and click messages (on the left side) to read, and you can reply to them, and if you want to post new, there's a Post option just below the Messages option. I'd wait a day or 2 to get approved

[hashi]

Icalled my doc office to get results of chest xray and of course guess who tol me they were normal. I' am so god damn sick and tired of that woman. Who made her my doctor. Imade an appoinment for Thursday to get my blood test results. She said yes we have your result and immediately said then give me an appoinment with my doctor. I see the pschycologist tommorrow and I have to talk to him about it. This is all giving me alot of anxiety(HER). And hopefully I can get some satisfaction fromhime and not be undermedicated or overmedicated. I actually feel okay and my temp. is staying on average above 98.0. Its just the anxiety that getting to me. I'm already on clonazapam and was on xanax for 18 years. Maybe I just need a slight increase til I get over this slump because I've had no problem with anxiety for years til this last month because of all this mess with my doc and his darling wife.HERE GOES NOTHING!!!!!!!

[hashi]

Hi! It's been awhile. I wnet to see the phsychologist and he actually made me feel better. Cost me $100.00, should have, something my doc forgot to tell me. Any way he says I have to start being more firm with doc's wife. Anything i need or have to ask will go directly to my doc. I got an opinion from my naturopathic docs collegue about the situation. She couldn't believe I haven't had any tests done since April. She told me to go to my doc and demand a thyroid panel. That's exactly what I did, but you know what I got,vitamin B12,TSH, estrogen, progesterone,FSH,LH,hemoglobin,TG, and TPO. Some thyroid panel eh. What a dic, not a doc. The results from my cortisol blood tests, I had done a week before these werecortisol a.m. 438,reference range is 140-690 and the cortisol p.m. was 252 reference range is 70-415. The results from my so called thyroid panel was, vitamin B12 335  range is 148-1500
tsh was 1.18, range is .6-6.0
estrogen is 158.46  range for postmenopausal is <100-150
progesterone is 2.4, range is for postmenopausal is <.6-2.6
FSH is 105.1   range is 20-138
LH is 65.8  range is 15-62
Anti-Thyroglobulin is 26   Range is <60 should be considered normal. That level was only 7 in April. My naturopathic doc says he can give me something to slow it down some.
Anti-thyroperoxidase is 62   range is <60 It says H which is High. It went down 1 since April.  My estrogen in April was 273.01 and my progesterone was 12.7. My doc says to me that maybe these levels are low that they are causing my anxiety and mild depression, so he wanted me to go on a birth control pill, but I brought them home and are not going to take them. Estrogen can screw your thyroid up more, can't it. Apparently so can my propranalol which I decreased 10 mg.  I'm going to see the naturopathic doc on Tuesday to see what he has to say about all this. If I feel confident with him I am going to quit seeing my doc. It will cost me money, but isn't my health worth going broke, and keeping my sanity. Anyway, thanks for listening to me ramble on again. Later